I ended up in a discussion with a coworker on the yay or nay

>>33802017
Just give him some stats and if he gives you the "muh cherrypicked, muh bias" shut just tell him the truth: "ayy lmao it's better than what you have which is FUCKING NOTHING"

>>33802017
I'd start with getting the source for his statistics.

$20 says that it's including suicide as as "gun violence," meaning that all his statistics say is that if someone has access to a gun and wants to commit suicide, they're not going to fuck around with an oven or something.

>>33802042
He spouted some shit about having a gun making a person "act like they're invincible instead of defusing the situation". Those were his actual words.

But yeah i'm guessing that statistic included all gun-related violence, suicide included

>>33802017
That comes from Kellerman, and is analyzed here:

https://www.gunowners.org/sk0701.htm

>In retrospect, Kates found, it was not the ownership of firearms that put these victims at high risk. Rather, it was the victim's "high-risk life-styles [such as criminal associations] that caused them to own guns at higher rates than the members of the supposedly comparable control group."(5)

>>33802017
You are much more likely to fall victim to gun violence if you have a gun in the home

Just like you are much more likely to drown if you have a pool in the home

>>33802017
>he claimed that you are X% (can't remember exact percentage he said but it sounded way too high) more likely to be the victim of a violent crime if you have a gun in your house compared to if you don't have one.
this is straight out of the book on jewish argumentative tactics.

the tactic your coworker was using was simple statistical manipulation. of course someone with a gun is more likely to be shot than someone who doesn't have a gun. but do you know where that number comes from? hint: it's the niggers.

it's always the niggers. you could airdrop a small army's worth of guns onto some obscure part of ireland and their crime rate would not go up, where dropping a crate of hipoints onto a inner city blacks school would result in a 5,000% increase in gun crime rates.

just turn this around on him. he's already made your argument for you.

>>33802017
He's referencing a decades old statistic that's literally used as an example in textbooks about how to lie with statistics.

Longer post to come breaking it down.

>>33802070

>He spouted some shit about having a gun making a person "act like they're invincible instead of defusing the situation".

Your coworker is one of those people convinced that citizens of a developed nation are somehow magically incapable of committing acts of incredible brutality with little regard for human life.

>>33802017
suicide and domestic violence being counted/bullshit

firearms are literally the safest way to defend yourself (/r/ing that graph of self defense methods vs injury)

also
>criminal shoots you with gun in your house
>gun in house
>gun in house increases your chances of being killed by a gun

something like 6 actual 0-3 year old children die a year from ND according to the CDC and most "child gun death" in the aggregate statistic is from 16-21 year old "youths" killing each other via gang violence.

>>33802281
problems with study:

1. used a non representative sample group.

The study in question was only of homicide victims in a few counties in relatively urban areas. Sample size is small and so unlike your typical american as to make any conclusions drawn from it almost assuredly completely inapplicable.

2. Study completely disregards classical rules regarding causation.

The study in question found that homicide victims were significantly more likely to possess a firearm in the home than the average american(by about 3x IIRC). from this information the authors concluded that owning a firearm makes a person 3x more likely(again iirc) to be the victim of a homicide than a non gun owner. You literally can't make this shit up. they completely disregard the fact that these people may have owned firearms because they lived a dangerous lifestyle(drugs/gangs) or may have had cause to fear for their lives.

3. study ignores other findings that they had.

The study in question also found that these people were even more likely to have alcohol, drugs, or a history of familial violence than they were to possess firearms. funny, the authors chose to focus on only one of these findings though. almost like they had an agenda or something.

>>33802157

Came here to say exactly that. Correlation is not causation. In this case, the causal direction is backwards: people who believe that they're at risk for violence are more likely to acquire the means to defend themselves.

Also as >>33802346 points out, appropriate controls were excluded intentionally to magnify the apparent effects.

Finally, most of the murders in America are committed in a handful of counties... nearly all of which have gun control.

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>>33802017
No private person should be allowed to own weapons of any kind, instead all public officials and employees of the federal government should be armed and allowed the use of lethal force.

>>33802346
http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.fourexamples.asp#times

heres the source for that. Also the justfacts page about gun control is the best sourced and supported one i've ever seen on the subject. Should contain everything you need to reeducate your coworker and destroy any fallacious arguments hes likely to chuck your way.

>>33802017
Correlation does not equal causation. This shit is real basic.

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>>33802017
>more likely to be the victim of a violent crime if you have niggers in your house

Show him this.

>>33802017
it's a bastardization of a bastardization of a bastardization of a 'study' that basically says people who shoot themselves have a gun.

>>33802268
indeed, dig through the FBI crime stats. they break it down by race.

>>33802300

Stanford Prison Experiment, nuf said.

>you're X% more likely to drown if you own a pool