Is FMJ really the best option if one carries .380 or 9x18? The

>>33769764
>The only HP ammo I've seen in these cartridges with consistent expansion is Hornady
So buy hornady. The extra tissue destruction will still trump a slight failure to meet some arbitrary penetration depth.

>>33769764

i'm using FMJ for my carry 380

i'm more concerned about getting past several layers of clothes than expanding after hitting a t-shirt

>>33769764
>.380
Underwood Extreme Penetrator

>>33769764
i carry sig hollow point in my g42.

i have always wondered if it is better to run fmj on such small .380's

>>33769764
The Federal HSTs, Underwoods, and Precision One bullets have decent results.

>>33769777
There is nothing arbitrary about achieving sufficient penetration.

Expansion won't mean much if the bullet doesn't penetrate enough for it to hit a vital spot.

>>33769764
I carry the hornady xtp in my .380
I too have seen from more than one source of them being pretty consistent.
Even if they get junked up and dont expand, then they overpenetrate almost as mush as a FMJ.

>>33770160
Everything I have seen about the sig hollow points has been really poor, in multiple rounds

I carry hydra shocks im my .380 because they don't expand as much as other HPs and get decent penetration

>>33770239
Hitting several layers of clothing is a big failure point for hollow points. They can have trouble expanding with say 4 layers of denim and such. Its not going to make their penetration much worse though, they just wont expand and will work essentially as a FMJ. Its not that important to me because it will be effective regardless.

>>33769764
Silver bear also makes hp for 9x18

OP, watch this series. This is the winner's circle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNtPHYwcDts

>>33769764
I carry ARX River ammo in my .380.
SIG also has a .380 FMJ bullet with the 30% of cross section being a flat nose. That is supposed to be ideal for meat bag penetration.

>>33769764
As long as everyone swears they won't tell Zed I'd probably run FMJ in a 380 just to make sure I got the penetration.

what about the argument if it doesnt expand its basically fmj anyways?

and the other argument to use FLAT POINT metal jackets?

>>33770831
Flat nose (30% of cross section), has been shown to penetrate best. It sort of cuts through better. Things act differently at bullet speeds.
The issue with 380 hollow points is that they don't have enough energy to both expand and penetrate.

For me when you talk about 380:
ARX ammo > fmj > hollow points

9mm I always carry hollow points.

>>33770550
How do those perform? I didn't know Russia used hollow points.

>>33769764
depends on your personal beliefs.

I don't give a shit about over penetration because if I have to shoot a guy in self defense I want to kill his body and his soul so that means over penetration is a good thing because exit wounds are always bigger than entrance wounds.

I carry FMJ .357 magnum. Fuck the bad guy and his cover and the cover behind him.

COME AT ME BROS

>>33770924
>caring about a so called "large exit wound" more than caring about a large gaping wound channel
>wanting his bullet to penetrate out of the body instead of staying within the body

Ripping a large hole into someone, then leaving a foreign body in it causes the body to go into complete shock and worry about rejecting the bullet.
Thats better than a smaller wound channel where the bullet exits out of the body, even with an exit wound

>>33770973
More bleeding is more important and unlike the Hollywood movies and TV shows Exit wounds always suck...bullets going strait through are not a good thing.

>>33769764
Anyone who tells you to carry ball for the .380 is retarded and has done no research on the cartridge and has submitted to memes.

Realistically anything in .380 loaded with a Hornady XTP bullet is good to go, consistently meeting FBI penetration requirements.
>Hornady Custom
>Hornady American Gunner
>Fiocchi Extrema
>HPR HyperClean
>PrecisionONe

Aside from that, the only other expanding cartridge that meets specs is the Federal HydraShok. Literally every other cartridge is sub-par and anyone who suggests otherwise is even more retarded.

FUCK FMJ

>>33771950
calls people retarded

dosent give sauce.

fuck off poser

>>33769946
Garbage meme ammunition. It penetrates less than FMJ ammunition while leaving a wound channel similar to FMJ ammunition.
>inb4 some retard who fell for the marketing bullshit responds telling me how their service pistol ammunition is magical and can actually cause damage to things it doesn't directly hit, despite all the research that shows otherwise
>inb4 posters actually think the extreme penetrator design is new and hasn't been around in various forms since the 1970s

>>33771068
More bleeding is only good if you hit something worth shooting. You need to make a minimum level of penetration before you try to make the hole bigger.

>>33769946
Trash tier meme bullet
Might as well carry FMJ

A fmj .380 will go through a target easily, it's still a 9mm. The Hornygays are one of the only rounds that actually expands correctly so if you carry 380 get the right ammo. If it's a single stack a single box of them is like 3 magazines anyway.

>>33771950
>PrecisionONe
You lost everyone at "cheap Walmart Fiocchi's"

Buffalo Bore makes a higher pressure 9x18 loading with the Hornady XTP bullet, as well as a even hotter one with a hard cast bullet. They call them both "+P" but they are within spec and not actually +P, just hotter than most commercial rounds besides underwood.

>>33771950
You actually did your research!
And you are correct in saying those two are your best choices.

>>33769764
Believe it or not the old Federal Hydrashok .380 met FBI penetration requirements while providing decent (~.425") expansion.

>>33770922
They don't. And they perform exactly like FMJ because they use a thick steel jacket and don't expand.

Just like every other Russian hollowpoint ever made regardless of caliber.

>>33776564
So hollow points can't function with steel cased ammo?

Does that apply to soft points too?

>>33776841
Jackets not casing. id wager that they could work if properly designed, the steel that those kinds of rounds tend to be made of is quite mild.

>>33769764
A 9mm hydrashok will bee stop'ed by a dubblelayer off a germen flakvest. Even fmj 9 mm will bee stopped.

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>>33769764
Why are you worried about FBI penetration standards when you are carrying a gun that is considered inadequate by the FBI?

>>33770572
that faggot is a douche shill

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Holy shit. It's a ballistics thread on /k/ where people are discussing expanded diameter and penetration depth and not "muh energy transfer" or "muh kinetic energy dump."

/k/ is finally becoming less retarded.

>>33770269
except any reasonable decent hollow point in 2017

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Why not just practice shooting the head. Easy and cheaper.

>>33769764
This is what i carry and it actually reaches fbi standards. And its cheap and come in boxes of 50.
https://youtu.be/aH2eFby2T9E

Bufflalobore makes some pretty sweet hard cast flatnose lead projectiles and +p pressures.

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>>33778804
I bought some 9mm in case I run into a grizzly.

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I carry a .380 and I am very confident in it with the rounds i use, pic related.

>>33779104
Or someone is wearing a thick winter coat?

>>33779124
I would like to point out that a lot of 380 guns are NOT +p rated.

>>33773613
Google it you retard, its easily verifiable. ShootingTheBull410 did a whole series if you want to skip actual research.

>>33773785
>I don't recognize a brand name so its shit
kys

>>33778423
>implying you can shoot someone in the head under stress

>>33779124
>Doesn't reach recommended penetration requirement
>Very confident
Enjoy dying because you didn't use ball

>implying hollowpoints in those caliber have enough velocity to expand

I really don't think a non-expanding hollowpoint that doesn't fragment is going to act any different. If it's frangible then a fmj might be better. A big hole might be better than a bunch of small ones that don't go as deep. Fuck if I know though.