favorite fudd myths

>>33671850
This is a new one.

>>33671850
>.22LR is ultra lethal because it tumbles and fragments, but .223/5.56 only wounds because it's designed to tumble and fragment

>>33671878
he may be referring to the change in twist from 1/9 to 1/7.

>>33671888
the diffrence is a 22 bullet will bounce around your body cause all sots of damage. so think this way, if a 22 bounce through a whole the same time 2 times, that the same damage as a 44 magnum, but the 22 will really counce around the bones maybe 20-50 times and pretty much shred you alive.

>ful autos are completely illegal in the US
>ARs are unreliable
>AKs can't hit anything past 100 yards
>.22 bounces around
>"Assault rifles" can't be used to hunt, it'll blow the deer in half
>9mm isn't lethal(but .22 is)
>.45acp is a one shot kill death ray
>A 12 gauge with shot or slugs will blow off limbs
>A .22lr will go for a mile if it doesn't hit anything.
Did i miss anything?

>>33671888
>.22LR is the most deadly round because it kicks so little you can just dump a whole mag on target

>5.56 was designed to wound not kill so that three people are taken out of the firefight at once instead of one
This is how you know the person you're talking to has a sub-50 IQ.

>>33675558
Except some of these are true you idiot.

>>33675558
Yes
>birdshot in a 12 gauge is great for home defense

>>33675627
Only one of these is true and a couple other ones may or may not be depending on the circumstances.

>>33671850
>.45 is powerful

+3000 fuddpoints if in the same breath they dismiss .40 "short and weak"

>>33675558
>>A 12 gauge with shot or slugs will blow off limbs
This could certainly happen in the right conditions

>5.45 will blow your leg off.
RIP cutshell Barry, but that one was just full retard.

>>33675558
>A .22lr will go for a mile if it doesn't hit anything.
pretty much true
>A 12 gauge with shot or slugs will blow off limbs
limb is small enough its possible
>.22 bounces around
bullets can bounce

>>33671850
>that 7.62x39 ayy kay is not good enough for bear defense
> what you need so, is a .44 mag

>.50 will kill you if it passed near you
>AK unjammable
>AR jammomatic
>ANY Bolt action guns are more accurate than ANY semi auto
> Knockdown power/ Stopping Power
> Made to wound
> Revolvers unjammable
> Plastic guns blow up and jam constantly

>>33675662
>>birdshot in a 12 gauge is great for home defense
Actually, it kind of is, especially if you live in an apartment or suburb with other houses around and killing someone who you didn't mean to kill is as much of a concern as not killing someone who you did mean to kill. And yes, I've seen the pictures of those protesters from Qatar. How far away were they from the shotguns that were used on them? Judging by the spread of the shot, I'm guessing at least a hundred yards - probably a lot more. But home defense encounters pretty much always happen at distances under ten yards (try explaining to a jury why you shot somebody who was 50 yards away in "self-defense"), and shot spread at that distance is going to be pretty minimal.

The idea that this is a fudd myth, is a /k/ myth.

> The US would have won in Vietnam if they'd just kept using the M-14

>>33675558
>>AKs can't hit anything past 100 yards
Military spec AKs (especially AKMs) are god fucking aweful and you will fail to hit a 12 in target at 300m 80% of the time.

The only exceptions are the very early true ak47s at the beginning of production with the milled receivers, and AKs for the US civilian market because who's going to pay hundreds of dollars for a rifle that can't shoot accurately.

My personal favorite fudd lore is that the Japanese design their guns so they could use captured American ammo (but not the other way around) during WW2. They would even stage night raids on us stockpiles for ammo.

>>33675575
That was the idea behind that smg Ian looked at recently, so I guess that isn't *entirely* false. Only mostly false

>>33676619
>birdshot is great for home defense
>can get shot high center chest at 5 yards and not even react to it
Great HD round.
https://youtu.be/_F_KuFzjOGA?t=1m13s

If you want a HD round with minimal overpenetration, get an AR-15 and use extremely light defense bullets like 40 grain 223. It has less chances of successfully passing through drywall than buckshot or hollowpoint pistol rounds but still remain more lethal to your target.

>>33676703
Isn't there a finnish mortar thats 1mm larger than a soviet one so that the finns can use soviet mortar rounds but not visa versa?

>>33676650
T. Someone who has no experience with aks

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>>33671850
I had an argument with a guy once where he tried to convince me that German Mausers were meant to be able to chamber .30-06 in addition to 7.92×57.

His reasoning was that Germans did this so they could use ammo off of dead GIs. Even after showing him a .30-06 casing wouldn't fit in my k98k, he still dismissed me and reasserted his story.

Never get your gun facts from middle aged alcoholics.

>>33676732
>Fast, small bullets don't penetrate well.

Truly, an immortal meme.

>>33676703
Our stories we've heard are very similar, just mines with Mausers.

Some kind of obsession with dead American soldiers being looted by barbarian enemies I guess.

>>33676744
T. Trained ANA & ANP out of musa qala and sangin.
They blamed the tools, and we said "shitty craftsmen blame their tools" so we had a go and couldn't hit shit.

They eventually got m16s and that was the end of that, but then they complained that they never worked, but in reality it was failure to clean or failure to assemble, or they broke them on ceasefire sundays so they couldn't use them on fun time mondays.

So fuck you civvie cunt.

>>33676732
>use extremely light defense bullets like 40 grain 223.
Yes, those little varmint rounds cooking along at a very comfy 3700FPS have zero chance of penetrating drywall.

>>33676756
Is there a version of this meme for every country the US has ever fought or been hostile to?

I first heard it with 9mm Mak vs 9mm luger, which almost makes sense if you don't understand bullets, but people have heard some fucking crazy versions when it comes to other guns.

>Murican guns can't use Russian made ammo
>The US army should never have replaced the M14 and M1911 as frontline service weapons
>Glocks are plastic pipe bombs
>A 1911 is the only carry gun you'll ever need
>You need to clean every gun immediately after shooting, non corrosive ammo be damned

>>33676732
>>can get shot high center chest at 5 yards and not even react to it
So, everything was fine for her, right? I mean, she just walked home with a crazy story to tell about taking a 12 gauge shot to the chest? I'm guessing not.

Remember Alison Parker, the reporter who got shot on live TV? The guy who shot her mag dumped a 9mm into her, and you can see her running away after getting shot on the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueNS871caps

That's what led a lot of conspiracy nutters to say that the incident was a fake, but the truth is, getting shot doesn't work in real life like it does in the movies. People don't go flying backward, fall to the ground, and instantly die. A lot of times, they'll do exactly what Alison Parker did - turn around, run, get a few feet, and then collapse and bleed out. That's how things go in the real, not-a-movie world.

>>33676808
>>Yes, those little varmint rounds cooking along at a very comfy 3700FPS have zero chance of penetrating drywall.
They're ALL going to penetrate the first double layer of drywall. Even birdshot will do that. However, those ultra light 223 rounds will not pass through multiple layers of drywall like pistol rounds or buckshot, and that's the point.

http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/results.html

>>33676816
>Is there a version of this meme for every country the US has ever fought or been hostile to?
Probably.

I don't understand why these myths exist when 3 seconds of logical reasoning disproves pretty much 100% of all fuddlore.

>>33675558
>"Assault rifles" can't be used to hunt, it'll blow the deer in half

That's not fudd lore, that's soccer mom lore. Fudds will say something like:

>you can't hunt deer 5.56, that tiny varmint cartridge ain't worth a damn

or

>if you need a semi auto to hunt you shouldn't be hunting in the first place

>>33676740

Close, it was the Russians going with 82mm to take advantage of the Germans and French using 81mm

Finns used 81mm but captured enough soviet equipment to use 82mm as well.

>>33676822
>So, everything was fine for her, right?
Yeah basically it was. She survived just fine. I'm sure she had to go the hospital and all of that, but ultimately it barely affected her in the moment, and she would have absolutely retained the ability to continue fighting if that was her state of mind. Keep in mind that pistol rounds are still shit as well, you want to be able to send your attacker into a state of shock or destroy a critical structure, but birdshot is extremely ineffective at that. Probably worse off than pistol rounds.

Why settle on birdshot if that's the case? It'll be better for your health to stick to buckshot or pistol rounds if you want to be lethal and not care about overpenetration, and you'll be miles better off with light 223 round if you want to be more lethal and not worry about overpenetration.

>>33676820
>>Murican guns can't use Russian made ammo
Like how you can't shoot foreign 7.62×39 from a Ruger Mini 30?

>>33676798
>implying you weren't using shitty ammo

>>33676875
>>implying you weren't using shitty ammo
> Implying Militaries use Civilian & match grade ammo that costs 8 times more.

Ak 74s were pretty dope though, accurate and reliable, shame they were shitcanned because they didn't have the ammo & spares.

>>33676798
>>33676875
>implying they weren't fed a consistent diet of corrosive ammo and never cleaned
Those barrels were probably smoothbore levels of worn.

>>33676874
I saw that video last night actually. Some of the older Mini 30 models are picky about ammo.

>>33676916
This. Treat your raifu well and she'll help you

>>33676916
For units trained by Uk forces the Aks were sent to bastion for refurb.

So no.

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>>33676798
Because decades old, neglected AKMs are entirely comparable to well-maintained rifles.

https://youtu.be/Qiq3szgZgjI

https://youtu.be/aa2P83BbIOc

Tanks for your cervix.

>>33676996
>>33676971
read pls

>>33676873
>She survived just fine.

First, "she survived" and "she survived just fine" are two very different ideas. Human beings have survived some pretty terrible wounds, but that doesn't mean they were "just fine" after. Second, as for the idea that she could have fought after that shot, what is your evidence for this? Third, while there are single-shot shotguns in the world, my home-defense gun isn't one of them - if my first shot doesn't kill an attacker, I'll just keep trying until one does. Fourth, nice Talmudic argument style: "If I can find even one single example of something not working, that means I can confidently say that it doesn't work in general". No, actually, you can't. Every generally-good plan or piece of equipment doesn't work sometimes. "Data" is not the plural of "anecdote".

I'm sure she had to go the hospital and all of that, but ultimately it barely affected her in the moment, and she would have absolutely retained the ability to continue fighting if that was her state of mind.

>>33677012
Once saw a dude get hit with an ak. Gets shot sprinted to cover about 100m away, reached cover, collapsed and died on way to base.

>>33676915

5.45 didn't preform is why they dropped it, that and they are a nato member moving to the standard nato caliber.

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>>33676732
Can't comment on the ballistics, but remember that you're probably gonna have a dead dindu in your living room and the need to convince a grand jury, da, or 12 idiots who don't know what an assault rifle is or isn't that you acted without malice.

>>33677012
She probably legitimately needs a safe space and anxiety meds after getting shot in the chest with a shotgun by some random guy in a library.

Some wounds never heal.

>>33677002
They couldn't even fix the L85 that they make. I doubt they did good on aks

>>33671850
>>33677092
>They couldn't even fix the L85 that they make

Thats a Fudd myth right there.

Been serving since 04' and bar two years career break in 2011-2013 i never saw one jam.

Everyone who complains about it is either a REMF or never shot one

Admittedly a bitheavy, but since its a bullpup and most of the weight is in the shoulder it feels lighter that it actually is.

>>33676711
Entirely false. That gun wasn't designed to kill anything. It was a toy that took advantage of a loophole in Mexican law.

>>33677012
She did survive just fine. My evidence that she could have continued fighting was that she was still sound of mind and able to easily move around. She was not in a state of debilitating shock, nor was she critically wounded in a way that physically prevented her from fighting. Had she the state of mind, she could have easily fled or fought. There's nothing preventing this.

That's great your HD shotgun isn't single shot. Neither are most pistols and rifles, but you'd still be better off using one of them because both pistols and rifles probably have higher capacity than your HD shotgun. Probably more maneuverable and quicker on follow up too.

There's a plethora of data on the effectiveness of handguns and rifle effects on the human body, and all the data points that the rifle is vastly superior. There's a lot less data on birdshot on humans, but so far anecdotal evidence shows birdshot to be very ineffective. Anecdotal evidence is much better than no evidence at all. Unless you have better data that can show birdshot as effective for self defense, especially above pistol or buckshot, then you really have nothing to stand on.

>>33677092
And before you say the SAS, Rm, pathfinders, RMPs and spooks dont use it:

SAS & pathfinders & spooks need plausible deniability & silence so have sterile receivers & suppressors

RMs (more specifically fleet protection - as in those that conduct boarding actions) wanted something that could fire special ammo that won't significantly damage bulkheads & puncture hulls.

RMPs (more specifically close protection operatives like my ex) need to stay low profile so needed something that is non identifiable & easier to conceal, as they have to maintain a low profile.

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>>33675578
fucking kek. This one is my favorite.

>>33677041
The latest few high profile HD situations with salt rifles have been very much on the victim's side. Depends on where you are of course, but in most of the free parts of America, you'll get by just fine using an ar-15

>>33676816
Is it possible that all these myths are just poorly-retold and twisted versions of the old British Sten using German SMG magazines?

>>33676732
>making the bullet lighter makes it less likely to penetrate

okay kid

>>33677120
>the L85 was fine, it has no issues
>that's why they had h&k completely overhaul it and make the la8a2, because it was perfect.
Shiggy diggy my dude
>>33677134
I was talking about the smg with the fuckhuge rate of fire. The pistol would be pointless as anything but a range toy since it has such low capacity.

>>33677178
Literally yes since it has less momentum despite higher energy and has a higher chance of fragmentation and tumbling after striking a hard barrier.

see
>>33676824

>>33677183
*l85a2
Goddamn I fucked that up

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>the .45 is a round that has prove itself throughout the ages. If it's good enough to kill nazis, it's good enough for me.
>1911 is my carry gun of choice

>>33676619
>defends fuddlore with overpenetration fudd handwringing
GTFO

>>33677134
>Mexican
He's talking about the American 180

>>33676732
This guy is such an insufferable faggot. He sits there analyzing the situation and spews "tactical" buzzwords while criticizing people for not being situationally aware enough. He'd probably be the first to get shot in a situation like this

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>>33676873
>>33677012
>>33677084
>>33677144
>>33677012

She didn't survive, you dumb fucks. Holy shit I hope y'all are just baiting.

10/10 troll got me rustled.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Alison_Parker_and_Adam_Ward

>>33677327
He can be, but he's not wrong though. You should probably be situationally aware enough to at least notice someone waving around a big hunting shotgun in an empty room.

His channel seems to be more for people to catch up on the basics, and as a collection of shit like this happening. From what I know, he does know martial arts, and does shoot, so I don't think he'd be the first to go

>>33677345
Excellent reading comprehension my friend. Maybe try again

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>>33677327
Not to mention he's a fat lard. So much for covering your asp.

Lost any respect I had reading through his videos where he cries about the """racist""" comments on his videos acknowledging facts. He censors them frequently.

Hes a fat christfag cuck.

>>33676875
Yes. 7.62x39 is shitty ammo that's ineffective past 200m.

>>33677436

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>be Portuguese gun owner
>talking about the stupidity of the assault weapons ban that exist in my country with hunting fudds
>guy that owns a bolt action in .223 claims that it's good to ban those guns because a 5.56 NATO blows animals and people to smithereens
>mfw I try to explain that he's using basically the same round as 5.56 but with some minor insignificant differences to hunt varmint

These guys are fucking retarded.

>>33677436
Max effective range is 300, but I'd agree that do for a combat situation under stress 200 is about the farthest out you can go. That being said,most combat takes place at <250 meters so it does just fine

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>>33675763

F

>>33677497
Goodnight, sweet prince.

>>33676732
not you again, didnt you learn your lesson after you got your shit pushed in the last thread about shotgun defense?

>>33677158
>The "sas use m4s for deniability" fuddlore

SAS use M4s over L85 and SASR over F88 because in CQB you need to transition left and right shoulder to use cover effectively.
CPs and everyone else who can copies SF CQB doctrine.
NonSF get given bullpups because CQB isn't their primary role and it doesn't matter to procurement.

>>33677175
I feel like that is way too uncommon of a thing for fudds to be aware of

>>33677211
I mean, the first point isn't too bad of reasoning.

>>33675558
>A 12 gauge with shot or slugs will blow off limbs
>A .22lr will go for a mile if it doesn't hit anything.

Those are true though.

>>33674051
Lol yeah okay, what about all the hogs I've killed with a .22lr or even a 22 mag? They sure didn't bounce around and shred the insides at all. Half of you are range babies stick to he range, hunters know how to kill effectively and know what calibers actually do to the animal.

>>33671888
.22LR is leathal because it bounces around in the body you retard

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here's a new one
>at lgs
>looking at ammo, trying to find 25-06
>hear fudd behind me talking to someone
>look over
>person picks up remington .223, fudd basically swats it out of their hand and picks up a box of tula
>"you don't want any of that brass shit, brass is a reaaaaal weak metal. you want this here steel. this'll never fail! tougher than them ayyarrbiptanes too!"
>person stammers out a "th-thanks" and just leaves, doesn't even buy the ammo
>don't find my 25-06
>leave

>>33677956
I thought those types hated Tula because it's not Murican

>>33671850
>tfw 5.56 steel ball actually does neither of those and just passes clean through

>>33676647
>implying that isnt at least partially true

>>33675558
>A .22lr will go for a mile if it doesn't hit anything.
It can and sometimes they do. Only if you shoot it up into the air though.

>>33677041
>not living in a castle doctrine state

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>>33671850

This one seriously annoys me. Who would ever believe that a high-velocity .223 round was designed to NOT kill? How do they rationalize the fact that the Soviets apparently thought the idea was good enough to merit copying it for their own guns?

>>33676619
It's not at all. There was a school shooting caught on video and the dude strolls in with a shotty loaded with bird shot and blasts a girl point blank and she just turns around and walks away.

>>33678165
Its not tho, if you ever look at the actual reasons it was chosen it was pretty much exclusively made so people could carry a lot of ammo and fire more shots than the enemy. Even if a shot doesnt kill someone in the theoretical large scale cold war firefights, a wound would still put them out of the fight or less effective. Its not a bad round, but it legitimately is not designed to be any more lethal than more powerful rounds

>>33678006
>implying Vietnam wasn't a war of throwing the most lead in the shortest amount of time

For infantry combat at least.

>>33678188
Full-sized rifle rounds were found to be excessively lethal, that in the game of efficiency they were too killy. No one gets extra points for killing someone twice over. .223 was found to do the job just as well with a much smaller bullet at normal combat ranges. Saying it wasn't designed to kill is bullshit. If it wasn't killy, they wouldn't adopt it.

>>33678207
>>33678188

Not to mention 55 grain FMJ 5.56 is devastating from a 20 inch barrel AR.

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>>33678188

The 5.56 round is phenomenally lethal for its size, and that's purely based on energy, without even taking things like tumbling or fragmentation into account. The muzzle energy of 5.56 fired out of a 20-inch barrel is more than 1700 J. In comparison, a .357 magnum round will have a muzzle energy of 700 - 1000 J depending on whether it is being fired out of a pistol or a rifle with a longer barrel. Nobody would ever argue that the .357 was designed to be non-lethal, yet somehow this is commonly argued for the substantially more powerful 5.56 Nato round.

>>33678207
By that logic there would be absolutely no purpose for .30 machine guns and marksmans rifles that we still use in abundance to this day

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Not a fudd myth but a few years ago I went to a lgs to buy some 5.45 for my new AK and no one there had heard of it and told me it doesn't exist and that I'm mistaken.

>>33678299
>muh bullet diameter

I think that's what it really comes down to for those kind of peoole.

>>33678305
We use those for long-range purposes, that's why I said
>at normal battle ranges

>>33678299
The difference would be mass
Energy really doesnt mean much if theres less surface area for it to distribute to, and the majority of 5.56 steel ball actually tend to pass through soft targets without meeting enough resistance to fragment or tumble

>>33678351
>5.56 steel ball
This is not a thing.
Either you mean M855, which has a steel penetrator, or you mean literal AP ammo, which is just stupid.

>>33678318
Except normal firefights occur at over 500 meters, and the 5.56 drops off at 300

>>33678365
>Except normal firefights occur at over 500 meters
Literally the opposite is true. Which is why we switched to 5.56.

>>33678389
Wrong af
Thats a modern statistic from Afganistan

>>33678299
>>33678314

The two most important factors for determining whether or not somebody survives getting shot are:

1. Location of the entry point on the victim's body. Blood loss is the most common cause of death from gunshot wounds, and so closer the bullet hole to major organs, the more likely death will occur.

2. How quickly the victim gets medical treatment. A person who is quickly stabilized by a paramedic and then rushed to a hospital has a pretty good chance of surviving in most cases.

>>33678365

>Except normal firefights occur at over 500 meters

doubt.jpg

>>33678403
which doesn't hold any weight, because 5.56 was designed in the 60s for innanam when we weren't killing people at ~500yds, and we're sure as shit not gonna restandardize because of sand people

>>33678419
>hurr b-but thats modern times so its irrelevent
Shall I hand you a .30-06 mister Fudd?

>>33678444

Are the Kalashnikovs used by the Taliban more effective at long range? I doubt it.

>>33678419
Considering all we do now is fight sand people, restandardizing wouldn't be a bad idea.

Then again, 5.56 works well enough to keep the enemy engaged til you can call in air support.

>>33678419
Also that "muh jungle cqb" holds no water either, since the shame shit went down in ww2 and in some places in Korea, and basically every soldier from every side of the fights shit talked small caliber rifles. Japs and Italians found the 6.5 too weak despite most combat being pretty damn close, and actually upgraded to .30 rifles. American GI's hated the .30 carbine which ironically has pretty similar ballistics to the 5.56 because it lacked power

>>33677599
>believing they knew about transitions in the 1960s
The SAS have used m16s since the 60s for plausible deniability even when the army used l1a1s
That was back fore CQB was a thing because NI didn't happen yet

>>33676619
>birdshot in a 12 gauge is great for home defense

http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-14-rifles-shotguns-and-walls/

Birdshot is for little birds.

>>33678486
Thats pretty average range for any 7.62

>>33678563
>Thats pretty average range for any 7.62

Noguns pls

7.62x39 looks like a fucking rainbow compared to 5.56x45. Engaging outside of 300 with 7.62x39 is mostly wishful thinking with some shit-tier wounding thrown in.

>>33678305
There's is, it's called long range shots ....

>>33671850
>those damn M855 rounds with tungsten steel tips in them just break apart as soon as they hit anything denser than air

>>33678608
Lmao, speed does not equal rate of descent, that would be weight. It doesnt mean the 5.56 is actually carrying energy at that range, it just means its flying straight. We're talking military application, not your ability to hit paper at a hundred yards while sitting in a lawn chair

>>33676567
>ANY Bolt action guns are more accurate than ANY semi auto
This. A bolt action may have a greater potential for bench accuracy, but shit like the quality/type of the barrel and if its free floated are more important to accuracy when actually used by a person.

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>>33678648

Either Ive been "trolled" or you're an actual retarded person. Either way, good for you I guess.

>>33678563

Both the 5.56x45 and 5.45x39 outperform the 7.62x39 significantly in terms of long-range accuracy potential. This is based on firearms comparison testing conducted in both the USSR and the USA. The USA and USSR both used different methods for determining accuracy that aren't directly comparable, but both ended up gravitating towards smaller, faster rounds.

According to the USSR, the 5.45 had (in the hands of an exceptional marksman) an average dispersion of 56 cm, whereas the 7.62x39 had a much larger dispersion of 83 cm under the same conditions. This is for firing at a target 800 meters away.

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>>33677956
>"you don't want any of that brass shit, brass is a reaaaaal weak metal"
That's the point.

>>33677956
I don't believe this one, fudds hate Tula because it's Russian and they think the steel case makes it armor piercing.

>>33678963
thats what I expected too.
I think he may have missed the 'made in russia" shit.
or it was a box of wolf.

>>33678963
I thought they hated it cause steel cases have laquer that poisons muh AR

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>>33678648
>speed does not equal rate of descent, that would be weight

>>33675558
>>"Assault rifles" can't be used to hunt, it'll blow the deer in half
5.56 is shit for hunting tho. It breaks the meat and makes it unusable for cooking pretty much.

>>33678963
Most people I know hate Tula because they have shitty quality control and often disregard tolerances.

Someone gave a a box of some of their 380 because it wouldn't chamber reliably in their p238, and I had the same thing happen with every 380 I own. It was just shit ammo that was out of spec.

I also bought some of their "hunting" loads of 54r hoping that i would be able to shoot it again steel targets, but since their bullets are bi-metallic and attract a magnet, it's just been sitting on a shelf.

>>33679035
you've either never hunted or have been exclusively hunting with m193 ammo. There are plenty of excellent hunting loads available in 5.56 and .223.

>>33679062
Thats too bad. For whatever reason my Vepr loves .308 Tula and I can get a 1.5 moa grouping with the 65 grain soft point hunting loads.

>>33679101
>for whatever reason
>manly sturdy Russian weapon loves manly sturdy Russian ammo

>>33678725
I mean essensially its true, just not as true as it used to be.

The cheapest centerfire savage you can buy will likely outshoot the cheapest ar15 you can buy.

>>33677860

I'm not sure you understand what this thread is for.

>>33678725
>buying free float meme

>>33678535
>.30 carbine has similar ballistics to 5.56
This is easily the stupidest fucking thing in the thread

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>>33678535

>American GI's hated the .30 carbine which ironically has pretty similar ballistics to the 5.56 because it lacked power

>>33679120
Tula is still garbage by russian standards

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This makes me so fucking angry.

>>33677327
He'd probably be the reason for the shooting so you're right.

Nobody has said
>357 magnum out of a snub nose revolver is as weak as 38 special
>revolvers never have failures

I have basically zero practical experience with firearms but I was told 5.56 NATO was less likely to kill someone outright which meant his buddies would have to stop shooting at you to take care of a wounded colleague hence why it was adopted (in addition to the whole "smaller ammo means you can carry more" thing).

>>33677178

>making the bullet lighter makes it less likely to penetrate

This is literally true.

>>33678648
Your next post will be "I was only pretending to be retarded"

r-right?

>>33679381
Who is this cunt? I think he's the same bitch he drew the "fat bubba with AR that gets droned" picture.

I want to find him and stab him to death.

>>33679502

That's a secondary or perhaps tertiary benefit at best. That was never a primary motivator adopting the 5.56. The most serious primary motivators were always the desire that each individual soldier would be able to carry twice as many rounds on himself into battle, and the belief that a lighter, faster, smaller round would make full-automatic fire much more controllable in comparison to the M14. A soldier firing short, controlled bursts with an M16 is much more likely to score hits than a soldier attempting to do the same with an M14. And besides that, the M14 was a very expensive weapon to manufacture. McNamara ceased M14 production in favor of the M16 because the M14 was simply too expensive and complicated to produce the desired numbers within the desired time frame.

>>33676619
Birdshot is garbage, my grandfather shot a man twice with 12 gauge birdshot from 10 yrs away and the guy just fucking ran away under the adrenaline.

>Germany couldve won WW2 if they did {INSERT RETARDED IDEA HERE}

>>33671850
The 1911 is still viable as a service weapon

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>>33679664

>If only they'd built more u-boats
>If only they'd not attacked Russia
>If only they'd issued STG-44's from the beginning
>If only they'd developed larger bombers
>If only they'd used chemical weapons
>If only they'd used nuclear weapons
>If only Hitler had drafted the jews instead of killing them

>>33679721
Your preferred service pistol matters

>>33675720
That's not unique to Fudds. Plenty of people on /k/ are unaware that .40 S&W is more powerful than. 45

>>33679742
Exactly. Service pistols don't matter, so you should just issue cheap polymer 9mms.

>>33679743
Please elaborate.

>>33679721

>The 1911 is still viable as a service weapon

It basically is, even though better options exist.

>>33678990
Lacquered cases jamming up rifles is another good piece of fudd lore

>>33677211
>neckbeard and manlet
Opinion disregarded.

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>>33679759

If they don't matter, why issue pistols at all?

>i aint carryin nothin smaller than a fuddyfour when it comes to burrs

>>33679759
This
>>33679783
Only spec ops guys and officers have any reason to use pistols and for officers that reason is tradition. Let them buy whatever gun they want with a military discount and a small allowance.

>>33678305
long range performance.

>>33679783
Because sometimes military police and officers need something to threaten people with.

>>33679789

That seems like a completely reasonable opinion.

>>33679808

>Let them buy whatever gun they want with a military discount and a small allowance.

If you want to completely fuck up standardization forever, then sure.

300blk is a fad and 32/20 will do the same job

>>33679836
Like we were saying, pistols are next to useless. It doesn't matter than no one in the squad uses the same magazines as you when you end up shooting two mags in anger your entire tour of duty. Save money by not issuing pistols at all and merely give a stipend to people in positions that deserve it such as MP, officers, and high-speed low-drag units.

>>33678206
That's so fucking funny how yanks believed that volume of fire= victory. NVA guys would drop one GI, fuck off into the bush, and entire sections would just magdump, hitting nothing at all.

>>33676859
Well, I've never had to shoot an animal more than once.

>>33679876
Which is why we killed 1.3 million of them and they only killed 50k of us.

>it's weird that you're into both guns and anime

>>33679869

Everything is useless until you need it.

>>33679502
oh fuck can this "wound soldier so it takes 2 other guys out of the fight" thing die already?

>>33679903
>What are bombs.

Also, America lost. Yep. Lost. Here comes the butthurt.

>>33679921

I think it started as a bullshit excuse that NCO's came up with to placate fudds who were mad about losing the M14's that they had trained with in basic. They would have just told them "do you really want to carry a fucking M14 through miles of jungle?"

>>33679916
By that standard why not give every soldier a shotgun and dmr as well? Equip people for their intended roles, if the plan goes cock-up a withdraw order will be given. Officers and MPs need them to be armed without actively threatening everyone and operator types use it because they are intended to work without much backup so they could conceivably use a backup weapon on a consistent basis. Standard grunts either recon or hold ground, a pistol is a waste of space that could be taken up by more rifle ammo.

>>33679922
>artillery and air support cause more casualties than infantry rifles
Next you'll be telling me that water is wet.

Yeah, but it was a political defeat on the home front, not a military one. The US withdrew because the war was unpopular. And rightfully so, it was a stupid conflict that served no purpose.

>>33679808
I thought the reason Officers carried them was because they're lazy and don't want to lug around a full weight rifle all the time.

>>33679994
There it is! There's the butthurt!

>>33679484
There is some degree of truth to that though. While it doesn't match 38 special exactly it gets pretty close to where for many people the difference isn't worth the recoil.

>>33680014
>post bullshit

>someone posts fairly calm response

>LOL OMG I TROLL U, U SO MAD

>>33680014
>any response to my bait is butthurt and therefore invalid
I feel bad for Yuropoors.

>>33680034
It's just a knee jerk reaction with Americans. You people have to have an excuse because it's unthinkable that you lost a militarily conflict. Someone excuses the loss 100% of the time.
>>33680035
>Implying implications.

>>33680068
>you people
>implying I'm even american

ffs you're an idiot.

once again,

>post bait
>LOL YOU RESPOND YOU MUST BE MAD

ok buddy

>>33674051
long time no see Tommy

>>33675575
That's not terrible reasoning actually, if I were to arm a group of untrained people and had absolutely zero time to train them beyond basic weapons safety I'd probably try to get them all suppressed .22's.

>>33679989

>By that standard why not give every soldier a shotgun and dmr as well?

Because that shit is fucking heavy. A sidearm is by definition lightweight and handy.

>>33680077
Remember that on April 30th, 1975, The United States of America lost a conflict which spanned 20 years, and caused 58000 casualties to US troops. Lest we forget.

>>33676650
You do realize that 300 meters is 328 yards, right?

>>33680068
Yeah. You post low quality bait, and people explain to you why the situation is more complex than that. Then, because you're too stupid to understand it, you dismiss it as butthurt.

I'm not afraid to admit the US has lost wars. We lost the War of 1812 fair and square. But it's just the truth that the Vietnam War was lost in Washington, not Vietnam.

>>33680114
It's lightweight but takes up a fair bit of space. Like the previous comparison, a full-sized pistol plus two spare mags is space that could be two extra mags for the longarm. It's also a thing of cost. If the grunts want an emergency weapon that, statistically speaking, they will never use just give them a stipend and the standard military discount and they can get a subcompact to hide in their carrier for $100 total cost to them.

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>>33680146

If Goldwater had won the 1964 election, things would have been a lot different all around.

>I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle.

>>33680146
Politics determines the endgame in all warfare. Which is why the US didn't win the Iraq war. If the bureaucracy of the Iraqi military didn't form an insurgency, the war would have ended. Wars are infinitely complex, but there are losers in many cases. An it's positively hilarious how you people justify that particular loss.

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>>33679035
>breaks the meat

Well yeah, that's kinda the point

>>33679381

This fucking shit

>.223 out of a bolt action rifle
Totally fine
>.223 out of an AR
It'll blow muh deer in half

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>>33680154

If they're useless then why even offer a stipend? You're saying contradictory things. If pistols truly have no military value, then $0 should be spent on them. But if they do have some value (and the various military forces of the world seem pretty unanimous in saying that they do), then they obviously should be standardized like all other military arms.

>>33675558
>ARs are unreliable
That's not fuddlore, it's fact.

>>33680187
>military kicking ass
>totally winning conflict
>government withdraws troops
>LEL OMG THEY LOST

look, if you can't understand the distinction between a military defeat, or a political decision, that's on you.

>>33680267
>Kicking ass
That's debatable. There's plenty of evidence that tactics were largely in favor of NVA and Viet Kong troops.

>>33680177
Perhaps. We were certainly hamstrung by restrictive rules of engagement and the decision to treat it like a police action and not hold ground once we took it pretty much gaurunteed a long and bloody war. Which only made an already unpopular conflict more unpopular. If we had run it like the Gulf War it would have been over much quicker.

>>33680187
I'm not going to defend Iraq either. It was an unwinnable conflict that was rooted in a lie and lost the moment it began because the objective (getting Arabs to accept democracy) was impossible. It's funny how you assume I'm some kind of blind nationalist.

If you're trying to make a point about the effectiveness of the US Military, and you bring up Vietnam, then it's entirely reasonable to bring up that Vietnam was a political defeat rather than a military one.

So, why don't you stop moving the goalposts and go pay your TV license or full out the background check for your butter knife?

>>33680299
Gonna reveal at this point that I'm a leaf.

>>33680335
That would explain the inferiority complex and amateur hour trolling.

>>33680364
You gotta hand it to you for the projecting. You sure the loss of the Vietnam war didn't instill some inferiority?

Also I'm smug as hell here in the great white north.

>>33680335
>a fucking leaf

I'm a leaf too, stop embarrassing us

>>33680299

Rules of engagement for ground troops were never a problem in Vietnam. Hell, they had free-fire zones where you could kill anything that moved, indiscriminately. The real problem was rules of engagement for bombers, and how they were forbidden from hitting any target that might have actually mattered because "there might be Russian advisors down there and we don't want to kill the Russian advisors because that will expand the war."

The other big problem was Ngo Dinh Diem, the absolute moron. The CIA quite literally should have shot him and replaced him with somebody else, almost anybody else. Somebody who wouldn't go out of his way to make 80% of the country hate him.

>>33679876
When you're ambushed or two forces suddenly meet unexpectedly, the side that puts out the most lead is the side that will either win, or at least walk away with more of their guys alive than the other side.

>>33680437
Not if one guy did the ambushing, dropping one man, buggering off into the jungle, and leaving the enemy to jump into the ditch where conveniently placed shit-covered spikes are hidden.

>>33680392
Like I said, amateur hour.

>>33680431
I should have specified that it was for aircraft.

And yeah, Diem was an absolute moron. If we're going to prop up tinpot dictators they might as well be competent ones.

>>33679732
>if only the Germans didn't alienate disgruntled soviet citizens under occupation, losing out on hundreds of thousands of potential allies
>if only Hitler hadn't halted the March on Moscow by ordering the 2nd Panzer Group south, to capture Kiev in 1941
>if only they had been using the Pz IV H as their main tank from the beginning

>>33680485
I'll be here all night, folks. Keep holding each other close with your excuses for your loss. No one's gonna hurt your armyboo feelies here

>>33680479

>Snipers exist, therefore all soldiers should be snipers

>>33680068
>not knowing the difference between excusing and explaining

This is why we need flags here, so we can more easily ignore Europosters

>>33680528
I'm referring to the absolutely brilliant tactics of jungle warfare employed by Vietnamese fighters during the conflict. Tactics such as the one I mentioned, which caused soldiers to expend serious amounts of ammo to no effect.

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>>33680479
They were forced to fight that way because of the overwhelming firepower advantage the Americans had. When the NVA tried to have a stand up fight they got the absolute shit kicked out of them. And it's not a way of fighting that works in a conventional war. Sure you'll kill a few soldiers, but you can't take and hold ground that way. It only worked because the US wouldn't hold ground or invade the North, so the war dragged on until the population at home got sick of seeing dead soldiers on TV.

>>33680526
t. pic related

>>33680582
This is what's so great about the subject. Feeling the need to explain shows the insecurity. You wouldn't bother arguing if I said the earth was flat, but you'll derail an entire thread over this.
>>33680591
Yeah. It's a shame you still couldn't win within 20 years with all of that overwhelming firepower (i.e, shooting and bombing everything when you heard a branch snap.

>>33680479
So, your example that would happen at most once in a while would justify troops being universally issued a big hitting marksman's rifle?

Holy fuck.

>>33680589

And I'm referring to that fact that it makes no goddamn sense to have all your soldiers be snipers. I don't think you're accurately describing how VA fought, either.

>>33680637
>derail an entire thread
Threads tend to get derailed when nogunz or Euros say something retarded and refuse to stop spewing nonsense, convinced they're absolutely correct.

>>33680637
It's already been explained to you. Your only response is to repeat the same stale bait ad nauseam. You're just making a fool of yourself at this point.

>>33680641
>>33680654
Never once said that was the solution. But volume of fire DOES NOT equate success. It's why any army that doesn't teach all of it's soldiers marksmanship is setting itself up for tons of ineffective fire. And the Vietnamese conducted battles in a hugely varied number of ways. They were super effective gurellas.
>>33680674
Again, leaf.

>>33680685
But you'll still debate me. Curious.

>>33680706

>But volume of fire DOES NOT equate success.

More often than not, it does. A firepower disparity is hard to overcome.

>>33680727
Not if you're not hitting anything. Soldiers recognize effective fire when it's coming at them.

>>33680766

>What is suppression?

>>33680721
It's only a debate if the other person is making an argument. I don't know if 13 year-old tier trolling is considered an argument in Trudeauistan, but it isn't here.

>>33680766
>shooting is only effective if your bullet directly hits an enemy

>confirmed for not understanding warfare

>>33680815
>Trudeauistan
Oh that's why he thinks it was a loss. Because when you kill your enemies then they win.

>>33680257
Prove it.

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>>33678648

>>33671850
I thought it is because it over penetrates since it was meant to hit body armor not haji robes

>>33680839
as a fellow leaf, I apologize for this retard.

>>33680789 >>33680838
Suppression is effective. Magdumping for the sake of magdumping isn't. WE SHOT MORE, SO WE WIN! That is the doctrine, it's retarded.
>>33680815
Responding to said trolling seems dumber still. Fill your boots though, they sure as hell won't ever tromp the soil of a conquered Vietnam, no sir-ee.

>>33676619
Depends I guess. Shot a groundhog at with a 20 gauge at 25yards with #9 shot. Tore a nice hole.

Gimme a break it was the closest gun and ammo at the time.

>>33677041
that's bs fudd lore in and of itself.

>>33679764
People forget velocity exists.

.40 S&W has about 150J more on average compared to .45 ACP.

>>33677194
you still fucked up since it's actually called the L85A1

>>33677993
well if the whole bullet is made of steel then yeah, but nobody makes that because they're not fucking stupid.

>>33678641
the new M855A1 actually is that effective
too bad we need to reinforce guns to actually use it

>>33680873
I'm from Minnesota, we're practically an extension of Canada. I'm just fucking with this guy because he's dumb.

>>33680876
I'd rather have a barely articulate buffoon than a communist pussy.

>>33680876

>Magdumping for the sake of magdumping isn't.

Good thing nobody ever did that then. You're describing a scene from the movie 'Predator" not something that actually occurred.

>>33680966
>M855A1
Am I out of the loop? I didn't know they upgraded it

Is there somewhere I can read about it?

>>33676947
Which video is this? I've seen tons of Mini 30 owners bitching online about their guns not eating steelcase.

>>33677041
Precedent is in our favor now. Tacticool it up.

>>33680288
then why did only 50,000 us troops die compared to 1.3 million viet cong and nva

>>33679783
>why issue pistols at all?
Because been ISIS prisoner is no fun?

>>33680990
People don't understand the difference between the purely military aspects of Vietnam (which generally involved severe ass beatings by the US or at worst parity) and the political crap.

>>33680983
Yeah, it's been in development for quite some time. Google it for some of it's issues and strong points, it's a long story.

>>33681008
Also the movies didn't help. I love Vietnam movies, but they're not an accurate depiction of the conflict.

>>33680983
https://www.army.mil/article/48657
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX4ODh1g4eM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIKdstJP7Qw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdHEE6RTIPc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QItA83cPpS4

>>33676647
It wouldn't have been the worst thing.
A jungle war isnt the best place to do widespread tests of a prototype rifle.

>>33677327
>>33677347
>>33677379
Active Self Protection is great. It's very basic info but he releases a new video like every single day.

It's a fantastic resource to see real life attacks, real life shootings, etc. No other channel is like that, he is a really great curator.

Sure he's fat, sure he's a Jesus freak, and sure his 5 Ds are gimmicky, but he does some things that are great:

1. Curates tons of self-defense & criminal videos
2. Talks about dealing with multiple threats
3. Talks about proper shooting technique
4. Talks about carrying gun in ready condition
5. Don't draw on drawn gun
6. 5 Ds are gay sounding but fairly correct.

So fuck off if you don't like ASP

>>33676778
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZTBPpZk0Mc

>>33678506
The M4 is doing great in Iraq and in the cities. It's super accurate and easy to use, there have been claims of war crimes because of the high incidence of headshots against insurgents, but it's just because the gun is easy to use and accurate.

The only place it is suffering is in the open areas of Afghanistan, where the engagements are 600-800 yards sometimes. It's also difficult terrain so any firefight is going to be difficult, especially when you're being ambushed since they can take the high ground and fire from defilade, which is extremely difficult to fight back against.

>>33681061
it wasn't a prototype until the fucking US Ordinance decided "Let's save money by not chrome plating anythiong or give out cleaning kits, oh and new powder? Fuck that, let's just use shit from WW2 in our space age new gun."

I hate US Ordinance so much.

>>33681106
>there have been claims of war crimes because of the high incidence of headshots against insurgents
Holy cow these threads attract retards

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>5.56 was designed to wound, not kill
>5.56 was intentionally designed to be a less-lethal round

Literally heard this just yesterday

>>33681061
But the problems with the M16 were ironed out completely in very little time. And were only due to stupidity on the Army's part, not the design.

And the M14 *was* pretty much the worst weapon for Vietnam. A full power, wood-stocked rifle that was useless in automatic mode, in a wet jungle war with very close engagement distances and lots of ambushes.

>>33681110
It's ironic that the most gun-saturated country has had some of the most clueless and idiotic Ordinance departments in history.

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>>33681033

I've heard that the most accurate Vietnam movie is actually Forrest Gump.

>>33681061

>It wouldn't have been the worst thing.

Yes, it absolutely would have. Do you have any idea how much an M14 weighs? 9.2 pounds, empty. And it will feel a great deal heavier than that when you're required to carry it through 30 miles of jungle, on foot. It's true that the introduction of the M16 was horrifically botched, but that had nothing to do with the rifle itself. Don't make me pull up the video of the mud test with Ian and Karl. Too late, I already did it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyXndCxn9K4&t=705s

>>33681133
that's a well documented fact though, there was an investigation into the high frequency of headshots in Fallujah, turns out M16A4's with ACOGs make insurgent heads fairly easy to hit.

>>33681164
Shooting people who are shooting you has never been and will never be a war crime.

Barring maybe shooting them in the testicles. That's just rude.

>>33680970
Aw jeez, hope the yogert's not to spicy for ya fella. Wait, you mean Trump over Trudeau? I said tromp not Trump, as in walk, you illiterate hot dish sucker.

>>33681179
yes, but the higher ups in the army thought that the high frequency of headshots could be attributed to executions.

>>33681179
The investigation was because they thought they were executing them. It turned out they were all actual combat hits. The M16+ACOG was just so accurate that it looked like an execution.

>>33681186
Well pardon me for assuming you were stupid enough to misspell the name of the president. It would be about on par with what you've displayed so far.

>>33676874
>>33676947
>>33680987

i dunno which video, but it's not really controversial that there are at least several years' worth of mini-30s that don't have a strong enough hammer spring to pop russian 7.62x39 primers.

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>>33681179

>Shooting people who are shooting you has never been and will never be a war crime

He literally never implied that. You're the idiot here, I'm afraid. The incident that he's referring to was real. So many insurgents died due to headshots that it made some folks suspicious that that they might have been summarily executed without trial.

>>33680990
Still couldn't win in 20 years.

>>33681231
>Look mom, I posted it again!

>>33680982
"An author argues that the widespread use of automatic rifles such as the M-16 by the US army in Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos, along with the "... concept of saturation fire and general abandonment of the principles of individual marksmanship and weapon performance" led to military failures; he argues that "...there must be a balance between accuracy and firepower in the general application". -World Heritage Encyclopedia.

>>33678313
How the fuck does someone not know what 5.45 is.

>>33681231
>pull all troops out of country except a few embassy guards and maybe a MACV team or two
>NVA steamrolls the ill managed and corrupt South only after 4 years of recovery from the wrecking our air force did to them in two weeks
>"lul couldn't win"

>>33681283
Sooo, maybe don't pull out?

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>>33681263

>An author
>No name just "an author."

>>33681296
this is terrible advice.
Good thing we're all virgins here.

>>33681263
>some unknown guy said this
>some non-military focused publication published it
Any idiot can make stupid claims in a book.

>>33681296
Blame the hippies and commie 5th columnists

>>33681263
the author is a retard. There was no abandonment of marksmanship, it's just impossible to fucking see far in a jungle.
>>33681296
that's what would've won the war, invading the North and bombing the shit out of anything trading with them.

>>33681305
kek

>>33676744
aks are like 3moa usually they're not meant to be super accurate you autist. they're meant to be an uneducated 3rd world farmer's best friend

>>33679381
The more I look, the more am I infuriated.

>A
>FUCKING
>TOGGLE SWITCH

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>>33681052
Thanks man

>>33681327
>aks are like 3moa usually
Which, it should be noted, is more than fine for a rifle intended to be used by conscripts with iron sights. You can't really exploit more accuracy than that without glass and more extensive training.

I don't like AKs personally but they're perfectly good rifles for their intended purpose .

>>33681327

>aks are like 3moa

Maybe versions made in the USA. An AK47 variant manufactured in the USSR or one of its many satellite states would be lucky to achieve 5.0 MOA. Of course, the switch to 5.45 largely remedied this.

>>33678313
I also have been told this by more than one "gun guy".
It kills me to hear, "Do you mean 5.56?"

>>33681434
Well it was designed as a submachine gun. The SVD was supposed to do the accurate shooting in a squad.

>>33678648
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha you remind me of an idiot master bomber from my old regiment who thought that 800m maximum range of the c9 meant that the bullet flew dead straight for 800 meters then dropped straight to the ground, thanks for the laugh retard

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>>33678313
Lol down here I mention anything AK74 everyone gives a blank state and says, "You mean an AK47?" With the dumbest look on their face. I seriously think most here think AK variants are only 7.62, 5.56, 12 gauge, and .308

>>33679659
>10 yrs away

Was time traveling ammo? Did he shoot it through a wormhole?

>>33679502
I'll give you a pro tip. Medical attention isn't rendered until the threat has been killed or at least suppressed. You're not even supposed to try to retrieve the guy until its reasonably safe to do so. So no extra soldiers will be taken out of a fight by wounding a single guy.

>>33679876
He didn't say it equaled victory you inbred island nigger. The doctrine of the time was volume of fire > anything else.

>>33678365
this post is bait

>>33680117
>20 years
It was 8. 1965-1973.

>>33681164
Is there a source on that?

>>33676522
>A .22lr will go for a mile if it doesn't hit anything.
>pretty much true

Quite skeptical of this, P H A M B

>>33682365
Depending on what you're shooting it out of and at what angle, yeah, pretty much any round will go a mile or more. Will it be accurate? Absolutely not. Can it do it? Probably.

>>33671850
>"The soviets copied the STG from the Nazis for the AK"

>>33682429
Oh, I thought you meant "Shoot a .22lr from a 90 degree angle out of a ruger 10/22". I didn't think you meant "under ideal conditions" or whatever. My bad.

>>33680987
>>33681218
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQA3gKNoXmo
This video. Hope Tulammo works better in an M1 carbine because I have 1,000 rounds of that shit.

>>33681062
Fuck off cunt he even preaches the tactical turtle that most 3 Gunners and people like Miculek who train special forces don't advocate

>Hurr if you don't like my fat role model fuck off

Kill yourself

>>33678188
This guy knows what's up. The only power requirements of an intermediate cartridge are to be capable of putting a man out of the fight. After that point the requirement of being light and small enough to carry around a lot takes precedence.

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>>33680843
>Military tests
>After Action Reports.
>Why everyone is going to piston.

>>33674051
>but the 22 will really counce around the bones maybe 20-50 times and pretty much shred you alive.
I love the effort you put into your troll posts, you;re like a breath of 2004. How are your mom and that whore aunt of your doing?

>>33682878
All my AR15s are short stroke pistons, My soon to be completed pistol will also be a piston. fuck DI

>>33676566
>that 7.62x39 ayy kay is not good enough for bear defense
> what you need so, is a .44 mag
I carry a .44 mag when I'm out and about on my wooded land and have no fear about stopping a black bear with a couple rounds. The .44 mag is a fucking cannon with super hot loads.

>>33671850
>Yer saying Yer gun don't have a safety? And Yer carrying it around loaded?!?! You'll shoot yerself!

>>33682878
>posting a video from a company trying to shill their own product
So are you literally ignoring the part where they purposely tilt the barrel up to obstruct?

>>33680114
yeah great lets just issue all the grunts another few items of kit for them to lose/break, instead of 2 extra mags/shit tickets/MREs/Can of dip/what the fuck ever.

the armorers and requisitons officers would fucking love ya buddy.

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>>33675662

>>33682916
I think the idea is that 7.62x39 is more capable than .44, which is definitely correct. However, a .44 is incredibly effective for the size of the firearm you can carry, whereas if you're carrying an AK you could just have easily brought along a twelve gauge

>>33679732
>If only they'd built more u-boats

umm anon...Germany only had like 60 u-boats at the start of the war if they had built more they could have sunk even more allied merchant ships even if this wouldn't have won them the war it still would have been a good strategic choice.

>>33682916
If you don't want to carry a rifle, carry bear spray

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>>33678540
What is Malaya?
CQB before NI
>note every second guy covering left flank by holding lefthanded in the J
Could do it with L1A1, Owen, DeLisle, M2 Carbine, AR15 or even Browning A5 - but not Bullpups so no L85

>>33681296
>>33681312
What exactly do you suggest we should've done? Stayed and spent decades, billions of dollars and tens of thousands of American lives on an indefinite occupation of a country full of hostile people who had the support of enemy superpowers? Even if we'd completely crushed uncle Ho's military we'd be dealing with nonstop resistance and guerrillas to a degree that would make Al Queda, the Taliban, or ISIS look like small time burglars, and that's IF the Chinese or the Soviets didn't go for a full-force invasion and turn it into WWIII.

>>33671850
My all time favorite from my place of employment
>.300 blackout was developed because marines needed to punch through mud hut brick walls, I'd know I developed it, 5.56 just wouldn't hit bricks like that 30 cal
>7.62x51 military rifles and .308's shoot 7.62x54r, they just don't eject because the extractor is too small
>.308 is a military cartridge, if you want a hunting cartridge buy a .30-06

>>33683669
This thread is so fucking derailed right now but thank you for trying

Had someone at cabela's tell me "If you enjoy shooting guns then you are a danger to society"

Like nigga I cant make this shit up,just let me buy my targets and leave me alone

>>33683101
i think that was actually only rock salt.

>>33677191
>I have no concept of physics
>I don't understand velocity

>>33683618
>this retarded
L85 didnt come out until 1985 dipshit

>>33677211
>Wang Wang
>Food Store
they can keep their "hood"

>>33679998
Like he said, Tradition.

But in all seriousness it came out of the fact that the job of an officer or NCO is to lead and control, not to pull a trigger. So they'd get issued a weapon that is suited for self defense rather than offensive combat.

>>33679381
>>>33678648
The trigger is backwards

>>33677211
>if its good enough to kill nazis, its good enough for me
Sounds pretty solid to me man.

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>>33679636
Your post made me smile.