Defending against body armor

Is it retarded that I'd carry a tokarev just to have an edge against soft body armor? Also who are these guys? The guy on the left looks like a bowie fan

>>33794556
I had a Tok, couldn't shoot it for shit and mine only had half-cock for a safety.

The pic is ISOF-Iraqi Special Operations Forces or the "Golden Division". The only remotely effective organization in the official Iraqi Army.

Shoot them in the face

>>33794635
Or the groin. Sure.

Pretend the advice is for my girlfriend who can't be relied upon to make such shots under pressure.

In retard terms:

Soft armor "catches" the bullet by being a surface that doesnt tear (kevlar)
Steel plates attempt to stop the bullet by being harder/more rigid than the bullet and bending to allow energy to dissipate
Ceramic body armor attempts to stop the bullet by being essentially compressed sand. When a bullet hits ceramics they will crumble and allow for reduced kinetic energy
Now lets get down to questions:
>>33794518
>I'm mostly concerned with being able to defeat soft armor
Use a rifle. If that isnt an option you need to add velocity and hardness to your projectile. +p solid copper (fort scott and some companies make this) will do very well against soft armor due to copper being fairly solid as far as legal bullet materials are concerned. A liberty defense civil defense/halo point round is a +p deep cavity JHP around 50 grains that travels quick with some middle of the road hardness so it also punches soft armor. As for rifles, generally any hunting or "military grade" round will punch a soft vest. Even shitty tula .223 will rek IIIA soft armor. Go fast or hard, but preferably both
>potentially cheaper (steel) rifle plates
This is going to basically be rifle calibers going decently quick. AR500 plates have a history of being punched by 20" rifles using m193 when shot upclose. If you cant use a 20" barrel with m193 you should go for a hotter round or a harder round.
>What brands and loads are going to be best suited for such a task at self defense ranges?
Hard
Fast
Pointy

Or shoot them pelvic girdle
>>33794556
>Is it retarded that I'd carry a tokarev just to have an edge against soft body armor?
Yes

>>33794635
>>33794599
That's the shooting drill SOF does.
Balls, belly, chest, face

Drop the enemy--- hurt the enemy---maybe hit the enemy's lung or heart or spin---- end the enemy

>>33794670
solid advice all around

>>33794518
>Soft Armor
Literally no handgun will defeat it. Unless reasons, if soft armor is involved it will be IIIA.

Any rifle caliber (inb4 hurr durr!!! .22LR) will defeat it.

>UHMWPE/Ceramics
No handgun caliber will defeat it.
For a single shot stop penetration, rifle will probably be impractical for any kind of hastily conceived defensive use. There are probably .308 AP loads, but lack of availability is a consideration. M61, M995 exist, but as to what they are actually capable of seems to be beyond the realm of common knowledge


Better luck spraying lower abdomen or head.

>>33794724
>Literally no handgun will defeat it. Unless reasons, if soft armor is involved it will be IIIA.
Retard alert

>>33794518
Theoretically speaking, purpose built AP handgun ammo is illegal. That being said, there is a brand of SD bullet that stands out from a geometric perspective for the job.

What you want for an AP round is a narrow or even sharp tip, high velocity, and preferably a material that is resistant to deformation. The best you're likely to do in 9mm is going to be hot loaded lehigh extreme defender unless you can get your hands on some older AP ammo that got imported before the ban. Not sure if you'll be able to get reliable penetration against even level IIa from a handgun though. definitely something you'll wanna test first.

The rifle will naturally handle most soft armor threats due to it's velocity. For hard armor, M855 is supposed to work better against AR500 than most normal loadings, but there's a real dirth of information on the subject of what if any loads can penetrate level 3 or higher body armor. Doubt you'll be able to get your hands on anything fancy like the army's newish m995 either.

Frankly im of the opinion that something like a brenneke slug with a tungsten carbide drill bit set in the middle of it would quite possibly do better against rifle plates than any commercially available 5.56, but i've yet to see somebody test that exact set up. if your curious about shotgun slug penetration, then the channel taoflodermaus has some tests of various home brewed designs against ar500. be warned though, a lot of them seem kinda half baked.

>>33794518
Illegally you ca make your own AP ammo.
You'd need your basic reloading supplies.
You can take a normal fmj bullet drill a hole in the back for the hardened steel core and place the steel core in and then deal with molten lead or was.
Might want to use cast bullets as you can put the cooled down cast bullet into the cast(this is just to keep the bullet still when you drill).
You can use 10/32 or 11/32 steel rods for this.
Buy some, cut to appropriate length, Sharpen the front and then you need to heat treat it.
This is pretty easy to do but like I said illegal.
If this for shtf you can just keep the ammo hidden somewhere or bury it in your hard using one of those burying kits for burying things but keeping them sealed.

Other than that there's +p+ solid copper ammo and also 7.62 tokarev and also some 50 grain 2000 fps 9mm jhp.

>>33794805
Somehow i forgot about some fairly pointed all copper designs like

>>33794670

mentioned. those would be good to look into as well.

>>33794805
>For hard armor, M855 is supposed to work better against AR500 than most normal loadings
No
>>33794814
>You can take a normal fmj bullet drill a hole in the back for the hardened steel core and place the steel core in and then deal with molten lead or was.
How 2 keyhole instantly

>>33794853
It won't key hole if you do it properly.
Just need to make sure everything is even and that the center of gravity didn't change too much.
Besides, if it starts to flip at 50 meters then you're good up to 50 meters, and that to me is handgun distance.

>>33794840
>>33794805
aye, yo, OP! feel free to blow me later because this caused me to do some googling around and i happenstanced across a channel that has a good few 9mm ammo tests against level 3A armor. Some commercial designs do indeed seem to work against it out of a full sized hand gun.

https://www.youtube.com/user/BuffmanLT1/search?query=9mm