MidEvil Weapons

Your local mall should have a Spencer's, they're likely to have what you're looking for.

>>33776005
Kult of Athena is a good start.
They do have a lot of low quality junk though. So word of advice, if it's under 300$ make damn sure it's not a "non functional replica" or other trash.

>>33776499
Checked and keked

Windlass is the best value.

>>33776005
>So /K/ I am kinda interested in collecting old MidEvil Weapons. So does any on shave any advice on where to start,and maybe some where I can get some pretty decently priced and decently made replicas?


Please don't but replicas and help in the destruction of western cultural heritage and history.

Save and buy one real antique, they are not as expensive as you think.

>>33776946
>Kult of Athena
>>33779600
>Windlass


Destroying the history of arms and armour in western culture one piece of crap sold to a teenager at a time.

>>33780925
you say that like it's important that water bottle warriors have top tier kit.

>>33776005
Only two spiky flails exist and the historical community still can't decide if they're a practical joke or not.

>>33776005
>MidEvil
Medieval

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>>33780957
I don't know, you could thresh a mean pile of barley with a spiked flail.

>>33776005
>any advice on where to start
yes, learn how to spell "medieval" correctly and not "MidEvil" you jumbo doofus

>>33780958
Thank you, Sir Daniel Fortesque.

>>33780957
>>>33780925 (You)you say that like it's important that water bottle warriors have top tier kit. >>33776005 (OP)Only two spiky flails exist and the historical community still can't decide if they're a practical joke or not.


They are not for waving around they are for preserving and studying

I own a genuine two ball fail. I have read the material on the internet and am not impressed as none of the material has the key to identifying the genuine article. They were in fact reasonable common in chateaux armouries in places like Brittany until the 1500s and were more a weaponing for provisioning drafted peasantry without weapons than anything else. They are an effective weapon (again this is linked to identifying why a real one is real) and the main reason that not many survive is There are at least three distinct regional forms the one in the OPs pic while junk is more akin to the two stranded one found in France. The northern European Scottish one has a shorter chain and larger ball and is not cast in the same way. Finally in eastern Europe the hammer and mace and wooden wheat threshing flail, they are not an east European weapon.

The manner in which the French weights is constructed is unique and particular and readily identifiable.

I for one will not help the US and Chinese based 'fakes' market by giving any detail.

They are however a brutally effective weapon.

1)The chain and corrosion
2)The wooden handle
3)Reuse of the iron as they were considered a cheap weapon

I thought about writing an article on them but then realised that doing so would merely help the shitloads that make and sell what are effectively fakes.

>>33780957
>the historical community still can't decide if they're a practical joke or not.

The anglo speaking youtube and amateur bloggers are not historians nor particularly expert in anything except reproduction shit..

>>33783178
>I have read the material on the internet and am not impressed as none of the material has the key to identifying the genuine article

That's because the vast majority of them, even in museums, are already fakes. Why are you certain the one you have is legitimate?

>>33783199
>Why are you certain the one you have is legitimate?

That is part of the key to their construction however metals crystallise with age. I have also discussed the item with state experts in France and they are not considered that uncommon there although an intact one is.

There are several keys to identifying genuinely ancient weapons which are becoming increasingly necessary due to the deluge of fakery and subsequent defarbing (faking up) of them, a simple example is that post 1950 metal has a different radioactive signature as furnaces us atmospheric oxygen that contains signatures of the atomic era.

There is much more that you can see under a microscope.

>>33783199
By the way as an interesting aside I have been told that some were actually seize and used and issued for trench raiding by the German imperial army in WW1

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Château de Castelnaud La Chapelle

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>>33776005
Yes, you will need to examine the different weapons and determine what is best for your chosen application:
Arming Sword
>One handed medieval sword of various designs used along with a shield, good for hacking at antifa protesters
Longsword
>Two handed weapon used with the advent of full plate, good for cleaving antifa protesters in half
Battleaxe
>Traditionally a single-bladed weapon, not the fantasy double headed axe seen in fiction. Good for chopping limbs off antifa protesters
Spear
>Long shafted weapon most effective in formation, great for piercing antifa protesters stomachs
Mace
>Flanged or spiked blunt weapon that crushes armored targets, perfect for cracking open antifa protesters skulls
Greatlance
>To be used on either horseback or on motorcycle, great for jousting with antifa protesters on their vintage bicycles
Trebuchet
>Siege weapon with counter weight system. Useful for destroying the homes and gender studies classrooms of antifa protesters

Please take care of your collection and check Kult of Athena for some great deals.

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>>33783579
>Please take care of your collection and check Kult of Athena for some great deals.

Please kys and stop promoting your products as they are an offense to civilisation and history


Pic related
"An original Imperial German WW1 Trench Fighting Mace Flail. This gruesome weapon was used during the latter stages of the First World War and was very effective during trench raids. The mace comprises a very heavy cast iron spiked ball which is attached by a chain to the turned wooden handle. Trench raiding was a major feature of trench warfare during World War I. The raids took the form of small scale surprise attacks on enemy positions."

The German ones typically have a crest and standardise Prussian unit marking branded on the butt of the wooden half

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>>33783484
Selection of clubs and a flail used on the Dolomites front with Italy in WW1. Note the flail.

>>33783661
What, is kult of athena shit tier repros? I was told they're alright for the price.

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>>33783922
To me all of these junk makers and their youtibe promoters are pimping rubbish.


If anyone doubts the effectiveness of the flail in combat have a look at this, It was manufactured for German troops in hand to hand trench warfare

"The specialized nature of trench warfare, as it developed during the First World War, spawned a variety of new weapons. Many of these, such as clubs and knives intended for close quarter fighting, recalled more primitive eras of warfare. This German club is a quite sophisticated example. The cuboid iron head is attached to the grip by a thick coil-spring. The museum's collections feature two further identical examples, indicating that this pattern was produced in some quantity. They appear to be the product of a German military workshop, rather than a commercial manufacturer."

(Imperial war museum)

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30003756

The spiked ball on chain or steel steel rope with a wooden handle is also common

>>33784021
>To me all of these junk makers and their youtibe promoters are pimping rubbish.
You realize that Kult of Athena is a merchant website that sells weapons from other manufacturers, right? Or is Albion rubbish? Is A&A rubbish? Are Hanwei-Tinkers rubbish?

Cool your fucking elitism, you're not impressing anyone on the internet.

>>33784169
>>To me all of these junk makers and their youtibe promoters are pimping rubbish.You realize that Kult of Athena is a merchant website that sells weapons from other manufacturers, right? Or is Albion rubbish? Is A&A rubbish? Are Hanwei-Tinkers rubbish?Cool your fucking elitism, you're not impressing anyone on the internet.


Yes. It is not elitism. It is simple preservation of history. The mass production of items like
for example

"This replica of a WW1 German Army Trench Knife has a blade of high carbon steel - it is stamped with replica makers marks and inspection stamps for authenticity."

German Trench Knife

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=USK302&name=German+Trench+Knife


Is not a 'reproduction' honestly stamped with the real makers name, it is a simple instrument of fraud designed to be passed off as an original.

While the feeding of criminality is one matter the actual destruction of the collection and preservation of historical artefacts effected by companies such as this flooding the world with fakes cannot be underestimated.

As regards
This
>>33784169
>Kult of Athena is a merchant website that sells weapons from other manufacturers, right? Or is Albion rubbish? Is A&A rubbish? Are Hanwei-Tinkers rubbish?


Any manufacture that produces 'reproductions' of antique items that are not clearly marked with the real manufacturers name and further that are marked with an historical makers name are utter scum.

Please do not support such companies. It seems clear to me that they promote themselves by sponsoring people who care little or the history of arms and promote their tat on YouTube and forums and I literally hate these companies.

Perhaps if you had met someone (as I have) who comes thinking that they have a piece of history only to be told by me that they have been ripped off with a piece of reproduction junk then you might understand.

Make no mistake many of these things are simple and not very well made forgeries.

>>33784169

Now here is the problem. We learn the truth about the pas by the artefacts of the past, and if in 200 years the entire stock of the western world heritage of arms and armour has been utterly flooded with shit and fakes then it will be as a subject ruined.

This has already effectively happened with 20th century Cossack swords for example which have been faked to such an extent that no one will even bother authenticating one as a real historical artefact anymore. Sad is it not?

So much history being destroyed by greedy immoral companies and stupid teenagers.

Get yourself a hatchet or hammer.

Time tested weapon.

>>33784313
>>33784368
Hahaha, wow.

Alright, in that case can you tell me where one might find a reproduction sword that meets your autistic standards? If Albion's museum line doesn't cut it, what does?

>>33784368

Cossack swords never went out of production. What real difference is there between one that was made in 1916 and one made in 2016 all else being equal?

>>33784389
>Alright, in that case can you tell me where one might find a reproduction sword that meets your autistic standards? If Albion's museum line doesn't cut it, what does?


@reproduction@

If such a thing was made as opposed to a forgery it would me marked by the manufacturer with their actual name. Then the buyer would know where it originated. As it stands you don't.

Real weapons certainly post regulation were proofed, quite a rigorous process that involved for example bending swords at what would be considered to a casual observer an alarming angle to establish they would return to true.

Inspectors marks which identified the individual inspector were applied.

Before this the seal of a maker was his word and in weapons this was of particular importance, as with goods containing precious metals the abuse of guild controlled and approved markings was considered a serious crime.

If you realised that you could own an original piece of history probably for the same money as some awful mass produced shit rom China would you not choose to do so instead of throwing your money at these companies?

>>33784409
Proof testing and the fact one was probably carried by a Cossack as the pages of history turned?

Or does shitting all over history not disturb you at all?

Have you never held a sword that was actually worn my a Napoleonic solider and pondered where it has been and what became of its owner and compare that to some pointless lump of metal from china?

>>33784437
The swords produced by Albion, A&A, Windlass, Hanwei, etc. are all marked with their own logos. They are not forgeries pretending to be original pieces. These are the kinds of makers KoA stocks, jesus christ. I'm not even into swords, but this kind of autistic stupidity can't be tolerated.

>>33784504
>I'm not even into swords, but this kind of autistic stupidity can't be tolerated.

No. You are not. yet you want to talk about them like you know or care. Perhaps you are the autistic one.

I can give innumerable examples of modern produced items being marked and advertised as marked as forgeries of old makers, complete with fake makers inscriptions and fake proof marks. Or no mark at all.

Explain this for example from your 'honest' seller


"This replica of a WW1 German Army Trench Knife has a blade of high carbon steel - it is stamped with replica makers marks and inspection stamps for authenticity."

German Trench Knife

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=USK302&name=German+Trench+Knife

>>33784547

More?

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=USS197&name=French+Musketeer+2nd+Company+Heavy+Cavalry+Sword

"Replicated from an original, the blade is etched on both sides with ‘’2nd Compaignie Des Mosquetaires Du Roy ‘’- which roughly translates to ‘’2nd Company of the Royal Musketeers’’. Included are makers marks, as well as forge signature along the spine of the blade."

Nasty piece of crap. There is no honesty there. It is a simple forgery with no real makers mark.

>>33784547
Are you just pretending to be retarded?

http://www.kultofathena.com/swords-medieval.asp

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>>33780957
>Only two spiky flails exist and the historical community still can't decide if they're a practical joke or not.
Hello

>>33784571
>Are you just pretending to be retarded?

No but I am genuinely beginning to think you are if you think that these lumps of metal do not wind up being aged and passed off as antique to unsuspecting buyer and these companies feed that.

The fact that you don't care about the destruction of the western heritage of arms by shitbag companies mass producing fakes complete with markings just tells me you have no appreciation of old swords or weapons to begin with.

>>33784571
>Are you just pretending to be retarded?http://www.kultofathena.com/swords-medieval.asp

Thank God that we can at least always know that that shit is shit even if it is left go rusty or defarbed and stuck in an auction. However the fact is ultimately this stuff is rubbish for teenagers and nothing more.

You either care about history and the heritage of arms or you don't. You care about buying some lump of crap.

>>33784467

Do you imagine every nugget was used to snipe nazis by Vasily Zaitsev too? For every weapon with a history there's thousands just like it that sat in an armory doing nothing of value for its entire service life. But even if you happen to cross paths with a weapon of historical significance, said significance isn't at all diluted by the fact that more weapons similar to it were made years later. Would you rather Fatty McAutist bought a real, historical Cossack sword to cut up water bottles and cardboard silhouettes in his driveway?

>>33784651
>For every weapon with a history there's thousands just like it

No there are not.

Mass production began in earnest in the USA in the mid 19th century. Up to that juncture swords were hand fitted and considerable artisanal craftsmanship went into them.
Having said that a real mosin nagant has been places and been issued and is at least a piece of history. It is not some lump of crap from a Chinese steelworks made last week that is unfit for purpose.

>>33784651
>Fatty McAutist bought a real, historical Cossack sword to cut up water bottles and cardboard silhouettes in his driveway?

Maybe you should stop and think about what you are describing and whether fatty mc autist would be just as well doing that with something that is stamped 'kult of Athena (or whoever actually made it)' and does not have fake Russian markings on it?

In Japan it is a crime to sell a reproduction sword because their care about preserving their history.


How would that

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>>33784569
>Replicated from an original
It says in the description that it's a replica. It's not trying to pass of as an original.

>>33784759
>It says in the description that it's a replica. It's not trying to pass of as an original.

So why is it not marked by the maker with their name?

Why does it have fake markings on it?

And it 50 or 100 years when it has age on it then where does it end up?

Like I say the destruction of western heritage by greed and stupidity.


By the way a real antique blade is not necessarily more expensive in any way than the shit these sites are selling.

>>33780913
>antique
>medieval weapons
>not as expensive (or rusty in a museum) as you think
Wew you fucking dirty stupid degenerate
Properly made replicas and swords designed for HEMA are fine, wallhangers are trash.

>>33784712
>Up to that juncture swords were hand fitted and considerable artisanal craftsmanship went into them.

No. There were a good number of swords made with "artisanal craftsmanship" made for kings, lords and the like, but the vast majority were massed produced arming swords meant to arm common foot soldiers and men at arms. And again, the amount of rage you feel towards chinese lumps of crap would be a cool breeze compared to what you'd feel if the only swords available for Fatty McAutist to hack on cinder blocks with on Youtube were those with historic value.

>>33784712
Fucking bullshit
I'm sick of cunts like you pulling shit out of your fat neckbeard ass.
Look at any record of wills and armouries throughout the 14th-15th-16th centuries, swords came up as cheap as 1d in England. That's 1 penny. After the migration period swords were common as all fuck.

You either get it or you don't

Hopefully some people here do and will stop supporting these companies.

I will never post images of swords I own on the internet or details of weight and balance, dimensions though, so at least these scumbags can't start cloning pot metal versions of them for fatty mc autist to fob off on people as genuine when he has finished whacking plastic bottles with them.

I've seen anons on here posting pictures of swords that they thought were antique and bought as such when they are just repro shit and I feel sorry for them because in the end they have been defrauded for profit by these scumbag companies making and selling this shit without marking. Maybe that's because they are ashamed of it.

>>33784795
>Properly made replicas and swords designed for HEMA are fine

Actually no they are deliberately made for retards to hit each other with safely. If they are marked by the manufacturer then that is not so much of an issue.

>>33784841
I now know you are actually underage. I guess most of you are. No one could be that stupid.

>>33784890
Fucking incorrect you fucking dingus
Don't tar all swords with the reenactment brush
I have a proper weight and proportioned sharp coming from Regenyei Armory later this year and my blunts are correct weight and handling.

Let me ask you, have you held an original XVa? I have, and it felt just like a modern sword made correctly.

Reenactment and SCA crowbars need not apply.
If you don't study the period martial arts don't presume to be an expert on the use of period weapons.

>>33784904
Search the fucking inventories and wills you dumb cunt and prove me right.

http://medieval.ucdavis.edu/120D/Money.html
Sword for 6d in the 1340s, so any English archer could afford one easily after a day in pay.

>>33784922
I know your hema type and have read a great deal of your internet screeching.

I have been working with swords and museums for 25 years and don't need lectures from a mentally ill obsessive lie you who thinks he understands 17th century swords or swordmanship because someone is making money out of his delusions. If you think your hema fake is JUST WONDERFUL an the same thing as a sword hundreds of years old that was hand forged and has travelled though history to the modern day you are far beyond help. Just don't expect the people selling you shit to tell you why it is shit. Not that you would care either way.

>>33784976
Do you want to train with an original 15th century longsword?
Do you?
Get off your fucking cunt collector high horse and actually look at some damned sources on use instead of treating weapons like revered artefacts never to be recreated.

>>33784976
Might I also ask in what way have you been working with swords? Have you been studying how they were used? That's HEMA

Literally the western equivalent of a weeb

Nah. There are no many idiots and children on this place.

>>33785029
>>33785029
>HEMA

Is a syndicated expansion on the 1970s craze in the USA for dressing up as king Arthur. In its modern incarnation about as relevant to history as US medieval fairs.

It makes money for the people involved in it

https://www.hemaalliance.com/club-affiliation/

That is its primary function. Give them your money and shut up.

>>33783195
>The anglo speaking youtube and amateur bloggers are not historians nor particularly expert in anything except reproduction shit..

and "youtube" is not "the historical community".

the historical community when it comes to arms and armour is people like Bob Savage and Thom Richardson, curators of the Royal Armouries. Dr Capwell at the Wallace Collection, or Ralph Moffat in Glasgow Museums. Its Dirk Breidling and Stuart Phyrr, at the Philadelphia Museum of art, and the Metropolitan Museum, respectively. Its men like David Oliver, publisher of the Park Lane Arms Fair, and Clive Thomas, Neil Melville and Tony Willis who publish articles there. Its women like Dr Isobel Immel at the Deutsches Klingenmuseum, and her constant work to educate the public, and Dr Karen Watts at the Royal Armouries, and the hundred PhD papers which she's been instrumental in advising, helping their authors create the body of academic work. Its researchers like Dr Nikolas Dupras, Dr Matthias Goll, Dr Fabrice Cognot, and professionals like Peter Johnsson, publishing studies, hypotheses and research papers, and its academia like Dr Daniel Jaquet and Professor Alan Williams, publishing peer-reviewed publications like Acta Periodica Deullatorium and Gladius, respectively, where research is disseminated.
And it is HEMA, to a degree; the acta Periodica, hroarr, and other peer-reviewed research into the fechbuch, both as a martial art and as a historical study, by authors like Guy Windsor and Matt Galas.

It is not youtube.

The real historical research community is close-knit, we know each other - half those people I've listed there I would call my colleagues. We talk regularly, data is traded. We generally look on the stuff on youtube as being irrelevant.

>>33784976
>>33785087
>Is a syndicated expansion on the 1970s craze in the USA for dressing up as king Arthur. In its modern incarnation about as relevant to history as US medieval fairs.

>It makes money for the people involved in it

What an utter crock of bullshit.

HEMA was a term coined by Matt Easton, of the UK, in the late 1990s. It is not remotely associated with "dressing up as King Arthur". That is like saying that "Karate is a syndicated expansion on the 1970's kung fu craze in the USA", and linking to your local mcDojo as proof its all a profit-making scheme.

Its not. I have no idea what rock you've been living under, but while HEMA contains a number of clubs who are commercial (ARMA, for example) the vast majority of global clubs are neither for-profit, or owned by single individuals. Organisations like BFHS operate as national bodies regulating safe certification of teachers etc. Their turnover is usually a few hundred dollars/pounds/euros per annum, which is invested back into their communities via tournaments or similar events.


>I have been working with swords and museums for 25 years

As have I. I work with the staff of the Glasgow Museums, Wallace Collection, the Royal Armouries, Leeds (the world's largest collection of arms and armour), and a host of others. Not one of those academic bodies has the rotten, toxic attitude you have to HEMA, martial arts, or the craftsmen making replicas. You seriously need to stop spewing crap and reassess your priorities, because you are in no way speaking for the rest of the historical arms community with your idiotic rants

>>33785280
LOL

Matt Easton. The youtube personality who uses black and decker workmates to try and straighten bent swords and flogs average pieces off on his website? That Matt Easton?
>>33785280
>I work with the staff of the Glasgow Museums, Wallace Collection, the Royal Armouries

Doing what?

As regards curators. They rely on the likes of me to advise them and authenticate using material science and research and I invoice them for it. Curators are lovely people and quite often overwhelmed by what they have to look after.

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>>33785280
>craftsmen making replicas
"This replica of a WW1 German Army Trench Knife has a blade of high carbon steel - it is stamped with replica makers marks and inspection stamps for authenticity."

German Trench Knife

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=USK302&name=German+Trench+Knife

Craftsmen....

>>33776005
>kinda interested
God I hate these faggot kids and their faggoty way of expressing themselves like menstruating women about everything

>>33784547
You mean Kult of Athena sells some items that are produced to appear historically accurate because people would like such items but don't have the money/want to spend the money on originals? Oy vey that's horrible! I'm sorry you were retarded enough to buy one of those thinking it was real.

>>33785502
Dude, if you are not a troll, you have to be one of the biggest faggots I've ever seen on 4chan. If you are a troll then props.

>>33785569
>Craftsmen....

If you think a "kult of athena" chinese knock-off and a replica by Peter Johnsson, Dr Fabrice Cognot, Ford Hallam, Per Jillelund-Jensen or the likes are the same thing, then I can only conclude that you are a complete and utter idiot without the slightest clue about what you're talking about.

>>33785502
>Doing what?

doing work that would identify me as one of two people in the world if I say what my field is.
Something I am unwilling to divulge on a Kiribati coconut-fibre-weaving message board.

>As regards curators. They rely on the likes of me to advise them and authenticate using material science and research and I invoice them for it

In which case, I expect you also know Alan, when he has his Wallace collection hat on.

I'm now left wondering who exactly you are. the only one I can think of is Chris, as has the right toxic ego, but hes an armour conservator, not a material/metallurgist.

>>33785642
>Dude, if you are not a troll, you have to be one of the biggest faggots I've ever seen on 4chan. If you are a troll then props.

Muh youtube personality. Matt Easton. Give me strength. He has zero credibility amongst the UK antique sword dealers or experts. None. Neither do museums buy off him or use his services.

Dear Matt

Please post more on swordforums asking basic questions about rust removal.

Yours.
Laughing.

>>33785711
> Give me strength. He has zero credibility amongst the UK antique sword dealers or experts.

really? Because when I was last talking to Peter Finer, he was quite polite about Easton. And I've stood next to representatives of Thomas Del Mar, when he joined us, left, and Del Mar's staff's only comment was "he's a good bloke".

Matt sells the cheap, easily found 19th C stuff. its hardly valuable, and its precisely why museums dont buy them. there's no need. If you actually were working in UK museums, you would know fine well that there isnt a single museum in the UK which has an acquisitions department which would be in need for any 19th C pattern swords of the type that Easton sells.

So I can only conclude that you're a fantasist who pretends to be involved to shit-talk about people like him because they pissed in your cornflakes once upon a time. You certainly do not have anything approaching the manners I would expect of someone in our community without rapidly becoming a pariah.

>>33785813
>Matt sells the cheap, easily found 19th C stuff. its hardly valuable, and its precisely why museums dont buy them. there's no need. If you actually were working in UK museums, you would know fine well that there isnt a single museum in the UK which has an acquisitions department which would be in need for any 19th C pattern swords of the type that Easton sells.


That has to be the most honest thing you've typed. I've nothing personally against him. He's not particularly expert even in the 19th century stuff he deals in but he has enthusiasm
and he's not deliberately deceitful.

As regards the UK community, it probably has more forgers and scam artists acting as 'expert' dealers than any other country.

>>33785895
>As regards the UK community, it probably has more forgers and scam artists acting as 'expert' dealers than any other country.

then you have clearly never been part of the global community.

there are a string of German and US dealers who are vastly worse.

None of the UK ones are laundering for the russian mafia, after all. And no, I'm not naming who, even on an anon board. Lets just say that there are auction houses in Switzerland who have closed down because of the shit they're peddling.

>>33781022
muddy kekstantinople

>>33785957
Yea don't name them, you secret keeper you

>>33785957
No. There are few worse nations than the UK on the dealer side. I find the notion that you think they are a lovely genteel set somewhat comical. Most are bottom feeders who are quite capable of knocking up composites or adding 'features'. They used not be so bad but antiques arms and armour has been in crisis in the UK for some time and they have mortgages to pay and the bottom end got clobbered when they were banned rom ebay. Even the imperial war museum is under huge pressure financially now. Top to bottom the UK is in trouble but there certainly are some extremely dishonest big name dealers who are merrily 'cleaning' and creating composites and 'embellishing' them in financial desperation and you can go and see them and their wares readily.

No one who works with antiques or swords would however as you are be defending repro tat with fake makers marks, which I gave several examples off. So really irrespective of what you are pushing, I'm not buying it.

Easton has to make a living and he's hot a little pot of gold with the kiddies waving their repros around. His rants on things like pistols and revolvers, spadroons, smallswords the 1912 (he can't ride) are comedy gold. He knows how to play to an audience of children for his hema thingy. Anyway he's basically harmless and like I say not deliberately deceitful but knows very little about conservation or 19th century British swords.

Ad no Matt I wont sell you a good gymnasia sword. Find your own and stop googling yourself

>>33786238
>Ad no Matt I wont sell you a good gymnasia sword. Find your own and stop googling yourself


I'm being too mean. OP if you want a real sword go and buy one of eastons 19th century pieces. At least they are not fake and he may have cleaned or straightened them but not dishonestly. You'll have a real piece of history and a real sword.

But please, please. Don't buy these reproductions.

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>>33786206
> I find the notion that you think they are a lovely genteel set somewhat comical.

holy fuck, can you plug into my computer? I've wanted a projector for years, and you do a better job than any machine.

This is spectacular.
you seriously think I imagine them to be "a lovely genteel set "? What the fuck are you on, you demented fantasist? No, I do not think they're "genteel". I know the likes of Finer, David Wheeler at bonhams, and not once have I ever imagined they're "genteel". So you're completely and utterly wrong here.


>No one who works with antiques or swords would however as you are be defending repro tat with fake makers marks, which I gave several examples off.

are you fucking joking? You actually think that a chinese knock-off on KoA is indistinguishable and called a "repro"? I can only conclude you are 19, have spent a week in a museum on placement, because I do not know a SINGLE person in a museum - and the list of those places I've lived in the reserves of up and down this country is shitload longer than you can come up with - who is remotely fooled by 3rd rate knockoffs made for mallninja collectors who pay £50. Are you really that fucking stupid?

Seriously. I've heard some pretty stupid shit in my career, but that is up there at the top of the heap.

>Easton has to make a living and he's hot a little pot of gold with the kiddies waving their repros around

You have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about, do you? you are a textbook case of dunning-kreuger effect.

>>33786464
Op is a barely functioning mongoloid.

>>33786490
>Op is a barely functioning mongoloid.

Possibly but he'll be a barely functioning mongaloid kid with a real 19c sword on his bedroom wall and we all started somewhere.

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Jesus christ, this fucking thread.

>>33785706
Alright pal, you could very easily trip and be almost as good as Oppenheimer in terms of knowledge, but your method of relaying that information to the retards on 4chan is far over their head, so tone it back and convince people to buy real replicas if it matters so much to you

>>33786488
>David Wheeler at bonhams
>>33786488
>Seriously. I've heard some pretty stupid shit in my career, but that is up there at the top of the heap.

I am absolutely certain you have actually. You probably absorbed a great deal of it as truth.

As regards repro houses not marking their shit (thankfully you do recognise it as such) yes, I would like that to happen. I have seen an increasing number of defarbed pieces showing up.

As regards playing with cavalry sables while not being able to ride or pretending that you are a 16th century german because you have a few old manuals.....I'm fairly happy to laugh at hema. It's garbage. Largely because there are schools of order outside the protestant sphere that have never actually stopped since 1600 that encompass some of the finest private collections an bodies of knowledge in the world. I don't think they will be knocking on your door though and its invite only. Even something like stage fencing has some talent. Hema is way, way, way beneath stage fencing. Hema is as stupid as mensur is but even lacks mensurs draw of a little blood, or the Paris crowd and their alcohol wiped blades..


Yes people who can't ride pontificating about cavalry swords on youtube is silly. That's just the truth. Don't get so uptight about it.

>>33786687
I long ago swore I'd never use a trip. truth be told, I very rarely post around these parts. I usually peek in for shits and giggles, and dont get involved.

I'm mostly focusing this on the guy whos pretending to be some sort of museum expert, going on about fake "repro" daggers", and "genteel" brits, and all that nonsense, because he's talking bullshit about my profession, and people I know.

I'd happily change tack to talk at length for the normal guys here. but not really sure where to start. For repros, I orbit a world of £3000+ sword-makers, and £30,000 armours. I really dont know much about the sort of stuff sold on KoA, any more than asking a mechanic on pit wall for the indy500 is likely to get you an answer on why you've got a blinky red light on your car dashboard.

>>33786724
>I know all the antiques dealers
>I work at all the museums
>I know of all the secret fencing schools that are hidden around the world

Do you have even a single bit of credible credentials or actual evidence for anything you say, or are they secret hidden knowledge as well?

>>33786724
> Even something like stage fencing has some talent. Hema is way, way, way beneath stage fencing. Hema is as stupid as mensur is but even lacks mensurs draw of a little blood, or the Paris crowd and their alcohol wiped blades..


You are utterly delusional.

Get help.

>>33786817
Hey since you're here and if you don't mind honest question:
I love the look of a Swedish M1859 sabre. Do you know where to look for one, what auctions do they pop on? What would be an acceptable price for one? Also, do you know what is that thickened/flatter tip on that sabre called? I particularly like that feature as opposed to uniformly curved sabres. I know I sound like a total retard because I 100% lack the terminology, sorry for that. If you or anyone else has an answer I would really appreciate it.

>>33786821
>Do you have even a single bit of credible credentials or actual evidence for anything you say, or are they secret hidden knowledge as well?

of course he doesnt.

this stuff is pretty much the Pierre Sprey of historical arms and armour ranting about how the jets in the 70's were better.

he's claimed to be a materials guy, but I notice he didnt respond at all to my query about him knowing Alan.
His chip on his shoulder about HEMA is mental. As in, he's a frothing maniac.

if it was him, his comments about how
"We learn the truth about the pas by the artefacts of the past, and if in 200 years the entire stock of the western world heritage of arms and armour has been utterly flooded with shit and fakes then it will be as a subject ruined." is so laughably wrong as to be actual laugh-out-loud comedy material. The 19th century was rife with so many forgeries that now fill museums worldwide that if this idiot seriously does not know about the Baumann collection, or Louis Marcy, then he patently has never worked in a museum.

The rest? The rest is even more insane.

>>33786821
>Do you have even a single bit of credible credentials or actual evidence for anything you say, or are they secret hidden knowledge as well?

I'm not splattering the names of anyone I know on here other than people who's names have been already brought up by others and have made a living out of being celebrities. As regards the person splurging at me, he seems to be naming people from youtube videos connected with easton. I don't do business with the Wallace collection and never have? Why would I?

I have held some very rare swords including two that are supposedly lost to history but are not and I have seen people with vocations carrying out unprotected drills as a part of their vocation that makes hema seem a bad joke. I have held swords that belonged to Valetta and Ney and most often work in conjunction with insurance companies. I don't think the person criticising me here has ever met me or ever will. I have had experience with the likes of Bonhams and their auctioneers. I personally would not buy from them.

>>33786920
Says the man who buys stuff made yesterday and thinks it is something to do with history. Pathetic.

>>33783178
>I thought about writing an article on them but then realised that doing so would merely help the shitloads that make and sell what are effectively fakes.

>This is MY history and MY knowledge and NONE of you can have it REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>33786882
>Hey since you're here and if you don't mind honest question:
>I love the look of a Swedish M1859 sabre. Do you know where to look for one, what auctions do they pop on? What would be an acceptable price for one? Also, do you know what is that thickened/flatter tip on that sabre called? I particularly like that feature as opposed to uniformly curved sabres. I know I sound like a total retard because I 100% lack the terminology, sorry for that. If you or anyone else has an answer I would really appreciate it.

nothing wrong with not knowing. once upon a time the only thing I knew about swords was from "conan the barbarian".
... 20+ years of study, I know the film's nonsense, but the music's still great. So its still valid.

ok, Sabres are not my field of research - so I am well out of my expertise here. Last week I was handling 3 swords from the castillon hoard from 1453. That's kind of modern by my usual standards...

So, my first thought: Ask KM. he's a trip here or on /tg/ and is a swede. he may well know of better sales that are local to him. Failing that, Czerny's, and Hermann Historica are the two main auction houses who might have them. HH in particular have catalogue archives online, if you're lucky, you might find one in a past auction to start pricing from.

Acceptable prices, honestly, any number would be pulled out my arse. I cant say at all, as I dont know the rarity or details of that particular pattern.

The thickned/flatter tip (more accurately a broader tip, "thickened" would be meaning the cross-section.), a couple of names. most common is "Yelman", from the turkish/ottoman swords which had the same feature. the name seems to have imported itself as the default name for that shape, from medieval to near-modern styles. .

>>33786817
>I really dont know much about the sort of stuff sold on KoA, any more than asking a mechanic on pit wall for the indy500 is likely to get you an answer on why you've got a blinky red light on your car dashboard.
They'd be a shit mechanic if they couldn't give a reasonable guess provided you could describe how the car was behaving.

>>33786972
Do you have even a single bit of credible credentials or actual evidence for anything you say, or are they secret hidden knowledge as well?

>>33784976
>I have been working with swords and museums for 25 years

>still the autistic janitor

>>33786972
>As regards the person splurging at me, he seems to be naming people from youtube videos connected with easton.

if you can find an easton video with Thom Richardson, Dupras, Goll or Karen Watts, I would fall off my chair. If you can find one with Isobel or Barbara from the deutsches klingesmuseum, you're performing miracles.

you'll find Fabrice, and maybe Peter, because both are craftsmen Matt knows. Because I'm in the same circle of friends, I know they've met. but if you really want to imagine I'm trawling youtube to name drop, you're so far detached from reality its laughable.

> I don't do business with the Wallace collection and never have? Why would I?

Because you claimed 30 mins ago to be some sort of world expert materials guru who's worked with museums for 25 years and billed them all for the privilege of being graced by your infinite wisdom?

>>33786920
>The 19th century was rife with so many forgeries that now fill museums worldwide that if this idiot seriously does not know about the Baumann collection, or Louis Marcy, then he patently has never worked in a museum.

That's the best part. I don't give a shit about museums. I don't give a shit about the 19th century or antiques in general. My only antiques are uranium glass coasters,and that's just because I like pissing off hippies with NUCLEAR DRINK COASTERS.

A sword is a tool, and I care as much about the history of it as I do the history of a fucking claw hammer.

And somehow, even I know more abbot the 19th being forgery central than this guy.

Add in the deranged double-headed flail fanboyism/MINE IS REAL NU-UHism, and it's clear.

This is actual, real life autism. Not 4chan autism, but the kind where parents lose their religion over the fate their child has been dealt.

>>33787053
Look.

Literally the only name he knows is KM, and he can't give solid ANYTHING in his responses.


This is an autistic man desperately fantasizing. Just move on. You may as well argue with a schizophrenic.

>>33785097
I'm going to email all of these people with screen caps of this thread

>>33787092
true - the analogy was shit.
in my defence, if 4:30 in the morning here, and I couldnt think of anything better.

>>33787168
No. You're full of shit, in over your head, and trying so hard to deflect that you're revealing your total lack of knowledge.

You think that an Indy 500 car, being "the best" is radically different from a street car at a base level, so the experts in it would have reason to not understand much about uncool regular street cars.

You're doing the same shit with swords, because you think super cool antiques are matertially and fundamentally different from modern machined swords and repros, and that gives you an excuse to be evasive and not know anything.

You're just as wrong, for the same reasons.

Your shit analogy says more about your mindset-and the fantasy you're living in-than anything else in this thread.

Go get your fucking tendies.

>>33787166
>I'm going to email all of these people with screen caps of this thread

I hope you do.

>>33787227
>No. You're full of shit, in over your head, and trying so hard to deflect that you're revealing your total lack of knowledge.


Your splurging at the wrong person BTW. You may be oblivious to it but there are several people on this thread.

>>33787227
>You're doing the same shit with swords, because you think super cool antiques are matertially and fundamentally different from modern machined swords and repros, and that gives you an excuse to be evasive and not know anything.

yes they are and in many ways. As I said further up the thread even the radionuclides in them are different and that's just a starting point.

>>33787161
and now I know you're just a troll, because you've turned to mimicry, by using the word "fantasising", because its what I said of you.

well, there we have it.

>That's the best part. I don't give a shit about museums.

he says, having claimed he worked so much with them earlier.
Cant even keep to the same story...

>>33787166
Good luck.

want the emails of the ones in France I was studying the castillons at too? Maybe those for the Belgian museums. I'd kind of love to have someone recognise that guy if he really was working for them in materials, from his tone of voice.


Say, if you find any russian museums while hunting for the people there, let me know. Never been there.

>>33787330
You have two options.

>a single bit of credible credentials
or
>actual evidence for anything you say

>>33787348
>and now I know you're just a troll, because you've turned to mimicry, by using the word "fantasising", because its what I said of you. well, there we have it.

I'm over here. You splurged at the wrong person again.

>>33787348
Protip:
I'm not the museum guy.

>>33787350
Well it's pretty easy to explain radionuclides.

As steel uses atmospheric gas there is some contamination in the material from the atmospheres. Due to the onset o the atomic age you an tell whether steel is pre-1945 or not.

Of course there are literally hundreds of other factors that separate a modern fake from the real thing. Above all one has a place in history and the other like a bit of Victorian tat made because Sir Walter Scott was fashionable, does not other than as a decorative item.

>>33787378
>Protip:I'm not the museum guy.

Neither are half the people he is splurging at. He's a retard who clearly makes his living selling shit to retards

>>33787348
Oh, youre the cool one. Materials guy is a fucking sperg and I was gonna cut out just his posts for being a massive faggot and condescending every single person on here for liking what he doesn't like.

>>33787348
>want the emails of the ones in France I was studying the castillons at too?

I don't think you speak French. I'm pretty certain of that. You are a britbong retard.

>>33787472
>Oh, youre the cool one. Materials guy is a fucking sperg and I was gonna cut out just his posts for being a massive faggot and condescending every single person on here for liking what he doesn't like.

Wrong splerg again.

Bald men are so uptight.

>>33787434
You can read a wikipedia article.

Now how about some credible evidence for secret societies of fencers existing since the 17th century, or of being an expert museum consultant, or of knowing absolutely anything about anything apart from a bizarrely personal grudge against Matt Easton?

>>33787526
>a bizarrely personal grudge against Matt Easton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZiW43ld-_Y

>>33787503
God damnit, this thread turned into a cluster. Guess I'll just masturbate and go to bed then. Goodnight autists.

>>33787552
>Guess I'll just masturbate and go to bed then

Careful, do that too much and your hair might fall out and you'd be bald.

>>33787582
so that's why ... shit. will it grow back if I stop

>>33787590
>so that's why ... shit. will it grow back if I stop

Only if you stop touching fake swords

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9qG-DRPIUs

>>33786972
>Valetta

This?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0XLsx8hyS4

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>>33787161
>A sword is a tool, and I care as much about the history of it as I do the history of a fucking claw hammer.

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>>33776005
>me like flail
>me want that flail so I can play flail three more times
>me be able to bash three more weeaboos with three flails
>me like legos.

>>33790278
don't make fun of our special boy

I can't be arsed to read through this clusterfuck, did the HEMA bashing antiques cuck leave yet?

>>33776005
Don't believe the cunts that tell you maces are anti-armor weapons. Bones are natural armor. Brain controls everything, that triangle shot pattern at the face for the weak spot with handguns is all about hitting a spot that will incapacipate the brain.>>33784021
This is less pretty than my mace but less likely to get stuck too. One hit is all you need if you're lucky, if you're not the follow up not getting stuck would probably work better than my mace.

>>33792723
Don't aim for the face with that though, mace might destroy the face but it won't hit the face just crumple everything around it. I'd aim a bit higher.

>>33792738
won't hit the brain. **
I wouldn't want to watch them squirm around involuntarily. I'd try to hit a spot they got a good chance of stopping and not twitching a lot after. Unless you're quick enough to hit them twice but then shit is going to fly around and splatter it could happen maces are fucking sweet.

>>33791981
Please show me a HEMA or Society creative anachronism that hit modern armor with that shit. Even if you pick and choose a mace head it's not going to have enough force to make it through a ceramic plate carrier. Steel probably. I don't think ceramic though.

What the fuck happened in this thread I came in here expecting people to be talking about flails

>>33793428
I quoted myself like 3 or 4 times to bump it because flails seem like bullshit, man.
Anything heavy will hit someone and fuck their shit up but flails? Those 3 sectioned ones they never have a heavy fucking thing on the end. Add in more than one hit thing and the bit you hit with you know what i mean? you don't need more than one.

>>33783178
>I for one will not help the US and Chinese based 'fakes' market by giving any detail.
>I thought about writing an article on them but then realised that doing so would merely help the shitloads that make and sell what are effectively fakes.
This is an incredible level of autism and I suggest you nys.

>>33793462
Single ball flails are better
They are shown in contemporary art, mostly with long shafts.

>>33794240
single balls long shafts?

>>33794737
I imagine you'd want two balls with a long shaft

>>33794746
Very far from what I imagine bro

>>33786206
I thought those people in the UK couldn't even own steak knives? How are they buying giant indian sword like objects?

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>>33794737
Well desu most depictions show an end like this.
There's a few showing balls. Even fewer showing more than one ball, but it is shows in contemporary art.

>>33795448
Maybe don't get your knowledge of laws from /k/ memes

>>33795484
So is a D&D flail a real thing or not? That's all I really wanted out of this thread and there's all sorts of penis waving that doesn't answer the question.

>>33795448
To be fair he said "on the dealer side" anwhere in the world if it is in writing the dealer will sodomize your mother in front of you and make you pay for it.

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>>33795539
>So is a D&D flail a real thing or not?

Probably not. but its not a yes/no answer.

flails existed, that much is certain. but were they medieval, and were they the spiked ball on a chain, on a stick? that's the sticky part.

Medieval flails did exist. they were called scourges, they often had 3 cords. but they are very small, often the "heads" being just the size of your fingernail. or knotted cord. they were whips, for animals or flagellation, not weapons of war.

single balls on chain existed, among the hussites in particular. but they're a long haft used from a war wagon. and they're shown in just a handful of images, and all on the same subject.

flails from threshing farm tools existed. but they're a stick head with hinge, not ball and chain.

post-medieval flails existed. but normally one head. those range from renaissance to early baroque era, and they made a resurgence in WW1 trenches.


So, in conclusion. is OP's 3-balled chain and haft flail medieval? No.
Are flails real weapons? Yes, but they vary greatly depending on the period of use, the geography, and the details of construction, and none really look like OP's pic.