Shits Gettin serious

>>33704527
Awesome.
Good luck on the project, man.

>>33704527
What is it now:
Sten derivative with updated design.
>closed bolt blowback
>feed ramp
>improved reliabilitah
>longer barrel
>striker fired
>fixed barrel, removeable stock
>hook saftey

What its gonna be:
same as prior but with these changes
>removable barrel for takedown and stow capability (but not flimsy like most takedown rifles)
>updated to use modern 9mm mags (colt smg magazines to be specific)
>hammer fired replacing the striker
>modern saftey

>>33704527
FIrst off, thread theme.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bWu-OtxLe7k

Second, will you be offering a bipodless railless version?

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>>33704560
How immah do it:
Fuckin lasers!

Im gonna get a laser cutter with rotary axis to crank out reciever tubes and small parts, and a cnc machine to make the bolts. Im gonna have to source the barrels but I expect costs to still be acceptable.

So im gonna have to get licensed by the ATF obviously, then im gonna set up an LLC and get some liability insurance.

To start with I will make a limited run of 100 rifles, which I will sell at $425 a piece. I will also offer complete ready to go sten recievers for peoples DIY sten projects as well as the assorted small parts.

So, whaddya guys think?

>>33704568
Yes, the bipod was just for fun. I think my main line will have a small sight rail on top but it would be no big deal to make a more traditional variant alongside the main product line with an original style horizontal feeding magazine but still using modern mags.

>>33704597
at that price id buy one desu id buy possibly more. How are the standard iron sights going to look like btw?

you should design the barrel like a male to female hose fitting so it sits flush and is secured against the frame by a nut basically

>>33704560
>modern
why colt smg mags
the logical choices seem like uzi or glock mags

>>33704617
>horizontal mags
Aw hell naw, PLEASE NO.

The only reason I haven't built myself a sten kit Is because of those awful horizontal mags.

Also, perhaps you would work out a 5.7x28 version that ejects from the top and takes P90 mags?

Mag compatibility isn't a breach of copyright as long as you use FN made mags, right?

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>>33704623
Im still workin on it, cuz theres a lot of ways to go with it that would work.

Im thinking an AR or AK style set up, and it will have a 6" rail on top for a light optic. This thing is suprisingly accurate, in one of my previous threads I shot this group at 100 yards with it, and it holds functional groups out to 150 (smaller than a mans abdominal kill-zone).

This thing is accurate enough to justify a holographic optic.

>>33704642
Glock mags require too much modification and work to the magwell and bolt for me to make a profit, colt mags are more common and less expensive than uzi mags, though uzi mags would work too.

>>33704648
Dont worry, it would be like, 1 out of 20 are built more like a traditional sten, if that. Ive had enough people express interest in one that looked more period-authentic to justify it.

>>33704685
its the other way around im pretty sure

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>>33704560

Neat.

Have you given any thoughts to making it so you can swap out parts for various calibers?

I remember that one of the Army's demands for the M-3 Grease Gun was that it be able to be easily rechambered from .45 ACP to 9mm which due to the simple design of the M3 required only the bolt, the barrel and the magazines to be swapped.

Could the same be done for a Sten?

Is a .357 mag version possible technically ?
Or a 10mm ?

>>33704694
Yeah, yer right. I havent built the 2nd updated prototype yet, and input like that is going to be applied to the design.

I need to work out the magwell and bolt grooves for each and see which ends up being best. Ive actually been on the fence about it myself and decided whichever design turns out to be the most mechanically sound and reliable is the one its gonna get.

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>>33704721

10mm would be easy its a pistol round like 9mm, .357 mag is rimmed, that would be more difficult though I suppose it could be done.

>>33704629
Well due to the bushings that hold it in I figured I would have it slot into the rear bushing and front bushing, but the front bushing would thread into the front of the reciever. Just unscrew the bushing on the front like a pipe-cap and pop the barrel out. It would take-down to a package about 6" wide, 2" thick, and 18 inches long.

>>33704723
Any other rounds you've considered using? Or are you fairly dead set on 9mm?

>>33704708
You would need to have a different bolt, and different magazine well, This design could not accomodate that, not at $425 anyways.

I actually toyed with the idea but it would cost about $650 to make, the idea here is to be inexpensive so average joes can buy em and not kill thier wallet.

>>33704721
Is it possible? Yeah. But nobody makes magazines for those calibers that would readily lend itself to my rifles layout.

Maybe if this thing works out and im starting to profit and not be worried about startup i could toy with it, but for now its in 9mm.

>>33704787

>But nobody makes magazines for those calibers that would readily lend itself to my rifles layout.

What other calibers would readily lend itself to the design? Fuddy Five?

>>33704527
Does it have a feedramp now and will you offer a pistol version that I can sbr later?

>>33704762
9mm right now, Im getting started up and I got about enough push to get one rifle on the market. The limited edition horizontal mag variant for guys into that idea doesnt really count as a different design cuz its the same in every way except the magwell hole is rotated 90°.

Keep in mind its not 9mm out of a 4, 5, or 6 inch barrel. Its a full 16.5 inch barrel, its got between 1200 and 1700fps (dependant upon brand and bullet grain) thats a bit of a different ballgame than yer average 9mm pistol is dealing with.

Plus 9mm is cheap, its light enough for squirrels or rabbits, but also fine for deer or people if you really had to. Especially with the effects of aforementioned barrel.

>>33704836
I'll buy one b, keep us updated

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>>33704835
Making it a pistol is literally as easy as popping the stock off, attaching a pistol grip (theyre modular and ww2 surplus paratrooper grips will fit and cost like $20). You could even swap out for a 9 inch barrel. It could be converted into a pistol in about 30 seconds. (Or an sbr but only if you pay the fun police thier $200 stamp)

>>33704836
I would want one with the sideways magazine. There's a market for em

>>33704836
I'm gonna have to finish paying off some debt but if you're gonna take about a year to get up and running I'll probably buy one of the basic model.

$425 for a pcc is an absolutely butter proposition, especially if it's based on a sten.
Imagine a suppressor for this.

>>33704835
Oh, yeah, its got a feed ramp now (I kludged the shit outta it but it works.) New design will have one too, only not of the current ad-hoc tool-rom protype quality.

In my experiments I located the source of the sten's infamous jam factory charecteristics. Its a combination of the shitty mags and the lack of a feed ramp.

>>33704869
Im imagining selling drop-in integrally supressed barrels for it if the HPA goes through.

Would fit all nicey nicey inside the barrel shroud in the 9 inch space between the two bushings. Best part is, the other 7 inches of barrel would look normal, no can hanging off it to give you away as some evil ninja with his baby-killer brand silencer.

Supressed rifle that hides its can inside the barrel shroud.

>>33704879

Yeah I saw one of your vids, good shit. Where would I get a 9 inch barrel?

>>33704560

Weight?

>>33704902
Absolutely beautiful.
Breeki, I truly wish you the best and hope I have the cash when you start selling.

Please tell me you'll sell some stuff via gunbroker.
I don't want to bother having to set up credit shit or PayPal for this.

Am hype, will buy.

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>>33704527
>>33704560
That is impressive m8. It all sounds and looks great. How long does it take you to manufacture one?

>>33704909
Ww2 surplus ought to fit with only slight modification, i might sell em seperate ready to go too.

>>33704937
Bout 7 pounds.

>>33704980
This, would actually really love to have an item like this with a quirky backstory to its birth

>>33704948
Im planning on setting up my own website, but I think money order would be accepted.
>>33705014
Still gotta get the get the CNC machine and Laser cutter set up to find out first.

>>33704836
9mm right now is just fine.

A 10mm version would get me even wetter...keep us posted on this plx

>>33704980
>>33705070
I plan to announce the first batch of 100 for sale on here before I sell em anywhere else.

Maybe engrave "ave nex alea" onto the ones I sell to /k/ommandos, cuz I mean, the laser cutter can do engraving too....

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>>33705094
Built the whole thing with advice from here, it looked like this when I came here with it.

Will most definiteley keep everyone posted.

>>33705097
Would be pretty much the coolest gun i'd own. In my own opinion of course.

will production models have any form of irons or cover for the stock and grip? even in semiauto i doubt that's comfy at all.
looks fuckin neat. what about parts kits?

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>>33705097
>>33705077
>>33705109
Keep it up brother, you are a force for good in these dark times.

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>>33705070
I got a wacky backstory for ya, I came up with it on post in Iraq outside of ramadi about 18 months ago.

I thought "why the FUCK are PCC's so fuckin expensive?" and then started really thinking. The idea has evolved from there since and I am a free man with my DD214, ready to do a veteran startup that ISNT an offensive T-shirt company.

>>33705139
yeah, final model will have iron sights, Its actually a remarkably comfy stock, plus it knocks about $80-100 off the end price.

>>33705145
I'm a realist, there could be setbacks or delays, right now the plan is to begin manufacture in about 12 months, hopefully nothing goes wrong and I can pull it off.

Hold up, I don't understand. I wasn't in the original thread. What's so special about what you're doing?

About that laser cutter.
you would need a pretty hardcore one, what wattage are you looking at?

Laser cutters are generally shit at cutting metal, since its relatively conductive and needs really high temp, so you'll basically anneal the metal by cutting, if it cuts at all.

industry usually uses water jets and similar for cutting shit

>>33705206
can confirm.
i would say use oxy-acet or plasma but I don't think you like riding a grinder for 12 fucking hours

>>33705197

Cheap pcc that isn't garbage

>>33704648
horizontal mags are cool to us frogmen

Have you considered a comb stock version?

>>33705109
the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

ever forward, my friend

>>33705206 introduced the motion
>>33705215 seconded the motion

motion carried. water knife it is.

>>33705184
I'm sure you will have your struggles but in the end it will get off the ground. Have you started getting investors? At least talking to friends and family about helping you get this off the ground. Hell, you could even get a kickstarter going as cliche as thst may sound.

>>33705206
>>33705215
150w CO2 laser, these recievers are under 1mm thick, laser will cut it just fine.

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>>33705162
I will miss all those stupid shirts at the gunshows. With Trump all I see is people trying to jack off to pictures of the gipper, like that bastard is some damn gun rights saint.

>>33705247

Kickstarter would probably work.

>>33705247
well my fiance turned out to be hiding that she was rich.... so yeah. I got backing.

>>33704862
In pistol form with a mag that large does that count as a vertical fore grip?

>>33705162
>veteran startup that ISNT an offensive T-shirt company.
HAH! Good on ya komrade

I'd get one and try to design my own wood stock for it. I have a thing for wood

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>>33705278
>>33705296
Don't forget to save your receipts and register your business. Tax deductions can be pretty legit.

>>33705324
go for it, I kinda built these things to be simple and easy to fix, maintain and modify. Obviously Im gonna be under an LLC and terms of agreement to purchase will hold me not-liable for anything resulting from your experiments, but if you just wing it and go slowly Im sure everything will be fine.

>>33705328
of course, I gotta get a good lawyer too, in case some stupid shit happens.

>>33704836
I'll buy one for me and one for my brother. And one for my grandad. And one for my dad.
Seriously, this design looks very fun, and cheap.

Op this is a really good idea. I would/will buy one as soon as they're available. F don't listen to some of these mongs who want it in goofy calibers (5.7?). 9mm, +p would be amazing. KISS!!!! Good luck my man!!!!

>>33704527
Have you submitted it to the ATF for approval?

>>33705391
It most certainly is, just small enough to be a cheap plinker, just big enough to do serious stuff with, just cheap enough to not feel bad about abusing it, and well made enough that it can actually stand up to the abuse.

I shot the shit outta my prototype, my dad loves it so much hes kinda defacto-stolen it.

>>33705451
Thats part of what the next 12 months will entail.

>>33705461
well you had better submit it now if you want it approved in the next 12 months

>>33705403
Thought about making it in 7.62x25 tok, almost the perfect PCC caliber. But theres no mags for it, and it aint cheap like 9mm is.
Making a cheap gun that fires somewhat pricey ammo seems kinda oxy-moronic.

Guys, I do need some input on something though.

How can I put a finish on these in a cost effective and timley manner?

>>33705494
IIRC, Hot blueing is pretty cheap once you make the initial investment into the stuff for it.

>>33705494
>>33705507
And alternatively, there's always the good ole' black grill paint.

>>33705507
Was thinking about it. I think I could cut down cost by building the tanks and heating element myself.

No way to get around buying the chemicals. Honestly finishing and coating isnt a talent or skill of mine, probably have some experimenting to do.

>>33705523
Heh, thats what my prototype is finished with. But lets be honest, thats not a consumer grade practice.

>>33705525
Bluing is cheap in the long run but you need some type of propane or natural gas burner
It takes a very large setup and it's arguable if it's worth it
I would go parkerizing since it's simpler and a more durable finish
Or make it easy and just duracoat them and have no worry about rust

>>33705494
Just a Thought, but you could sell the parts kits and possibly even some of the finished guns in the white. Let people blue or duracoat their own. Like I said, just a thought.

Nutnfancy would love it. Everything fde.

>>33705538
a black parkerizing would took nice

>>33705574
parkerizing is never black
It's either light grey are dark grey depending on what kind you use

>>33705538

I would buy the meme FDE duracoat, but black would be cool too.

Or make it green and black and market it to /pol/.

>>33705584
or just buy matte black in bulk at deal pricing and do them all and if the customer wants to change it, they can

>>33705538
Yeah, I kinda need to do a cost/profit analysis on it. Im trying to keep the price below 500. Im sure if I make enough of them and use the right process it will balance out.
>>33705571
I was planning on selling the recievers and some small parts in the white.

>>33705599
you can do an entire gun for under $25 cost and if you GIT GUD I'm sure you can keep that extra $75 above wage cost

>>33705599

You should have a decent profit margin if you are making them more expensive than what hi-point charges.

>>33705604
$25 a gun aint bad, I ought to experiment with it a bit and see which finish looks best first though.

>>33705614
Yeah, I need to do it right, so that I make enough to reinvest and make more rifles AND expand my shop, hire people, begin advertising, set up deals with distributors.

>>33705620
it's pretty hard to experiment with parkerizing and bluing if you don't have a setup

and if you buy the setup, you're not experimenting anymore

Sandblast and park or duracoat is your best bet

>>33705643
I was thinking my experiments would be taking a reciever and barrel and taking them to somebody who has the equipment and just swallowing the cost of getting one of each blued, parkerized, and duracoated as research expense.

>>33705654
or just go look at guns that are blued/black oxide coated, parkerized, and duracoated

No reason to pay for looking

>>33705599
So you remember those stens that were imported back in the early/mid 2000s that had a black spackle finish? Maybe look into that, could be a possibility.

>>33705403
>don't listen to those stupid fuckers who want it in cool calibers

Man, I dunno what you're smoking, but once 9mm has been done and is firmly rooted, we need 5.7x28 or better yet 7.62 tokerev that uses PPS-43 mags.

>>33705842
>expensive caliber with zero mag compatibility
>expensive caliber with zero mag availability

>>33705845
>expensive caliber if bought from the wrong stores with $15 mags that hold a shitload of them and are low profile and sexy

>cheap as dirt mags and ammo that's also quite cheap while being one of the best PCC cartridges ever invented

Fuck you.
I'm not saying dot do 9mm.
But why the hell should he NOT do 5.7 and 7.62 tokerev?

>>33705851
>>expensive caliber if bought from the wrong stores

I guess my local stores are the wrong ones then

>with $15 mags

Never said anything about price

> that hold a shitload of them and are low profile and sexy

That doesn't change the fact that he would need to completely redesign the gun to even fucking work with the magazines you inept retard

Tokarev is near unobtanium now and it offers no advantage over 9mm

>m-muh AP capability

Yeah whatever cunt
When you go up against someone with armor, let me know
I'll take my cheap and available hollow points and general ammo instead of a meme caliber

>>33705851
>But why the hell should he NOT do 5.7 and 7.62 tokerev?
because the entire gun would need to be redesigned to fit them, and they're niche cartridges few people use, and they're meme rounds
this would honestly be a good SHTF gun since it's retard simple and could be easily minimized in weight and size, and if I have a little SHTF carbine, I want it in one of the most universal calibers ever.
that said, a 45acp version would be nice

so how would buying one of these work? would it have to get shipped to an ffl?

Cool, I guess. But at that price point it's going to get absolutely shit on by the competition.

>>33705857
>>33705861
Of he has the semi auto closed bolt mechanism already worked out then the "design" aspect would require exactly the same effort as making your .45 version you want.

Part of the reason it's not used by many people is that the guns chambered for it are expensive as hell and there's only a few of them.
Add to the lineup and it won't be so rare.

the cartridge is NOT expensive when found in the correct places, and offers a nice caliber for plinking and long range squirrel hunting.

I still don't get why you're so damn opposed to it.
It's like being pissed that someone offers polymer furniture, or that someone still offers .45 as a caliber option.
Someone else likes it. You don't.
Go voice your opinions to a fucking mirror so you have someone who gives a shit.

>>33704527
will canada ever see any of these?
what does it take to get something like this to sell in another country?
heck, how do you even start producing a firearm for the purpose of selling outside of your native country?

>>33705876
sure, but think of it this way
>spend 400
>get retard simple tube gun perfect for SHTF
>easy to chop down on both sides
>easy to mechanically understand
>more than likely easy to turn into full fun
>uses a ubiquitous round
it's pretty much perfect. it would only be better if it accepted glock mags instead of colt smg ones.

>>33705884
you realize the bolt is specialized to rotate the P90 magazine, right?

As in he would have to specially design the feeding and bolt to work with your stupid idea, right?

>>33705884
I'd also like to point out Hain that I never said NO 9MM, DONT MAKE 9MM LEL, MAEK 5.7 FÜR ULTRA OPR8R!!!!!!!11111!!!1111

I simply said it would be fun and cool.
You can't tell me that the though of a bison style reload doesn't sound like fun.
Or an itty bitty tube gun that you can pop the stock off of (or even better fold eventually) and have it come to the size and shape of, say, a small backpack with a tube sticking out of it.
No it wouldn't be a SHTF gun but that's what the 9mm version is for.

>>33705902
>You can't tell me that the though of a bison style reload doesn't sound like fun.

rule of cool =/= rule of actual design capabilities

>>33705895
or design a whole other mag to run either of those calibers, which is arguably more of a bitch
not to mention
>different springs
>increased action length
>different rifling
>larger action in general because of larger case diameter
>different chamber to support the necked rounds
>overbuild the action for the far, far higher pressures of both rounds
look I get its for the rule of cool but holy shit dude it would be so much work.
let's at least get the 9mm version done first and see if its any good.

>>33705895
A P90 mag works like a conventional magazine that's been twisted.

You could make a regular bolt function in it.
You and i both know you're spewing shit right now.

>>33705907
>different rifling
>different chamber

That's all what we call "a different barrel"

but yes, your post is spot on

>>33705908
wrong

>>33705908
oh my fucking god
you have no idea how the P90 magazine rotates the rounds, do you?

so how would buying one of these work? would it have to get shipped to an ffl?

>>33704527
Good luck with it man, they are looking good. Hope it all works out relatively well.

>>33705918
maybe read the thread you idiot

>>33705908
So.
Lengthen the action slightly, tweak the bolt weight, then use an old PS90 barrel as an example and machine it to fit.
It's a straight blowback gun we're talking about.
I've looked into making this shit before too.
It's a lot fucking simpler than a damn locked breech gun.

No it's not a .22.
But for fucks sake he has 95% of the engineering finished and I'll say it again I STILL WANT 9mm.
It would be sleek as hell and a perfect Plinker.
You can talk all you want about how haaard it's gonna be and how it's so poooointless but at the end of the day it's just you choosing to hitch about the same few things and try and use them to justify not producing something that would arguably help a handgun cartridge that could in fact be excellent not die in the cradle like 10mm auto did.

And if you don't like that, you can go back to cradling your seven identical Glock 19s because they're so damn utilitarian.

>>33705914
It uses feed lip geometry to get them from sitting facing one way to facing towards the chamber.
A 45 degree turn per each line in the stack.

No.
It's not a mechanism, and the bolt has nothing to do with it according the FN forums.

Like I said don't listen to the noguns autist that wont shut up about 5.7. OP seems like he's got his head screwed on strait. I also like colt smg mags over Glock or god forbid Beretta. Keep it simple!!!!

>>33705933
essentially it uses a hump to force the cartridges into a single line and up to the top of a spiral staircase sort of set of steps built into the mag to force the cartridges to make the turn. the only force behind it is the magazine spring and rounds being fired opening up a new slot
meaning, it's a real son of a bitch to integrate into anything not specifically designed around it.

>>33705934
It's 4:41 AM.
I feel like shit.
NO INTERNET SEARCHES HAVE EVEN REMOTELY AGREED WITH YOU, GIVE ME A FUCKING SAUCE ON YOUR BULLSHIT.

IT'S. FEEDLIP. GEOMETRY.
NOTHING. BUT THE FUCKING. BULLET. ROTATES.
I've held P90 mags.
My LGS had a few before they went under.
It's been a bit but I always thought the rotated until I fucking held one and tried to get the mechanism to work with the help of some of the employees who were also curious.
Nobody in their right fucking mind would ever design a firearm that required the bolt to be part of the magazine functionality.

>>33705951
Exactly.
The bolt does NOT rotate the rounds.
Maybe it has slightly different feed lip geometry, but that doesn't mean it would take any more redesigning than a .45 would take.

I want one is 9mm, I want one in 5.7, I want one in 10mm .45 7.62 tokerev fucking hell, make one in 7.5 brno for all I care, but for fucks sake, just stop spouting bullshit and opinions on what is and what isn't a good caliber and how a p90 mag is so fucking complicated.

I don't know if you're the idiot with the p90 mag bullshit, so I'm gonna assume this post isn't directed towards you, random anon I just responded to.

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>>33705895
>>33705910
>being this retarded

>>33705952
>>33705964
Holy fuck autismo rage "I've held p90 mags" lel.

Seriously dude stop shitting up good threads with your meme caliber. Also, seriously, go see a doctor and have your meds adjusted.

>>33704642
>glock mags
>actually advocating the use of single feed mags when you could upgrade to a double feed

So is this the Pepe liberator 3.0?

>>33704560
AR15 trigger group, please.
They are common, and pull&realise versions are there, after all.

>>33705914

>you have no idea how the P90 magazine rotates the rounds, do you?

German space magic?

>>33705162
>veteran startup that ISNT an offensive T-shirt company.
Kek

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>>33705324
>I have a thing for wood
Wood you say...you have wood for it?

>>33706202
No, that guy is an idiot, this one knows what he's doing.

>>33704527
think it would be possible to buy the schematic for other country to make... if the need appeared

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>>33704527
Ausfag here, been thunking about hammering out my own project but I have no idea if there would be any demand for it, and what kind of licenses I'd have to acquire in order to legally manufacture it.

The basic idea would be:
>sturdy survival combination shotgun/rifle
>upper is a 12 gauge single-shot with a quick loading action
>20" barrel
>lower is a pump action .22 LR
>10 round detachable mag
>16" barrel
>side-folding stock, spaced to hold a few 12 gauge rounds and a spare .22 magazine
>pistol grip, dual trigger
>field strip possible without tools
>sling included
>~AU$600 price point

Would it sell?

>>33705270
150w at those thicknesses will probably work yeah, If the cutter says it can it will do it. the reciever of these guns doesnt have much stress anyways so the annealling probably wont be an issue, since thickness is so low it will cool fast too so the extent of the HAZ isnt too large either.

>>33706318
at that price-point id say your dreaming

That said i would buy it if it where rugged enough

>>33706349
Well, I know fuck all about current market values for these kind of guns.

If I were to build it, it'd be a careful balance of ruggedness and low weight, biased towards something you could use as a blunt force weapon once you run out of ammo.

I guess a bayonet attachment point would be useful in that case, too.

I think it could be made relatively compact, too - have the .22 barrel sitting inside of the actual pump grip, rather than above it, for example.

>>33705162
I'm buying one.

Would you make one with a 16 inch barrel? Id buy this for hd

>>33704597
my only issue with it, is that the weld to the magwell seems uneven - though its probably structurally sound. Aesthetically speaking, you might sell more with a nice, even weld. It appears a little more quality and I would gladly pay a smidge more just for polished details like that.

>that being said, I know this is only a prototype

Fucking yes, I need a few.

I would buy one as long as there is like an 80% reciver option

File: 1490896524017.gif (2MB, 250x282px) Image search: [Google]

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Godspeed Breeki, I'd love one seeing how 9mm is cheap and Stens are legal in MD.

>>33705353
Stupid shit will happen, liberals will try to ruin your life just for taking on this endeavor.

Is there an email list to get updated on this? I'm in need of a 9mm carbine

>>33704527
you made a sten gun?

>>33705162
Because you are so against making cringy t shirts, I shall commit myself to purchasing one of your firearms.

It seems that /k/ is all over this idea. I remember a while ago how everyone was shitting on that Pepe gun. That was hilarious

>>33705921
maybe just answer my question you dip

>>33705886
Apply to ATF for the proper licensing, get your gun design approved, then begin selling. Dont forget to pay taxes. >>33707266
Ive been doing this since 6 months before he was. I tried to work with him on his idea too but he never contacted me back.

People hated his idea because all he ever did was post undetailed ms paint doodles and explained his process and mechanism with "its a secret" and "fuck off I dont gotta explain shit."

I got a working prototype, I explain shit, and I take advice into consideration.

>>33706647
There will be a completed reciever option that sells for about $50. Seeing as your typical 80% reciever is about $90 to $120 I think its a great deal.

>>33706502
Yeah, Im a shit welder, Im probably gonna have to hire a guy to come in and do the welding, im looking at CNC welders but until I start making profit I wont be able to get one and still break even.

As long as I stay in cost constraints my first batch sold will hit the break even mark, all subsequent batches will be profit which will be reinvested in increasing capacity and such.

>>33706318
It would sell like hotcakes at that price, but what you propose is a LOT more complex than what Im doing to manufacture. I dont see how youd be able to keep your price below $900 and still profit.

>>33706301
Yeah, once my patent goes through I will make it available in PDF format for like, $5 a pop.

>>33706202
Ive been working on this since about 8 months before he started posting, he even popped up in previous threads asking for advice.

I got his email and tried talking buisiness with him, tried explaining that he really ought to not post until hes atleast got a prototype and that he shouldnt respond to every question with "its a secret" or long fuck-you posts.

He quit replying to me and stopped posting on here a few days later. I really dont think he ever had anything beyond a few google-sketchup drawings and a dream.

Rule of thumb is, you dont get excited about any idea until youve
A) prototyped it
B) ironed enough of the bugs out to be reasonably sure its functional and possible.

That said, I really did like his idea, and was gonna try to partner with him, but hes just so flakey to deal with.

>>33705918
The same as buying any other firearm online. You have it shipped to your FFL.

>>33707266
Well, this is comparing a full metal sten-like gun to a 3d printed gun with it's front sight post also being 3d printed.

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>>33704527
Nice, man. Glad to hear things are going well.

>>33704597
Working with CNC laser tube cutters is great, but you have to make sure that you optimize the model for it. See the attached pic. Both cuts were made using the same sketch, but one was done with the extrude-cut whereas the other was made with a wrap-deboss. The reason for this is that when it rotates the tube, the laser will still be pointed towards the center of the tube, or at least that was the case with the machines I've worked with. If you're just putting the tube in a jig on a laser cutter meant for sheets, then that would work, but you'll have the issue of the thickness varying based on the exact location you're cutting. Better to go with one meant specifically for tubes.

>>33704787
>>33704805
.40 S&W is actually a great option for straight magazines, as there's no real taper to them. Tilting follower not required.

>>33705861
You aint gonna get 7.62 into a direct blowback gun. Delayed blowback maybe, but thats a much more complex bolt, and breech. Id need to completeley redo the bushings and beef up the reciever too. I dont know shit about 5.7 but I suspect it would be the same for it too.

In other words we are talking about a totally different rifle. I gotta stick to what I got, im not palmetto state or keltech, I cant just hire a couple engineers and drop 50 grand on making it work then crank out a marketing campaign and sell 15,000 of them to break even on development in 6 months.

I put a LOT of work into making this thing work, it looks like a sten but on the inside everything is different. Starting over from square one before I have even started making enough of a profit to cover costs would kill this project. Its gonna be a 9mm PCC, if 3 or 4 years from now Im making a tidy profit and things look good then maybe I can start thinking about making something different.

>>33705592
This, it's what makes people dress up their hipoints. Henry Ford had that idea and it works wonders in keeping overhead down.

>>33705206
>>33705215
>>33705243

Do they even make water jet cutters for tubes? Anything other than a flat sheet runs the risk of deflecting the jet, giving a sloppy, inaccurate cut and potentially damaging equipment.

Could you make one with a telescopic firing pin ? Like the mp40 ?
Those things really mitigates the recoil

Can you just make regular stens with a Faux can to make up the 16in barrel?

>>33705494
>>33705571
>>33705599

Something to be cognizant about is that processes like plating/powdercoating add thickness to the component, whereas processes like nitriding don't. I like the idea of selling parts in the white for custom finishes, but you don't want people to turn a clearance fit into an interference fit when applying a finish. It could go from a fully functional gun to a jammed POS or even a bunch of shrapnel pretty quickly.

>>33707693
The 150 watt CO2 laser im looking at can cut up to 3mm of stainless, and my recievers are just a hair under a millimeter in thickness, plus its got a rotary axis CNC setup on it for tubes, so its pretty much exactly what I need.

Its only bareley a laser cutter really, it forces a stream of oxygen into the beam to give it a bit more punch to blow the matierial out of the cut kinda like a plasma cutter does which also makes cutting faster.

When these guys got concerned that a laser wouldnt be enough they probably thought I was talking about some wood burning hobby-rig. Its a $15,000 industrial laser, its MORE than enough to crank out these reciever tubes for as long as im supplying a steady stream of steel tubes and pressurised oxygen.

>>33707756
Yeah, as long as you're working with steel, laser cutters don't need to be that strong. Aluminum is a fucking headache, though. The passivated layer requires a fuckton of power to get through and the material reflects a lot more than steel does. The machines we used to cut sheets could go through steel 4 times as thick as it could aluminum. It was a huge PITA.

Seriously, though: Make sure you're using wrap-deboss for cuts along the surface instead of extrude-cut in your 3D model. Otherwise the cuts will not be to the right dimensions.

>>33707729
Tolerances for this thing are ludicrously forgiving, I dont think a coating would add enough thickness to actually effect anything.
To give you an idea of how forgiving it is, headspace measurements allow for + or - 1/8th to 1/16th of an inch from true and still function fine. In headspace terms that like a fucking mile.

>>33707775
Aluminum conducts and dissapates heat away from the cut a lot more effectivley than steel too.

Yeah, you dont want to draft it flat and then expect the cuts to turn out good on a curved surface. Im soooorta savvy on drafting, but I am gonna go down to the local precision machine college and ask one of the instructors to pimp one of his best students out for a week. Pay him to make sure im not fucking anything up, he gets resume expierience, some money, and I make sure im not feeding bullshit data to my laser.

>>33707807
My schedule is pretty empty ATM, if you don't mind a filthy Canuck fiddling with your design.

>>33707879
Im about 6 months away from it at this point, I still need to get the machines here, assembles, installed, and figure out the software issues. My laser cutter is gonna use laserworks v8, or atleast thats the stock software it comes with.

Still making my decisions on what im gonna get for a CNC. Nice thing about buying expensive industrial equipment is that the manufacturer will send out a tech to train me up on it.

8 months ago I was just a dumb grunt in iraq, so I got a LOT on my plate before I start seriously drafting and beginning test runs for my equipment.

Not reading whole thread but good job OP. My suggestion is to make a "pistol" version with a short bbl and provisison for mounting an AR buffer tube to utilize one of the many braces on the market. Also make it compatible with Glock mags. You will sell a shit load.

>>33707879
Gotta add, my financial backing literally just fell into my lap outta nowhere yesterday from an unexpected source, so all this shit I was only tentativley planning due to having no funding now needs to be made concrete.

Hence thread title: shit just got serious. Prior to 24 hours ago I was thinking "I'll just finish up my 2nd prototype, get some good drafts made, and try to send sales pitches to some other companies looking for backers."

Then my fiance who im marrying in 7 weeks popped up super interested in the idea. Turns out the crazy kraut is pretty wealthy and she really wanted to start up a buisiness here in murica. I guess her ex was a lazy piece of shit who thought he could live off her bank account so she wanted to hide that shes got 2 houses one in germany and one in france) plus a (good amount of cash until after we married.

No fuckin idea what I did to deserve this kinda break but im runnin with it.

>>33705494
Parkerize them. It's cheap, easy, and effective.

>>33707927
I'm honestly not sure what interface they used for the CNC tube cutters. We exported the models as IGES files and they used those to generate the GCode. From a brief google search, it seems like the vast majority of people use laserworks just for engraving.

>>33707990
That's pretty awesome, man. Kinda reminds me of Bertha Benz. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertha_Benz

>>33708014
Yeah, I definiteley got a lot of work cut out for me

>>33704642
>hurr durr what is brand new metalform mags for $20
>durr muh uzi milsurp junk

Kill your self

>>33704527
You still using sten bolts/springs? If you could do some work on an AR buffer system you'd open up to a cheaper parts market. Downside is it changes the internals a fair amount. Glad to see you're still doing it. Looks fun. Check out the JRC guys out of Oregon for ideas on quick swap barrels.

>>33704597
Hell I'd buy one for that price.
Good luck dude!

>>33704527
What did you do for the bolt?

Sorta related, but how do I get in the industry designing guns? What sorta degree do I need (I'm guessing mechanical engineering) and how do I get started designing and building guns? Are there any books or resources on learning all the parts and components?

>>33704560
Please do not make us buy Colt SMG magazines.

Use Beretta, Glock, or just STEN mags.

>>33704527
Count me in Anon. Ill buy one.

>>33704836
How many magazines are you including with each gun if any?

>>33708253
I shoulda mentioned, in converting it from striker to hammer fired I am incorporating a hammer/bolt/buffer/trigger system similar to an AR that ought to be able to share atleast some internal parts commonality with an AR.

>>33708452
Perfect! That should really cut your parts down. Sten bolts are just so dang pricey and they ain't exactly getting cranked out.You taken a look at the JRCs?

>>33708367
Immah be honest, Im just some dude who joined the marines as a grunt. I dont got a degree in shit, I just kinda... did it.

>>33708452
Oh and I forgot to add. You're in a really good spot here, if you are interested take a look at the SIA Novem. If you could bring the same thought process to a bolt action 9mm you'd be entering a market with literally no competition and it's a gun that people want at a cheap price point. You can find those Armscor 22TCM at the store. They have VERY similar actions to 9mm, but they need some tweaking. That's what SIA does, but he doesn't do them in a price point that will really sell. If you can simplify the cost process and keep it south of $600 it'd be a real killer plinker.

>>33708467
You mean just-rite. Thats what triggered me hard enough to start all this. Dont get me wrong, they seem alright, but fuck if I was gonna spend more than $500 on a rifle Id just buy a ruger 5.56 AR.

The whole POINT of a PCC is to be in the middle between a full rifle and a handgun. So why shouldnt prices reflect? And why is everything sub $500 on the PCC market a hipoint? I decided I ought to be able to make a sub $500 PCC thats better than those friggin abominations.

Sub2k go for 450 all day long.

>>33704862
You can't just take the stock off of a rifle and call it a pistol. A rifle can never be a pistol. A pistol can be a rifle though.

>>33705494
Parkerize my nigga

>>33708598
Huh, didnt know that.

>>33708684
Yeah, it's fucking retarded. Maybe you should do some more research on the laws before you start manufacturing. You can also turn a rifle that used to be a pistol back into a pistol. When a firearm comes from the factors as a rifle you cant cut it down into a pistol, ever. You can however make both factor and custom pistols and rifles into any NFA item that you could otherwise manufacture from scratch (AOW, SBS, SBR) except there are some rules about AOW. For example you can't manufacture a shotgun and then turn it into an AOW but you can have a factory AOW that fires shotgun shells. Like those serbu shotguns that are AOW? Those were made as AOW's. If bubba wants to cut down his SXS under an OAL of 28 inches and/or barrel length under 18 inches then he needs to register it as a SBS even if the final product is identical in every function and dimensional way to the AOW Serbu.

>>33708750
*make both factory and custom

>>33708750
Ah, I see. Well a pistol version wouldnt be too hard. Maybe I could have it as a specialty item once things get started.

Would take nothing extra to manufacture one as a pistol upon request.

>>33708684
Consider making a run of Pistols too

>>33708817
Personally I'd just do the pistol as the default. What's your plan for the barrel? If you did a barrel nut sort of thing (you don't have to worry too much about headspace, obviously, you could just sell separate barrels and stocks. You'd save money on the lack of stock and material costs on the barrel being like 8" instead of 16" which would make up a minute amount of the extra costs of having barrels that are easy enough to change out. You could probably even use factor AR castle nuts and 9mm AR barrels, just not drilled for the gas port.

>>33708817
>>33708870
I mean it'd be a bit of a hastle but I think most people would be more interested in a STEN based pistol than a rifle tbqh

>>33708872
>>33708870
>>33708817
Barrel blanks obviously, fully machined AR barrels wouldn't work.

>>33708881
Just do the chamber face/chamber yourself

>>33708890
>>33708881
I'm being autistic here but part of the idea then is that people could use free float AR handguard if they wanted to as well. I mean I get that this is deviating from the whole thing but a blowblack STEN type pistol with an AR castle nut that can take AR handguards would sell pretty well in my opinion.

>>33708870
>>33708872
The bushing system I got is already about as simple as it can get, the only change I plan to make is to thread the rear bushing in instead of welding.

I disagree, there IS a niche market for oversized "pistols" (lets be jonest, theyre SBRs without a stock that could be SBRd in a hurry)

I think the maket is ripe for a cheap mid-powered carbine, if they want a pistol I can make em one, but going TOO niche limits my market.

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>>33708817
The way they made AR-7 pistols is by putting the pin and the groove for the barrel alignment on the bottom for the pistol and the top for the rifle.

>>33704527
I'd buy one at that price.

>>33708903
A pistol STEN is far more appealing to a broader audience. Do really think people are going to buy a heavy unergonomic "PCC" without there being a degree of novelty involved.

>>33704648
You can't copyright magazines, and the patents have long since expired.

>>33708947
Dude, not all that many people buy pistols like that, and novelty is a weak market. A PCC is what im making with pistols as a side thing. Sales will dictate which I end up making my main product line.

Pistol versions of rifles are selling to a tiny niche of people who want an SBR but dont have the patience to apply to the ATF.

This rifles performance, durability, and price will more than outweigh ergonomics. Its $425, what do you expect it to look and feel like? An HK?
Though I must say, this rifle is actually suprisingly comfortable to shoot, doesnt really feel much different from an AK with a collapsible stock.

>>33709141
Dressing her up won't be that hard either. You could start experiment with variants that take furniture.

>>33709141
I'm pretty new to funs, canadian. I'd be interested in getting one, but have no experience in ordering from the states. Is this something that could happen?

I'm not familiar with the hoops I'd need to jump through, can someone point me in the right direction?

>>33709306
It's easier to use a service like https://irunguns.us/

>>33709162
Or just make cheap furniture and sell it to the guys who want it. Its stripped down bare-bones for a reason, adding furniture gets expensive fast. Like I told somebody earlier, just adding a little bit nicer of a stock ends up adding $100 to the cost.

Toss in quad rails and it goes up $200, at which point lets be honest, nobody wants to buy this rifle for $725, you could just buy a decent mid-range AR or a much nicer PCC for that much.

This things 3 selling points will be
1: function (reliable and decently accurate)
2: durability. Its loose tolerances and simple construction means anything you actually manage to break could be repaired with hand tools or for next to nothing
3: price, only item on the market in this price range is hipoint, and its niether accurate nor durable, plus its got those shitty propriatary 10 round magazines.

To hit that balance of rugged, accurate, and reliable and still stay cheap its just inevitable that corners get cut in terms of bells and whistles.

This is NOT going to be a fancy high end rifle. Its going to be a pragmatic workhorse that you dont gotta feel bad about abusing.

>>33709306
I have no idea how export/import works to be honest man.

>>33709141
>Pistol versions of rifles are selling to a tiny niche of people who want an SBR but dont have the patience to apply to the ATF.
Lmao dude. You're so far beyond ignorant on this shit that you don't know what you're talking about.

>>33709351
You would need to submit one for review by the RCMP. The process can take a couple years, but you're pretty much guaranteed sales if it's non-restricted and/or inexpensive.

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Honestly, my only consistent complaint with input ive run into on /k/ is that people want something like pic related but they want it for $400. I dont know if its noguns or just guys who dont understand how manufacturing works but its just not possible.

My goal is to make this thing as nice as possible for under $500, preferably under $450 is possible. With zero bells and whistles it can cost $425 and still be profitable.

Guys want it to come in snowflake calibers, have beautiful high range furniture, and cost nothing. Im not dissin on anyone personally, but its just not happening. Theres some harsh realities of engineering, manufacturing and economics that you just cant get around.

Its gonna go bang when you pull the trigger, its gonna hit what you aim at, it aint gonna break if you drop it or fall on it, and its not gonna cost an arm and a leg.

Thats all I can do, if it doesnt please the haters I reccomend they buy a nicer more expensive gun.

(Though you guys are great and like, 95% of the feedback from the beginning has been positive and useful)

>>33709342

The stock is perfect as is. I'm gonna hang it up in my bedroom and keep it for home defense.

>>33709342
You're trying so desperately to make this a non-niche rifle and just a cheap PCC without even realizing that that isn't a market that people who are interested in PCC, by and large (exluding autists here) would enjoy without some AR compatibility.

>>33709381
>>33709315
So until one has been examined by RCMP, it's not allowed to be sold here, even if it were a private sale (but still adhered to all canadian gun laws/met unrestricted standards etc?)

>>33709453
Bullshit. I'm just trying to help you out you dumb fag. The ability to take a wrench and change the barrels out along with the modularity of an AR castle nut would be best if your doing a PCC. Turning around, for what you want to do, ie mostly stock/STEN like, a pistol is the better bet. Ask yourself why, aside from import regs (922r, etc), when IO Inc imported those Radom made PPS-43's why they went with a pistol instead of a full length rifle?

>>33709514
Pretty much.

>>33709514
Its undoubtably going to be a niche rifle, but it dont cost nothin and thats a big selling point.

Plus if the rifle thing dont work out I can just use the same equipment to crank out DIY kits as a fallback.

And if THAT doesnt work out I can just use the laser cutter to make novelty shot glasses or something stupid like that.

Theoretically, how easy to convert to open bolt?
Please don't shoot my dog

>>33709520
>>33709551
Shit. I love the sten design, the idea of helping someone small and starting out, and the fact I could take it camping as a plinker without worrying about it getting busted. I understand it's a niche rifle, but it's something I'm interested in, It's a shame I'll probably never get my hands on one then. Good luck breeki, I hope it works out for you, and I'll keep an eye on your progress

>>33709518
My first run is going to be 100 rifles, 20 pistols, 20 "traditionally" laid out horizontally fed rifles. We'll see how they sell. If my customers buy out the pistols in a flash, dont touch the rifles and I get a bunch of requests for more pistols im not going to be autistic enough to keep cranking out rifles and refuse to sell pistols, but it seems to me like plenty enough folks want cheap plinking rifles to make it worth it. Time will tell.

Also that post wasnt pickin at you, you do have good points, but my initial run is gonna be mostly rifles. Making it a pistol is the exact same process as a rifle, you just dont add a long barrel or stock.


Its just been a consistent gripe ive run into in literally every thread
>whys it not in 5.7?
>why isnt it in 10mm
>howcome no polymer stuff
>why isnt it covered in rails


Some guy in the last thread I made spent 3 days harassing me because I told him a carbon fiber reciever was not on the table. He was completeley pissed about it.

>>33709563
As is? Barely on the right side of legal. As it will sell? Very very difficult. you can build open bolt striker fired guns that are 2 welds and a filed off tripping lever away from being an open bolt submachinegun and its still legal, but you cant SELL them. Atleast not for long without the ATF dropping the banhammer.

Final version will intentionally be very difficult to convert to open-bolt full auto.

>>33709611
Those are stupid questions though. Mine weren't :^)

>>33709520
You seem really knowledgeable on this sort of thing, could you inform me on buying kits instead? Does it take the same process of being approved, or is it different?

>>33709637
Yeah, I was probably a bit snappier than I ought to have been. My fuckin cat is in heat and woke me up every 20 minutes last night. Neighbors have a male cat and shes being a little fuckin slut about it.

>>33709653
I'm just a huge nerd, lol. Manufacturing guns for yourself is lawful in Canada, but every instance I know of was either not semi-automatic or was an existing design. There's really no reason not to get an FRT# for it by the RCMP.

>>33709453
This is why I love this project. Cause you understand that most of the people making suggests are just assholes with their heads up their asses about the procress that goes into it.
I say keep up the good work, doing it your way.
And keep off the AR furniture/buffer tube. I hate when people ruin the look and function of something by adding AR parts to it. Like those adaptors that put an AR stock on an Ak are ugly and stupid as shit. Keep It Stupid Simple.

Btw I'm not commiting to buying one yet because I was already planning on making almost the same thing about a month before you posted the prototype.

Also Uzi and Colt mags are very close in size. You might be able to get it to run both with very little extra. work.

>>33709775
Uzi mags and Colt mags are the same, Colt mags just have an additional catch cut.

>>33709775
I think uzi mags can be modified to fire in colt magwells. Or maybe its the opposite, but yeah. I really do think something that uses glock mags would do well but I just cant afford to incorporate it into the design right now. Maybe after things get off the ground.

>>33705469
If you make it take sterling mags or ppsh mags 7.62x25 tok would work.
Also Id pay more like 850 for a TOK pcc.....just saying.

>>33709738
Shit, I may have a chance yet. Where would I look for more info on this, say getting an FRT# for a kit, if breeki bro ends up selling a kit?

>>33709838
Yeah, when things get off the ground I think one that took PPSH mags could be in order, they're cheap as fuck. Right now I gotta focus on getting started and its gonna be in 9mm.

Different calibers and assorted extras are going to come once I have everything up and running and demonstrating profit.

Also an idea of mine is that instead of bonded template recievers I could just laser engrave the tubes with the template directly onto the metal for folks who want to build partskit stens. I could also use the laser cutter to cut AK reciever flats. I mean its not like I HAVE to only use the laser for this rifle. There's a lot of possibilities opened up just getting that laser CNC operational.

>>33704648

This senpai

Use glock 33 rounders

>>33709802
>>33709810
The colt mags also have a ridge on the back for a bolt hold open, while uzi maga are flat but yes basically the same.

I agree with holding off on the glock mags. That can come much later.

>>33709882
It's possible to get a provisional classification even just by showing them the drawings, but they'll want to inspect the firearm itself sooner or later. The FRT# is just the number they assign it in the huge spreadsheet of all different firearm makes/models.

>>33709902
Do you have tabs on the sides of the magwell that go into slots in the receiver? That would make it a lot easier for welding, as you wouldn't need a jig.

>>33709946
See, thats why I fuckin come here, cuz I hadnt thought of that.

With the laser cutter it would be easy as hell to cut 4 small recesses on either side of the hole, and cut 4 corresponding tabs in the magwell. Just put the tabs in the holes and its aligned right already, then weld it.

Would only add like 30 seconds to cutting but pays off by not requiring a jig and clamps and shit to align each magwell for welding.

>>33709977
I would go with either 3 tabs or 4 tabs that can only be inserted in one orientation. You don't want someone to accidentally weld a magwell on backwards.

What software are you using for the 3D model, btw?

>>33709996
Ugh. I wish I could have it so my trip was only active in one thread at a time. I always forget to put it on or take it off between posts.

>>33709946
Could I just send In a drawing and if it's accepted purchase the full thing from breeki and bypass the building portion?

>>33705162
If I ship you a DD214 Blanky along with my payment will you make me a horizontal feeding downward ejecting version? I am a brass scavenger and that would be pretty fantastic.

>>33705044
>>33704560
You should really find a way to lighten it up a bit, seven pounds for a PCC is a bit much, especially if that's the unloaded weight.

>>33709996
>>33710013
I havent bought the laser yet, so I havent worked out what software. Like I said earlier, news that I was funded only came in about 18 hours ago.

Im gonna consult with a few gunsmiths and machinists and get advice on what equipment is best. By brothers father-in-law runs an engineering firm in town, im gonna talk to him to get contacts on who I should consult.

>>33710069
Its the weight with a full 32 round mag. I havent weighed it unloaded yet. But you are correct, the final version is going to be a lot lighter.

Making it hammer fired removes two guide rods, a striker, and 2 buffer springs and replaces it with just one buffer spring. Being hammer fired means the bolt will be hollow like an AR bolt. Honestly like 4 pounds of the weight is its bolt and guide rod assembly right now.

I think I can reduce that to about 2.5 pounds without having to make the buffer spring absurdly stiff to deal with when cocking.

>>33710107
Be careful with your recoil springs. Make it too stiff and you'll have an MP5 situation where they'll have to break it in before it runs 115gr reliably.

>>33710144
You can get away with about 2.2 pounds bor direct blowback bolts using 9mm before it becomes too much of an issue.

>>33710084
Honestly, I think you would be best served with two lasers. One flat bed laser for components like the magwell and one like this for the receiver:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gh54IdOwms

>>33710107
Why would a striker fired design require all of that stuff in the first place?

>>33710107
You cut nigger

>>33704527
I would buy a pistol variant with no stock, a pistol grip and a shorty barrel. They would make excellent urban operatin weapons at $425.


If it uses an AR FCG and lets me drop in a binary trigger (sold sep) I would buy two of them at $450

>>33710208
Because the striker has to move on a guide rod, which means you need a seperate spring for recoil and one for the striker, they get tangled together unless the 2nd spring is also on a guide rod.

>>33710193
The laser I plan to get can be configured for either flat bed or rotary.

>>33704527
I'd buy one if you prove that it won't blow my fingers off.

>>33710259
What's it called? Because that sounds awesome.

>>33707168
Bumping for this.

For ~$425 I'd totally buy one, but there's a better than even chance I'd miss the opportunity to if you only post this here.

>>33710107
>>33710154

This guy made a 9mm rifle with a 0.7 pound bolt, less than half that. You could slim the hole thing down to 1" and save machining time and lighten everything a whole deal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uHuH9zDDBk

>>33710084
Good job sticking to your guns on the whole cheap and reliable > mall ninja. This is something I'd by 4 of at $400-500 but zero of at $700+

Would you consider making a YouTube channel or something like that so we can see demos of the prototype/ offer advice after seeing the gun up close and personal?

Also, make a kickstarter. A lot of people would kick in a lot of money, especially if you gave away something like a code to get "ave nex alea" engraved for free with purchase with a donation.

>>33710317
Kickstarter doesn't allow gun related stuff. IIRC, there's a firearm-specific crowdfunding site, though. Remember hearing about it during SHOT.

>>33710328
Fucking hell, the left ruins everything. I hate the stigma around guns. I makes me physically ill to watch people's reaction when I casually mention I own an AR

>>33710268
BOSSS. If im not retarded I think the tradeoff is decreased flat space to work with, and limited tube length, but at 28" by 36" workspace its more than enough for what I need starting out. When I make money I can buy a bigger laser.

>>33710293
Its gonna be a continuing thing bruh

>>33710259
Also, if you sent a sample to the big gun youtubers like HugeCock45 and Demolition Ranch they'd make a video on it with a link to your website (you need to make one). You would sell a so many you would be backlogged for years.

>>33710317
I second the YouTube idea, I'd like to have a source I can turn to and know when I can actually consider getting one rather than lurking /k/ and missing a thread

>>33710372
Yeah, I agree fully, but I gotta be careful that I dont accept too many orders and put people on a 4 month waitlist. Then everyone gets pissed and shits up your site and reputation.

Im gonna be making 100 at a time at first until I can buy bigger equipment and hire employees. At which point I fully plan to reach out to public figures as you mention.

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Good work OP

Fingers crossed for glock mags

>>33710356
One of these?

https://www.bosslaser.com/industrial-lasers/boss-ls-2436.html
https://www.bosslaser.com/industrial-lasers/boss-ls-4055.html
https://www.bosslaser.com/industrial-lasers/boss-hp-2436.html
https://www.bosslaser.com/industrial-lasers/boss-hp-4055.html

Steel is usually sold in 8' sheets, so you'll either need to cut it to size yourself or pay extra for the supplier to cut it for you.

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>>33709453
To be honest, it's refreshing to have a gun without any bells and whistles. Whats it like in terms of reliability? Would I think make a nice SHTF rifle or is it more of a plinking gun?

>>33710442
Yeah, one a those, atleast thats the plan. I still gotta consult the pros, if they tell me about something better thats what im gonna do.

Cutting the steel is not going to be a problem.

>>33710471
Its hard to answer that yet, right now its a plinker, but I also did ungodly things to it just to prove concepts and get my theories working. My next and final prototype is going to be the production model.

My aim is that its a rugged reliable innawoods gun.

>>33710477
Where you located, if you're in WA state I'd love to take you out and let you shoot some of my PCCs.

>>33710471
Would it make**

Fuck me and fuck autocorrect

>>33710477
Yeah, absolutely. I have a hunch that it'll probably be cheaper for volume production to have two separate lines running 24/7 instead of switching between the two, though.

>>33710507
MT, zootown area.

>>33710524
Bummer, if you ever cross state lines and hit the coast post a thread, I'll take you out to shoot my MP5.

>>33710506
Sounds like exactly what I was looking for. Thank you breeki

>>33710519
Yeah, my first purchase to exapand things is going to be a big flatbed cutting laser and another CNC mill.

Until then my manufacturing scheme is roughly as follows:
1: make 100 recievers
2: make 100 bolts
3: make 100 stocks
4: make 100 magwells
5: make 100 rear bushings, 100 front bushings
6: welding rear bushing into recievers
7: coating/finishing recievers
8: coating finishing barrels
9: coating/finishing stocks
10: assembly

Barrels will be sourced and show up in the white. Small parts will be sourced as well.

Obviously there minutia im leaving out like affixing iron sights and welding the top rails on but in a nutshell I think I could complete about 100 rifles a month at first.

I dont expect to hit 100 rifles a month production consistently, cuz I gotta sell them first to produce the cost to make the next 100, but the idea is for the first few runs to dump all my profits into expanding production capabilities.

Im hoping within a year or two of starting production to have it up to around 400 to 500 rifles per month, but were getting into counting chicks before they hatch there.

>>33710542
No prob. Giggle mode or civved?

>>33710632
Wow I didnt realize you were making these new production, I assumed you were just building sten gun kits
>>33710658
Extending same PCC offer for Colorado

>>33704805
>>33704787
>>33704723
>>33704617
>>33704560
>>33704527
7.62x25mm would be a damn near perfect round for this and they make sten kits in that size. The barrels would be cheap AF, do what the soviets did to make SMGs and turn down a Nagant barrel on a lathe then cut it in half for 2 barrels

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>>33710658
She's a semi, but proper set up. I love PCCs and have been through an AR9/MP5/Sub2k/lever action already. Curious about yours because I love all things PCC. Might even try to buy your first production rifle.

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OP, have you considered placing the magazine well on the top of the receiver like the Owen gun?

By moving the ejector to the magazine and allowing spent casings to eject downward (with gravity assist), you reduce the risk of the failures-to-feed and failures-to-eject common in homebuilt guns like Lutys.

>>33710411
Definiteley, I would be stupid to try and use an aboriginie straw hat weaving board as my sole sales platform.

If I end up surviving this ride I might hook up with creepfinder and host a nuggetfest, maybe give a tour of the facility I set up.

Also might donate to /k/ radio and the crimson caravan in exchange for advertising. I think biting off too much to chew by sending a big E-celeb could be as bad as not marketing. Getting too swamped with orders and coming off as amatuerish and unorganized would be really bad.

I think if I were to do that I would wait until I can get production up, then stockpile a bunch of product first.

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>>33704527
you are on your second prototype and already have an MSRP in mind?

>>33710671
My dad called dibs on it. He refers to the series as the "Mother-Fuckin 9" or MF-9 cuz getting it to work was a tedious frustrating affair.

Wed shoot it and shoot it and shoot it with zero problems. Smoke a cigarette and start back-slapping, pick it up. Stovepipe or double feed. "GODDAMNIT MOTHER FUCKER!"

I did the work on 99% of it under heavy consultation from my dad. The bipod was his doing, he broke his spine and it healed wrong, he cant fire rifles without a lot of discomfort. The bipod lets him lounge in a comfy chair at a bench and shoot with ease. My first prototype is next to his bed as his home defense piece now.

I might designate the first run as MF-9 /K/ series and give /k/ommandos exclusive first buyers rights to the first 100 that I make. Maybe engrave "ave nex allea" somewhere on it too.

>>33710773
Hah! That's great. Do name it the MF9. I can't think of any better way for it to get a name.

>>33710715
Aint like im inventing something totally new here, technically the first prototype was made during WW2. Im just modifying and improving on it.

Makes things a lot more simple. I only spent $300 making the first one and I both bought stuff I ended up not needing and made a lot of changes to it over time.

I think that total cost for the small parts will equal about 90 bucks, and the barrel will equal 100, the matierials all told run about 60 bucks. So $250 per gun matierial cost, factor in $50 per gun in labor and misc expenses.

Sell at $425 for $125 profit on each. Obviously theres leeway allowed, it might cost a bit more due to unforseen stuff, so sell for $450 or $475, no biggie.

This seems pie-in-the-sky, but maybe do custom laser engraving once you get off the ground?
Living in the People's Republic of New York, just recently turned 18. Don't want to miss the boat on the Ave Nex Alea receivers before I move.
Also those first few threads were a shitshow, good to see you got it together.
Also where are your vids?

>>33704527

give it a bayonet lug

>>33710849
We dont talk about those videos.

>>33710894
what

>>33710699

Then you can't have sights you dummy

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>>33710924

Yeah you can, just offset the front and rear sights to the right of the magazine well.

About the finishing options, since its so barebones anyways for 450 id opt for getting it without a finish just grease since i strip and refinish most of my guns anyways. maybe have that as an option? or offer choices down the line parked blued or painted.

>>33711020
But if i could I would just get it in the white with grease and do it myself.

>>33710921
Made some videos, im straight trash as videography.

>>33711020
Standard would be with a finish, but if I were to recieve an email from somebody visiting the product website requesting one in the white we could work something out.

>>33711092
Nice, that would be great for me. Ive been lurking in your threads since the beginning, your stuff looks great, Godspeed man.

>>33711092
I'm pumped. I'd love a /k/ special, I'm already day dreaming the furniture I'll make for it. Can you post more pics of prototypes etc itt?

>>33704527
Digging it, my dude.

We're about to hit bump limit, btw. New thread?

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>>33711158
Only got one on this phone, rest are on my laptop at my family homestead.

>>33711217
Naw, I gotta get off 4chan and start getting my passport sorted out anyhow.

>>33711244
'Aight. I'll keep my eyes peeled for your threads. Have a good evening, bruv.

>>33711257
No prob, thanks for that magazine slot idea!

>>33711233
I'll keep an eye out for more progress, and good luck! Really looking forward to this project

>>33704648
>horizontal magwell with P90 mags
Make it happen OP.

>>33711340
>Absolute retardation the post.

>>33704527
Make a version for ban states too. I'd love to have that rifle with a traditional stock and lower sight height.

>>33710830
I will definitely buy one if this comes to fruition

this whole thing is just a ploy so he can get an FFL

>>33711920
dont be a faggot there are easier ways to get a ffl than shitposting over the course of 2 years on /k/

>>33704836
>>33704527
>Chambered in 9mm
>$425

I can buy a Red Ryder BB gun for $20 OP, chamber it in a man's caliber.

>>33706070
See >>33706015
It took me a bit.
Internet problems or some shit.

But seriously.
Fuck you.
>>33706223
That's actually a pretty good idea.
Make certain parts compatible with other guns.

So AR trigger group, perhaps a method of adapting the stock to say, an AK stock, and perhaps attempting a built in mag loading tool like the grease gun or that Czech SMG that's currently dirt cheap (or at least the parts kits are anyways)

I'm not gonna lie, I'm getting a "real life bastard" vibe from everything.
I love it.
>>33707615
Hmm.
Well then, I might end up doing some tinkering myself and if anything comes of it I'll send you some shit.

That goes for both 5.7 and 7.62 tokerev.
I'm more than willing to do some work on my own before anything wonderful is realized.
>>33709453
Honestly I want a barebones thing that fires pistol caliber cartridges so I can tinker with it, and the price tag you're quoting is the real reason I'm so interested.
It doesn't particularly matter how well it works; I'll just iron out all the kinks myself.
Hell, a DIY kit with an 80% tube and all the welding pre-done would be magnificent.

I'm thinking I'll make a PPSh style stock For starters.
>>33709611
As the 5.7 guy (this thread at least) I can say I honestly don't want rails.
A fudd gun in 5.7 is a it of a wet dream for me.
Sorry if it pissed you off a little. I haven't actually been in one of your threads previously so I had no idea what's been asked already and what hasn't.
>>33711020
That's a wonderful idea.
A "finish it yourself" option.
I'd probably end up getting that.

>>33705842
It's removable barrel, as long as you're willing to steal the barrel mounting device off of the 9mm barrel you'd be able to re work it into mounting the new 7.62x25 barrel. Bolt face is the same which saves quite a bit but you need custom mags which isn't impossible to make.

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OP, have you put any thought into what kind of warranty you'll be selling these funs with?

I imagine people wouldn't be too happy to have a part break and you're unable to supply a replacement part.

>>33713203
Im going to be making most of the parts myself, the ones im not are cheap AR small internals. So providing replacement parts as part of warranty is very doable.

>>33712809
Ive done 20 threads or so in 2 years of working on this thing. Literally every. Single. thread. Some gyy wants it in 10mm, another in 5.7, then they either argue with me or argue with eachother.

It used to be funny until it started derailing threads that I was getting good input from. Like I told another guy on here, I had some dude harass me for 3 days for telling him that I am not ever going to build him a carbon-fiber reciever. I wasnt even a dick about it but he still lost his shit.

>>33713193
You'd need a new magwell too. 7.62x25 TOK is a lot longer than 9mm.