/k/ Literature for High Schoolers

Book: Mein Kampf
Film: The Greatest Story Never Told

>>33803717
>without getting fired
A degree of subtlety is necessary.

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>>33803717
I used to know that kid when I was in school.

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>>33803866
>the hunger games
That's soooo 2008.

No country for old men?
Sure as hell makes me wanna stay armed. And cormac mcarthy wont get you fired.

>>33803503
jeremiah johnson, the patriot, the wind that shook the barley, that one movie about jews hinding innawoods during ww2, and then finally the way of the gun when you decide you want to be fired.

book wise starship troopers would be a good choice.

Lit was the only class I enjoyed in highschool. My teacher personally knew Ken Kesey. Show them To Kill a Mockingbird. Sometimes you need a rifle in case you gotta save the kids from crazy doggos. Or to save the doggos from ATF

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A Roadside Picnic

Starship Troopers! It's a incredibly easy book to pick up. Really difficult for someone to fail tests and quizzes on...

>>33803503
make sure the fuckers actually pay attention and dont go on their phones the entire time
no point in showing a movie if your class doesnt care about it

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>>33803503
Night Watch by Terry Pratchett is actually pretty pro gun and the main villian is a gungrabber(swordgrabber?).
There is actually a passage in the book that explains how retarded it is to ban weapons to reduce crime and how it only served to make law abiding citizens into victims and paper criminals over night to the benefit of a draconian regime and robbers.

>>33803926

"jew hiding innawoods during ww2"

That's Defiance I think, great movie. Should effortlessly get your point across.

>inb4 "just because we needed them then, doesn't mean we need them now"

maybe show them some Vice News (I know, I know, hold on) DISPATCHES (where they don't fucking talk and just so footage) of the shit in Ukraine from just a few years ago. Ask what your students would do if we were ever invaded.

>>33804065
>>just because we needed the, then, doesn't mean we need them now

As a Historian these statements have always made me want to kill myself

>>33804052
>Night Watch
Nice

>>33803503
Red Dawn (the older one with Charlie Sheen) would be a good movie about the importance of why civilians should be armed, and it also represents the fears of the Cold War

>propaganda is ok when it furthers MY agenda

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>>33804113
And your point is...?

Starship Troopers the book. If the school gets suspicious then show the movie. They are night and day different so you can gtfo from facist indoctrination to something else really quick.

>>33804094

Red Dawn 1984 was originally inspired by Lord of the Flies. Most of that was lost in rewrites, but I think you could make a case for the literary connection to justify showing it.

>>33804094
Oh shit, I forgot The Hunt for Red October if you want to get a Cold War theme going

>>33804147
>If the school gets suspicious

why would the school give a shit?

>>33804113
Suck a dick you nigger faggot leftists have complete control of the schools.

>>33804174

This, in my 12th Grade AP English class the teacher assigned Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged and nobody complained. The school was pretty lefty too.

>>33803503

>Alas, Babylon

It's about the formation of a post-nuclear holocaust society in rural Florida during the cold war. It's fairly educational, and has scenes where the possession of firearms was necessary for the survival of the community.

>>33803503
starship troopers or the moon is a harsh mistress

>>33804191

our english teacher made us read pillars of the earth with the excuse of it being introspective of how life was in the middle ages, yet most of the book was just raunchy sex scenes and rape.

the school doesn't give a fuck unless you're having kids read mein kamph.

>>33803503
Turner diaries

My 12th grade English teacher was a pretty bro tier lesbian who was even head of our schools LGBT club and she never tried to push a liberal agenda on us. Which is pretty astonishing considering we were one of th top 30 high schools in Connecticut, which should scream liberal.
Shit, the only liberal teacher we had was one of the history teachers.

>>33804262
This, We watched an old movie version of Macbeth which blatantly shows a handmaiden getting raped in the background of a scene after you see the penis little boy who is most certainly aged before puberty for about 3 minutes

>>33803503
The Things They Carried was assigned to us either Junior or Senior year.

>>33804113
yes it is

>>33803503

First teach them other ways of how people are more likely to die from. Like the people that died from radiation poisoning, that photo of that Japanese dude that fucking lost his skin and shit. You probably don't need to show the photo but still make the point there's more horrible ways to die other than a firearm. Poisonous spiders, cars, trucks, explosions, fire, carbon dioxide/monoxide poisoning.

>>33804350
I read that as a freshman in college; great novel.

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Any of the WW2 resistance books or movies. Time life did a series years back but they might be e-books now.

Movies
Defiance
Anthropoid

>>33803503
Instead of reading, propose a question:
>Who should be allowed to have firearms?
When you get police, remind them what BLM is about. Ask them how they can say police are responsible gun owners then vilify them the moment they use the guns.

>>33804454
You could even include Bill maudlin stuff in your ww2 lessons. "Up front" and "Back home" show another side of the war. Not news real rosy but still humorous.

>>33803503
Star wars. Its really just a story about good vs evil. Good needs to be armed to defend all of creation from evil. Just like real life.

>>33804204
I haven't read the book, but apparently the town that the one in the book was based off of, Mount Dora, actually built a huge bomb shelter which ended up being the largest privately owned bomb shelter in the US. More info: http://www.abandonedfl.com/the-mount-dora-catacombs/

>>33803866
Not a bad idea. Haven't read the books but I've seen the movies and when Katniss and Peta hide their bow and arrows might make a good entry point into what happens when a government disarms it's citizens, or asking the kids where the Commander Baylor and the other guns came from you see the rebels holding since they don't look like the guns District 13 or the Capitol issues. Might ask the kids at the end, what was the difference between Coin and Snow?

>>33803956
hell make them cry. show them old yeller.

>>33804616
Then they'll need a safe space everytime the see a gun.

The kids these days just aren't equipped.

>Tfw I saw that shit when I was 5.

>>33804640
>The kids these days just aren't equipped.
unlike us redpilled ubermensches, obviously.

stop trying to act like you're any different than the kids growing up these days, its fuckin cringy. you're stereotyping an entire generation based off the crap you see on 4chan.

>>33803920
High school students cannot handle McCarthy. They'll be dropping like flies on Facebook Live. I mean, I could, but I'm a wierdo that lives alone in a cabin innamountains

>>33804653
I've met enough of them to know the high schoolers now are probably a lost cause.
Just like most of the twenty something's seem to either monumentally stupid or so lazy they're next to worthless.

>>33804616
That was hard to watch the first time.

>>33804262
Why does everybody only remember the sex (consensual and otherwise) in this fuckhuge novel? There's some cool battle scenes and tons of architectural tidbits. Also, Follett's "Jackdaws" would be good for OP.

>>33804703
Key to Rebecca is good too.

>>33804720
Ain't yet read that one, just Pillars and Jackdaws after I found them in the trash at work. Quick synopsis, please?

>>33804720
Can I get a quick rundown plz?

>>33803503
Yeah OP, assign them Ken Follett's 'Jackdaws" No lefty will be able to resist the prospect of female resistance fighters killing litteral NAZIs in occupied France.

>>33804483
That would just make most of them think we should disarm the police too.

>>33804694
All kids are retarded, they grow up. Some of them grow out of it, some don't. It's every generation.

>>33804174
The book and the movie are night and day on their tone towards Fascist/Military Rule.
The book takes a much more serious tone to it. In the moive(s) its a laughable sidenote.

>>33804963
So what do the police do if a criminal is armed? How many people have to die before we shoot back?

There was a book they gave me when I was a kid. Set in the civil war. Bout a kid wanting to be in the army. I can't remember the name of it but he'd follow them around. One of the guys killed a house full of civilians with a sword and they started to figure it out while they were raiding supplies. Then some german mercenies showed up and they were talking about what angle to fire at since they were shooting down hill. I think it was "The fighting ground" or something like that.

>>33804653
I'm only 26 and when I was in high school it was very common to have a shotgun in your truck rack in plain sight and we would be comparing pocket knives in class and there was never a problem

Now you get suspended if a bullet casing is spotted or if you make a finger gun. Things are very different

>>33805028
It's written in an entertaining way, when you're a kid you're not really tracking all that shit. The point is why there are amendments for not letting soldiers do that kind of shit. Also the other stuff like most kids wanna run away and join the army unless they're fucking weird or something.

For Whom The Bell Tolls by Hemingway

>>33805010

Call the feds for permission to send in a firearms unit?

>>33803503
Ender's Game. There is a reason it's on the Citadel's curriculum, but it's also a good book with young protagonists. All Quiet on the Western Front is just a given, and it has an anti-war message incorporated with it that is still relevant in the current context. As a curveball, look at Matterhorn. Its a novel by a marine about Vietnam.

>>33805157
>Ender's Game
Instant backlash from the kids. Because the author didn't like gay people 20 years ago.

>>33805163
Kids don't like gays either, why do you think they bully them until they kill themselves. The book has nothing to do with sexuality, stop being a fag.

>>33805163
Kek

>>33803503
movie: Heat
book: Culture of Critique

I read "the things they carried" in my high school class. about soldier life during the vietnam war but it's also /lit/

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>>33805134
"That bad man is SO going to regret killing my friends and family in 45 minutes when the firearms unit gets here!"

>>33803956
We read nothing but Toni Morrison in my AP lit class. Worst two semesters ever.

>no Jünger

>>33804289
That has a 50/50 chance
>50% chance they know nothing of Oklahoma bombing
>50% chance you get fired for promoting terrorism
id take the chance

>>33803503
With The Old Breed at Peleliu and Okinowa.

>>33804731
who the hell throws a book in the trash?

just donate them to a library for fucks sake.

those goddamn philestines.

>>33803956
Anybody else here lucky enough to get assigned the book called " the machine gunners"? Its about a bunch of war time british kids who compete with shrapnel collections during the battle of Britain. They find a shot sown HE111 and salvage the MG-15. Great story in grade 8ish.

>>33805195
Liberals are very eager not to read anything by a white male, especially one who was alive before the year 1990. So easy to discredit them with 'well their writing is anti-(issue)'.

>>33803503
There was a good book on JFK and PT 109 I remember from High school. It would be hard to criticize that choice by the school board.

Don't sink down to there level. It's not worth it, indoctrinating children is fucking retarded and I've seen teachers do it all the time.
If you really want to change kids mind, the second someone says something about guns being super scary and dangerous argue them on it. Embarrass them. Other kids will note and hopefully think the same. But once you argue never cut them off or not let them respond it's cancerous

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>>33805892
>don't indoctrinate them
>shame them
Shaming is a method of imposing social constraints on individuals. It isn't that far removed from direct indoctrination.

>>33805984
no, it's not the same. If you supposedly read all these kids a book for subtly showing them that guns aren't as scary as liberals say they which, to be honest, Isn't the scummiest thing to tell kids. Isn't school just forcing kids to repeat facts indoctrination too. Anyway if a kid wanted to bring up guns as an issue, no it's not indoctrination if you argue. When I say embarrass, I mean, fucking destroy them at the argument. No one can be mad at you for arguing a kid point that they bring up. I'm not saying he should call the kid a cunt. It's up to the kids really to decide which points they think are wrong or right, plus it will probably be more interesting and impressionable then a book.

>>33805788
FYI, your local library gives about %95 of their donated books to goodwill, who more times than not, throw them away.

Keep your books homie.

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>>33803503
Make them read WWI memoirs.

"Storm of Steel" and "Now it can be told" are good ones.

Truly horrifying shit.

>>33805788
It was a household moving business, so the amount of shit that was just thrown away by these rich assholes was disgusting, but I got a bunch of my stuff out of it.

>>33806068
Horrifying kids just makes them pussies.

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>search
>Nobody recommended the STALKER book series

>>33806673
>>33803970

>>33803503
>rural school
>my students martially ignorant and fearful of firearms
What the living fuck...?

>>33804703
Oh, this might be why "Hornet Flight" had a certain raunchiness to it.

>you would never fix an abandoned plane in a barn with your girl to escape the Germans

why live

>>33806714
Outer ring suburbs, most like.

>>33806738
Did they bang innaplane like in that '1941' movie?

>>33806714
Its more likely than you'd think.

>>33806969
Kek

Ruarks "something of value" or jan karski's "story of a secret state"

Both are beautifully violent and brutal

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>>33803503
>Rural
>Fear of

Pick one. Rural life is "european extreme" life and if those kids are being brainwashed by their parents or whatever then they never had to deal with ranching which involves life and death every day.

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>>33803503
>movies
I would go with "retro" ones like Magnum Force, The Taking of Pelham 123 and Terminator
also, do not forget good warfilms like Saving Privat Ryan, Longest Day and Letters from Iwo Jima
maybe try Robocop?
pic related

>reading
that's a pretty tough one
on one hand, you could go full retard with something like the Stalker and Halo books
on the other hand you could try out something like Diaries from WW1 & 2

maybe make an excurse to a range?

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>English teacher
>showing movies
Is this what education has become?

I read Rifles for Watie like three times in middle school/Jr high.
Red Badge of Courage
Storm of Steel
All Quiet on the Western Front
The Killer Angels
Master and Commander
Sharpe's series
Helmet for my Pillow
Matterhorn

Ender's Game is pretty /k/, not a lot about firearms in it though. And DO NOT watch the movie, it's garbage. The book is excellent

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>>33810681
>Is this what education has become?
Film is a storytelling medium, which falls under the domain of lit/language studies. Honestly, incorporating film into school curriculum requires teachers to demand more from their students than "watch this while I fuck around on my computer". My 11th grade teacher paused paused the movie every 10 minutes and asked us to analyze the filmmaking techniques used and explain the intentions of the director. It was fun and I got far more out of the movie than if we watched the entire feature in one sitting.

Shake hands with the devil: showing that the UN is absolutely incompetent and doesn't even allow their (purposefully underequiped) soldiers to actually protect locals. Hopefully, if more people realize this, it cannot happen again.

War is a racket: While mildly retarded it's historically very interesting and a very quick read. You can find it online for free too.

The following goes without saying:
Brave new world
1984
Animal Farm

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John Milius is pretty /k/

>>33803976
>Starship Troopers! It's a incredibly easy book to pick up.

And The Forever War series by Joe Haldeman, the Old Man's War series by Scalzi & Armor by John Steakley.

They are all very complementary. But they're really more to just recommend to kids, not really force them to read it...

But as far as Heinlein goes, The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress is a better novel than Starship Troopers desu.

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>>33803503
Give them Storm of Steel, it's the only piece of WWI literature that I can think of that isn't a fabrication and/or some whiny British boi complaining about how combat hurt his fee-fees.

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>>33810729
>1984
>A book from an author who is on record saying everything he's written is in support of socialism.

No.

>>33810806
>No.

As if that's the only possible thing you can take away from 1984... :s

>>33810831
As far as anti-totalitarian literature books go there are plenty that get the message across better than 1984.

>>33803717
>The Greatest Story Never Told
>the imdb description actually says redpill

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this

>>33803503
Book:The turner diaries
Movie:some columbine documentary

>>33810651
The problem with Magnum Force is it makes the cops who are killing criminals into the "bad guys". It was a overcompensation for the criticism of Dirty Harry.

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The book is super expensive though.

>>33804720
Eye of the Needle would be a good choice

>>33803503
Make a debate about gun laws and tell your students to write two texts: One defending the right to own a gun and the other against it.
Also, you should show quotes from Marx and George Washington about guns.
Something like that happened in my school. I was really surprised to find out that Pinochet, Thatcher and Reagan were gun-grabbers and how the first anti-gun law in my country was written by the dictator sponsored by the US. In the early 1960's, before the dictatorship, we had people walking with MP-40's in the street and politicians drawing out revolvers during debates.

>>33806072
I worked at a recycling centre for a while. You wouldn't believe the amount of great books I got from there. People throw everything out.

>>33810708
The book hasn't aged well.

>>33803503
What books are you reading that have anything to do with firearms?

>>33811762
Speaking of propaganda.

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>>33803503
Lolita.

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The movie Stalingrad from 1993 is a good pick for showing the Krauts struggle during that battle and a few good scenes to make them squirm.

>>33811844
What country are you from ?

>>33803503
tha forever war

>>33803503
Book wise? 1984 and Animal Farm as starters. While not weapons heavy, they put down a good amount of ideological base for you to use.

And make them read it. In depth 5 point quiz every two chapters or some shit. The political points don't have the same hit over sparknotes

>>33810708
The movie wasn't that bad, about as faithful an adaptation as could be expected. No where near as bad as World War Z's movie adaptation.

>>33803976
This would be a great book to have them read, literally my all time favorite book. I need to get more Halderman to read famalam, got me feeling nostalgic and shit

>>33803970
This. Also made into a very well regarded film.

>>33803503
I would say some Gary Paulsen books like The Rifle, but those are more for middle schoolers.

>>33804664
>High school students cannot handle McCarthy.

why not? I read McCarthy in HS (for fun, not for class, but still)

Also obligatory Orwell suggestion (just outright kill the students who think Big Brother is a good idea)

>>33804190
Considering the fact this is pretty much from what I've seen true, it makes me fearful for my nieces, they're still pretty fucking little but I love them like my own daughters and it pisses me off that they might be indoctrinated at school for the leftists and their bullshit agendas.

>>33811492
Is it possible to find this book anywhere?

>>33803503
There was a book I read a long ass time ago about someone sent to one of Stalin's gulags, I can't remember the title of it though but it pretty much shows as accurately as I can tell the result of living in a communist society so I'd say maybe that, it's not really /k/ but hopefully it'd wake their dumbasses up.

you could have them read The Road, and talk to them about the importance of prepping or even how guns can be used to protect the innocent against evils.

>>33813918
>>33803503
I also believe there's multiple books having to do with the Kaytn massacre which was when Polish military personnel, and civilians were taken to Kaytn and killed but there one that was from the perspective of one officer which was taken from excerpts from his journal before he was killed at Kaytn.

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>>33805195

>>33805569
2nd, was one of my favorites in history, great book about Vietnam

>>33803503
You're an English Lit teacher and you haven't already hit on Hemingway? Turn in your credentials.

Granted I can't stand Hemingway's insistence on taking 3 pages to say what could be said on 3 words, but still.

>>33804147
could you even show starship troopers in a school nowdays? wouldnt the titties would get you fired.

>>33814350
Probably not

>>33811504
he said /k/ not /pol/

>>33813918
day in the life of ivan denisovich?

>>33803503
The Turner Diary.

>>33813802
Amazon has a few copies in paperback

>>33804289
This. Even for people who abhor racism it is a good book, because it shows the importance of keeping the population armed.

>>33804157
If you're going down that road, have them read Heart of Darkness, then show them Apocalypse Now.

>>33804113
As long as your agenda isn't commie leftist pseudo bullshit, then your agenda is probably a good one.

>All Quiet on the Western Front
It's probably too long, though. I remember it being a thick book.

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>1984
That book changed my whole outlook how the world works


>A tree grows in brooklyn
It's about a teenage girl and her family (Irish American immigrants) growing up in NYC in the early 1900s, I believe its an autobiography

In one of the chapters, it details that there was a rapist was loose and everyone in the neighborhood was terrified.
The father bought a handgun illegally (yes, even back in the early 1900s, it was illegal to possess or carry pistols in NYC) just in case the rapist turns up against the family

One day the main character ran into the rapist in the basement of her apartment when disposing trash and her mother grabbed the handgun and fired a couple shots, killing the rapist
When the police came, they told the father they were supposed to arrest him for firearm possession, but they decided to look the other way because they stopped the rapist dead

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Seriously guys? This movie is pure propaganda for our side. If you don't wanna do the film version, the book isn't bad either.

tl;dr leftist urban cuck gets on the wrong side of a home invasion, buys a gun, carries illegally and starts cleaning up the neighborhood.

>>33815504
It was a few years ago when I read it but it sounds about right.
>>33815653
Oh alright sounds good.

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>>33813724
Because a lot of them are pussies and just will revolt about reading Blood Meridian and possibly The Road. They'll be bored to tears by anything but No Country, but it's hard to get into McCarthy because of the way he writes. This is most hs students, not me, pic related is some of my collection

>>33816552
Love this movie.

>>33812739
Starship troopers is Heinlein. Haldeman is forever war

>>33804664
We were taught "All the Pretty Horses" in our junior year.

>>33803503
>What /k/ books/films could I expose my students to without getting fired?
I think your best choice from an exposure to good literature and political CYA revolves around the usual suspects as far as realistic depictions of conflict. You know, actual historical and novelized works on conflict. Let the actual exposure to what that mindset and history do the work for you:
>Anything Stephen Ambrose, but especially Band of Brothers because of the accompanying mini-series
>Any of the great combat memiors: Helmet for my Pillow, With the Old Breed, If I Die in a Combat Zone (box me up and ship me home), Black Edelweiss, Quartered Safe Out Here, etc. etc. Some of the more recent and excellent combat memoirs from the GWOT or Desert Storm might be more exciting/relatable to your students.
>The classic combat fiction works are also unobjectionable and excellent, things like All Quiet on the Western Front, or the higher-end science fiction war classics with some meat on them (Starship Troopers, Armor, things with some actual socio-political commentary are more suited for classroom consumption I would think), or even working from an overview of how combat works standpoint something like Red Storm Rising might (MIGHT) be a good choice

CONT

>>33803503
>>33817135
>Any of the great, meticulously accurate historical fiction revolving around combat: Sharpe's series, Aubrey-Maturin series, Michael Shaara's civil war stuff, etc.
>Any of the excellent historical fiction revolving around pioneers and exploration, for instance Eckert's Frontiersman series is an incredible read, based somewhat closely on actual historical accounts and above all are tales of self reliance, determination and people fighting for their rights and property against all comers (red or white).
>There's a lot of higher class Noir fiction out there, and Noir in general is a good entry point for firearms education, as it revolves around using your wits, situational awareness and planning first and foremost but also being self reliant and able to protect yourself. Cop stories can be similar in tone as well.

At the end of the day, it's not about instilling a love of firearms or the 2A. It's about getting the kids interested in self-reliance, in taking whatever measure they feel appropriate to be responsible for their own safety and exposing them to CAN DO type narratives that make them want to explore a wider world. The folks that get into firearms because they fetishize the weapons themselves without the accompanying attitudes of self-reliance and self-education are almost always the least stable and useful to the community, not to mention the least relatable to society at large, I find. If your interest is to give the kids some meat to chew on which might enhance their lives overall, I say expose them to the stories of folks who got shit done and took care of their own no matter what.

>>33804604
Give them an assignment to describe things in the book that each part of the Bill of Rights is meant to protect against. Honestly, one could give a reasonable answer to all 10. 9 and 10 kind of go hand in hand on that, so maybe just group them together.

You could even go so far as to make a sheet with each amendment and a blank space for answers.

You aren't making the assignment exclusively about the 2nd Amendment, so there's plausible deniability if anyone tries to whine about it. Yet you are still making them think critically about why the 2nd Amendment exists.

>>33812102
^^this. gotta start grooming them now.

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>>33817346

>>33804235
Star ship troopers is a good book, could relate it to physiologic hardships then maybe read the things they carried, to tie the two plots together.

>>33803866
>>33804604
>>33817306
As an avid reader (and one who's grateful to the Hunger Games for getting my nieces into serious reading habits), I have to question the usefulness of a reading series quite THAT light in the classroom. You could do just as well with something like a combination of 1984 and Animal Farm or other more classic choices which are slightly denser and more suited to stretching capabilities.

The Hunger Games seems more suited to summer reading lists, with required reports asking detailed questions about a citizen's responsibilities and rights, plus things like self-reliance and self-determination.

>>33817422
>Star ship troopers is a good book, could relate it to physiologic hardships
But the central question socio-political of Starship Troopers revolves around a citizen's responsibility to the state, and the concept of how useful a person needs to be to his/her country to be considered worthy of things like voting rights or property ownership. It is a very interesting question and one ripe for classroom discussion, but perhaps not the best starting point for cultivating a respect for the traditional American legal and social values. After all, our system is based on unalienable basic rights but also personal responsibility for success.

>>33817468

It's been a while, but didn't government service only grant you voting rights? I seem to recall both citizens and civilians had guaranteed civil rights that extended to most things, citizens just had more.

>>33817508
Different anon here. Everyone had basic human rights, but if you wanted to try to change the government, you had to earn it.

>>33817362
sorry you're fat and sexually fetishize food, Costanza, I like lg's.

>>33817533

Right. Which really doesn't even seem all that terribly oppressive... you want a stake in the government, prove it by actions.

>>33817508
>but didn't government service only grant you voting rights
I believe it was citizenship, which included voting rights, participation in anything but the most basic civil service jobs (can't be a political leader in any capacity without service) and a few other things. Non-citizens could own most types of property, etc. and had basic protections of some rights, but had zero say in the direction and execution of their own government (which the founders of the US political system would argue is a violation of every man's basic human rights).

In many ways, he was advocating for something very similar to the legal structure of outlying Roman provinces. His central premise revolved around the necessity of a person to first prove themselves useful to the state to enjoy the full rights and responsibilities of citizenship. It's an exploration of what the basic mix of Rights and Responsibilities are appropriate between a people and their government.

Now, this is an excellent concept for discussion at the later levels of a civics, literature or history class, especially if you're prepared with good historical examples of varying degrees of implementation of these policies to compare and contrast. However, it seems as an introduction to the basic values, it might get confusing.

>>33813918
Gulag Archipelago?

>>33817573

Eh, the framers of the US Constitution also originally wanted you to own land before you could vote. Heinlein substitutes that for kowtowing to the state, which anyone can do.

Also there is some throwback to Aristotle and classical Greek government there re: the idea of a polity versus a democracy. Protip, Aristotle thought democracy was a bad thing.

>>33817593
That was about Lenin's gulags if I remember

Book: Turner Diaries
Movie: Birth of a Nation

>>33804113
>trying to teach kids about the constitution
>"agenda"
At least they're trying to teach correct information

Fuck off commie

>>33817533
>>33817568
Not to quibble, but that very lack of participation in voting and in political participation was one of the very reasons behind the popularity and success of the American revolution, and a founding principle of our country revolves around universal participation and suffrage as a basic right (even if it took a while to get the actual practice right).

In theory it sounds fantastic: only those who show themselves to be dedicated and useful to the people as a whole get a say in the direction of a nation. However, in practice it becomes a system anywhere from outright Feudal Serfdom to the very governing issues on taxation, military privileges and lack of self-determination which sparked the US and many other revolutions over the years.

The question is always WHAT do we base this test of worthiness on? Military service? Land ownership? Nobility/social status? Etc. There are significant and serious pitfalls to each.

>>33817611
>the framers of the US Constitution also originally wanted you to own land before you could vote
Only a few. And again, this country is based not on what some or even most of the Founding Fathers wanted, but what they ENACTED. It's a big and very important difference.

>Aristotle thought democracy was a bad thing.
Which is part of why the US is not a pure democracy. The checks and balances are all meant to target and limit specific pitfalls of past types of government. For instance, the Electoral College is a direct response to one of the weaknesses of a pure democracy with universal suffrage: susceptibility to demagoguery.

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>>33817135
>>33817146
Second both the book recommendations and overall approach. It's how I try to teach my son, anyway. Show, don't tell and all that.

>>33817671
>the Electoral College is a direct response to one of the weaknesses of a pure democracy with universal suffrage: susceptibility to demagoguery
Which, thanks to Reynolds vs Sims, is exactly what we're stuck with.

>>33817748
Has nothing to do with it.

The recent weakness exposed in the electoral college as a protection against demagoguery revolves around the Founding Father's inability to predict the wide, sweeping social and information flow changes brought on by mass communication and especially mass media through the internet and television. The idea that no one demagogue (or even external agent/actor) can equally influence all areas and regions of our huge country is, after all, now false.

>>33817671

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but wasn't the landowning provision for voting rights only done away with in the 1830s? That was the law in most states for decades, and when Andrew Jackson began harping on it as a presidential campaign issue there was much wailing and rending of garments about how it would destroy the United States electorate by allowing any non-slave to vote.

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I remember enjoying this during high school. Dramatized accounts of german tank aces.

>>33803503
rainbow six by tom clancy. its about swat teams. other tom clancy books are good but they're more about military stuff

>>33817785
The fact that every state in the Union lacks a senate where the little counties can call the big urban counties on their bullshit has EVERYTHING to do with it, bub. Christ! Imagine what would happen if we had two Houses and no Senate. that's what we've been stuck with at the local level since the 60's.

>>33804086
Look, you don't NEED shelter and aqueducts. It's 2015, get with the program. Ugh, I can't even drink right now.

>>33817790
>That was the law in most states for decades
Right. But never Federal law, and the contention over getting rid of those provisions revolved around state's rights and protection of Southern business practices. I didn't say we got it perfect off the bat and I did note it took us quite some time to get it right.

One of the early and large mistakes in the balance of power between Federal and state's rights was leaving all voting rights legislation with the states - which is to say each individual state dictated who could vote for not only local and state but federal office. This was meant (in another example of "inalienable human right" meets "practical application") as a check and balance against another overly centralized and tyrannical government plus protection against demagoguery, but it became a way for tyranny to be distributed and enacted at the state level rather than federal. The basic hypocrisy of our central concept within the Declaration of Independence and the concept of voting restrictions is what ultimately doomed all voting restrictions. A government cannot be founded on the principles of inalienable human rights enforced by a government for the people, by the people and then restrict which people have a voice in said government, after all. The only way that works is if property owners are somehow the only actual, whole human beings in legal terms, which obviously wouldn't last long as a legal fig leaf.

>>33817876
As always, you've completely missed the point of the conversation and gone off on a tangent to start ranting about whatever hobby horse you decided to ride to death today.

Go be a cancerous tripfag elsewhere.

>>33803962
>>33803899
Just because it's an old book and movie doesnt mean it doesnt display a good point about disarming the citizens.

>>33817876
>Imagine what would happen if we had two Houses and no Senate
It's called the 17th Amendment.

The way of the gun

>>33817748
>thinking ANY system by one man one vote could EVER be a fucking good idea
I knew tripfags were dumb, but jesus.

>>33817968
>It's called the 17th Amendment.
and yet it's the lesser of the two evils between state houses utterly corrupted by business monopolies and interests skullfucking federal policy and governance and possible exposure to demagoguery.

Also, the 17th amendment most certainly does NOT turn the Senate into a second House. The designed redress in power balance between smaller or less populated states and larger, more populated states remains. It only changed how those states chose their representatives for the senate.

>>33803717
second post best post

Pretty sure there are some decent books on the Battle of Athens, Tennessee.

>>33804616
I came here to post this

>>33817135
>>33817146
mah dark complexioned fellow.

No other real options for a teacher. But there's also no reason you can't chose literature which both expands horizons AND advances the concepts of personal responsibility, self determination and personal protection.

/thread

>>33804829
The story is loosely base on the life of the Nazi spy Johannes Eppler. Takes place in Egypt in WW2

>>33804731
Eye of the needle is a good ken follet book too.