Thoughts on internally suppressed handguns

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Dominator/10

why bother when you can just get a deagle?

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>>33754667

>>33754646
They ruined the whole point by making it length-configurable.

The mental model regressed to "hang on, let me add baffles to the end so I can shoot quieter", which is the exact same thing we're already doing.

It also makes it impossible to get a simple, straight answer to asking how quiet it is or whether it's hearing-safe. There's already enough variance caused by different 9mm bullet weights

living in Utah I see their shitty advertising in all the local gun shops so I'm annoyed with them based on that alone

>>33754646
I think the concept is useless because it adds weight and bulk to a pistol you don't need to have.

If you NEED a suppressed pistol, which I don't think you ever do other than for just "why the fuck not" - adding a suppressor to the end and subsonic ammo will not change your use case or break the deal. Ever. Nobody is a hitman here.

If you are looking to CCW you give zero fucks about potential hearing damage

It's targeting a niche market that doesn't exist. But it will be cool to own if the HPA goes through.

>>33754975
I think they look pretty cool desu but this is coming from someone who gets hard over the FK BRNO

>>33754999
Is there any pricing or release date info on that damn thing yet?

>>33754646
for a dedicated suppressed pistol it's inherently more efficient than an externally suppressed handgun in terms of length which is the most problematic quantity when doing any serious kind of thing with a suppressed handgun.

If it's not for real work it doesn't particularly matter.

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>>33754975
being designed from the ground up to be suppressed is better than lol stick a suppressor on it with adapters then swap out springs and retune things to make it work.

think its neat it has things like a fixed barrel and half a slide

>>33754646
I could see them being used in police and military forces to reduce public disturbance.

>>33754975
>It's targeting a niche market that doesn't exist.
If I were a cop or someone who carried a duty pistol, I'd love to have something suppressed that's not significantly bigger than a normal full sized pistol. For an enthusiast, it's just a toy though.

>>33754975
not losing your hearing in a defensive situation isn't useful?
>hitman
oh, this is a troll post

>>33755037
An anon claimed he emailed them and they said $7500 and $300 for 1 mag. i dunno though its pissing me off n other pistols which have the size that one does? every pistol I have ever used is to small for me.

>>33755132
that anon was full of shit. MSRP for maxim 9 is ~2500 (so actual price is probably going to be more like $2000) and it's supposed to ship with three magazines, also it takes glock mags so he was obviously taking the piss.

>>33755132
Sorry for shitty english im exhausted.

An anon claimed he emailed them and they said $7500 and $300 for 1 mag. i dunno though its pissing me off any other pistols with a smiliar length and width? every pistol I have ever used is to small for me.

>>33755132
I've heard $1200-1500 and they'll probably use Glock mags.

>>33755169
That would be great but how would it use a glock mag? they are a propriety caliber 7.5mm(?)

>>33754646
Integrally suppressed anything is neat.

Don't know why it's not the standard for guns in general yet.

>integral suppressor breaks
>I have to send the whole fucking gun to the manufacturer for repair

Meh.

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Some of them make me excited.

That one in OP is ugly, yet functional.

>>33755181
where the fuck are you getting your information? they're 9mm...........

>>33755209
because if you follow the comment thread, they're talking about the FK Brno
but they're doing it like retards and trading unsubstantiated rumors

>>33755209
the FK BRNO? https://www.fkbrno.com/en/7-5-fk-system

>>33754646
>internally suppressed handguns
They should stop hiding their emotions.

>>33755221
Its literally because there is no info on any of the price tags on the fucker even though their should be.

>>33755240
that's no excuse to spread unsubstantiated rumors

>>33755250
True but I also said I don't know just repeating what another Anon said ah oh well I can always spend my life savings on a single pistol and a few mags.

>>33755222
The maxim 9, the gun this thread is about.

I didn't read all the way up the comment chain, forgive me.

>>33755285
Its fine man I was offtopic anyway. So heres a though put a silencer on that gun to create the ultimate silenced gun you could fire an entire mag and nobody would know. fire a few mags worth at a police station they wont know it was you TRY IT!

>>33754646
They're nice because the gun can be built around the silencer, making a more efficiently quiet weapon. They're not nice because silencers will inevitably fail first so if the guts aren't easy to replace, the gun has a very short life.

>>33755355
So, why not just make guns with suppressors that can be replaced?

>>33755392
Then it wouldn't be integrally suppressed. If the silencer is integrated, the silencer and slide are one.

>>33755415
Well shit.

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>>33755132
I can sell you some for $250 a piece.

>>33754646
If the NFA gets rid of cans, I'll buy one and try it out. Until then, I'll buy them as muzzle devices.

>>33755415
>>33755441
no.

>>33754646
I'd rather have integrally suppressed ammo. If the HPA passes I wonder if captive piston ammo will come out on the market.

>>33755355
>They're not nice because silencers will inevitably fail first
That's not really an issue at all since baffles are replaceable and don't even wear out particularly quickly in the first place.

Modern suppressors are different from Vietnam era ones.

>>33755059
>>33755085
This is some business 101 type stuff, but I'm going to drop it on you. One question you always need to ask yourself, before making product or selling it, is

>if demand for the product exists, why is nobody already creating a supply

In this case, especially with lucrative government contracts where they know people will specifically make products to meet tender specs, the government at any point could have made a request for an integrally suppressed pistol, but hasn't

Furthermore, we also see that almost no LEO's are issuing suppressors on even a niche basis, let alone on a wide scale. If there was demand for a quieter service pistol, we would atleast see a number of select LE departments across the country issuing some form of suppressor for their duty pistols

I could go further, but this poster seems to highlight it:

>>33755079
It seems to be a niche case scenario where it may see a few individuals picking it up but not adopted widespread

>>33754646
>Thoughts on internally suppressed handguns

"Good in defensive daily carry." Not much else.

>>33757435
>This is some business 101 type stuff, but I'm going to drop it on you. One question you always need to ask yourself, before making product or selling it, is
>>if demand for the product exists, why is nobody already creating a supply

There isn't a large demand because the tax stamp makes it much harder to buy and completely impossible to impulse-buy.

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>>33755085
>Not wearing earpro constantly

What pussy shit are you even carrying?

>>33757286
>Modern suppressors are different from Vietnam era ones.

>muh rubber disks
>muh tearing

>>33757587
Doesn't explain why we have a virtually 0 adoption rate from LEOs... Internationally.

If you were correct we would see units who actually experience these niche use cases looking to adopt it. LEO demand may be nearly nonexistent.

>>33757595

My jeans don't have room for a gun that big, my cock takes up too much space.

>>33754646
I don't see them selling more than a few thousand without HPA passing. If HPA passed, I'd buy one.

>>33757435

>the government at any point could have made a request for an integrally suppressed pistol, but hasn't

Fed gov is the only gov entity with enough money to make those requests. In their world, pistols are back up weapons. For those cases, off the shelf solutions are by far a cheaper option; the 'lucrative govt contracts' is a meme; it is and always has been lowest bidder. (case study - the FNSCAR, superior to M16 in every way; yet dumped for '60s tech because cost/benefit ratio to equip and retrain is too low)

>we also see that almost no LEO's are issuing suppressors on even a niche basis

First of all they don't issue suppressors because current designs are a limiting factor (ie handling characteristics are greatly affected). Furthermore, what's your definition of 'niche'? FBI HRT, local PD SWAT, all DOD, DOJ and DHS SRTs, Secret Service, DSS, etc all issue suppressors for their primary weapons. Yes, those aren't pistols but they have identified a need for suppressors in their operating environment; if the option exists to acquire internally suppressed sidearms off the shelf, it only makes sense to adopt.

>It seems to be a niche case scenario where it may see a few individuals picking it up but not adopted widespread

If internally suppressed pistols can match up to current pistols in most areas and provide the benefit of a more pleasant shooting experience, I don't see why they wouldn't take off. Sure, they might start out very niche, but once the proof of concept reaches the mainstream and prices become competitive, people will begin making switch (btw saw this movie before; it was called polymer pistols).

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>>33757620
>it only makes sense to adopt

This is your biggest problem. You are under belief the Maxim-9 has none of the downsides of standard suppressors. The weapon is still larger, bulkier, and you now have introduced issues with weapon lights and lasers, which seem to have a much higher "it was useful" incidence rate than a suppressor would.

The pistol in full length is fucking huge, and in the smaller configuration is still bit and bulky.

If the suppression was achievable by some miracle of technology that allowed the pistol to have almost no increase or size, or somehow no size increas at all, I would agree with you that such an item would be useful.

But the times you'd need a suppressor seem limited enough that no tender has ever been requested for the product, period, from any agency. You have obvious downsides, and don't really gain as much from having a dedicated item than a mission configurable platform. The Osprey Micro is small enough to make the Maxim obsolete, has no inherent downsides in comparison to the Maxim, is mission configurable, and is made by the same company. Seems like a better solution.

>>33757658
You're thinking too short term. Maxim-9 is only the first variant.

As other mfgs break into the market and invest in r&d, tech will become smaller, better, more affordable.

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>>33757681
I think the laws of physics are going to limit the development. The gas needs the space to expand. You can't create negative space through engineering.

Unless we are getting into special ammo requirements, or the internal flaps or whatever that the bullet pushes past, but both of those have negative downsides.

I'm not saying there will be ZERO customers as once the HPA passes there is going to be some people who like to buy meme guns thay will, but I'm of the belief if I wanted the benefit of the Maxim 9 with none of the downsides I'd get an Osprey Micro. Same size, similar impact, no downsides of a dedicated platform.

>>33757658
>The Osprey Micro is small enough to make the Maxim obsolete, has no inherent downsides in comparison to the Maxim
the Osprey Micro is a .22 suppressor, meant for .22 LR and .22 WMR.

>>33755159
the BRNO, not the Maxim.

>>33757733
>Receive tender to make Osprey Micro in 9mm
>It gets made

Ask me what else my crystal ball can see

>>33757769
>Receive tender to make Osprey Micro in 9mm
>It gets made
>it reduces report by X decibels but not enough to remain hearing safe with 9mm while remaining the same size
>nobody wants it

>>33757713
>You can't create negative space through engineering.

You kind of can - cooling will reduce gas volume *fast* which can be accomplished by various engineering means.

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>>33754975
>Nobody is a hitman here.

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>>33757799
>Receive tender to make the short version of the Maxim 9
>Normal Maxim 9 is already 140DB
>It's objectively not hearing safe but still loud as fuck

>Normal Osprey Suppressor in 9mm
>127db
>Can probably find a balance
>Maxim 9 in long configuration is still TWICE AS LOUD as this at 136-138db

>Make a custom kydex holster that allows you to draw the weapon forward instead of upward to remove the only downside of attaching a suppressor
>Oh wait these already exist LOL!
>Now can use Osprey as duty weapon
>Can continue to use weapon lights without issue
>Solve 99% of use cases that aren't CCW
>Maxim still too bulky for good CCW

It's a gimmick color me fucking shocked!

>>33754975
>If you are looking to CCW you give zero fucks about potential hearing damage
But that's not true. One of my biggest worries with CC'ing is hearing damage.

>>33757769
nigga they're not just going to drill the hole bigger and suddenly it works in 9mm. The Micro's volume is tiny, the only 9mm suppressor of similar size use wipes to get to hearing-safe levels. The Maxim is much more efficient with space.

>>33757970
Would this ever prevent you from drawing in a life or death situation? Or having to draw a heavier, bulkier gun to do so?

>>33757970
same. If CC with a suppressor was actually feasible I'd do it.

>>33757595
>it's sling ready
why is even a hand gun

>>33757983
No, it wouldn't stop me. But I would carry a slightly bigger package if it was more likely not to rape my ears.

My tinnitus is bad enough without shooting a pistol indoors without hearing protection.

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>>33757981
>believe company has engineering capabilities to make an incredible suppressor
>Simultaneously believe company in no way has the engineering capability to make an incredible suppressor

You understand early models of the Maxim were bolted onto existing firearms, right? It's not like they can't find a way to make the concept an after market modification

>>33754975
>If you NEED a suppressed pistol, which I don't think you ever do other than for just "why the fuck not"
They are perfect for home defense. If I ever need to shoot my indoors I'd prefer to keep my ears intact, especially considering there is no downsides whatsosver.

>inb4 earpro
>implying the burglar will wait until you are done putting it on

>>33757962
>136-138db

>Literally as loud as a jet engine

Jesus

>>33758022
>Using a home defense gun
>Without a weapon light

Have fun shooting your wife

>>33758030
>implying you can't have both the light and the supressor
Are you being dumb on purpose?I sincerely hope so, for your sake.

>>33757584
>literally larger than a deagle
>defensive carry
Pick one and only one

>>33757994
To use during the separate handgun hunting season where you're not allowed to use rifles.

Same reason the Contender/Encore come with 10-14" barrels and have a forend.

>>33758006
I don't doubt their ability to make a suppressor, I doubted your goofy "make a .22 suppressor in 9mm" idea. They totally could make some kinda suppressed slide/upper assembly. They probably went the whole-gun route for cost reasons since they were already manufacturing the most expensive parts.

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>>33758040
Not on the Maxim 9 cause even tho they added the rail its fucking retarded and you have no practical way of utilizing it with any of the good lights and lasers on the market

>>33758030
or have a separate light
or they could put a rail under the suppressor
who cares if the light is mounted an inch lower?

>>33758097
Look at this picture
>>33758088

Tell me how you would turn on a Surefire x400

>>33758102
I have no idea and I don't care
there is a rail to mount a light to, but you've moved the goalposts and declared it shit because you can't use your personal favorite $500 light

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>>33758114
>YEAH DUDE YOU CAN MOUNT A LIGHT NO PROBLEM AT ALL
>Tell me how you would activate the most popular pistol light on the market
>LOL MOVING GOALPOST FAG

Literally BTFO

>>33757602
Stop wearing skinny jeans

>>33758102
you turn it on by getting a different light

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>>33758102
there are several remote switches available for the X400, and most other surefire models. Here's a large one

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>>33758176
here's a smaller pistol one
and if the ideal switch doesn't exist somewhere on the market then somebody would make one

>>33757989

Same. There's also wiped suppressors that could be smaller, like the Degroat Nano and Gemtech Aurora. I'm curious if Silencerco or another company would produce a sub or a compact pistol with an integrated wiped suppressor, specifically for the CC market. I think it would be more popular than the current one they've released.

The biggest worry would be using defensive ammo designed to expand, since hollowpoints are a definite nono for wiped suppressors.

>>33758176
>Use the gadget they invented so people can use their favorite, reliable pistol light on their RIFLE so you can use it on your pistol

Are you somehow unable to see all the numberous issues, just in this little simple thing alone?

>>33758189
are you somehow unable to see the post below it? It's a switch, they're easy to make, and they already exist.

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>>33758195
>A switch for the Maxim 9 already exists
No.

>Relying on the market to invent aftermarket to fix your design flaws, instead of not having those design flaws
Hmm.

>Not just using the Osprey which is twice as quiet, can be used on your favorite fun you are already trained on, and doesn't have this problem
Really activates the almonds

>>33757970
The chances of permanent hearing damage from a few shots of 9mm or the like is pretty low.

>>33758219
Then do that? The original postulation was that suppressed guns are good for HD. We've come full circle. Nobody has ever tried arguing that the Maxim is somehow better for that

>>33758262
The original, original postulation was that they aren't needed. As in, needed. Not wanted, or if you ever did use it that it would be a preferable outcome (less risk). The original statement is needed, and it's not. They are very much a "want" and people have argued the Maxim fulfills those wants (HAD, CCW, Service pistol) better than a seperate suppressor. I disagree on all fronts, and maintain that either

>The cost of hearing protection is not worth what you pay for it, either in bulk, abandonment of weplight switching methodology, and current lack of industry options
>The gun is not that quiet
>There are good, suppressor compatible holsters on the market that eliminate the primary issue with suppressors, the draw time.

The Maxim 9 is a niche product that fills almost no need, outside of select few Secret Service members offing a dude in a back room and other weird cases. It is an entirely want driven product. It's market share will be limited.

If the price came down a lot and the HPA passed, I would get one. Otherwise, no. That's how I feel about them.

>>33757948
this

Police should use it with subsonic ammo.

>Protects their hearing.
>They don't have to worry about bulk.
>protects the hearing of innocents
>protects innocents from over penetration

>>33757658
>If the suppression was achievable by some miracle of technology that allowed the pistol to have almost no increase or size, or somehow no size increas at all, I would agree with you that such an item would be useful.

Something like captive piston ammo?

>>33754747
The shorter configuration will properly suppress 147 gr, and the longer will suppress the faster 115 gr., whats so hard about that to understand

>>33755181
This guy >>33755169 was talking about the Maxim.

>>33759468
>They don't have to worry about bulk.
Police have huge worries about bulk. Belt space is at a premium and anything on it needs to be out of the way while sitting, standing, and walking. Weight is also an increasing concern as the number of studies regarding lower back injury and long term wearing of vests and heavy duty belts.

>>33757970
Carry a .45 and enjoy being subsonic.

>>33760130
Ok, police don't have the same concerns about bulk as others.

>>33755205
the suppressor is removable anon

>>33760130
>Weight is also an increasing concern as the number of studies regarding lower back injury and long term wearing of vests and heavy duty belts.
Bear in mind that most of them are carrying around 50+ pounds of fat in addition to all of the gear and I can understand how this would be an issue.

>>33762244
That doesn't change the fact that wearing kit on belts is terrible for your back. The places that will fuck you up least are upper body and thigh. The standard should be to keep your sidearm, ammo, and flashlight on your thighs, keep everything else on a tight vest primarily loaded on the chest.

>>33754671
>dEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEagle

>>33758088
>what is DG-12

Kill yourself

>>33754646
gay enough where Mike Pence is firing up the cattle prod

>>33754975

> implying I am not a hitman

>>33762519
His integrally-charged cattle prod?

>>33762540
as God intended, yes

>>33755159

Maxim is in stock at THSF for under $1500, I think SPEQ price is like 1379 dood>>33755168

>>33755355

Do you have any idea how many rounds you would need to wear out a rifle silencer, much less a pistol can?

My concern is the "gun" part of the maxim will be subpar.

>>33757435
If everyone throughout history just assumed that no existing supply = no existing demand, literally nothing would have been made
Maybe consider that the real world operates beyond the limits of Business 101

>>33754646

Cool, I guess.

>>33762577
It's a copyright-free M&P, take that how you will

>>33762606
>no existing supply = no existing demand

This is not the argument. This is the problem. You have to overcome this problem. You can't deny an Occam's razor scenario with just another Occam's razor.

Considering 9 out of 10 start ups go out of business within the first few years the idea of "if they build it they will come" is literally retarded.

Provide an argument or don't talk about even the basic aspects of the simplest parts of commerce

>>33758254
that's not how hearing damage works. You will hurt your ears shooting 9mm without protection. but It won't do too much damage. the damage increases indoors.


there is a 100% chance of small, permanent hearing damage from 1 shot of 9mm.

frequency, intensity, duration. hearing damage works a lot like radiation poisoning

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>>33762287
well I have a solution.

>>33764174
You kid but I was thinking something similar. If we went back to older style shit like underarm holsters and cross-belts it'd be way better on the officers' bodies. Just get them to practice their cross-chest draw.

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>>33764198
black patent leather H suspenders for their duty belt?

>>33764236
Of course; the biggest problem now is that most officers don't have a waist taper so they might not be able to fully close their arms.

>>33764278
more PT

>>33754975
>Not deafening yourself is useless

>>33754646
The future if we ever the the Hearing Protection Act. passed.

>>33754975
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>33754646
>pain in the ass to holster
>even harder to conceal
>great for shouting "DIE DIE DIE" and spinning around in circles

>>33760130
I found a study about back issues and belts. Seems most of the issue is an imbalanced belt. So I think it could be worked around
http://scholarworks.gvsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1641&context=theses

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>(((SilencerCo))) shills constantly talk about how this will be great for officers, concealed carry and home defense use
>Most officers never even fire their hand gun in the course of duty
>Want them to have a massive fucking gun that takes half an hour to draw when they actually have to use it
>any officers who will be using weapons in predictable scenarios have time to put on their earpro

>similarly think carry a cocealed weapon the size of a 1997 IBM Thinkpad is conducive for "concealed" and "easily accessible when I need it"

>any of the people who want to use this thing for home defense have quite literally no reason for not already using an aftermarket suppressor

>only reason SilencerCo makes this is because once HPA passes they realize they can't make a profit off of selling hollow tubes at a premium price

ShillencerCo fags BTFO

>>33754646
FINALLY, IT'S ALMOST 2020 BOYS GET THIS SHIT OUT THERE.

MORE OF THIS SHIT.

>>33762627

That was just the prototype, right?

The locking mechanism is nothing like the M&P anymore. It also takes Glock mags now.

>>33765778

It's significantly shorter than adding a suppressor to your full-length pistol, and it has more mass in the front but the extra bulk doesn't extend the existing dimensions.

So it's barely larger than a regular handgun and yet it can shoot +P+ without fucking up your hearing.

> that takes half an hour to draw

[[REACHING]]

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>>33757713
>front sight is on the removable suppressor

>>33754667
they are sexy as fuck

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>>33754646
>no one posted the commercial
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX0wl9L17s8

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>>33754646
does it need to be dissembled for cleaning ?

>>33767624
>without fucking up your hearing.
It's already been proven in this thread it's loud as fuck, and it's not "hearing safe"

If you are shooting the Maxim 9 without ear pro at the range you are quite literally fucking retarded.

>>33754975
>you don't need
>need

Son...

>>33767960
>at the range
those two posts were specifically talking about carrying the gun, not the range

>>33768362
Do we have to go down this rabbit hole again why your CCW shouldn't be the size of the Battleship Yamato, and the one in a million chance you get into a defensive gun use and save the losing of like 0.05% of your hearing to save your life... Is not worth having a gun that will do the job of saving your life faster and easier

>>33768465
then you shoulda told them that instead of failing to read the posts

>>33768465
>to go down this rabbit hole again why your CCW shouldn't be the size of the Battleship Yamato, and the one in a million chance you get into a defensive gun use and save the losing of like 0.05% of your hearing to save your life... Is not worth having a gun that will do the job of saving your life faster and easier

If the laws weren't retarded you could have an internally suppressed handgun that isn't that much significantly heavier or larger that wouldn't fuck up your hearing.

>>33768475
But I have on this thread, numerous times. It's a bad defensive use gun

>>33768476
Unless you can show me a gun that won't be the size of the tube TV my dad used in the 80's, sure.

>>33768487
https://newweaponsandmore.blogspot.com/2015/09/maxim-9-silencerco-integrally.html

>>33768499
>weapons huge making it piss poor for CCW
>not even hearing safe in the fucklong configuration

Thanks for the link but I'll need something not shit to switch off the P320

>>33754667
what anime is this from?

>>33754646
Well the idea is neat in all for science fiction. Very few situations in reality would ever be considered necessary. One of the best things about the silencer is that it can be removed. You don't have to have the extra weight at the end of the barrel if you don't want it.

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If they made one in 45 acp for natively subsonic ammunition, and made it out of titanium, wouldn't the weight be manageable?

And isn't the point of joining the suppressor to allow for more baffles or volume on the underside, making for a shorter suppressor of equal volume?

If those two were the case, it would probably cost 2500, but I would buy it and carry it, because I hate the idea of losing a good part of my hearing over firing off a few mags at some ethnic loser.

>>33768476

How do you know that you only lose .05 percent of hearing firing a gun off indoors with no earpro? Seems like you pulled that one outta somewhere

>>33755037

I have to admit it sucks what is available right now as far as info. The only guys who have handled them are obvious shills. I want a head to head test against another supressor using sub and supersonic ammo, in short and long configuration, up against a decibel meter.

>>33757597
titanium and inconel baffles for one thing

>>33765778
How would one find dimensions for the Glock rear sight dovetail anyway?

>>33769252
Psyco Pass

>>33754667

Good, I'm not the only one who thinks of this every time.