DOTM drill of the month accuracy general

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>>33727530
Printable B8. Yes it is scaled properly, yes you can print it at home or Staples or wherever, works with copy paper (recommend a target backer so you get clean holes).

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>>33727542
Printable B2. Same shit as B8.

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>>33727552
And the B3

P30l lem guy here. Thanks for making the thread contender guy. I would but I've been at the range all morning and got no appropriate pics

>tfw no sub 5 second F.A.S.T.

WHY AM I GETTING SLOWER

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>>33727844
No prob.

Just because...

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Bump

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It's been like 3 weeks since I contribooted, here's my best target from today.

It's not the highest I've scored, but i'm pretty happy with the grouping. Previous ones had less of a trend.

Do you brace your trigger finger against the opposite hand? I've been doing it to keep my shots horizontally centered, but I'm worried that I'm teaching myself bad habits.

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I've given it my all folks, here's all the runs, my personal best stands at 285, I am content.

So are we doing dot torture next month?

I'm pretty much down for whatever, but I would love for the contributors to give their thoughts.

Just remember it needs to be easy to set up, accessible to ALL skill levels and it needs to be FUN.

Also generally no holster work or movement - that said we can assign penalty values if we do decide on a drill that starts from the holster and the anon cannot comply.

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>>33729696
>Do you brace your trigger finger against the opposite hand?
I'm not sure I understand anon? Can you explain what you're doing a different way?

Had a split shooting day, the early morning FASTs we junk, I'm blaming it on the cold brisk air and my hands being half asleep.

Dropped shots on the other runs too, very very ugly stuff gents.

Took two noobguns africans (no really, like from africa) pistol shooting, they were eager to learn and it was bretty cool. I did get swept a few times, I kept on the about it, but it is what it is.

It's funny how a totally green shooter will go hyper low left every shot doing slowfire, but then you give them six rounds and put them on a timer from the low ready and the shots start printing more or less in the desired area by the 3rd or 4rth shot.

>>33729696
No no fuck no. If you can even touch your support hand with your trigger finger you have way too much finger on the trigger.

The center of the last pad on your index finger should be on the trigger. If you have it past that it's too far.

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>>33731016
The FASTs I ran with the noobguns in tow we pretty slick for me:

5.68 clean
5.15 BARELY pushed two headshots out and BARELY pushed a body shot out (went from riches to rags basically)
5.30 clean (WebM related)

>>33731214
El Presidente, a lil dirty
https://youtu.be/aVyXUWh4jGI

Casino Drill, just a smidge dirty
https://youtu.be/PwWMLfQEbhY

/blog

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>>33727530
>feel free to spam new threads with your previously shot best of (3)
Okay, bump dump commencement

>>33733054
Don't make us count, we iz bad at the maths

>>33733071
Looks like a 291

>>33733095
I concur but COMMON how about some commitment

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>>33733071
Sorry, that's one that I forgot to mark! It's a 291 like he said. I'm choosing that one to submit because it was my first center fire handgun (got it back in 2012)

This is my 2nd submission because it's my EDC

>>33733146
Didn't we agree the whole "only post 3" was off anyway? I think it's a copy pasta hangover, unless you guys feel differently of course.

Hell I posted 12 in one shot....

Spam all your tar-gats, you shot a diverse array of gunz.

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>>33733146
3rd submission, my first handgun, had it for ten years, shot it maybe five times because it's total shit.

>This is my official submission for ranking because it's fucking hilarious

>>33733192
>you shot a diverse array of gunz.
It's kinda my thing, hell, I just put an M1 Garand on layaway so my rifle collection would be a little different.

I'll save the other targets for when the thread is on page 10 and needs content

>>33733319
good call, I think we can stretch this one and roll into next month if we do it right.

Since no one has voiced any dissent I'd say we are on DOT torture, I'm cool as fuck with that.

>>33733373
Can DotT be scored? Or are we not necessarily doing rankings every month?

>>33733667
>https://pistol-training.com/drills/dot-torture
>Start at 3 yards. You have to get all 50 hits to pass.

It's pas fail by design, but we can add a -1 +1 mechanic in for hits/misses and do ranking

You eagle eye fags can fuck around with 5 to 7 yard values too

>>33733667

samefag here: >>33733745

Or we could keep the pass/fail mechanic and convert to feet rather than yards and folks could try to push out as much as possible while earning their 100%

>>33733902
Down as fuck for this

>>33733973
guy you are replying to.

me too, only thing I worry about is a pass/fail isn't super noob friendly. (hell I will probably die a 9 feet with the WHO stuff)

That said it's not like /k/ is lining up at the gates to participate, is it.

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Yep, /k/ sure is weapons

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>>33733146
Got a new gun to try this with this week, weather permitting.

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102/300 Guy here. I spent all fucking day shooting my pistols today. I didn't bother to go for score again, but I will give it another try next weekend with my FNX45.

I learned some things today

>1. I don't know what in fuck my 92FS is doing.
This may sound like a cop-out, but I line up the sights dead-center on the target and my shots go low and left. If I hold high and right on the target, then they are centered. This is bullshit in my opinion and I'm going to try to fix it with a drifter tool. I wanted to change it to a Wilson rear sight anyway.
>2. I am getting better.
Part of my practice today was spent shooting at bowling pins in a staggered line. Shooting from 15 yards with my FNX I was able to take four out of six with ten rounds, three were consecutive hits. My better performance with my .45 also backs up my 92FS possibly having a sight issue.

>>33734735
Oh shit! This is gonna be good. You trying to curb stomp my M&P Shield score for subcompact?

>>33734846
>and my shots go low and left. If I hold high and right on the target, then they are centered.
Set the punch down, it's not the sights, you're flinching

>>33734909
>you're flinching

Why the fuck would I only flinch consistently with that one specific gun? Wouldn't I flinch with both? And wouldn't my high-right hold not make a difference if flinching were the case?

>>33734406
Nature of the beast, lots of talkers that don't know how to walk.

Guys like >>33734846 are my fucking hero just for putting effort in.

>>33734257
There has got to be something that can be done, but I'm wary of inviting the geberal autism you see on the board. Otherwise I'd jump in that tgread and point out that they train just as little as the liberal shits they're insulting

>>33734950
The difference in ergonomics of the guns, length of pull, and trigger weight could have a big impact, try riding tge slide release for a few mags and see if you flinch when you drop the hammer on an empty chamber since it won't lock back, or liad a snap cap randomly in the mag.

It makes more sense that you're flinching than your sights randomly change zero in exactly tge way flinching would throw shots, then is suddenly solid when you focus more. (I'm assuming when you aim high right you are frustrated and super focused)

Shoot a group off a sand bag before messing with the sights.

>>33734846
Try this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi5eZqc9H7I

>>33735012
>hen is suddenly solid when you focus more. (I'm assuming when you aim high right you are frustrated and super focused)

>Solid
You didn't look at the picture, did you? >>33734846 The spread and pattern is the same. All that changed was the general area where my shots went. (outside the circle to in)

I might still be flinching but I don't get how it accounts for a holdover situation like this.

>>33735168
You are suggesting that your sights (tge steel things semi-permanently fixed to your gun) are moving so perfectly consistently that you can shoot the same group in two different places, and I'm telling you to stop and think about what you just said.

You are flinching, I'm not saying that as an insult, I flinch all the time otherwise I'd have a perfect 300 ITT by now. You need to stop looking for the issue in your hardware and start asking yourself what YOU are doing to cause it. That poor gun is trying its damedest to put shots on target, you are pointing it in the wrong spot on the target. Now what we need to do is figure out why.

>>33734846
How big is that target?

>>33735280
God dammit, I misread your post, I thought you were saying the group was where you were aiming when you said 'centered'
I'm a dipshit, my bad.

You're still flinching.

>>33735033
Ooh shit. I'm going to be an information vaccuum for a while, I can tell.
I also found this guy who has a video specific to the 92/M9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3uBezHdjd8

>>33735280
>That poor gun is trying its damedest to put shots on target
I have this mental image of my Beretta yelling at me now.

>>33735294
I think they're like a foot across or so.

>>33735402
>I have this mental image of my Beretta yelling at me now
Lol, I always imagine them just trying to do a good job and being sorry that the rounds aren't hitting the 10.

On tge information vacuum comment, that is the best attitude you can have, thank you so much for being one of the little gems of quality on this fucking board.

>>33735451
>thank you so much for being one of the little gems of quality on this fucking board.
I might be stubborn but I legitimately want to learn this shit. I'm questioning events in the world more and more each day and I'm starting to think I'm a damn fool if I don't put my carry permit to actual use instead of just using it to buy things.

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>>33735614
If you have a CCW you should be carrying, hell, I used to carry without a license even before moving back to a constitutional carry state.

>content bump

>>33735614
You absolutely should carry every day and put cc in high priority in terms of what you spend your resources on in terms of guns/ammo etc.

At least that's what I do. I would rather spend more money on ammo, targets and range fees than anything else.

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Competition day again today.

Since I'm apparently spearheading the rifle portion, today is rimfire offhand silhouettes at 50, 75, 100, 135 and 150 yards.

Gorgeous day.
>tfw 31* and frost on the ground when I got here
What the fuck weather

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>>33734909
Don't know about curbstomping, but I'm gonna try to get it broke this week if it ever stops raining. First subcompact I've owned, so it'll take getting used to

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Hi /k/
Will atf fuck my dog up ?

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>>33737476
Broke in* not broke. I just bought the dang thing.

>>33734846
>>33734950
Trigger take up, creep and weight, LOP, grip angle all combined with your biomechanics really can make you do odd duck things with one gun you simply don't do with others.

>>33734968
Let's print some DOT torture targets and test it a couple ways, the pass/fail with distance in feet being your score and with -1 per miss, +1 for totally in the white and 0 for touching the line, what do you think?
You are applying counterforce per-ignition of the gasses, anticipating the shot and flinching the gun down. Try this, do a bill drill at like 5 yards (dump 6 shots as fast as you can center of mass) I would bet at least half the shots will be back to center. This will indicate you are now applying conterforce at the correct time.

We are glad to have you here, anon.

>>33734735
Awww snap he's in the P30 club, looks like an LEM too?

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>>33737586
LEM indeed. Pretty excited to get it on the range. I need to figure out a holster and/or light. I think am XC1 would look dope, but i don't want to spend that much. I'd be fine grabbing a TLR3 financially, but they look like ass.

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>>33737635
noice m8, pumped for you

>>33737477
the choppers are probably already inbound anon

>tfw 2 magazines in hand and only 1 magwell ;______;

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>>33737417
Awesome range, good luck on the drill, I'm sure you won't need it

DOT torture EZPZ printing format attached folks, who wants to test some scoring mechanics?!

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I lied, I did shoot this again to day when I realized I don't have any printed DOT tortures to experiment with, shot a 274, no photo because WHY BOTHER LADS.

>>33740111
Dont feel bad, I shot like I came down with Parkinsons mid seizure today. Didn't even place. That's literally never happened before.

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>>33737635
I've got a TLR3 on my P2000SK, I think it looks okay, but it's got some body to it doesn't it

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>>33740148
What was the score and what gat? Just curious

Also, TDA DOT torture tar-gat formatted to be printer friendly

>>33740187
22/50 with a kimber 82 military and aperture sights, then a 32/50 with
A tricked out 10/22. I normally shoot in the mid 40s

>>33737186
>you should be carrying
>>33737198
>You absolutely should carry every day

Have you seen my shots? They're a mess.

>>33737586
I guess I understand that. I did notice the FNX hammer moves much more smoothly than Beretta's.

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>>33740364
Right on, in the spirit of getting longgat DOTM up and running I'll make sure to run it at least once.

>tfw owned this gat 2 years and put 30 rounds through it

Yes I'm despicable

>>33740533
Also - day to day your mental/physical strengths/weakness' will fluctuate

I shoot a metric ton of pistol rounds and there's still times where I'm getting consistent but WRONG results, like pushing shots left or right or fumbling big time on bill drills and FASTs dropping shots that don't usually get dropped.

Basically what I'm suggesting is you need a large sample of data to really understand the micro actions taking place when working a pistol.

I'd say take both pistols out at the same time, with a good amount of ammo, even do a "split day" if you can (shoot decent volume in the morning, go eat, recharge, come back at full capacity but with a familiar and "broken in" control of the gun.

Also, if you go back out and are still getting this low left stuff - do a bill drill - working under speed starts to line out the counterforce better, you can learn a lot about the mechanical accuracy with a couple 6 round drills of that.

>>33740533

Carry regardless, shit most DGU's are contact distance.

Also mentally you know what's going on and are literally better off than 90% of people out there with a permit.

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ppg 9 bump because you guys all have lives and someone needs to carry the fire.

>>33742223
I always liked calling that .gif "Tactical T-Rex"

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>>33742661
He might be a massive faggot who started a business with dad's money so he could cash a check to shoot, but that punch-able turd can shoot.

Maybe I'm soft on him because I'm a fellow lanklet I dunno

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>>33742223
>>33742661

Excuse me?

---

Since this is the actually-shooting-guns thread, figured I'd mention I'm moving away from my leather AIWB-CDA II and going to a Dark Star Gear AIWB in an obnoxious color. Really dig the leather, but after 9 months, I'm convinced that the design simply isn't optimal for me. I'm about 1/3-1/2 of the way through the wait for a 5-Shot Leather SME (which the current DSG is basically a kydex clone of) so that'll satisfy my leather fix.

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>>33743202
>but after 9 months, I'm convinced that the design simply isn't optimal for me

Objectively speaking this is almost unanimous, as shitty as a realization it is/will be for the carry folks and industry.

God speed with your dark star, they get great word of mouth, if I was a glock guy I'd have messed with them already.

>>33743259

Actually, I'm very much convinced of the benefits of leather. The friction-fit retention is a good thing for carry. It's more of how the JRC design does its thing that makes it unworkable -- there's simply too much material in the wrong place. It's actually about as thin as most kydex rigs when worn (on paper it's thicker, but the reinforcing ribs don't end up inside the waistband -- belt rides between them which keeps things thin under the belt).

In addition to the strut the belt loop rides on (too tall in order to allow for adjustability), I don't like that it's a single offset loop. It's not as stable as it could be when you slam into the gun to get a grip, and that costs time.

The 5-Shot rig will be different, and I'm almost certain it's the answer for leather AIWB for me. I've worn the DSG rig before and it basically fixes everything the Eidolon does wrong, so at least this isn't a gamble for me.

FWIW, I think your kydex P30/WML rig would be just as much of a problem for me as the CDA-II.

>>33743340
When you get your updated setup make sure to keep us DOTM folks posted, I know I would appreciate it sir.

I'm bad at seeing around corners, so maybe I'm not maximized on my setup, but daaaaaang negro it's quite the niche build already

>>33740636
>Carry regardless

My Crossbreed SuperTuck should arrive in a week, according to them.

>>33744418
Their lead times are generally on point. Fuck Strong side carry is old school though m8.

Regardless DO IT, we love you, keep the dream alive.

Horse or cow hide?

I liked horse more for IWB, but it was probably a non issue.

>>33743340
I will NEVER carry a leather holster again.

I had one time I had to draw but not fire. I basically could not get my firearm re-holstered with a high-end IWB leather holster without undoing my belt.

>>33744538
Andrew's custom leather uses a steel band to hold the holster open.

>>33744521
>Fuck Strong side carry is old school though m8.
Um...okay?
>>33744521
>we love you
I d- what?

>Horse or cow hide?
I.. don't know. I opted for black.

>>33744538

Then your holster was shit.

All of my leather holsters are leather-only. No steel or plastic reinforcement. Three are horsehide, one is cowhide. None of them have any issue staying open after the firearm is drawn.

Don't blame shit construction on the materials used.

>>33745091
It was a Milt Sparks EX. It had softened because it was old.

If you're gonna say that Milt Sparks' holsters are somehow shit compared to [any other leather-only holster] you're gonna get laughed off the internet.

That being said they are very definitely inferior to hybrids with kydex.

>>33745177

Somehow I doubt that.

I've personally worn a Sparks SSII with a late-1990s build date that... still held the holster open. Clearly unpossible because it had leather in it.

>>33745299
Well, all I can say is..
>not all leather is created equal
Even among a single brand and model holster you will have SOME variance in thickness and tanning quality even among the best brands
>I had and used it daily for years before having to draw that one time
I trained with it some, but always with my casual clothes because I wasn't gonna wear slacks and a button-down to a range. Not sure if the much-narrower dress belt or the fact I wear my dress belt tighter had anything to do with it. Either way this is not a problem with a kydex-shelled holster. It got sweated on a lot and drawn from little.

Mine was purchased in 2000, before they added the metal reinforcing to the EX (mine is just double-layer cowhide around the mouth) or offered it in horsehide. I don't particularly know when mine was built but I would assume either in or just before 2000.

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>>33744679
Holy shit why have I not heard of this guy before?!

>>33745612

If you're using a non-gun belt that must be drawn tightly in order to hold the gun up, that could be a factor in making reholstering difficult (but not impossible). Similarly, if that belt is thinner than the belt loops, that's going to pose a problem as well. The problem you describe is hard to imagine, however, and it sounds a lot like the stress got to you, and also something that would have been noticed when you holstered up that morning/evening.

Kydex isn't magical. All these people on here so enamored with the dubious benefit of carrying WMLs concealed as private citizen CCW guys aren't going to be happy over the long term with their kydex, for example (stress on the holster in all the wrong places). Belt attachments? I've broken three. Designing leverage on the holster into the kydex causes issues (I've personally had a Keeper crack on the wedge; others report similar issues over the long term). Bending over with a sweatshielded holster that's empty? Oops.

Overall, I'm of the opinion that leather is far more durable than kydex in the long term. It's also significantly more resistant to struggles over the gun, which -- along with muh aesthetics -- is the reason I prefer it.

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>>33740159
Do you carry your P30sk? I need to get a holster. I'm willing to try appendix carry, but I've never understood how it's comfortable to sit holsters like that.

>>33727530
This is really useful I received my first gun and can't wait to take this on the range. Though I'll ask whether this is allowed because it is my first time on that range. Pretty much a nervous first timer here

>>33748017
I don't have a p30sk just a p2000sk.

My carry gun is p30L LEM w/ TLR-1 HL

KSG Armory and JM CK are my go to holster folks

>>33748037
Dude awesome. Welcome feel free to post targets and banter and ask questions to your hearts content

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>>33748084
My bad. I just glanced and thought it was a P30. Regardless, thanks for the suggestions. You have a preference between the two? The JM CK looks pretty good.

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>>33748285
Both make top shelf stuff, I shill harder for KSG though because he was willing to take on my AIWB WML project when no one else would, also turn over time of 5-7 days vs 6 weeks.

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>>33748323
That's pretty legit. I'm considering the KSG just for the mag carrier that's included, but i feel like that'll add a ton of bulk to a seemingly already uncomfortable mode of carry.

Anyone have any guides to recommend as far as pistol marksmanship goes? My rifle shooting is "pretty good" but I obviously have some major shortcomings when it comes to handguns

>>33748618
I would avoid designs that incorporate a mag carrier - just order a individual mag pouch as well, same amount of space taken up but more versatile.

>>33748017
>I'm willing to try appendix carry, but I've never understood how it's comfortable to sit holsters like that.

It is absolutely comfortable to do it. What I'm getting from you is a concern that the barrel and slide end of the gun will poke your leg when sitting down, causing discomfort.

This is not the case. When carrying AIWB, the muzzle will be pointing down inbetween your genitals and leg, this is absolutely not an issue with a subcompact like the P30SK which has a considerably shorter barrel and slide length. I carry a PX4 Compact AIWB and have absolutely no problems sitting down with it. There's people who carry 1911's AIWB comfortably when they sit and a friend of mine carries a Glock 34 AIWB.

A quality holster and belt will go a long way in making AIWB comfortable.

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>>33748874
>Anyone have any guides to recommend as far as pistol marksmanship goes? My rifle shooting is "pretty good" but I obviously have some major shortcomings when it comes to handguns

Here I present, the single handedly best resource for pistol shooting on the internet.

http://pistol-training.com/

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?3592-ToddG-for-Beginners

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>>33749026
Noted.

>>33749069
More concerned with the barrel pressing into my inner thigh or the grip pressing into my stomach. Where exactly does the barrel go if not There?

>>33749287
The barrel pressing inwards is not a good thing. This is mostly the case with poorly designed holsters or a holster that does not comform to your body shape. There are a couple of solutions that help tilt the barrel away from your body such as a neoprene pad that also tucks the grip more into your body which is a good thing.

You should definately read up on pistol-forum. There are plenty of people there with more information than I can offer that cc the P30SK AIWB.

>>33748285

I would strongly suggest you buy a full-size P30 holster for the SK. It sounds counterintuitive, but the short guns actually tend to dig into you as they sit because the grip wants to roll out away from the stomach. A longer holster gets the muzzle hot spot down past the pelvis and simultaneously keeps things stable/prevents roll out.

Try a JMCK for AIWB. I like the wing claw designs personally.

>>33749090
Perfect, thank you my man!

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>I figured out why our thread only gets a fraction of a percent of /k/ to participate
>>33750187

Every day I hate this board more and more

>>33749501
Interesting. I'll look into it
>>33749319
Noted.
Thanks both of you.

>>33749501
That's something I hadn't thought of, interesting info man, thanks.

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>>33750232
absolutely disgusting

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>>33750351
>>33751517

Generally speaking, with a properly designed holster, most any pistol can be concealed comfortably.

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>>33727530
Not DOTM but I did this with my CZ455 shooting CCI mini mags
>Same box from >>33733200

>>33752661
That's surprisingly good for minimags. Good job.

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>>33752835
My rifle fucking loves them

>>33752960
Both of mine will print dime-sized 10-shot groups with them (and most other high velocity .22) at 50 yards, but the groups open up to ~3" at 100 yards as they go transonic. Meanwhile I can shoot 3/4" 10-shot groups with CCI Standard Velocity or CCI Green Tag at 100, or if I pony up for FGMM or Eley Club I can shrink it to just over half an inch.
>tfw bought a single box of Midas+
>rifle didn't like it
phew. Shit's expensive.

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>>33753110
Mine just happens to have the perfect conditions to keep them super sonic at 100. I also had good luck with Federal HV gold medal, Eley TenEx, sub sonic (the green box), and Club. No reason not to use the cheaper CCI though.

>>33753326
Lucky fucker. If I get 70 yards of supersonic travel out of my rifle with ~1300fps ammo where I live I'm doing good, and it's a 22" barrel. The joys of living ~100ft above sea level.

>>33753549
My range literally uses the ocean as a safety zone behind the berm (unless youre AK vro, in which case we use the same range), maybe your barrel is too long? What's the optimal barrel length for a full burn with CCI mini mags?

>>33753676
Nah I'm in the midwest. IIRC full burn happens in around 11" of barrel and the bullet will continue to gain velocity to around the 19" mark, and of course this will be somewhat dependent on which ammo (I don't know the specifics for minimags).

You generally have to go WAY the fuck over optimal length before you start losing significant velocity. For example, a CZ Ultra Lux is within 30fps MV of a Varmint despite having 8" difference in barrel length.

I wonder if we don't have radically different air density.

>>33753762
That's very interesting, I didn't know optimal length was so short on a .22

I live in Alaska but I doubt that changes much.

>>33747194
I wonder if that would work with a Shockwave from Mossberg

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Content bump.
>do not expect anything resembling reasonable accuracy out of Tulammo
Their bullets are undersized and vary wildly in weight

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>>33758575
nice dude, good luck kek

I threw a baby slide release on the P30L's, hopefully my thumbs will stay out of the way of the controls now

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>>33758944
Yeah I was wondering why this particular lot keyholed in one of my rifles and printed 7"+ groups at 100 yards in the other 3.

Also, this is SUPPOSED to be a 55gr bullet. I ended up pulling 4 more after this one to check consistency
>62.5
>48.9
>48.6
>51.0
>61.3

>>33759034
How the fuck can they be that out of spec? That's absurd, maybe it was just a junk run?

>>33759234
From what I've read it's pretty typical for Tula .223. Especially the drastically undersized bullets.

Lots of people theorizing they're intentionally trying to sabotage that particular caliber, since none of their other ammo is that horribly out of spec.

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>>33759301
That would be hilarious

>>33759034
Whoops, typo'd that.
>61.5, not 62.5

That pic represented the heaviest of the 5 bullets pulled.

I pulled them more or less at random from the 2 cases of 1000 I bought, which forever ago got dumped loose into a .50cal can then a couple months ago got put on stripper clips and put into 2 different Plano almost-but-not-quite-30cal plastic cans. As a result they're quite mixed up, but both cases were from the same lot.

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>>33759034
Holy shit.

>>33759034
>Yeah I was wondering why this particular lot keyholed in one of my rifles and printed 7"+ groups at 100 yards in the other 3.
>>33759234
>How the fuck can they be that out of spec?
>>33759301
>From what I've read it's pretty typical for Tula .223.
>Tula

>TULA
>TULAMMO

I FIGURED IT OUT, GUYS. I KNOW WHY THAT AMMO IS SHIT.

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>sell FNS-9 + goodies to noobguns
>take him + his pop shooting
>pop falls in love with P30L w/TLR-1 HL
>keeps harassing me to "name my price"
>finally cave and say $2,000
>he goes for it on the spot
>3 days later new P30L has arrived and back up TLR-1 HL arriving tomorrow
>pocket $800, turn 360 degrees and walk away

>>33763323
Swear to fuck

I'm trying not to buy a P30 LEM, AIWB it and take it to competition.

>>33763379
Do eeeeeet
also be a huge gaymur and add a match weight or WML for maximum cheese

>>33763323
You magnificent jew

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>>33744418
>>33744521
>Their lead times are generally on point.

>MFW I got an email today saying it's shipped
>Currently in Springfield, Missouri

>>33763734
Kid's dad is some ex cali fag with wayyy more money than sense, I think he thinks he's "cheating the system" or something buying guns face to face in a state with no defacto reg, lol.

next saturday I'm bringing out the DD M4V11 w/ 10 year old EOTech 512 and gonna see if I can make a cool 4k kekekekekek (probably not but a man can dream)

t. a guy who fucking NEVER makes a dime on his gun hobby

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>>33763812
gratz gratz anon

have a gross pic as your cherry on top

>>33763858
That looks like every bathroom in my house after my wife's brothers come to visit.

I will never understand how 7 40+ year old men shit so fucking much. I'm lucky to shit twice a week.

>>33764038

Sounds like you have 7 moderately deep graves to dig

>>33764038
You should probably get that looked at, you should be having a bowel movement at least once a day.

>>33764309
t. out of shape fast food consumer

>>33764257
Rather not. Then I'd have to have some part in raising their copious numbers of crotchfruit other than being best uncle because I take them fishing and shooting.
>tfw 17 nieces and nephews ranging in age from 20 to <1 with 3 more on the way

>>33764309
It's a known issue.

>>33765122
17 more graves?

kidding I know, I'm terrible

y you gotta be such a normie bro

>>33765210
Cuz I'm old compared to most of 4chan.

I was an adult before the internet was readily accessible to the American population and had graduated college before my backwoods hometown got dialup.

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>>33765250

>TFW can't find an elder /k/ommando to play a grandfatherly role in my life

>>33727530

I've begun sketching out a rough draft of a document tentatively titled: "Git Gud: /k/'s Guide to Practicing Defensive Pistolcraft."

Thoughts on contents?

What I have:
- A brief word on equipment
- Effective dry fire habits
- Working with a gun in your hand/safe handling contextualized
- The drawstroke
- Effective live fire habits
- Suggested drills
- Where to look for more resources

>>33765771
damn good start in terms of breakdown

let me sober up/sleep on it and I'll give further simplistic input

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>>33727530
Who makes good snap caps for extensive .22lr dry fire practice? Is that even a product that exists? Only .22lr dummy rounds I can find are explicitly not snap caps, pic related.

>>33765771
I would include shit like recommended cardio or grip strength training.

>>33765943

But I hate running...

>>33765922
>Is that even a product that exists?

5cpr .22lr bullets

>>33765922
A-Zoom makes them. They're kinda expensive, but they're anodized aluminum and last forever.

>>33765959
So swim or bike or hike or have copious amounts of sex.

And switch up which hand you jack it with, while putting the choke into choking your chicken.

>>33765991
Yes, that will work wonderfully inside my urban apartment.

>>33766012
I thought the A-Zoom package for those said they only last a few dry fires each before the rim gets too chewed up to use?

>>33766045
I've got 2 packages worth, which IIRC is like 12, and they each have probably 150,000 dry fires on them. Yes they're a bit chewed up but they still work at preventing the firing pin from hitting the breechface.

>>33766041

Ha.

No, I fucked up my knee pretty bad doing judo when I was a kid. Kind of put a damper on running for me. Last year was the first time I deliberately ran a mile since that injury.

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>>33765771
Going to classes is a big one. I know it's going to be hard to convince people on /k/ that seeking professional instruction is something worthwhile in terms of developing skill and defensive mindset.

Pistol-Forum/Pistol-Training has been the greatest resource for me and I've learned a ton of shit just by reading and posting there for about a year.

Primary & Secondary had a bunch of good podcasts but they deleted most of them. They still have a ton of great podcast episodes that discuss certain things like light technique, night sights and so forth.

Tom Givens does this Rangemaster Newsletter every month and it's packed with a metric shit ton of knowledge bombs. And it's all for Free.99

http://rangemaster.com/publications/rangemaster-newsletter/

The best thing to do is stop browsing /k/ and read up on Pistol forum. There, you will find people discussing things of merit that actually know how to shoot well with subject matter experts that post frequently across the forum.

>>33766092

I've been a reader/member there for quite a while. I'm aware of its benefits, and a fair amount of the sourcing will come from there I imagine.

The goal is to provide an easily-digestible resource for the anons here, rather than simply directing them to another forum.

>>33766065
Awesome. No mushrooming on the firing pin?

>>33766228
Not on mine, but all of mine are pretty modern.

>>33766123

Also, anticipate a draft of the "A brief word on equipment" section within an hour or so.

>>33766256
Hmm. I've got an old Stevens 86D I was wanting to drill with before attending the next convenient Appleseed, maybe I'll just spend the extra money (which is somewhat tight right now) on range time instead of risking the firing pin.

>>33766524
Oh those are sweet rifles. I have one that was my grandfather's, sadly the internals got pretty rusty in his old age because he lived in coastal FL and kept it in a closet.

Trigger was pretty shit but also pretty easy to clean up to where it was usable.

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>>33766591
When I bought mine for $111 out-the-door at a local shop it quickly become one of my favorites to shoot. I got it home (living someplace rural at the time) and sat on the back porch shooting a 4" steel spinner target for hours.

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A little late because I hyperlinked the fuck out of it, but here's what I've done so far tonight:

http://docdro.id/C0FOpjU

>>33767007

To do on the gear section before moving on: ammo discussion. Will include a condensed version of DocGKR's list along with some links to wound ballistics stuff. The idea behind condensing the list is:
a) What can I find at Wal Mart/Academy/Bass Pro that's good?
b) What's readily available online?
c) What's known to work across a wide variety of barrel lengths?

After that, I'll move to safe gunhandling and dry fire. Will likely skip ahead to legal before filling in the rest. But, thoughts? Should I continue?

>>33767007
I think supplementary videos on certain points should be a thing. For example, on tritiums

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cieJQE3M_hA

https://youtu.be/kzSHXemDSm0?t=28

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>>33767144
https://youtu.be/cieJQE3M_hA?t=472

Right into it

>>33750232
That's what the internet is all about. Now you can simply TALK about your hobby, rather than actually PARTICIPATE in your hobby.

>>33767270
That shit is frustrating, because it leads to people talking shit about guns they have never shot, or giving advice about shit they have never done.

>>33767007
noice m8, will read in a bit when I'm more awake.

>>33767077
He'll yes you should. I for one appreciate the effort sir

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>>33767077
Looks good so far. I can't get the links to work though :/

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>>33765922
This
>>33766012

Also the A-zoom Primer Pocket substance takes a ton more strikes than anything else I've found.

>>33767007
Loving this so far - been a bit tied up at the office but if I have any input when I finish up I'll holler, thanks for taking up the task anon-kun

>>33767007
Awesome stuff. Only thing I can see is the Approved Gear list being expanded - or better yet, adjust the wording to reflect these are *examples* of /k/ approved gear but not all encompassing.

>>33765922
https://www.lymanproducts.com/brands/a-zoom/22-rimfire-snap-caps.html

Turns out you really aren't supposed to be using the aluminum ones
>oops
But they make these as well.

>>33727530

Git Gud guy here:

Anybody have that pic of the dude who shot this with the Jennings .22? I need it for the cover image.

>>33770270
That's an A/k/ anon, he usually shows up in the evenings. I'm sure he'd be happy to oblige.

>>33770337

Cool. I'll hit him up later. I edited a previous "legal intro" doc I wrote for somebody else to use as the legal section late last night, and I sketched out the dry fire section today during my down time at work. Should have some substantial new content up early this evening.

>>33770337

Also, did anybody get the hyperlinks working in the .docx download link I used?

I'm getting them working fine in both word and Adobe (as a PDF). Curious what the problem is.

>>33770408
I'm legit enjoying it so far, well structured and pointed.

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>>33770270
Yo. You said the raven concealment mag carriers are good for CC in the doc. Does the copia come with the soft loops necessary, or are those a separate purchase?
>>33770445
Not working on my Samsung phone for whatever reason. Normally they work.

>>33770445
The work in Firefox from my desk top

>>33770521

The Copia pouch is an OWB pouch and will, by default, come with RCS's injection-molded OWB loops (which are excellent). If you wish to convert it to IWB (using Eidolon loops/struts) use or use another belt attachment, they have options for upgrades on their site.

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>>33770270
What's up?

>>33770671

Thanks dude. Assuming it's OK, I'd like to use that image for the cover for the article I'm writing.

If yes, is there any attribution you'd want?

>>33770739
Public use as far as I'm concerned, go nuts. I can't think of anything, maybe a note about the world being full of dangerous amateurs? A $70 gun will kill you just as dead as a $3k gun.

>>33770577
Noted. Any reputable mag carriers that already have soft loops that you know of? $40 for a carrier with hardware I won't use + $20 for loops to make it usable seems kinda inefficient

>>33770925

How do you want to carry the mag? IWB on your weak side, IWB at appendix, OWB on your weak side?

>>33770934
IWB weak side preferably. I'm open to appendix if I can get some practice/comfort with it built up

>>33771148

I really like either AIWB or OWB weak side for mag pouches.

Having said that...

For AIWB, use a JM Custom Kydex AIWB mag pouch.

For IWB, I have no real experience because I found it to be very uncomfortable. My gut says to go with either the JMCK IWB Single Mag Pouch or the KSG Armory version.

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>>33770846

Thanks much.

---

Attached is the current table of contents. If a topic has has sub-points, it's either already been written or content can be expected later this evening.

>>33772016
Cool. I'm about to order the JM custom holster. Is the sponge or wedge necessary for comfortable carry?
Also, I'm thinking about going with the one anons suggestion of just ordering a P30 holster for my P30sk.

>>33772025
>Thanks much.
No problems

>TFW non-corrosive 147gr silver tip steel core

>>33772272

I was the one who suggested the longer length. And yes, do it.

I like the wedge/sponge a lot but frankly you can get the same damn thing from Mastermind Tactics for $5. Tony asking $20 for the kit is a little outrageous. I've also made my own before using stuff found at Wal Mart.

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>>33772314
Go. Fucking. Dammit. I forgot my picture.

>>33772319
Roger dodger.

>>33772319
One last thing and I'll quit bugging you.
Clips or loops? I'm leaning towards loops.

>>33772682

Loops are always more stable. If they're soft loops, they're still pretty easy on-easy off. Having said that, I really like the Eidolon clips that they're using nowadays. Best practice is the soft loops (or a solid fixed loop) but I'm comfortable with a robust clip design.

>>33772805
Got it. You've been a big help.

Git gud guy here:

We're at 12,000 words and climbing...

My intention is to have a draft available for input within the next two hours or so.

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>>33773090
Bad ass

>>33727530
In conjunction with DOTM and GitGud guy (G3?) We should try to just push general quality content threads. Anyone working on anything? I'm converting 70's surplus 7.62x54r corrosive shit ammo to brass case mexican match, I'm thinking about tossing up a thread on the process and doing the same for corrosive and super shitty 7.92x57 and taking a swing at making some Wolf classic compete with Norma Tac-223

>>33770095
Excellent, those are exactly what I was looking for. I think I saw them in a store once, though I was starting to doubt myself on account of not being able to find them online. Thank you.

>>33773460
You literally couldn't pay me to discuss reloading with the general population of /k/, far too many people with hot (objectively wrong) opinions that come in and shit all over everything despite multiple sources of proof against their claims.

That being said, if anyone has specific questions related to the production of *true* match ammo, feel free to ask in here.

>>33773781

For what it's worth, as a relatively new reloader, there's no way in hell I'd take advice from 4Chan on how not to blow my gun up.

>>33773781
oh boy here comes the elitism

>>33773814
Nah. Just sick of arguing about cost per round and whether you actually save any money on reloading. Too many people seriously think you can't possibly reload 9x19 for less than 19cpr, which is somehow magically the same price you can commonly find new (non-reman) ammo for (before shipping) online. Just there's always one or two asses that come into every reloading thread and go
>HURR YOU CANT POSSIBLY SAVE MONEY ON RELOADING, YOU'LL LITERALLY NEVER SHOOT ENOUGH TO BREAK EVEN, YOU ONLY SAVE AT MOST A PENNY A SHOT.
Which is objectively wrong. You have two options: 1. shoot a lot more for the same money, or 2. Shoot slightly more and save money.

Rarely does anybody throw actual loads up on here, and the few I've seen and bothered to reference have been straight book loads and safe.

>>33773781
Wanna chime in on my thread tonight and talk (constructive) shit about my methods? It's welcome since I'll inevitably make mistakes.

>>33773090
Awesome bro, I definitely love your project.

>>33773460
I do nothing of note except shoot pistols hard, wish I was more useful.

Oh, I just bought 2k rounds of FedArm reloads that don't feed for shit! But I don't think that's the content you were talking about.

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Git Gud Guy here...

There's too much shit here to make a .jpg version of the document as it stands so far, so pic related is a content preview of the Dry Fire section.

Link: http://docdro.id/ucNoR1H

Let's get some substantive criticism going. Also, what about hosting solutions (I just googled for one, but no idea on the longevity of the link).

>>33773814
He's right to be frustrated and turned off to the prospect, it's kind of an offshoot of why a couple dozen of us have found refuge here.
It really sucks when you are trying to convey well thought out, articulate knowledge and anons want to burn it all down "for the luls"

>>33774270

For whatever reason the links are not working in the linked-to PDF.

Here's the doc version: http://docdro.id/La31ybH

>>33774320

>>33774270

And here's a working hyperlinked pdf: http://docdro.id/xywPuzq

>>33774451
Totally lovin your dedication to this, having a few and doing some draw & dryfire practice, I'll give you my $0.02 in the am.

Thanks again sir.

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>>33773781
Hey, I have some info on the 10 rounds I pulled down

Bullet weight
>149.5
>148.7
>148.3
>148.2 (x3)
>148.1
>147.5
>146.8
>145.7

Powder charge
>49.0
>48.9(x4)
>48.8(x3)
>48.6
>48.5

Bullet diameter
>.3095
>.3093(x2)
>.3091
>.3090(x6)

God dammit Russia. I need to slug my bore.

My reloads:
>PPU brass
>S&B large rifle primer
>2.105" case length
>3.048" COAL
>48.8gr powder (pulled from origonal ball ammo)
>Bullets pulled from original ball ammo (148+/- grouped together on a stripper clip)

>>33774137
Sure, link?

>>33775935
That seems to be a running theme on non-US/non-Swiss ammo--shit's all over the place. That being said, for Russian production ammo that's fairly consistent.

Definitely slug your bore. I have zero experience with anything slavshit, but I do have a .303brit Enfield that differs in bore diameter from my .303brit 1895 by a solid .003". The Enfield is .3121" and the 1895 is .3090". Needless to say, I get better accuracy out of the 1895.

Out of curiosity, have you checked for discrepancies in case volume between the PPU and the original steel case? 48.8gr seems reasonable but I'd be more comfortable checking. Nearly got bit on that reloading .223, for whatever reason the TAA-headstamped US military 5.56 brass is a solid 3gr H20 lower capacity than LC brass, I'm glad I checked before making my mk262 clone loads (since they're already showing slightly flattened primers with FGMM, which are known to be soft). Wouldn't have been enough to KB the rifle but I probably would've blown primers.

>>33776190
I'm going to wait until tomorrow to do a thread, after I shoot some groups.

PPU actually has every so slightly more case volume than the military steel case.

>>33775797

A predictable downside to all the PF links: dudes that are obviously from here are showing up there. It's going... poorly.

>>33776779
Damn now I kinda want to go over there just to watch all the REEE happen.

>>33776815

If you head over to the ammunition section, there's a Really Good Thread on FMJ vs. JHP.

Bonus: I get to update my ammunition section with better info now.

>>33776827

Aaaaand the ammo section has been revised. Bless you anon, whoever you are.

>>33774270

Revision 1 of the document includes two new subsections ("Let's Piss People Off About Capacity!" and "Attachment Methods: Clips, Soft Loops, and Solid Loops") in the gear section, as well as a revision of the Ammunition section. Additionally I've fixed a few errors in the links and started working on wording and grammar (the linked-to version is a very rough draft).

I'll post a fully revised version that incorporates the input I receive from you guys, any changes I choose to make on my own, as well as whatever I decide to put on the mindset section (haven't decided how to go about that at all), though I'm not sure on a timeline as I don't really have any constructive feedback at the moment.

>>33774270
>>33777665

Nice anon, will read up when I'm fully awake and have a lull here at work, thanks again m8

>>33776522
FYI, there's a reloading/casting thread up now.

As predicted, some asshat came in and promptly spewed the "can't save money doing X" bullshit within the first 10 posts.

>>33780845
God dammit, I just woke up, it's too early for this shit.

>>33777665

You are on fire, keep at it, tons of good stuff in here even for someone who's been shooting for years and years.

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>>33775935
Snapped off 5 rounds while at the range, mosin irons suck and so do I vertical stringing was 100% my fault

>Got some full sized B8 targets

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>>33784268
Noice m8.

I shot DOT torture for the first time today, 5 yards, 42/50, dropped 4/5 WHO shot and for some reason all the 3 shots after the reload shot. Dunno wtf was up, too many FASTs or something.

Anyway no pic because it wasn't a strong performance and I believe I can do much better, had like 30 mph crosswinds and light rain too

>excuses spent

>>33776779
>>33776815

kek I hate that I'm enjoying this, but he's masterful....

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?25381-New-gun-owner-What-helped-me-the-most

>>33786465
>samefag

It's gotta be Callum, or someone inspired by him, this is a work of art.

Goddamnit guys, we have contaminated p-f, I think it will endure but shit, shame on us kek

life support bump

looking forward to dot torture, hoping to beat contender anon and do the OC copypasta as the previous month's was my meager contribution

scoring wise, I think we should just stick to the x/50

3 yards = 1/1 (max score: 50)
5 yards = 1.75/1 (max score: 87.5)
7 yards = 2.5/1 (max score: 125)

Thoughts? I don't want to play god here

>>33787639

Probably the best way to go about it, though you do realize that modifiers of 3/1x, 5/1.5x, and 7/2x would yield max scores of 50, 75, and 100 points possible, right? Seems... less odd on the numbers.

>>33787668
IMHO - 7 is much harder than 3 in this and is worth a lot more than 2x

I'm fine with however the community feels though - the WHO will rape me at any distance, regardless.

>>33787692

I may have missed this discussion, but what's the point of the modifiers apart from differentiating between the ranges? Are we doing multiple targets, best combined score of X shoots?

>>33787731
DOT torture - as originally designed has a varying range of 3-7 yards, as the shooter you apply the distance you work well in - it's not a qualifier like last month - it's a straight up drill/metric.

For us to have friendly competition, we need a standard to apply to work the numbers.
The FBI stuff was fixed so it didn't require any gentleman's agreement, beyond the use of B8 repair centers and acceptable targets.

If you look at the DOT torture target it asks you to mark the range you shot from - so for us to score, we need a unifying metric to be able to dick wave.

>>33787767

Cool. BTW, Revision 1 of GitGud is about to drop.

>>33787932
You are an animal, frankly /k/ is not worthy of your knowledge/contribution bombs, keep at it though, because fuck I'm saving this shit for life long use and distribution when you finish.

>>33787969

>>33787668

Changelog:

All: First-pass review for formatting and wording edits.

All: Section on mindset was scrapped. That’s a somewhat personal discussion for each individual and all I could really do was put some videos up. Additionally, while important, it seems a little outside the scope of improving pistol skill.

I(a)(i): More content added to "The Makings of a Good Defensive Pistol"
I(a)(iii): New section added: "Let's Piss People Off About Capacity!"

I(b)(ii): New section added: "Attachment Methods: Clips, Soft Loops, and Fixed Loops"
I(b)(iii): Additional recommendations on mag pouches added to "A Sample of /k/-Approved Support Gear"

I(d): Ammunition section revised

III(c)(iv): New drills added to "Reloads, Malfunction Clearance, and Misc."

IV: Additional videos added under many sections to "Video Demonstrations of Critical Gunhandling Skills"
IV(g): New section added: "Low-Light Shooting Techniques"
IV(h): New section added: "Retention Shooting"
IV(i): New section added: Yelling at People with a Gun in Your Hand

V(b): New drills added

VII: Additional Resources: began filling this out, but could use input on what else to put there

---

Creating some internal document hyperlinks now so they can click on the name in the table of contents section rather than scrolling.

It's actually pretty close to completion at this point.

>>33737476
You're gonna like that SK. I've been carrying one for about 6 months now and it's great. They just released some +2 mag extensions for it so you can get a full grip.

All right, here is Git Gud: /k/’s Guide to Practicing Defensive Pistolcraft (Revision 1).

https://www.scribd.com/document/346633700/Git-Gud-k-s-Guide-to-Practicing-Defensive-Pistolcraft-Revision-1

I consider the document to be finalized, though some typos, grammar errors, and wording issues probably still remain. It includes a full suite of drills to practice in dry fire, suggestions on how to practice live fire, and 16 unique drills to practice in live fire -- along with commentary on guns, gear, ammunition, and safety. In addition to all of this, it includes a section titled "Video Demonstrations of Critical Gunhandling Skills" which has over 40 hyperlinks to articles and videos demonstrating how to do things like drawing a gun, reloading a gun, shooting from retention, clearing malfunctions, and much more (in addition to the many, many more sprinkled throughout the document).
---
Changelog:

All: Format/wording.

All: Section on mindset was scrapped. I'm not qualified, all it would be is videos.

All: Fully hyperlinked table of contents.

I(a)(i): More content added to "The Makings of a Good Defensive Pistol"
I(a)(iii): New section added: "Let's Piss People Off About Capacity!"

I(b)(i): Included new content on appendix holsters.
I(b)(ii): New section added: "Attachment Methods: Clips, Soft Loops, and Fixed Loops"
I(b)(iii): Additional recommendations on mag pouches added to "A Sample of /k/-Approved Support Gear"

I(d): Ammunition section revised

III(c)(iv): New drills added to "Reloads, Malfunction Clearance, and Misc."

IV: Additional videos added under many sections to "Video Demonstrations of Critical Gunhandling Skills"
IV(g): New section added: "Low-Light Shooting Techniques"
IV(h): New section added: "Retention Shooting"
IV(i): New section added: Yelling at People with a Gun in Your Hand

V(b): New drills added

VII: Additional Resources: Filled this out. Let me know if you see anything I missed.

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50rds 21 or so ft. I love my Beretta.

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>>33788775

>>33788868
For the oldest gun company in the world they are rather underrated

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So I shot like shit today.
First time shooting the P30sk. It was windy, I was shaky, and even though I'd been dry firing the shit out of the little dude, the trigger feels very different when actually shooting.
Also, I somehow miscounted and had to recalculate my score. It didn't help much, but i wanted full disclosure.

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>>33791583
And then I shot the USP twice.
Again, I shot like shit. For whatever reason, today was a flinch day for me.

>>33791583

Your SK is a LEM model, right?

How are you pulling the trigger? Are you staging to the wall and then pressing through (kind of like how people shoot Glocks), or just pressing through the entire pull in a consistent press (like you would a revolver)?

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>>33791595
And slightly better.
Not too proud of today's performance.

>>33791612
Yeah, its LEM, and Staging like most DA/S.A. handguns. I've noticed I needed to use more trigger finger to get my shots over to the center of the target. I did a lot more shooting after the B8, and things cleaned up a bit.

I think I really just need more time behind the gun before I see marked improvement. It's my first subcompact, also.

>>33791642

1) Check your grip. If your grip is locked down, it's a lot harder to push the gun left with the trigger pull (which it appears is happening -- I'm assuming you're smart enough to realize that you should line up the sights on the black part).
2) The secret to LEM, especially the V1 Light LEM variant, is to not stage the trigger pull at all. Apply constant pressure throughout the entire press. Think of it like a revolver that happens to hold more ammo and that also cannot be short-stroked (has an intermediate reset). Don't ride the reset under rapid fire. Constant motion in, constant motion out. You don't necessarily have to let the trigger all the way out to reset, but I found through >7,000 rounds on a full-sized P30 that the reset was a recipe for missed shots.
3) Play with the trigger finger position some. Personally I needed more than I'd ordinarily use with most pistols (just like every other DA trigger I've fired), despite the light weight.

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>>33791687
In regards to 3), I found that using more finger helped a lot. It centered everything up a lot better.

I'm debating changing out the grip panels, but it's honestly really comfortable as is.

I'll keep the trigger pull info in mind the next time I hit the range. This one is just going to come down to a ton of practice, I feel. It's a new trigger style and size for me.
One of the things I noticed was consistently happening, was riding the slide release with my shooting hand thumb. I've really got to train that out of my system.

>>33791720

Seriously, treat it like a revolver.

On the panels: don't limit yourself to all medium/all large/all small. Small sides/large rear worked pretty well for me, but I like a more squared off grip. Play with different combos.

On the grip: start moving your shooting thumb over onto your support thumb (pointing towards the web of your hand) and add pressure to the support hand with that thumb. On SIGs and HKs (and anybody else whose slide release extends waaaay too far back), that should be your default grip; stop trying to get contact with the gun using the support thumb.

>>33791720

Also, my favorite sight combo is available for your pistol:

10-8 Performance .156" rear, Dawson Precision .125" tritium front.

Trijicon HDs are available as well.

>>33791720
How is the P30SK? I constantly hear how it shoots like a fullsize gun but is this true?

>>33791583
>>33791595
>>33791626

M8 I have bad days too, and your bad days still look good to me bro. Thanks for posting, as always.
Ready for DOT torture? I shot a 42/50 at 5 yards yesterday, WHO killed me dead, scoring wise there's no consensus on what we are doing either lol. Whatever let's just SHOOT

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>>33791784
>>33791759
Noted. I may swap the sights out eventually. I like the stock ones a lot, though. I'm really wanting to get new ones on the USP. The suppressor height target slights are killing me. I may just get a new front sight with some sort of tritium or a dot. I think Heine makes a set.
>>33791860
As poorly as I shot, it wasn't the gun. It handles recoil like a full size, and it's really comfy. I didn't have to fix my grip during any strings today. I may take GGG's advice and put the large backstrap on.
>>33791990
I forgot all about dot torture until I actually got on the range. I need to start doing those again.

And I ordered that JM custom AIWB and mag carrier the other day.

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>>33792170
So I'm messing with the backstraps, and the large one fills out my hand better, but the jump creates a pressure point on my hand that I can tell will be a problem when I'm actually shooting.

The small sides and back feel really comfy though. It feels a little more sleek.

>>33792235

Try adding a medium panel on the left side (if you're right-handed; reverse if left-handed) and keep the large backstrap. See if that changes anything.

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>>33792256
Tried it both ways. It just digs into my palm and creates a gap in my grip. I think I'm going to go with a small back and large sides. Seems to fill the gun out without creating a gap between my shooting hand and the grip.

>>33792326

Go with what feels best.

Having said that, I'd suggest taking it all to the range and running a few Bill Drills with each combo. The results may surprise you.

>>33792509
I may very well do that. I've learned comfort and performance aren't always proportional to one another.

>>33788374

Do you have a link to those extensions?

I'm gonna shoot this one this weekend if it stops fucking snowing that is.

Range: varies
Target: 3x5 card
Start position: ready; standing unsupported
Rounds fired: 16

This is a variation of a classic walkback drill.

You get exactly sixteen rounds. You can begin with the target at any distance you choose.

Fire one round at the target. If you hit, add one yard and repeat. If you miss, stay at the same distance and repeat
Your score is the farthest target that you successfully hit.

If you miss three times at the same distance, the drill ends even if you still have ammunition remaining. E.g., if you miss your first shot at the 7yd line, then miss your second attempt at the 7yd line, and miss your third attempt at the 7yd line the drill is over even if you have only fired three rounds and scored no hits. This prevents someone from beginning at the 50yd line and hoping for one hit out of 16 shots.

If you don't miss, you'll end up 15yd farther than your first shot. E.g., if you start at the 5yd line and get all your hits, your last shot will be at the 20yd line.

>>33793883

That's a good drill.

Git gud has a couple variations on it.

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Range day!

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>>33794598
FFFFFFFFFFFFUCK!

>Gonna try one more time

>>33794787
sexy m8

>>33794787
>>33791626
I hate you.
Good shooting.

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>>33795040
Love from Alas/k/a

>My final attempt

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>>33795214
>This USP45 was made in 1995 and has an 8.5lb single action trigger
>Because I hate myself.

>Roommate shot his new revolver
Not bad for his second time to the range with it.

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>>33795214
mad props m8, way outta my skill range, getting above my PB 285 feels insanely daunting.

I put 8/10 on a USPSA at 80 yards the other day and felt good, not gonna imagine what my "groups" would look like at 100.

While we might have gone with "DOT torture" for next month, you should run the sweet 16 with me a few times.

>>33795632
Thanks, that's my last one, you couldn't pay me to care anymore lol

I'm down, going to be a couple days though, work is about to get crazy

>>33795980
I hear ya m8, a month is a lot of time spent on the same thing - thank god we are free to horse around in terms of post worthy content.

I think Sweet 16 is actually a more appealing DOTM than DOT torture, it's lower round count, and has more measurable and "tier like" characteristics, it more visually rewarding to look at, etc etc...

I'm just gonna say it, DOT torture is a great training aid, but not a super inspiring DOTM drill IMHO, thoughts?

>>33796230

What is Sweet 16?

>>33796291
>>33793883


More straightforward and accessible and I think more enjoyable for most folks.

DOT torture is...tedious, not that I dislike any shooting drill, but fuck I have a feeling we will get very low participation with it.

>>33796323

Oh, that. Ok, but I'm doing hard mode.

>>33796345
Heck do everything I suppose.

We don't have enough council members to really lay out much structure at this point. I think we have like 6-10 regulars and twice that + a few in drive by's.

Let's just try and keep it friendly competition focused and didactic while maintaining accessibility and FUN.

What's hard mode? Miss 1 and done?

>>33729696
something is very wrong here

seeing shots tending to go left or right, up or down consistently is one thing, but seeing single shots placed evenly apart across that wide of an area is a massive red flag

either you're doing literally nothing right, and going very far out of your way to do as much wrong as possible as a pistol shooter, or your ammo is bargain bin trash.

theres no consistency or range noted in any of what im seeing on that target, theres no actual grouping occuring here so theres no way for anyone here to realistically correct you. bring back multiple 3-5shot groupings of your best possible effort from 10 meters

>>33734735
What made you pick the LEM over the ambi thumb safety version?

came so close to hitting that buy now button on one today, and ive been trying very hard to not buy one impulsively

>>33796385

I was going to do it under par and from the holster. Probably 2 seconds within 10 yards, 2.5 seconds beyond that.

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>>33796421
The official B8 is really big, this is perfectly reasonable printing for someone who's not super familiar or comfortable with the demanded shooting strings. If you don't shoot much, but have gotten over anticipating the recoil this is the kind of stuff I would expect with honest accountability in unfamiliar territory for a dedicated but lower volume casual shooter.

Mental pressure can have a huge effect on a shooter who can normally slow fire very tight, not everyone runs off a timer every range session. Not everyone's brains work the same way and pistol shooting has a huge mental component.

>>33796489
Sounds like it will get punishing AF pretty fast, I'm down, I'll run it both ways for sure.

My first thought was to start at 9 yards to make the 16th shot a 25 yarder - I think I'm overrating myself kek

>>33796518

Eh. If we're moving in one yard increments... 1.5 seconds to make the draw, a half second to clean up the sight picture up close. You get a full second as the range expands. I dunno, I think it's pretty doable, but then again I've been dry firing to a 1/3 USPSA upper A zone for the past month or so.

>>33796531
I'm pretty confident for a 1.4-1.7 on the 3x5 at 7 yards...but yeah, pushing out past 10? I'm extrapolating some big failures on my part, we'll see...Already more pumped for this that DOT though TBQHSMH

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FWIW this is the last FBI qual I shot, it looks so much nicer than some others, but scores are scores and there's no aesthetic bonus points

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>>33796545

It's not bad. At a simulated 15 yards I had every shot off with time to spare at 2.5s, and many of them within 2.0s.

As an aside, fuck it's hard to get a good sight picture on a phone.

I'm out for the night. People to see, bad decisions to make.

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>>33796443
Salesman recommendation, hearing that a lot of guys preferred it to the regular DASA, and getting to compare them side by side. After handling both, and finally shooting mine today, I'd much rather have the LEM over a heavy DA and a light SA.

The LEM is basically a SA trigger weight with a DA travel, but it resets where a single action trigger would. When you let your finger off of the trigger, it "decocks" back to the precocked light DA. It makes a lot more sense when you shoot it or handle both variants.

>>33796669
I really ought to get a P30 to go with my SK.

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>>33796964
>The LEM is basically a SA trigger weight with a DA travel, but it resets where a single action trigger would

You are brand new to the system yet you understand it's merits clearly, well done sir.

It really is the best "practical" or "street" trigger system. dissenter's can feel how they want but fuck if it isn't consistent, controllable, easy, SAFE and FAST.

...Hoping I didn't just start a trigger war

>>33796982
since you got the holster for the former I'd say do eeeeeet - honestly AIWB basically makes carrying anything short of a Deagle EzPz

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>>33797008
I totally agree. I was kinda shocked how fast I could get without feeling like I was having to work the trigger hard, or like I was going to short shuck the trigger. It really is easy when you get used to it.

I just wish it was as crisp and light as the USP45T match trigger. I shot it immediately after shooting the sk, and it was like snapping fragile glass rods with my index finger.

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>>33797045
I've got a guy interested in buying my M&P9. If I can sell it, my bravo concealment holster, magazines, and whatever other swag for it I have lying around, I'd have a jump start on a P30.

>>33797084

Depending on how much you want to fuck around inside the gun, try adding a heavy (V2) trigger return spring.

>>33797084
Haha yep - the biggest negative of LEM is the creep - it's simply there (most of /k/ can't even feel or understand creep in live fire let alone dry fire), like it or not, is it deal breaking? fuck no I've had DA/SA CZs with similar amounts of creepp in SA (used to vary model to model before their new manufacturing equipment and standardization) .

That's a facet of why GGG and the p-f folks advocate not staging the trigger and shooting it like traditional DA, well just a small part.

Even though I still stage the trigger for 15+ yard work they are probs right, if I had better grip strength and endurance I would probably just rep it like a TDA, but I do stage at 15+ because frankly, I get tighter printing in the same times, come at me bros kek.

But 15 yards and in and I just smash that fucker straight to the rear and ride to the reset and repeat.

>>33727530
I know I should just replace them, but how do I prevent vertical stringing with shitty Glock factory sights?

The alignment is hard to get consistent for me. Left-right my group size is pretty darn good, half the size of a fist at 9 yards. But vertically the group is shit.

>>33797172

Not to be discouraging - but sounds like primarily a sight picture/timing issue, that said - a fiber optic or high vis front sight post with blocked out rears might help you ignore tertiary data and focus on the important tasks at hand.

>>33797172

Ok, here's the thing about OEM Glock sights:

They have a bucket and a ball. Your eye wants to center the ball in the bucket. Problem: when you do that, your front sight is a little high in the notch because Glock is dumb. A proper equal height/equal light sight picture will cut off part of the ball.

Always go with equal light/equal height. If it helps, sharpie over the rear sight's white lines.

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>>33797228
hmm

I know it's probably an odd question to ask, but is there any info on the Glock sight dovetail in case I want to try to make my own for shits and giggles?

>>33797350

I've never seen the dimensions, no. It's got to be out there somewhere though -- sight makers make sights, people like L&M Precision cut new dovetails when doing RMR cuts...

Shit

I hope I'm not out of line here I feel like you guys need to weigh in....

Can we scrap DOT for DOTM #2? what are your thoughts?

We are nearing the end of this month, and I can't see myself shooting DOT more than 3 times in the next 30 days - our thread gonna die...

sweet 16 seems viable, thoughts? not my rodeo, I NEED HELP

>>33797008
This.

https://pistol-training.com/archives/8549

iirc, Darryl Bolke avoided shooting a suspect that was a guy off his meds when the suspect's mother tackled him down just before Darryl completed the entire trigger pull on his LEM gun. This tends to happen a lot with DA/SA guns too.

>>33797959
I would like to skip Dot Torture, simply because I can shoot Sweet 16 on local ranges and I don't have to drive 3 hours to my farm to be able to do it.

Especially my normal shooting spot on my farm is underwater currently.

>>33798343
Good deal, well there are no vocal dissenters at this point, and to my knowledge you and me are the folks generally starting the threads, so let's plan on sweet 16 for the next thread, it just feels like it will garner more interest.

>>33800103
Agreed.

Kinda wish I'd shot it before though. Pretty much all my defensive pistol practice has been Casino drills.

>>33800103
I'm down for it.
>>33797991
That was a really good read.
>>33797120
I'm tempted to try this.
>>33797150
I'm gonna keep messing with it on the range. I can tell it won't be a difficult gun to shoot well with. I just need more trigger time.

>>33800160

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-reference-library/140436-definitive-p30-p30l-lem-trigger-chart.html

There's all the configurations you can do.

Dude, I'm finding P30s all over armslist for around $575. If I sell this M&P, I'm definitely buying one

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>>33800520
noice, we welcome you with open arms m8

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Going out again today. This is the only chance I have to try again before the deadline.

This time I will do a warm-up first, with some slow-fire practice also. We'll see what happens.

>>33802586
Godspeed.
Beat my P30sk.>>33791720

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>>33802586
Go get em tiger!

>tfw spring snow...inna desert

>>33802586
YOU CAN DO EET!

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I got like 80 fired today before the rain/sleet/snow ambushed me.

Starting last night I've been dry fire reping drawing and actually using the WML as intended.

I did...not great live fire, the hebbian plasticity just isn't there yet - the more I focused on hand position the worse my shots got, the more I focused on making my shots the less consistent I was on the light, and when I tried to focus on both, my hand speed suffered.

here's literally the 9th (and last) FAST in a row and the first one I did clean

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>>33803766
after samming 9 FASTs I went right in to Sweet 16, I FUCKING LOVE THIS DRILL

First attempt - I started at the 7 yard line (because of the familiarity with the 3x5 at 7 yards) my hits were all there, then I get to the 15 yard line and mentally imploded and miss 3 in a row, fuck me.

Second attempt - I started at the 10, I ran out of ammo on the 23 (My last shot was at the 22 and it was a hit). I'm not super proud of this run - but it went well I think, dropped 3 shots and none we repeat drops - I forget what distances they happened at but it was spread out.

This drill is great, it's low volume and teaches you a ton about acceptable sight picture and a gradient of ranges.

Then the rain/sleet ambushed me outta fuckin nowhere and it was time to pack it up unfortunately.

If the weather is agreeable tomorrow I'm going to start at the 15 yard line and feel it out.

Can't wait to see you wizards rock this, as always I think we should encourage duty/carry gun use but have an "open" division as well for those who want to fuck around.

I also like LAPDSWAT anons Idea of the timed draw and shoot aspect, I'll shoot that when I get comfortable with the slowfire and distances I'm capable of working in.

Pic related (I'm doing negative taping so the second attempt includes the hits from the first attempt)

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Contender anon / anyone else who beats me to the punch on the new thread -

Here's a Macro Image for the OP in the next thread to start off month 2, let's try to keep a consistent and relevant OP image

>>33804325
we are 11 posts from bump limit so I started a new thread - >>33804397

>>33804401

That link 404s for me. Image is really good though.

Should we put the Git Gud thing as part of the OP pasta?

>>33804325
>>33804401
>>33804425


FUCK had a typo in the macro image - NEW THREAD:

>>33804435

Yeah add Git Gud - fuck sorry m8