Is the SPR meme ever going to die? 5.56 is 5.56 is 5.56. Even

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>>33706266
>that scope
delicious
what's the name?

>>33706266
You had me up until

>is just a desperate attempt to prolong the life of an obsolete gun and an obsolete cartridge.

If you think the AR-pattern is obsolete, you need to delete yourself from life.

>>33706266
>look guys, I posted it again
this thread is pure bait

>>33706290

>Hurr durr people still use it.

Insurgents still use fucking Mosins, too. Are they cutting edge?

AR pattern goes bang, yeah, but there is infinitely better shit out there than baseline M4s.

>>33706333
I would really like to know which rifles come to mind that are vastly superior to the AR.

>>33706379
a 6.5 grendel

>>33706379

In just 5.56 (shit as it is)

BREN
Tavor
Sig 556
Literally ANY piston design. (No, piston ARs are not AR-15s. Change the operating system, change the gun.)

And, as stated, just about any .308 semi that exists.

>>33706388
Too slow

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>>33706379
SIG550
Its just not for poorfag armies.

>>33706398
>6.5 has better ballistic coefficient that 5.56 doesn't even dream of
> has only less 100 m/s of energy
>"too slow"
pls
>>33706395
>tavor
enjoy your lolnoMOA

>>33706379

this >>33706404
>more durable than AR
>more accurate than AR
>requires less cleaning than AR
>integrated bipod

I dont know what else someone would want, besides being cheaper.

>>33706395
>BREN
no bolt-open on last round like AR

>Tavor
no accuracy

>>33706407
>uses m/s to make 328 FPS look small

>>33706452
It's still small you imperial shitter

Nah, if they found themselves in a situation where they had to share ammo, the DMR/SPR I'd still a more mechanically accurate setup even with less than ideal ammo.

It doesn't matter since you're just here to voice ignorant opinions in hopes of inciting a flame war so whatever

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>>33706266
Is the EBR meme ever going to die?

7.62 is 7.62 is 7.62. Even with 175gr out of a 20" barrel, it's going to be outclassed by every .300WM ever fielded.

>BUT AMMO COMMONALITY WITH THE SQUAD
goes out the window when you're carrying match loads and everyone else is carrying standard rounds. Put one of their mags in your gun and you've just got a really heavy M14

>PROVEN MAN STOPPER
that the Army has been bitching about for decades, but brass is too invested.

Let's just face it, gents. The M14(including the one you built up and is totally going to change my mind, I'm sure) is just a desperate attempt to prolong the life of an obsolete gun and an obsolete cartridge.

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>>33706407
Slightly high bc, slightly lower velocity. Sounds like a wash.

>>33706504
but 300WM is too heavy?

>>33706512
Pushups are free

>>33706518
But not dumbells or chin up bars.

>>33706518
Wether you can 5 or 30 push ups lugging a 300WM rifle and 5 mags for a hike would still be miserable

>>33706531
>>33706512
Extremely similar weight to the EBR

>>33706531
>implying 30 push ups is a lot

>>33706395
>Bren
Reliability issues, meh accuracy, heavy, no LRBHO
>Tavor
Literally 2 pounds heavier than an M4, inaccurate as fuck
>Sig 556
Literally 2 pounds heavier than an M4

>>33706537
oh, in that case get an SR25

>>33706530
Go to a park.
Chin up bars everywhere

Yes you'll have to leave your house

>>33706531
>5 or 30 push ups
>5 or 30

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT? I seriously hope 30 pushups is not the maximum that everyone can do.

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>>33706544
>being a manlet dyel

>>33706565
We are talking about soldiers carrying heavy weapons here. Not civies

And parks cost money.

>>33706581
Then it's time for rifle PT

>>33706574
Then you're doing them wrong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IODxDxX7oi4

>>33706266
what gun is this (brand)

the solution is a cartridge that can fit in a AR15 magwell, but has performance more like a 7.62RFN. so soldiers just get issused 2 uppers, complete with BCG, charging handle, BUIS, and optics; and two sets of magazines.

then soldiers just change uppers and mags to suit their likely engagement range for the mission.

>>33706598
>Seriously defending your lack of ability to do more than 30.

I can do 50 on any day. Give me a fortnight and I'll have reached 70. I'm no uberman. You're just a slob.

>>33706593
Rifles cost money, though.

>>33706611
No, i can also do 40 push ups.

But everyone i hear boasting about their pushup count turns out doing them side-by-side (the wrong way) and i assumed you were doing them the wrong way.

>>33706388

but ARs come in 6.5 grendel

>>33706407
But that magical flippywhip thingy fiddyfivesicks does and the low recoil make it pretty badass

>>33706508
And you thought 855 icepicked due to poor velocity.

You need more powder behind it. Except you really don't because when you're dealing with insurgencies in major urban centers all that recoil isn't going to be worth it, and that's where everybody keeps telling me where going.

>>33706580
Sarge! Smith says he's not tired. Can we make him carry all the comm equipment again?

>>33706619
>thinking form is important

I don't care if you switch your style midway through. What matters is that you reach a respectable number of reps and that you are doing full pushups.

>>33706640
the high freq radios my first unit had.

>black
>at least 40 pounds
>about as big as 4 x-large pizza boxes stacked on top of each other.

it was not fun having to carry one of those up a mountain in Afghanistan to set up at a retrans site.

>>33706664
ever been through SFAS? they don't count a rep if you do it wrong.

>>33706284
It seems to be a Leupold just by looking at the logo. I don't know more than that.

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I have the army's solution.

>>33706465
No, it isnt. Its a pretty fucking huge difference.

>>33706703
>ever been through SFAS

Can't say that I have.

>>33706730
6.5G poops on 6.8 SPC for long range application

>>33706730
You mean the cartridge that, by the time it was developed because of inadequacies with early MK262 77gr ammo, those issues had been addressed and fixed?

>>33706266
Honestly, why not just go back to .30-06 for power at range and commonality?

>>33707136
It's only a marginal difference in power over 7.62x51 and you lose ammo capacity.

>>33706266
>obsolete gun
Ha, I was almost hooked. 7/10, you'll get plenty of replies

>>33707159
Well, then we better train our troops to stop fucking missing shots.

>>33707172
>Well, then we better train our troops to stop fucking missing shots.
The entire point of going from .30-06 to 7.62x51 to 5.56 was that round count wins fights.

>>33707180
Invest more in napalm.

>>33707180
>round count wins fights.
Up until you go too far down the size scale and find yourself without enough range, which is what happened and is still happening in the Middle East. High intermediate is where modern rifles should aim for. I think .264 / 6.5x48 is going a tad too far again this time in the direction of too much power, something somewhat milder might be best.

>>33707180
Does anyone kicking doors want to go back to these full size rounds? Is that not where we're expecting the next 50 years of instability to occur, urban settings?

I don't want to spend all that time and money designing a new bullet just to blow out fucking Afghanis...

>>33706630
>All that recoil
.308 doesn't have much though

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>>33706266
>He thinks that M855/SS109 is indicative of 5.56's capabilities.

You probably think that 9mm is shit because "your cousin that went to afghanistan shot a guy 30 times with his M9" and dont take into account he was using 124 gr FMJ.

>>33709213
Additionally, I think intermediate cartridges are perfectly fine for modern US military doctrine.

Intermediates are perfectly capable of killing shit 300 and in. If it's beyond 300m, why shoot it when you can blow it the fuck up?

Then again I'm just speculating here.

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>>33706395
>BREN

Stopped reading there.
You don't have a fucking clue.

t. Czech serviceman

>>33706441
>>33706544

The BREN does have LRBHO and a bolt catch. It just doesn't work as a release, you have to use the charging handle.
It's still retarded but much less retarded than not having LRBHO at all.

>>33706395
>Tavor
Implying any bullpup is better than an AR

>>33709007
Hell of a lot easier to double tap a 4" circle at 25y with .223 than .308.

>>33706531
Odds are your .300wm will be lighter than the EBR - because you know the damned thing weighs as much if not more than a SAW

>>33709784
Not that hard with a modern .308

>>33706608
They aren't going to carry that shit. That idea has come along and died with several rifles because it's retarded

>>33706608
this is the stupidest thing in the thread

>>33706608
Don't laugh. That's what fags think is gonna happen with muh modular p320

>>33706593
Rifle PT doesn't even do anything for you, dingus. It just sucks for the sake of sucking. That's why Drill Sergeants and Drill Instructors make boots do it, because it fucking sucks.

>>33709230
Shrapnel.

>>33706266
>Is the SPR meme ever going to die?
It already has. DMR-type rifles are used instead afaik.

>>33706284
Mk6? Not a current version however, with no pinch lock turrets.

>>33706504
>scope mounted sky high
>cheek raiser all the way up
WHY?

>>33706333
But the SPR isn't a baseline M4. Most ARs aren't basic M4s actually.

>>33706266
I need to know what handstop that is.

>>33706266
I dont thinks it's a meme, but people think it's like an actual sniper boltgun when in fact it's exactly what it claims to be; a 5.56 rifle with better optics and target identification. The problem is people expect 5.56 to suddenly be great when shot out of a full lenght heavy barrel.

>>33709230
If it's beyond 300m then your section MG should be picking it up. If it's within 300m your MG should pick it up also. Basically your section MG does most of the shooting.

>>33706683
Kek, this.
>going innawoods for SERE training
>PFC Chubbs volunteers for radio duty because "muh glider flying hobby"
>has to lug around one of those heavy packpack radios for the next four days
>fails at comma because both his English and encryption/authentication table usage are trash tier
>have to play interpreter while he figures out which button to press
>female radio operator of pickup helicopter is equally trash
>We pop a smoke and get picked up without authentication or encryption
>shortly after the pickup we get sim "shot down"
>have to keep walking to a new pickup location
Ebin

>>33711315
who said anything about carry?

you would outfit either for the whole deployement or at the deployed base for that particular mission. the unused upper, ammo, and mags would stay behind.

>>33712342
everyone knows they aren't going to use the modular capability. they are only getting the carry frame and the full sized slide, in 9mm.

they had crazy ass requirements. that only the 320 fit. when they should have just got the S&W MP 9 and the Shield 9 for that CID conceal carry requirement.

>>33713776
>who said anything about carry?
How will all those extra uppers, mags, and ammo get to the FOB? What other mission essential items or creature comforts could be brought in for the same weight/fuel cost? Going through that much effort for a fucking individual rifle when MGs, IDF, and planes do the majority of the killing in a battle/firefight is like wiping before you shit. Your priorities are ass backwards.

>>33706395
Okay, not this guy.

But I'd like to point out that a lot of these can be summed up with "superior EXCEPT FOR!"

And no, aftermarket is NOT and NEVER WILL BE a legitimate reason for superiority.
We all know there are guns out there superior to Glocks that have zero aftermarket, but are still superior.

The same can be said of AR killers.

Anyways, the Tavor might be as good if not better except for the accuracy issues.
The AUG needs some modernization and it will be superior.
The BREN needs some more refining and QC stuff (czechservicebro, your BREN and the American BRENs are made on different lines; people have discussed this before)
SCARs, ACRs, XCRs, etc.
They all have shitloads of potential and the sad thing is that most will die in the cradle because of startup costs and "you could have just bought four ARs" people

The AR will always be superior until someone spends the cash and starts buying guns that have no aftermarket and demanding aftermarket for them.
It's that fucking simple.
Now if it was only for this whole problem of money...

And I'd like to take a moment and remind people.
There was a one when Garands reigned supreme, M14s reigned supreme, Springfield trap doors, Krags, and many many more reigned supreme, and each one was so sure of its superiority that one day someone went "fuck you" and bought the next gun anyways and it prospered for a while until the next gun came along.

I honestly think the AR is approaching the end of its lifespan because of the elitism and "just get an X" attitude of people.
Fairly soon we'll see someone get spiteful and be the next cheap gun that gets aftermarket and poorfags to hold it high as their champion of arms.

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>>33706266

>>33713853
>There was a one when Garands reigned supreme, M14s reigned supreme, Springfield trap doors, Krags, and many many more reigned supreme
And each one became obsolete when a newer generation came along that did something that the previous one didn't. Garands were killed by box mags, Trap doors by repeaters, repeaters by semi-auto. There's nothing that does something an AR doesn't, they all do the same thing, only differently. So you go with the one that is lighter, more modular, and has an entire market to draw from. The AR.

>>33713881
Different designs mean different areas to draw weight from and the push to being ambidextrous has been an area of great shortcomings for the AR pattern of rifle compared to a purpose built ambidextrous gun.
Given time I think that with more ambidextrous guns coming to the market people will see "hey, these are awesome" and won't really look back too much.

>tl;dr, the AR doesn't take to being ambidextrous well where other guns do

>>33713881
Problems of AR:
1. dumb charging handle
2. lmao bolt punching button
3. MUH AR MAGWELLS completely stifling the development of new calibers because they keep trying to stuff them into the same mags and ejection ports
4. also its a long magwell which really doesn't help with compatibility and working with unconventional mags like drums and quad stacks
5. buffer tube preventing use of folding stocks unless its a pseudo-AR variation
6. not bullpup, inherent limits on design potential when bullpuppies finally get all their trigger and ejection problems fixed forever

All of which are solvable with current technology but nobody has put it all together in an affordable non-vaporware package yet.

>>33706703
No, but I've made it past both RASP and Ranger School where they would literally laugh at you if you only did 40 push ups. Actually I know guys who *have* been to SFAS and know for a fact they did a lot more then 40.

You're just a weak body.

>>33713910
Ambi selectors, magazine releases, and charging handles are all readily available. I'm an ambidextrous shooter and often shoot my stock ar left handed and have very little trouble with any controls as is.

>>33706388
6.5mm Creedmoor master race.

>>33713730
GG&G barricade stop

>>33706379
SCAR.

>>33706395
>Change the operating system, change the gun

Change the scope, change the gun.
Change the trigger, change the gun.
Change the barrel, change the gun.
Change the furniture, change the gun.
Change the ammo, change the gun.
Change the material, change the gun.

You understand how you stupid you sound?

>>33714191

>An M14 is literally a Garand.
>A Hi-Power is literally a 1911
>A Glock is literally a grenade
>A SCAR is literally a flintlock
>A Tank is literally a Model T
>A F-16 is literally a biplane

>>33714191
You're fucking retarded
>going from a gasoline engine to an electric motor is the same as changing your tires :DD

>>33714211
>>An M14 is literally a Garand.
>>A Hi-Power is literally a 1911
unironically true

>>33714037
>Problems of AR:
>1. dumb charging handle
>2. lmao bolt punching button
Not a problem but a features.

>3. MUH AR MAGWELLS
This. 5.56x45 is royaly fucked by short ogive length of the bullet and as result bad BC. And no space for growth.

Magazines suck.

>5. buffer tube preventing use of folding stocks unless its a pseudo-AR variation
Yes though not a big issues.

Also:
Flimsy design of the BCG.
Action is too fast.
Rate of fire is too high.
No monolithic top rail.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?62889-SCAR-vs-AR-A-detailed-look

>>33714191
You don't think that maybe the basic operating mechanism is intrinsically tied to the identity of the firearm?

>>33714217
>engine
>gasoline
>electric
>anywhere close

You do understand how fucking stupid you sound. Levels of stupid only capable of Tumblr stupid. You're practically comparing fuel (or ammo) for a motor upgrade.

>>33714246

... are you under the impression that electric and gasoline motors operate in the same fashion?

>>33706333

Mosin still has the highest singular kill count of any semi-auto rifle model.

>>33714238
Congrats, you know what that's called?

A receiver, look it up.

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>>33714191
>All guns are AR-15s

Pic related, it's just an AR-15 pistol in .38 special with a revolving mechanism.

Remember, changing the ammo doesn't change the gun, nor does changing the operating mechanism.

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I can quickly make first round hits on man sized targets at 300 yards without any difficulty from an unsupported position with 62gr ball
I can connect to a man sized target out to 600 yards within 2-3 rapid shots from prone position.
I can provide accurate sustained harassing/suppressive fire at 800 yards.
I can easily carry 270 rounds in my rifle and on my rig, and an additional 300 in my pack.
You don't want to be hit with a 5.56.

All that being said, I do prefer my PTR91 with 147gr ball for "malitiaman" type duties. I carry less ammunition, but every round is more effective. Intermediate rounds serve a key role in small unit tactics, and if you are acting alone I recommend carrying an intermediate caliber long arm, often times shooting a shitload of small bullets toward your enemy is more effective than shooting a big bullet and actually connecting.

>>33714263

>Not hitting a bunch of times is better than killing them.
>If you kill your enemy, they win.

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>>33714250
I'm under the impression they don't. Using ammo might've been a bit vague and oversimplifying, because that's more of comparing gas and diesel than gas and electric.

Back to the topic though, a piston only changes what's pushing the bolt back in place, not the internal mechanisms of what is being fired off.

>>33706465
You think an extra football field worth of travel per second is a "small" difference? You're an idiot.

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>>33714252

>Semi-Auto

>>33714238
The receiver extension, buffer, buffer spring, firing pin, bolt carrier, bolt, and fire control group all interact with each other identically. The gas key, gas tube, and gas block are swapped for whatever manner of piston. That's a significant alteration, but still not incredible.

Would you consider a folding stock FAL completely different from a fixed stock FAL because the recoil mechanism isn't interchangeable?

>>33714232
The AR platform is one of the few modern rifles that still have the same "face in the way of bolt" problem that most bolt actions had back in the day, except this time it's just the charging handle. It's awkward position also makes it harder to keep a firm hold of the gun if you want to lock the bolt open to clear a malfunction. Definitely not a benign feature.

>>33706266
>implying killing is better than wounding

You hit someone with 5.56 they go down screaming and their buddies come out of their safe spaces to try help them out and you can hit them too. Worse case scenario the fighter that you hit is out of action and it takes a lot of your enemies resources to get him back in action or he just dies.

You hit someone with 7.62 they die and that's about it.

>>33714263
>accurate
>at 800 yards
>5.56 NATO

From a 24" barrel on a nice day with significant shooter skill maybe. Let's not pretend 5.56 NATO from a rifle made to be used somewhere other than a bench is supersonic much past 700 yards.

>>33714272
>t. Someone who has never been in combat
Trust me, hearing that CRACK, or seeing dust clouds being kicked up a few feet or yards from you will make even the most hardcover radical quickly rethink his actions.

>>33714385
You aren't a designated marksman. Your job isnt to connect every singpe round. Accuracy for a rifleman at 800 yards is hitting within a yard or so of your target, and likely connecting at somepoint during your magazine.
Hundreds of rounds being fired at an enemy advance with relitive accuracy is much more efficient at repelling an enemy advance, than 3 rounds hitting 3 targets.

>>33714359
It is "sealed gun" feature. AR charging handle don't have parts exposed which will go inside gun when handle is used. Side charging handles drag mud inside gun. It may not a big issue but you can see this principle consistently applied all over AR. It is sealed box.

>>33714437
>hardcover
*hardcover

Autocorrect makes a good point I didn't even intend on bringing up. For defeating cover any more than sheet metal or a 2x4, you want a .30 caliber rifle, preferably inside 300 yards. 5.56 will bounce off bricks, trees, glass, and just about everything else. In Iraq my firearm engaged insurgents behind a cinder block wall. That's 6 men firing at the cover they were behind for several minutes and it was completely ineffective. Our 240 gunner spit a 100 round belt into the wall and tore it down in seconds.

>>33714485
***hardcore***

Goddammit phone

>>33714437
>I'm right if I alter the definition of a word to suit my use of it
It's almost like you misrepresented what you meant because you couldn't otherwise describe what you meant...accurately.

A cartridge shouldn't be considered for 800 yards if you're dialing your dope high enough that you can't see the impact in the dirt.

>>33714502
Are you really retarded enough to not understand the concept of what harassing/suppressing fire is?

>>33714218
> bhp literally a 1911

False. Bhp camming design is objectively superior to 1911 swinging link - and it has been adopted by almost every modern pistol. No grip safety, bushing fixed to slide, need i go on?

M14 utilizes piston not op rod. Major advantage and difference right there

>>33714272
>I have no idea how infantry engagements have worked for the last 100 years
t. you

>>33706395
>Tavor

Fuking lel.
Why do we let noguns post on here again?

>I constantly need to go past 5-6 hundred yards

Armchair commando

>>33714375
>5.56mm isn't designed to kill as a priority

Can we stop with the retard science?

>>33714442
I can see how it might reduce the size of the hole for dirt to get in. Still think it's a clunky design and there may be other ways to do it.

lmao charging turnkey on HK G11

>>33714211
>Glock is a grenade


Dubs confirm it

>>33714275
You're more dense than the bullets in the gun you don't own

>>33715638
Target the argument, not the writer you fucking pleb.

>>33706395

>tavor
>better than AR/M16

Holy shit kek

>>33706266
>he doesn't know the military switched to an intermediate cartridge
Tl;Dr the infantry doesn't shoot at the enemy until they are with in 300 meters, you don't need a full sized .30 caliber cartridge for that, 5.56 is perfectly fine for that. If the military wanted a 7.62 semi auto scoped rifle to supplement the M4/M16s, they should use AR-10s

>>33709244
what did you do to bren-chan~???

>>33714191

M8 pls

>>33714238

Nuh uh if you put an hk roller delayed blowback action in an AR receiver it's still an AR since for some reason >>33714255 thinks the upper receiver is what makes an AR, an AR

>>33714252

>mosin nugget
>semiautomatic


Pardon

>>33706730
>>33707099
The .277 Wolverine is the solution you have been looking for

>>33706664
Form is important fatass. I could do a thousand push ups if I were doing bitch push ups on a knee like you apparently love doing

>>33709244
>It just doesn't work as a release, you have to use the charging handle
The Bren 2 has a release

>>33715696
Legally speaking, the lower receiver is what makes an AR an AR. Take that as you will.

>>33715748

Yeah but the bolt and carrier and gas tube are in the upper receiver and that action is what makes it an AR

Why doesn't the army just buy a thousand AR-10s, hand them out to half the people in a bunch of squads, and compare them side-by-side to the M4 in the same engagements, in the same war, so we can stop trying to extrapolate which is better using data from totally different conflicts?

>>33716553
>M110
>MK11/SR25
The military has been using AR10 derivatives for almost 30 years now.

>>33716686
For sniper/DMR purposes, yes. I'm talking about a carbine for front line troops to see if the average rifle squad benefits from the larger rounds or not.

>>33706266
>5.56 is 5.56 is 5.56
Confirmed retard. What components are used is an extremely important consideration for any caliber.

>>33716833
If the people actually doing the fighting thought they'd be useful in that role then they would have used them like that already. So there's your answer.

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Were going to the Moon!
http://www.militarytimes.com/articles/socom-is-looking-at-a-new-65mm-round-for-its-sniper-rifle
>Maj. Aron Hauquitz told Military Times Tuesday that SOCOM is in the preliminary stages of exploring a sniper rifle chambered in the 6.5 mm caliber. The two commercially available rounds being evaluated are the .260 Remington and the 6.5 mm Creedmoor.

>>33716930
>generals taking the opinions of grunts seriously
>ever

If that's how this worked we would have ditched 5.56 after or during Vietnam, idiot

>>33706284
probably a MK8

>>33718305
Well considering that the IOTV, all the counter IED measures that were invented in the field and later adopted, the up armor kits for vehicle, and new camo were all a result of soldiers feedback I'd say you're a fucking retard.

>>33706395
>All these meme rifles

>mfw retards are literally regressing to the 1950s meme of "MUH .30 FULL POWAHD ROUND"
How did it come to this?

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>>33707099
the best choice in 6.5 has been around for over a century.

>>33714172
I know they exist.
I addressed that in my post.

It can be "ambi" but it's not purpose built for it and tends to pale in comparison to purpose built ambi guns.

>>33718817
AR ambidextrous lowers are just fine when done right. Knights lowers are a great example.
>inb4 too expensive
They cost as much as the rifles you're comparing them to.

>>33706290
ar-15 is obsolete
ar-10 however...

>>33709244
Why is it not glass fibre reinforced?

>>33718788
>not 6.5x55

Anon, come on now...

So I started this thread to see how many people could convince me to get an AR and mod it to SPR.

You failed.

AR-15 confirmed obsolete. Getting my takedown bolt action instead.

Unless the US unshackles from NATO thereby invalidating STANAG or we manage to convince European governments that don't give a fuck about their militaries to adopt a new round we're going to have a hard time fielding a new general issue rifle caliber. If we're talking about only the marksmen in particular then carry on then.

>>33723065
Not a bad option either. You sure you want .223 though? Browning makes a take down lever in a lot of useful calibers.

(You should still probably have a semi-auto rifle at some point though.)

>>33723451
>You sure you want .223 though? Browning makes a take down lever in a lot of useful calibers.

At least a grand, though. I'm going for the low-cost option. I split the money that was gonna go into the AR and a new barrel into two project guns. The takedown .223 bolt from Mossberg and a CVA single shot .243 I want to turn into a semi-precision backpack/emergency food gun.

>>33723451
>(You should still probably have a semi-auto rifle at some point though.)

and I've got 4.