backpacks

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>>33750856
i take a lot of day hikes & use a medium alice regularly.
i kinda like that the bags & pouch closures are very simple...encourages modifications
not the most streamlined things, though

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>>33751014
i recently picked up a large bag & havent put it to use yet

oh, and apparently "Doc Dixon" had this bag at some point

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I have the alice pack us army manual...anyone want me to post it?

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I'll just go ahead and do it.

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3/21

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>>33751100
yeah do it

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fuck that shit. This is taking too long.
it's posted on here: http://alice-pack.tumblr.com/

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I was issued one of those huge SOG "bug out bags" for a deployment 3 years ago and use it all the time. Still solid.

>>33751253
Looks pretty plasticy. What company is it from?

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>>33750856
>>33750871
>>33751014
>>33751057

You just draw attention with military stuff like that. I rather just have a sports-bag that you can also use as a backpack.

What goes in all the loops?

>>33751264
i prefer frame packs for hiking. even short hikes
..and its od
od is cool

i use other generic backpacks for daily stuff

I use a 10 year old Jansport that I also used in high school.

>>33751328
are you referring to the grommets or the fabric loops?

>>33751262
Sandpiper of California

>>33751262
>>33751390
http://survivalathome.com/soc-5016-bug-out-bag-review/

>>33751357
Fabric.
Are those for holding loose ammo?

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LBT 1476 is the best backpack I've ever used.

Weight distribution is perfect, and it's pretty waterproof too.

>>33751264
What's the problem with drawing attention to military stuff?

>>33751451
yeah
hold-all pouches
canteen pouches
etc

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>>33751451
>>33751497
yeah the metal clips on the canteen pouch in my palm interface with the loops my fingers are through

>>33751591
>>33751497
So what would be the stupid but useful things, like IR strobes, and the tacticool, like a personal hedgehog to ensure your spot in line that would go there alonside pouches?

>>33751615
hah what

>>33751470
more pics?

The Army Mid-Ruck is amazing, but Eberlestock's Terminator is probably my favorite.

O S P R E Y
S
P
R
E
Y

top tier hiking packs desu senpai.

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>>33752792
>mfw
>even though these retards still insist on inferior milsurp shit

Can you use the ALICE backpack with the ALICE LC-2 harness?
This probably sounds fucking retarded but I saw it on the models for the HECU soldiers in Half Life and thought it was nifty, plus I already have an LC-2 harness and was interested in getting an ALICE backpack

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Rush 12 reporting in. It's my fave because it's what I use the most. I use it both Innacollege and Innawoods, fits my 14" ThinkPad, Glawk and extra mags and just enough gear without being too big or heavy. obviously not meant for long hikes but I love it. Also 1050 Denier Nylon is fucking nice, this bag will probably outlive me.

>>33751236
Thanks Anon

>>33754490
Inferior in terms of comfort.
ALICE is nice since it so damn durable and cheap. Obviously not a good long distance hiking backpack, but good for bushcraft and short hikes.
That being said I have hauled 8 miles with 40 lbs and it felt good. Then again, I do have MOLLE shoulder straps/waist belt, so it's not a true ALICE.

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>>33751470
I have one, haven't used it much though.

>>33754730
I have a medium ALICE with MOLLE straps and hipbelts with a sleep system carrier attached and I've probably done about 1000 miles in the wilderness with it, and it did its job petty well.

However my REI-brand metal hybrid-frame BTFOs it in every single sense other than raw durability, as you said.

Even then the REI pack is completely adequate durability-wise provided you're not throwing it out of a helicopter at speed and altitude.

>>33752790

midruck is durable, eberle shit is more comfortable and well ventilated with plenty of foamy and mesh stuff for those balls deep in magma days

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>>33755409

ye

>>33755325
Can you post a picture of an Alice with MOLLE?

>>33751470
Oh so that's who makes that backpack that everyone else rips off.

>>33755574
He said MOLLE straps and belts. It's commonly known as the "hellcat" build for some reason.
http://libertytreeblogs.blogspot.com/2011/04/building-hellcat-hybrid-ruck-from-us.html

>>33751264
>You just draw attention with military stuff like that
t. Retard
If you live in any /k/ friendly area, military surplus or "tactical" looking bags are super common with everyone, even the anti-gun hippies, because they work.

>>33752792
I got a Kelty Redwing because I'm a poorfag.

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>TFW you have an Austrian Alice backpack and hate it

I want something modern.

What really are the types of backpack one would need?

Is there like a short term and a long term ruck, or just a standard "ruck" and a standard "assault?"

What typically goes in a pack? Just like food and sleep system, and camping gear and whatever other equipment you have to have on you?

What goes in an assault pack? You don't really need any sustainment in an assault load right, and all your like IFAK and ammo and everything would be on your chest Or belt so is an assault pack really just for water?

>>33755624
Thanks for the link. Really interesting mod.

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What do you guys think about Sling bags? Always wanted one since The Division, but all I find are these cheap china ones and the overpriced 5.11 stuff. Does anyone know a Sling Bag that's worth the money? i.e. half the price of a good backpack since it's basically just half a backpack...

>>33751264

i only agree with this statement because i am a veteran about to attend college in a liberal state, and i have neither the time nor the inclination to give two halfs of a bengal tiger's cock about their political indifference to the state of affairs regarding the misuse of military personnel overseas

a backpack with stupid army shit all over it while used in such an environment believe it or not, becomes a centerpiece of discussion that may lead to questions about your personal life

you can be social, and tell your story, and take their bullshit liberal opinion with a grain of salt or you can simply tell them to blow a beluga whale's cock and to suck your ass, motherfucking america, kill babies, fuck goat farmers, blow up the sand pit and praise Jesus

>>33755772
I go to school in Missouri. Literally no one questions or thinks twice about what kind of backpack you have. At least half the students here have some kind of "tactical" or camouflage hunting or military surplus backpack.

But of course I go to an engineering college, but it's mostly like that even in high schools and other colleges. For the most part it's entirely normal and not weird in the slightest to be covered in army shit. But then again this is a red state with several military bases and most of the schools have large ROTC programs.

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>>33755822
>I go to school in Missouri. Literally no one questions or thinks twice about what kind of backpack you have.

That means you go to school for normal human beings, good for you, son.

>>33751264
>You just draw attention
You're a special kind of faget, aren't you.

Where I'm from, nobody gives a flying fuck what kind of backpack you have, other that some are better/more practical and people sometimes talk about it.
When I was a kid "kostka" (cube), post-communist military backpacks ware very popular, they still are, 25 years ago...

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>>33755755
I hiked South Sister in OR in one and it was miserable. My neck and shoulders were in agony. Probably be fine for day hikes or casual use.

Anyway, here's my favorite pack. German Alpine Ruck. Simple, roomy, waterproof and it doesn't look too militant, so I can wear to the office.

>>33755862
I don't know but that kostka thing looks disgusting. My shoulders scream in pain while looking at it. Is this some East German thing?

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>>33755889
Hi, German here. Good choice for a backpack. Here's something that could interest you since it's similar to our Alpine Backpack but way better : the Swiss pioneer backpack (Schweizer Pionierrucksack). Costs around 50€ and lasts a lifetime.

jeez... A thread with good information on /k/?

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>>33755755
I never liked the look of them. I feel like that single strap would get in the way more than anything especially with it's thickness and diagonal path. It would be more of a hindrance than the shoulder straps and possible waist belt of a normal backpack, especially if worn with a chest rig setup, and a shooter bag, while smaller and with less even weight distribution, would still be more practical to use.

>>33755692

>>33755325 >>33754490 Here
To me the "essentials" are
>Daypack
Something lightweight that can carry a day's supplies and water, with decent ventilation and weight distribution. I prefer having a daypack that's capable of overnighting with (mine is 30L but cinches down really well).

>Something in the 45-55L range
For a few days-a week. This will be the pack you use for almost everything.

>Something in the 65-85L range
This shit is for expeditions (a week+ out, that kind of thing) or winter shit. 85L is fucking huge but my 85 actually tightens down really small and retains good distribution cinched down. I've probably used its full capacity once and that was in late fall doing 12 days in the wilderness when it was cold enough I was breaking ice getting out of my tent in the morning.

Again, milsurp a shit compared to modern camping shit outside of durability and price but your back and knees WILL thank you for saving up a little more. Also MOLLE = pussy repellent in almost all situations, especially out of the woods.

>>33755897
Nah, Polish, but all soviet block countries had something similar, it's based on WW1 designs I think. It's pretty small, size of a buttpack, it's actually very comfortable & practical.

I'll post a picture of a czechoslovakian mountain backpack in an hour, I bought it recently,tested innawoods this month, and it's supprisingly awsome.

>>33756057
>MOLLE = pussy repellent in almost all situations, especially out of the woods.
What did he mean by this?

>>33756057
So is there really such a thing as an "assault pack" or is that tacticool memery? Would you just stick everything on your chest rig/battle belt and not wear your backpack if you're in a combat situation like that, then go pick up your backpack wherever you stashed it once the fight is over?

The standard load for a military patrol pack is a three day sustainment ruck right?

>>33752792
Love my Ospreys/Arcteryx shit. So light, so tough.

>>33755822
Rolla?

>>33756155
Yeah.

>>33756163
I'll be going to MSU this fall, taking the rolla classes through it

>>33755755
I used one for a while in school. Basically functionally identical to a messenger bag with the same exact downsides.

The primary one being it distributes weight like shit and is much harder on one shoulder than the other

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got pic related pretty recently. its fucking comfy as hell
i r8 8/8

>>33756127
"Assault pack" = tacticool sperglord speak for "3-day pack"

Which I would put at 30-45L depending on how light you want to run.

>>33755755
Check out maxpedition, vanquedt or hazard 4.

The downside to sling packs is you are putting the entire weight of your pack on one shoulder as opposed to sharing the weight across both and maybe a hip belt.

That leads to quicker fatigue and pain in one shoulder. As cool as they look, they should be kept light and small or use a real backpack.

>>33755889
>so I can wear to the office.
What the fuck is wrong with you westerners! Seriously!
It's a problem now, if someone takes a military-looking backpack to work/school?
Jesus Christ!

I did hear stories from people who moved to UK or Norway, about people getting batshit crazy if they see you using a tiniest pocket knife to put butter on.

>>33756254
It's not that. It's that I work in an office and don't want to roll into work with a tactical ruck covered in molle.

No one really gives a shit if you have some modern milsurp pack. The people you usually see wearing them are vets or homeless people. Or homeless vets.

>>33750856
I only own an alice pack w/ frame but it's size large and FUCKING HUGE. So it's a big floppy mess if it's not filled to the brim. I'd get a medium but I don't go camping.

>>33756216
So you really need a 30-45 l, 45-55 l,
and a 65-85 l for light/short trips, longer expeditions and extrended trips respectively?

Is that pretty much correct what I said about an "assault pack" really just being used for the hiking and it's better to throw it off and stash it somewhere if actual combat comes up?

Do soldiers hike around wearing their chest rigs all the time or do they take stuff off and store it in the bags if they're going to be mobile for extended periods?

>>33756254
It's not a problem in the sense that someone will call the cops on you or some shit.

But you WILL look like a try-hard sperg/unprofessional if you roll into work with a 40L OD pack covered in MOLLE, depending on what you do. And it's overkill/inappropriate for 90% of the people who would use it in that capacity.

>>33756398
30L is a big day pack
45L is a small 3-day pack

As for what soldiers do when shit pops off, I dunno son I'm a fucking wilderness ranger. But QD straps are a thing for a reason. On patrols in full kit I assume combat essentials are kept in chest rigs/plate carriers.

Something in the 30-45 range wouldn't get in the way too much if you needed to move quickly though.

>>33756467
>Something in the 30-45 range wouldn't get in the way too much if you needed to move quickly though.
How big is that really? I don't know too much about backpacks I'll admit but that really seems like it would be a ton of bulk and weight hanging off your back while trying to maneuver.
What kind of sizes are we even talking about here? Because even 30 liters seems a bit large.

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>>33756547
This is my daypack photoshopped onto a stock model for scale.

30 is big for a school bag or something but if you're trying to overnight then a lot of that space goes to sleep system/shelter, rain gear/warm layer, food and water.

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>>33756350
You're right about the big floppy mess. Here's what I did: buy a bucket from a home improvement center.. They're usually used to mix cement in them, mine has around 45 liters of volume and it fits nicely in the backpack. I also bought compartments to separate things and another pro is that you can use it as a bucket innawoods. Here's a reference picture.

whats the biggest liter size that still fits as carry on? doesnt have to be exact just a rough idea. whats better internal or external frames?

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I've been using an Eddie Bauer Trailhead day pack for the better part of a decade. Thinking about picking up a 5.11 All Hazards Prime since a local store has them for $140

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Can anyone pls tell me what are those extra things on Swiss M90 mountain backpack for?

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>>33756761
Look like detatched load lifters to me bro.

>>33756791
I thought so too, but I don't see where to attach them...

>>33756761
These are just loops to tuck the long cord into. Source: I have one.

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>>33756816
I'd guess those hooks might attach to the loops on top?

>>33756833
Hm, I know what you mean, but I don't really see how.... They look pretty useless...

>>33756761
Probably to hang the pack on a thin rope while climbing? Or to hang it in the locker?

>>33757175
This guy uses it for holding with hands...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh9KL9ZDEEA

>>33755755
I've been using an Orvis sling pack as a smaller/lighter alternative to a fly vest for a few years now and it's perfect for daytrips. I love being able to swing it around, tie on a new fly or whatever, and swing it back out of the way without taking it off or juggling my rod & reel. Less cumbersome than a vest or backpack if all you need is a few things.

I think you want to keep them light, as has been said. Large sling bags are super stupid. Main advantage I've seen over a messenger bag is that they do a better job of staying out of the way. Picked up a Maxpedition Malaga to try as a dedicated bass / small game bag that I can just grab on the way out the door, which it seems a touch big for but not inappropriately so. Haven't gotten to really play with it yet but it seems like it'll do exactly what my fly pack does.

The water bottle carrier and side pouch I added to it for Cool Guy Points, though... they make it wide as fuck. They might get removed.

I had wanted a Lunada originally (which is the next size down) but they are apparently discontinued and I had trouble finding one in the color I wanted.

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>>33756723
>Thinking about picking up a 5.11 All Hazards Prime since a local store has them for $140

IMO just buy an Osprey or Kelty day pack for like 50-80 dollars. Save yourself 60 dollars from MOLLE that you'll never use and tacticool branding that makes you look a little goofy unless you're fully decked out in gear. I know the tacticool is tempting, and I fell under its spell for a long time. Now I just use a Northface backpack I got from their outlet store for 30 dollars. If your Eddie Bauer (great brand) has lasted you almost a decade, your life probably isn't intense enough to need something as durable as a 5.11 pack. I don't mean that as an insult, I don't think anyone but actual operators sliding off the side of mountains need something as durable as a 5.11 pack. The fabric is super thick and unnecessarily heavy, and you don't need to sacrifice weight for durability for day hikes/getting around town doing your errands and work.

>>33751264
>muh draw attention

bitch learn how to evade detection in the first place.

>hey guys just walking down the street with my gym bag during the happening
>dont look twice im just going to the gym

>>33757936
>makes you look a little goofy

Not the guy you were talking to but, literally no one other than pretentious hipster faggots give a shit whether your backpack has webbing on it. So in that case, why not buy a backpack with superior build quality and function instead of worrying about being "fashionable?" I mean if you wanna fit in with all the Le Herschel supply company xD faggots then okay, go buy that shit but there are much better packs out there

>>33758839
>Superior Build Quality
Osprey absolutely BTFOs 5.11 and won't make you look like a complete tryhard you sperg.

Suit your fucking gear to your needs.
Why do people here struggle with this so much?

>>33758224
going to the gym is what normies do autist

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Is there a modern equivalent to the ALICE frame's cargo shelf?

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>>33751470
>>33755146
My niggas

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Don't know if this is the best thread for it but what would you do with an alice belt to make it sustainable for at least a week?

Is the alice buttpack good and mind you that this will be a gun belt as a base with some cheapo pistol and respective ammo.

Should sustaining gear be separate from fighting gear?

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>>33755889
I'm between Telemark and your Alpine ruck. Does anyone have experience with both and have a preference? The Telemark has a frame and is only about ten bucks more expensive which is why I'm considering it.

>>33759087
Eberlestock Skycrane or Mainframe, Mystery Ranch Overload or Comm3.

>>33758942
I didn't say 5.11 is the best. But there's nothing wrong with their bags either. What I'm trying to say is stop being such a paranoid bitch about whether you'll be "accepted" in public and fit in with all the other little faggots. Literally no one gives a shit what your fucking backpack looks like unless it has a fucking naked Loli on it or some shit

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Savotta LJK. Carried on during my service and it was fantastic. I'll buy one of these some day.

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>>33759275
Remove the metal clips from the suspenders, 550 the suspenders to your mag pouch rings/buttpack. Loosen the pistol belt to the maximum length, tighten the suspenders to bring the belt at least above your pants belt. Buttpack(stripped MRE's, poncho), 2x1qts(canteens tied off), 4x3 mag pouch, map case(tied off). Tie all of it off with 550/zipties and remove the ALICE clips, they WILL fuck you up if you don't. Drop leg attached to pistol belt with only one leg strap.

Source: Picture related.

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>>33759430
2x compass pouch, with compass tied off*

>>33757936
I want the 5.11 so I can put my mag pouches and rifle scabbard on the molle webbing. I'm still going to use the Eddie Bauer the most, but I want something bigger occasionally.

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I kept my old 82 pattern ruck from bmq, even though there's better packs out there. I did try out a Molle II pack I was going to switch to civvie side, but even empty the damn thing is heavy as shit, though I guess that's the trade off for the ripstop nylon.

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>>33754730
>8 miles with 40 lbs
>hey candidate, let's weigh that ruck.
kek

I've regularly carried ~80+lbs ALICE and MOLLE rucks further than normal can probably even walk without falling out. And have lived for weeks and months out of both.

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>>33759328
The mainframe seems alright, the rest are super expensive looking, though you do get a lot with the Skycrane.

The Mainframe does seem the most comparable to the ALICE frames and shelves though.

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>>33759531
And that one time I jumped a 119lb ruck.

>>33759347
Anon you've always been pretty cool.
Don't come to school tomorrow ok?

PROTIP: How you present yourself to the world determines how that world reacts to you. There are tons of situations where a bag covered in MOLLE will have unfavorable outcomes or connotations or just plain not be optimal.
I realize that movies told you "not giving a shit ever" is the secret to success or some shit but that only takes you so far and if you rocking a 40L MOLLE pack into work everyday makes your boss decide you're a giant faggot that can't differentiate what behaviors are appropriate in certain environments you aren't going to go very far at that job are you?

So, when you have an option that's:
>Better-made
>More appropriate in a wider variety of situations
>Often less expensive
You are in fact a retard for picking the shittier option because you "don't care," because your autism has prevented you from understanding the correlation between the way you present yourself and the way people treat you.

>>33759551
Yeah pretty much everything Eberle or MR sells is expensive. They are very definitely worth it though.

>>33759347
the people i know who own them are sad, sad human beings.

so if i see a stranger with one i wonder if they are also a sad human being first, because that's the type of person i associate them with.

What typically goes in a daypack vs a three day ruck? I dont really know much about these sort of things, but i really want to learn.

What is the typical kind of equipment you should carry for innawoodsing.

>>33759782
>What is the typical kind of equipment you should carry for innawoodsing
Three most basic things:
>Knife
>Matches
>Compass
Never forget these.

>>33759782
Depends on how long you're out, but some of the "always goes with you" shit is
>2 ways to start a fire
>water and the ability to filter/purify more water
>some form of (at least emergency) shelter, be it a tent/hammock/tarp or just an emergency blanket
>change of undies
>change of socks
>small amount of food (shit like a powerbar/granola bar), because while you CAN survive for a week+ with no food, if you're in an oh-shit scenario it can provide the needed energy to get you out or just be a plain ol' morale booster/calmer so you don't panic and do something dumb
>some length of cordage, whether it's a small hank of 55 cord or an actual rope is up to you
>map and compass (and obviously the know-how to use them), because the only thing shittier than getting lost is staying lost

Now if you're willing to spend the money for actual good shit, all of these "necessities" other than the water should fit in a cargo pocket on a pair of pants. It doesn't take up a lot of room, and other than the water it doesn't weigh very much. This leaves the majority of your pack free for all the shit dictated by climate and length of time.

>>33759866
You should always have a pocket knife in your pants and thus minimize the need to carry a second or larger knife in your pack.

I would replace matches with a quality butane lighter (Bic or equivalent), simply because of how picky matches are on when they'll light and stay lit.

>>33759782
Daypack = "literally always" shit.
>food
>water
>rain gear
>warm layers
>gear incidentals for the day/area
This is navigational tools (map+compass), other tools (a brushing saw and hatchet are musts if you're innawilderness for example, particularly this time of year where trees have been dropping all winter).

3-Day pack = all of the above plus more food, water purification (or just haul more water if you don't have access to springs/rivers or are a giant retard that likes to haul around a bunch of extra weight), and shelter/sleep system, stove/fuel, that kind of thing.

If you're doing a rooty-tooty-point-and-shooty obviously a rifle and ammo also factor in. IE when hunting I'm always packing water, food, raing gear, layers of insulation and a brushing saw plus the rifle and ammo.

As I said above I like to pick packs that are on the upper range of a given use that cinch down well when not full so you don't have a floppy sack of poorly-distributed bullshit hanging off you. This is nice because I can do an overnight in a daypack should I need to without going up to my 3-day which is bigger thab it needs to be for a single night /out/.

>>33759902
Fixed blades >>>>>>>>>>>>>> folding knives though I do support your overall "always carry a knife sentiment.

>>33759934
Oh absolutely, but they are also situational and not something that falls under the "literally always" category as >>33759920
put it.

>>33759902
Sure but whenever I go into a forest, I take a puukko with me. I keep it on my belt and not in my pack. A dedicated knife is most likely better than a pocket knife.

In my experience matches are more reliable, especially during winter. I keep them in a film can to keep them dry. In any case you should have some way to make fire with you.

>>33751390

I've bought these at the BX before to lug powerpoint ranger gear (binders and a laptop) around. Blew out two of them at the drag handle. They were good about fixing them. But they never made it to the field.

>>33751470

This is the best I've used so far. Bought several for me and family, none have failed. I like the inserts with the MOLLE to make organizers.

>>33760073
And I have no forests to go into because I live in a goddamn desert with very little I could conceivably cut with any knife. Hence why they're SITUATIONAL. You are in a situation where you need one. I am not, a pocket knife fulfills all my needs (which basically come down to opening shit I brought with me and digging out insect stingers).

I take a fixed-blade knife with me when I make the 3.5 hour drive to the nearest forest though. Again, situational. Just like cold/wet weather gear. I pretty much never need it and only bother taking it with me like 3 weeks a month when it drops to 50* and rains occasionally. The rest of the time it's hot enough that even if it did piss down copious amounts of rain it would pose no danger to me as long as I'm smart enough to avoid the flash-flood-prone arroyos, and hot enough that I'd sweat enough I wouldn't really be any dryer in the rainwear than out of it.

>>33760200
Oh yeah. I sometimes forget that most people don't live in a boreal forest. In Finland we only have one biome, so it tends to have a strong bias on how we view outdoor life.

>>33754548
I'd assume you could considering there's pictures of it in the thread, though I'd assume it'd be pretty uncomfortable

>>33750856
Dana Design Astral Plane for major trips.
Osprey Exos 48 for most others.

>>33759605
Holy fucking shit how fucking insecure can you be?

Don't forget to buy the Le new Herschel supply backpack and the Le new Le MacBook Pro with Le touchbar and iPhone so you can be one of the cool kids Le xD!!!!!

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>>33755755
I love them. I have really broad, deep shoulders, and most every conventional backpack I try fits poorly.

Got a Maxpedition Monsoon lightly used on Ebay a little over a year ago. Love it to death.

>>33756189
>>33756242
>imbalanced wear on one shoulder
I brought it on an 18-mile backpacking trip a couple weeks back. It gave me no trouble whatsoever. The strap is so wide that the weight is distributed very gently over a large area, and didn’t “dig-in” or get sore.

Maxpedition also sells these Velcro insert holsters that let you hold a pistol in the pocket closest to your body.
I can easily get 3-second draw times without taking off the pack with my Jericho.

>>33759664
Oh really? Sad in what way anon? Please tell us how owning a certain type of backpack affects your mental well being

>>33759605
Oh look.....it's the typical condescending hipster faggot who thinks he has everything figured out.

>hey everybody, anon here. I'm just soooooo normal and perfectly adjusted to the world and I think I'm better than you because I don't use this bag and so that means my boss won't fire me and fitting in and not being yourself is the key to success in life.

This is you anon. This is how retarded you sound

>>33761402
Not that guy but you do understand the difference between causation and correlation, right?

>>33761474
Okay I'll bite. What the actual fuck are you talking about?

>>33761486
Correlation would be
>hey this group of depressed people all have X in common
Causation would be
>hey X causes this group of people to be depressed.

They are frequently incorrectly associated with each other. Such as
>hey this group of depressed people have X in common, thus X must be causing the depression
In the absence of any evidence either way.

Another example
>correlation
Everybody who dies breathed oxygen at least once
>incorrect causation
Everybody who dies breathed oxygen at least once, therefor the oxygen must've been what killed them!

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>>33759866
>>33759892
>>33759920
So like
Daypack load:
>matches/lighter/flint and striker
>gruntroll or two (pic related)
>fleece jacket/sweater, wool cap, gloves
>softshell jacket
>pancho/half shelter
>casualty blanket
>paracord (like what, would 100 feet be good?)
>lifestraw or something
>knife, multitool, folding saw
>canteen
>some foodstuffs (like a few granola bars or like an MRE or some Mountain House shit I guess)

Then add an actual shelter instead of just planning to use a pancho and an emergency blanket to live in if things go wrong, sleeping bag, more food, a mess kit and a stove to a multi-day pack?

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https://www.thenorthface.com/shop/surge-transit-backpack-nf0a2zcp?variationId=JZL

I'm thinking of getting one of these, do they look like an alright pack for a simple daypack?

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Anyone got experience with the Wisports packs? I was thinking about picking up their 20 Litre one as a patrol/ day pack.

>>33762165
Pretty much. Don't forget the navigation tools. Personally I'd maybe cut the poncho or the blanket to save some space (after all, this is only a daypack and either of them alone should provide enough shelter in an emergency) and switch the canteen to a hydration pack. I also prefer an axe over a saw. Maybe add a flashlight too.

So add navigation tools and some light and you're in pretty good shape. Try different gear on your trips and see what works best for you.

>>33750856
I use a east german rain camo backpack for day hikes. Thing packs a surprising amount and it's all waterproof.Also if shtf, I can technically use it and the suspenders as a web rig. For extended trips I use a Kelty Redwing 44 pack. Been thinking of getting something bigger for week trips if the time comes. I've thought about alice but I need lighter stuff offered by civvies or some other militaries since my back got fucked from rucking in the Army.
>>33751253
I got one of these when they were still bugout gear. Survived so much. Only thing I wish was that it had a frame and was more breathable.

>>33759494
The 5.11 should do well for that

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>>33762534
It's not like the blanket takes up much space at all and the pack I'm looking at is like 38 liters.
I mean, pic related is 52"x84"

>>33762534
Garbage bags and creative cutting = poncho. No rain? Hey you got an extra garbage bag.

>>33762602
Oh. My only blanket needs like three people to carry it. Didn't know there were small ones, because I haven't found it useful. Go for it then. The pack itself may be a little large. My pack is 30 liters and it sometimes feels too big.

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Does any non-Finnish here own a Savotta backpack?

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>>33762616
I'm talking about a shelter-half/poncho, not a disposable poncho, pic related.
It's more like a light tarp that happens to be wearable.

>>33762645
It really doesn't seem that large, I'm looking at >>33762314 and it just looks like a decent size for a pack.

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>>33762689
>>33762645
Like unless this model is really big, the pack looks a nice size.

>>33762731
There's no way that backpack is 38 liters.

Don't know anything about their quality. Probably works, if you don't abuse it much. The design doesn't appeal to me.

>>33762791
Everything I find about it says 38 liters, or like 2319 cubic inches, which is 38 liters.

What backpack do you use?

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>>33762840
Savotta Jääkäri and it looks bigger than that.
http://finn-savotta.fi/en/tuotteet/jaakari-backpack/

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Recently picked up one of these and so far it's been great.
Especially considering how much usage I get out of it (95% travel for my job).

>>33762645
>My only blanket needs like three people to carry it
What the actual fuck do you have?

>>33751470
>>33751470
What color is that? Looks like the Ranger Green to me

>>33763194
No idea. My dad gave it to me. It's about the size of an average laptop when folded and not exactly light . It's probably somehow related to civil defence.

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>>33762314
Would you look like a tool if you did this to one of those packs?

I like having my name tape on my shit, and I have a nice canteen in a MOLLE holder I could be able to stick on the front if this thing had webbing.

>>33763415
Why not just buy a pack that has Velcro and PALS?

>>33763537
Because I like the layout of that backpack, and I only need two rungs of PALs for my canteen.

>>33763608
But there are backpacks with similar layout.

>>33763623
Such as?

>>33763703
Source Patrol and Eberlestock Tactical Little Trick come to mind first. Not the same but similar. I can also recommend the Savotta Jääkäri.

>>33763703
Not the guy you were talking to but get a Rush 24 or something similar to your tastes. Adding that shit onto the Surge will be more trouble than it's worth. Also, imo, The North Face is kinda hipster faggot tier from what I see around campus. I've also checked their stuff out in store and it feels pretty cheap for the price. Good luck anon

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>>33763791
>source patrol
>$225
>Eberlestock Tactical Little Trick
>$229
>>33763828
>more trouble than it's worth
It's really not any trouble at all to sew things on to the outside pockets of a backpack, those particular pockets I'd be sewing on look really easy to get a sewing machine into also.

I do like the look and color of that North Face one, but the Rush 24 isn't too bad looking.

>>33764171
Eh, well if you've got the skills to sew then I guess go for it. But still, you'll realize the fabric on the North face isn't as crazy strong as the 1050 denier on the 5.11 and other better built bags

And yeah the 24 is nice, sometimes I wish I had gotten that instead of the 12

>>33764171
The price shouldn't be an issue. There's no point in buying a cheap backpack and then a good one. If you buy the good one first, you don't have to buy the cheap one. That's called saving money.

>>33763608
why would you want your canteen awkwardly hanging off the back of your pack? you're going to take your pack off to get to it anyways, why not keep one of your heaviest items inside your pack?

>>33764265
>why would you want your canteen awkwardly hanging off the back of your pack?
Probably to learn things the hard way.

>>33764249
There's no point in buying an overpriced backpack when the cheaper one is of the same quality.

>>33764383
Sure but that's not the case here.

>>33764396
Prove that the Source Patrol and Little Trick are worth $100 more than a Rush 24

I'll wait.

>>33761306
what a coincidence, got my eyes on the moonsoon for the weird design to be honest but also because most of military sling bags looks way too perceptive to the eyes (molle everywhere)
can you arrange the strap so that the lower part of the bag doesn't bump your ass? i was looking for reviews and mostly it just seems people let it drop rather low, hitting their butts.

i'm just thinking of using it mostly for work, lunchbox, water bottle, clothes, electronics and some more gear.
at first i thought a sling bag might not be the best for your shoulders but then i remembered even with dual strap bags i just hold both straps over my shoulder so it doesn't make any difference to me, only that i never had experience with sling bags at all.

>>33764265
>awkwardly hanging off
I can't imagine it being that awkward, it's not a thick backpack, and the canteen isn't that heavy, I walk around with my canteen clipped to my belt loop with a carabiner sometimes.

And you definetly would not have to take the backpack off to get to the canteen unless you're a stubby armed manlet.

>>33763415
why not just stick a piece of tape on their with your name in sharpie?

>>33764507
Embroidered name tapes look nicer and I already have one.

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>>33750856
I was a big fan of the ILBE salt pack until I tried out the Army variety. Ugly as duck shit, very comfy and wonderfully thought out, pockets for everything.

I just wish I knew what the single strip of webbing across the top is for. Not even milfags seem to know.

>>33764442
I was talking about the North Face but let's see.

Eberlestock has more padding for your back, height adjustment for the shoulder straps and two dedicated gun compartments (one for a pistol and one for a carbine).

Source is definitely worth the money. It comes with a hydration bladder, more padding for your back, waist strap and an aluminum spine bar. Here it's only 185€, so the price difference is quite small.

Both also look much nicer but that's subjective.

So both should be more comfortable to carry, at least on paper and that alone is worth the price difference in my opinion. Source also has some additional features that I think make it superior to the Rush 24.

>>33764706
I used to velcro strap shit to it like TQs, water bottle holder, bag for quick tactical access snacks, shit like that. I've seen units where they have velcro sewn the the molle stip for name tapes.

>>33762791
It's at least close. Your average school bookbag is 30-35 liters.

>>33763608
That pack has two water bottle pockets already. Fucking use them.

Ditch the flag patch and sew your nametape to the drag handle like a non-autistic person.

>>33764750
/scribbles note

So the water bottle holder just sits on top sideways...?

Do the sustainment pouches fit on the sides? That's usually where I put all my TP when I was carrying my ILBE. I love my new truck bag, but I haven't gone wilderness camping with it yet.

>>33764706
This. I use mine for all kinds of shit, right now it's got water and loaded mags for running with weight.

>>33764706
>pockets for everything
whaaa?

Mine literally has 2 pockets: the main bag, and the front accessory pocket. I know later revisions put a zipper closure on the front pocket and a tiny/useless little velcro flap pocket on the inside of the lid of the accessory pocket that might hold like a single pen, but that's still hardly "pockets for everything"

That single strip of webbing and all the bullshit webbing tucked in behind the framesheet is to facilitate rigging it for a lowering line during parachute operations.

>>33765070
Yes, the MOLLE2 sustainment pouches fit quite nicely on the side. There's even room for a single mag pouch on each side with them.

Alternatively you can run sustainment on one side and your 2qt canteen and E-tool on the other, or my favorite being the E-tool lower right, 2qt lower left, and a pair of SAW drum pouches on the upper halves of each side.

>>33763415
Honestly, I'd probably think you were a douche if you were just walking around town in that. In a camping/hiking scenario I'd say that flys.

>>33765078
Mine's got the velcro pocket, a zippered one behind it with ANOTHER velcro pocket in it (which is where I put my books -- fuck getting my books wet or dirty), and the main compartment with a divider so you can put your water bag-thing in, whateverthefuck the proper name is for it, and run the tube out through either velcro epaulet.

>>33765097
Cool beans. Thanks. Like I said, I haven't been innawoods for any real amount of time yet, just hunting trips and overnighters. I'm still figuring out what I can do with the bugger.

>>33765223
Jesus, that is a fair number of pockets. I don't know why but I just kind of assumed there hadn't been that many revisions even though I know the MOLLE2 system has had like 20 of them as a whole.

>>33765304
I had no idea they differed in anything but the camo scheme and the color of the buckles, and that black buckles meant Gen1 and you should kinda avoid that one. Mine looks exactly like the pic I posted. And it's the only thing I like better than the ILBE assault pack.

Is there any way to tell?

>>33751253
Love mine, with the only downside being the fabric being too long and getting caught in the zippers.

>>33764171
Can you fit a laptop in the hydration pouch on the Rush 24?

>>33765368
I have no fucking clue how to tell them apart to be honest with you. Unless you got them new-in-wrapper in RFI or something even actually being issued them you were liable to get a grab bag.

>>33764706

this bag does not bring me pleasant memories for my shoulders or back, i feel aches already and heat rashes from south carolina weather

it reminds me of the UCP rucksack as well, which squeaked every ten feet on the plastic frame which was annoying as fuck

how anyone can stand the two when they don't have to actually use it is beyond me, just picturing me wearing it in the summer makes my back itch and sweat

>>33765645
It wasn't great but it served its purpose pretty well.

Add in the fact that most milfags ETS'd with one and they're available for ~$25 through several surplus outlets and they're pretty good for the money.

>>33762541
Thanks. I considered a rush 24 but I like the exterior pouch thing on the all hazards. I want to clarify that this is only the 3rd post I've made in the thread and that the arguing posters are autistic. I'm not going to be using this thing in public.

Anyone have any real-world experience with Special Operations Forces Personal Equipment
Advanced Requirements (SPEAR) ELCS?

I've had a look at it, and for what it is, seems kind of pricey.

https://store.glennsarmysurplus.com/elcs-safariland-spear-molle-complete-subsystem-p882.aspx

>>33751264

>Military stuff like that.

Military stuff is the current meme for fashion now a days. When I was at Fred Meyers earlier today, probably seen at least half a dozen bags that fit that. Specially school fags these days (12th grade and below) usually have them too.

Also see a shit ton of homeless fucks walking around with those surplus ILBE packs too.

>>33755939
no where to be found unfortunately

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>>33751470
>>33755146
>>33759115
Fellow LBT 1476 niggas...

>>33764447
I noticed that as well in the videos and reviews before I got it. I'd find that incredibly annoying too, to have it bouncing off your backside.

To answer your question; yes, I was easily able to tighten the main strap so the bottom of the pack rests in the small of my back, rather than on my buttocks.

However, I’m a tall and broad guy (6’4”), so the pack rests higher on me than most.

I think even someone of average height and build should be able adjust it like you want it, but I can’t be certain.

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>>33751264
>not constantly dressing like the right column of this chart