Why isn't 7.62 tokarev more popular?

And what sorts of armored targets would consumers and military personnel be shooting at with a handgun?

It's long.

so double stack pistol grips are xbox huge.

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Because its went up in price since Obamas ban on russian everything. Costs the same as .45acp now. If it were equally or lower priced than 9mm it would be different.

Personally I love the caliber. It is probably one of the most comfortable calibers that I shoot (I also run a 45, 40, 9mm, 380, and .22lr) and recently used it for a combat shooting course. amazed the fuck out of people the punch it has.

>>33796582
>No single stack exdendo clibs for TT33
It's like you want to get laughed at

>>33796581
Stil isn't that a nice feature using just normal non AP ammo?
And seriously? This the prime example of a military cartridge.
The military would encounter armored targets or targets beind cover.

>>33796582
>>33796637
but it wouldn't be much fatter than a fucking Buhretuh M9

>>33796626
Wasn't really popular before him.
And fuck Obama.
Fucking prick.
Read that you used to be able to get this ammo super super cheap, like 10 or 15 cents a round for com block surplus.

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>>33796664
Not popular, but also not under fire for being red commie.

I'd like to get one of those PPS43

>>33796566
I personally love 7.62 x 25

I wish their were a better selection of guns that fire the cartridge, as I get sick of shooting my Tokarev. Not to mention I wish it wasn't as much money as it is for the brass stuff.

I also reload for it as well so I give it more oomf that it has factory. Shit will punch through steel plates (not ar-500 steel) I have set up.

>>33796651
>The military would encounter armored targets or targets beind cover.

and they shoot at them with rifles and AP ammunition if needed, not handguns

I like it too. I have lots of fun with my CZ52, it knocks down steel with authority.

Oddly enough I find that PPU hollow points are often the same price as their regular ball ammo. I buy it whenever I'm able.

>>33796566
DESU it's my favorite cartridge. the end of cheap 7.62x25 and complete lack of new platforms and loadings have kinda consigned it to the back of peoples minds for the time being though.

>>33796732
>I'd like to get one of those PPS43

It's a fun little pistol.

Amusingly enough I'm watching the Nic Cage movie Rage where they think his daughter got killed by Russians just because they pulled a Tok round out of her body.

I guess only Russians use that round.

>>33796566
its because 7.62 tok was created out of wartime necessity and dumped the second better things were available.
the reason its 7.62 is not because russia wanted a 30 cal smg/pistol cartridge. its because all the barrel manufacturers were set up for 7.62x54r just cut that m91/30 in half and bam enough for 2 barrels.
when they had enough breathing room to actually design a pistol cartridge they went with 9x18 mak. likewise the smg role was replaced with 7.62x39.

>>33796566
Because fuck slavaboos thats why.

>>33797028
>when they had enough breathing room to actually design a pistol cartridge they went with 9x18 mak

dumbass move

9x18 is shit, 7.62x25 is good

>>33797093
9x18 is good enough for what you use a pistol for

>>33796566
heck of a shotgun shell

>>33797105
No it's not, 9x18 isn't even good enough for quality hollow points, it's not fast enough

>>33797028
>early 1930s russia
>wartime necessity
Lol get the fuck outta here. The 33 in tt-33 stand for the year it was adopted 1933.

>>33797028
It owes its existence more to how early commies liked the c96. Tok rounds were originally identical but got loaded hotter over time.

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>>33797125

>>33796581
probably the other guy wearing armor trying to shoot you, not that it's remotely relevant or ever will be unless 3rd world shithole militias and proxy warfighters ever conveniently get a box full of plate carriers

for the consumer? car doors, regular doors, cops i guess, don't just pretend there isnt ever a situation where self defense against a cop isnt a thing

don't get me wrong it's an absolutely obsolete cartridge for general or military use in 2017, but it's a meme round with statistics you can't really argue against for the sake of the thread

>>33797164
They actually are a weaker version of the Mauser cartridge.
Limited amounts of hotter SMG ammo were made but most hot ammo rumours come from degraded powder leading to higher pressures in surplus ammo.

>>33797209
This is not correct. Modern tok rounds are hotter. Do not fire tok ammo from your c96.

http://askmisterscience.com/1896mauserbackup/ammo.htm

>>33797209
Did you make this entire paragraph up?

>>33796732
>$2300
how?

>>33796767
It would be great if there was a glock 21 conversion kit.
also if trump isn't a complete cuck perhaps we can get rid of the AP ammo ban and let In a bunch of surplus 7.62 tokarev ammo, most of it was steel cored.

>>33797190
How is it obsolete? It's flat shooting an has great penetration ability.
We do encounter people with armor and at the very least we encounter Barriers.
Yeah I know that's what rifle are for but why not I've your pistol the same ability?
It even recoils a little less than 9mm.

>>33796566
I'd rather not have my life depend on inferior Russian designed shit.

>>33797767
LMAO inferior
7.62 tok is superior to 9mm in every single way. It's also better than the 357 sig and up until recently was a lot cheaper than both.>>33797767

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No companies in the US are making guns for it. Only modenish gun I know of is the Dominion Arms (Norinco) P762 which can't be imported to the US.

If manufacturers started making pistols with longer mag wells we might see stuff like 7.62 Tok and 5.7 become popular usable cartridges. It can't get popular when there's only 1 or 2 guns available (Tokarevs and CZ52 are all I can think of)

>>33797153
The 7.62x25 round was developed in 1930 for the tt30 and was developed as stated above for war time needs, but not during war time. Stalin himself was all about keeping caliber the same for simplicity of manufacturing. They churned out a bunch of 7.62 barrel and cut it/ machined it into all kinds of .30 caliber firearms

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>>33797856
Significantly smaller diameter and mass is the only reason it has such high velocity and its NOT better than .357 SIG.

>>33797767
It was copied from .30 Mauser.

>>33797598
>great penetration ability

Quantify this.

>>33799930
>literally copy pasted from wikipedia

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>>33800277
>FAKE NEWS

>>33797028
>when they had enough breathing room to actually design a pistol cartridge they went with 9x18 mak.
Wasn't it because folks could use their own captured weapons against them using the lower pressured 7.63x25 Mauser cartridge?

>>33797152
Hollow points weren't exactly the highest priority when 9x18 was designed

>>33796566
Because 9mm Luger is just as good, if not better, since few people ever fight armored attackers and a heavier bullet helps with barrier penetration and expansion with hollowpoints.

>>33796651
US Army uses NATO loadings of 9mm, which is hot as shit and penetrates well enough.
Then of course they have rifles, which is what they'd use 90% of all infantry engagements, and pistols almost never ever, because pistols just barely matter in army contexts, most GIs don't even carry them on duty.

>>33797152
They only use ball ammo so that's irrelevant as fuck.
The goal with the Makarov was a light and compact gun, and this it does fine.

>>33797190
.22LR can defeat a car door, shit's flimsy.

>>33797209
The Bulgarians used the cartridge exclusively in subguns and loaded it much hotter. That aside, you're wrong and it's too hot for a Mauser.

>>33797856
>slavaboo noises

>>33800343
Almost not relevant since 7.63mm was barely in use by then.

>>33797296
Look again
>$2900

>>33800763
>$2900
how?

>>33800277
>he still thinks it's 2004

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>>33796732

I wanted one back when classic had them, but waffled between 9 and 7.62tok. Wanted to go accurate and get the 7.62 but with price of ammo as it is, the 9 seemed like it would be a better option.

Before I could decide they ran out and now I haven't seen them in stock anywhere.

>>33796566
I'm not baiting or memeing here, but it seems clear to me why 9mm is a superior cartridge. A smaller bullet has less expansion potential in a hollow point, and less mass to punch deep into somebody or through barriers. Flat trajectory is nice, but of very limited value in a pistol. If you need AP there are much better modern options (plus 6.5 CBJ is basically 7.62 Tok of the future). I don't particularly like 9mm, but I like this cartridge even less from a practical standpoint.

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>>33800346
Doesn't that tell you something? That at the time the most powerful nation-states to ever exist were actively in the business of killing one another as fast as they could, they utterly ignored hollowpoints?

>b-b-buh muh Hog Kunvenshun...

Fuck out of here with that bullshit. You're telling me EVERY NATION ON THE FUCKING PLANET was more than happy to use EVERY FUCKING WEAPON EVER, including poison gas, flame throwers, and nuclear fucking bombs... but they oh-so-morally abstained from hollowpoints because of the fucking Hauge Convention? Bull. Shit.

Allow me to proffer an alternate theory, one that doesn't stink so much of bullshit: HOLLOWPOINTS ARE FUCKING USELESS.

You assholes have all had this shit drilled into your brains by slick salesmen for your entire lives, and have no idea how wrong and dumb it is. Even when your noses are held to cold hard facts like a puppy's face to a pisspuddle, you won't shed this idiocy.

God I'm glad I'm not you.
Hardball Master Race. Njoi wasting your money on "HUR MUH EXPANDIN AMMOEZ" nonsesne.

>>33801095
Your a fag. Then why does every hunter in the world use them.

>>33796566
PROTIP: if you reload you can form .223 brass into 7.62x25 tokarev brass.

>>33801143
If you can't tell the difference between a deer running away to bleed out and a crackhead trying to kill you and needing to die immediately, I don't really think there's anything I can say to you that would disabuse you of your stupidity.

So I will just point and laugh.

>>33796566

NATO ammo suppliers are allowed to manufacture Russkie calibers?

>>33796566
>flat shooting
no
>>33796566
>less recoil than 9mm
God no
>>33796566
>much better penetration
fucking lmao

>>33801095
>autism: the post

>>33801095
Pistol hollowpoints wasn't a viable idea until like the 70's or 80's because until then, people just thought "Well drilling them should be enough, right?" and wondered why they didn't work.

So how's that ghettoblaster you worked on?

>>33801201
Results of this is mixed.

>>33796678
>that grip
hnnnnngh

>>33796891
It had something that tied it to an execution, didn't it?
>muh striations

>>33801793
Knowledge evolves!

I machined a new ejector for the ghettoblaster. Will probably make a thread about it in a week or so.

>>33797856
>It's also better than the 357 sig
wew lad