What was the best sub machine gun of WW2 and why was it the Owen Gun?

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Youre wrong though and heres why.

>>33650798

You misspelled baretta m38

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>>33650817

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>>33650937
Cooler for sure but less practical.

>>33650946
Explain

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>>33651025
Almost every reason 1 gun is better than another for fighting with or arming your military
really read a book nigger seriously

>>33651037

but in cod 2 the PPSh has 71 rounds and the PPS only 32!

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The only WW2 sub machine gun that would have passed the inrange mud test.

>>33650798
Simplicity
Reliability
Used by sick cunts

>heavy
>bulky
>long
>best
Yeah ok.

>>33650937

PSS had the same accuracy and combat effectiveness, yet being 600 grams lighter and 3 times cheaper to produce than PPSh.

>>33651360

Those drum magazines are heavy and not very reliable.

>32

35.

>>33650862
So did you

>>33651758
Also, it sucks to load those single feed PPSH mags.

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>>33651731
this

M3A1 and PPS43 are best in class

>>33651731
You realise the Owen gun would most likely pass the test as well.

>>33651775
Only issue I have with the M3 is the cocking the hot bolt under stress with your bare thumb.

Other than that, it basically won the cheap open bolt stamper of the World Wars.

>>33651784
>open bolt gun without a dust cover passing the mud test
Sure thing buddy.

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I wish I could put together a nice semi owen. The pps43/52 is a fun gun though

>>33651795
I'm actually quite doubtful of the bolt heating up so much that using the finger groove becomes unbearable even after a soldier has fired all of his magazines. The gun is an open bolt so the only time the bolt will be touching anything hot is for a brief second after firing. The bolt doesn't even really come into direct contact with the barrel at any point, which is the part of a gun that really heats up.

>>33651809
>Another unusual feature is the separate compartment inside the receiver, which isolates the small-diameter bolt from its retracting handle by means of a small bulkhead. This prevents dirt and mud from jamming the bolt, and makes the Owen a highly reliable weapon.

:^)

>>33650817
Winrar

>>33651910
You see that gaping hole in front of the trigger guard known as an ejection port?

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The suomi of course. Fuck off with your cheap copy commie trash.

>>33651994
>Owens proven in combat from WW2 to Vietnam to be incredibly reliable
>A anon on a Nepalese mounting climbing forum says otherwise

I guess all those mud and sand tests were faked then.

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>>33652007
Suomi is a good gun but is legit heavy as fuck

>>33652025
>not capable of using grade school level logic

>>33652043
>Foreign dirt entering the gun would collect at the back of the receiver, where it will drain or be expelled out through a small opening. When tested, the Owen gun was able to continue firing despite being dipped in mud and drenched with sand, while a Sten gun and a Thompson also tested stopped functioning at once.[6] In jungle warfare where both mud and sand were frequent problems, the Owen gun was highly regarded by the soldiers.[7]

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bunch of slackjawed faggots itt, how about rooting for your own team for a change you communist twinkle toed cock suckers?

>>33652115
Expensive over-rated gangter shit.

It was the Tec-9 of the 20's and we all know it.

>>33650862
Yeah, you too nigguh

>bArretta...

>>33651731
If I was in WW2 I'd have wanted this

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>>33652124
seemed to kill hans and tojo just fine, in fact even finland, a country of 4 million lost more people than we did thompson > all

>>33652115
>>33652160

>being coarse and retarded is fun! XD

>>33652172
>i ignore statistics and go with muh feelings
libshit out REEEEEEE

thompson > all america does war best

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>>33652160
Pic related did the same job at half the price of even the most simplified Thompson while also not weighing 10.6 fucking pounds.

>>33652142
they still issued those to us up until 1997. Mine was basically a smoothbore.

>>33652160
>finland, a country of 4 million lost more people than we did
Go back to school, 407k is a lot more than 89k

>>33652160
>Not including the fact that Germany and USSR was the main cause of their casualties
>Forgetting that a majority of Japanese losses were in Naval battles and few were in small-arms conflict
>Forgetting that artillery/rockets/bombing kills scores and scores more than general small arms fire.

Sure, we come in late and kick ass, but still going with the $200 a unit (back in the 1940's prices) SMG that was out of date when it was in production over something vastly superior and better made (M3 Greaser) is beyond me.

Then again, there is an allure of the Chicago Typewriter... It is aesthetic as fuck.

>>33651731
>>33651775
The grease gun didn't see much WW2 use, though. The first batch had some kinks to iron out, and when they finally started to roll it out en masse the war was just about over.

Definitely the best SMG of Korean War.

S T E R L I N G
T
E
R
L
I
N
G

>>33652537
Still has dem gaping hole for ingress of filth in the receiver.

>>33652542
More like ingress of my dick

>>33650798

WW2 vet here. When I landed at Stalingrad with the 82nd airborne I lost my mg42 in the jump and had to take a ppsh off a dead kraut. it was pretty fucking good ill tell you what.

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>>33652537
>>33652542
It's a great gun. Folding stock is impossible to use quickly but as long as that's not your main thing they are great. Holes for vent don't really go to the reciever. Area for the reciprocating charging handle is the only real area for dirt

>>33652668
Also the ejection port unless you carry it bolt close.

>>33652702
True

>>33652668
Wiselite? Been trying to pick one up for a short while. 9mm or 7.62?

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>>33653029
The crinkle coat makes it almost impossible to read. Wiselite 7.62 tokarev. I have the 9mm parts in a box I bought at the same time. I just have a lot of tokarev to shoot

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you are all wrong, there's just one way to water the garden

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>>33652160
>A country that was never invaded or threatened with invasion and had the ability to pick and choose what situations it sent its military into suffered fewer casualties than countries that didn't have the luxury.

Really activated my almonds

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>>33653131
this

>>33653108
Nice. How easy is it to swap components?

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>>33650798

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>>33653192

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>>33653201

>>33652587
Helluva shotgun.

>>33653183
Going to 9mm from Tok and vise versa is never too hard for most guns. This one I wouldn't swap in the field but is relatively simple.

>>33653267
What all do you have to swap? How do the barrels come out?

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>>33653349
Tok in the gun 9mm next and a blaster/pistol tokarev barrel I bought because it's hilarious..that one doesn't fit on these but it was cheap and I bought it the same time as the 9mm barrel.

See the threads mid way up the barrel; that's the point it locks into the nut in front of the shroud. I can't speak for that century one that has the shroud that goes full length. Uzi swaps barrel at the front. Super simple. Way I learned for sterling was to disassemble from the rear taking the bolt out first.

>>33653201
>tfw 75 bucks for an OWEN magazine

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>>33651994
Nah, they work in mud just fine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23M6H_rec6Y

>>33653532
>some old af propaganda movie.

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>>33653422
>tfw no full retard MK7

>>33652025
>proven to be reliable
You could say the same thing about the ak.

>>33653573
It officially beat everything the US used in comparative testing (US then bought 1000's of them to replace the thompsons) it then beat everything the UK produced as well.
http://www.forgottenweapons.com/the-australian-owen-smg/

>>33653422
Nice, that looks pretty easy. Is it just the barrel that needs swapped or do you need to change up the recoil spring, bolt, etc?

>>33653754
9mm and tok are same bolt. That's why the swaps are so common. I usually leave the same Springs in and don't see an issue. I have several sets of Springs though
>>33653582
I should get into the auto game. I have done the class 3 thing 2 times both during Obama and they were a nightmare. I did conventional not trust and it was a pain

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>>33653801
I should also mention the mags are different. Tokarev mags are converted sten mags. Have to cut the center out and reweld.

>>33652668
gotta get one of these to do an E-11 build with
need my Stormtrooper blaster

>>33653845
are the magwells the same?

>>33653708
Well yeah everything else at the time had the same problems, ie. exposed ejection port and so on.

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>>33653884
Same magwell. Sterlings can use sten mags but steps can't use sterling mags. Sterling swaps are barrel and mag only. 9mm barrels are pretty easy to find so I went with a tokarev gun to easily buy the 9mm pieces.

>>33653950
is that one of those disgusting plastic M11/9 magazines?

>>33653950
What's the going price these days? Local dude is asking $800 for a 9mm one.

>>33653950
You need to chop that barrel down son.

>>33653988
I have several of those shitty mags. Plan is to cut and plastiweld those for more tok mags. Cheap and I'm not cutting anything decent up.>>33654002
For a wiselite that's about it. I think I was $750 plus shipping and transfer several years back for the tokarev one because I'd been hunting one. It was 100% sketch but turned out fine
>>33654012
I need to chop my pps43/52 down first. Long as fuck

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>>33650798
>Mfw in Australia everything is upside down including where you put the magazine.
What a bunch of sick cunts.

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>>33654081
Pic related

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>>33650798

>>33651731
I had a first sgt in 2004 that fought in Desert Storm. He is/was an apache crew chief.

there was a picture from desert storm in his office. he is standing somewhere in south Iraq at his FARP. He is holding a grease gun.

I ask him about it one day. he tells this story of how he was a young sgt at a base in saudi arabia. all he had for a weapon was a M9 pistol. walking through a staging area full of tanks to get ready to fly into iraq to set up a farp. someone pops out of an abrams and asks him what is going on. my first sgt says he is going to set up a FARP. the tanker asks if all he has is that pistol, and first sgt said yes. the tanker tells him to hold on a minute and disappears into the tank. then a minute later pops out with a grease gun and 6 full magazines. tanker hands the weapon to him and says take it because the weapon had been in the tank for years after been written of as lost in the field. so no one would miss it.

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>>33654002
is it an original Sterling?

the century arms ones (wiselite) are now around 1k
>tfw they were sold fold for 4450$ just a few years back
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/07/joe-grine/gun-review-century-arms-international-wise-lite-arms-sterling-sporter/

>>33654116
>4450$
fuck my keyboard
meant 450

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>>33654104
Bait. Assault rifle isn't smg

>>33654100
that's a nice bathroom

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>>33654180
4 you

>>33654145
it started out as the MP44

>>33654247
I really wish hmg wouldn't have taken fucking 2 years....

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>>33654889
>>33654889
I really wish HMG made a decent replica/clone/whatever apologists are calling it

looks like ass, only superficially like a real StG
as it stands, only use I see for it would be a host to make a Star Wars Hoth A280 blaster

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>>33654913
>right side magazine button

Holy shit I could forgive them even with the shitty stampings and retarded standard caliber accomidation fucking up everything else about the gun, but to then invert the magazine release JUST to conform to ar15 magazines EVEN ON THE 7.92 VERSION. REEEEEEEEEEE

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>>33654913
>>33654974
Still waiting on the official launch to sell my stockpiled kurz. I'm autistically using the stg chest rig for ak74 mags since I cancelled my order at the one year mark.

>>33655463
shit, that's way cool
didn't know they fit Ak-74 mags

>>33655549
Not great but it's close. Stretching it out a bit

>>33655612
I'll stretch you out a bit.

>>33654913
I mean honestly how hard could it have been to just stamp grooves in the right places?

>>33655671
Bring it bby

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BANZAI!

>>33655767
Wait.....wait.....that doesn't seem right

>>33655780
It was never officially adopted but some small number was made and used by Japanese soldiers. The Type 100 is more commonly known, even if those too were still fairly rare. Both the Type II and Type 100 used the 8x22mm Nambu.

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>>33655829
I know my fair share of nambu but that just seems...off
I have read reports from 1946 in India regarding a type 2 though

>>33655872
Neat. I'd love to get a Type 14 one day.
What seems off about it though? There's a few versions of the Type II since it was only really a test design.

>>33652115
Man, the Thompson is the kind of gun that I know logically isn't really that good, but I've seen it in so many films, video games and it's so classic that I can't help but like it. Kind of like the BAR.

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>>33656009
Most I've seen look like pic related. Not a whole lot did the pistol grip mag smg. It's super strange for that age

>>33656093
Oh okay, I've seen that one as well. I think the one you posted it known as Model A and the one I posted is Model B.
But I've seen some switching those designation around.
Forgotten Weapons has an article on it: https://www.forgottenweapons.com/submachine-guns/japanese-model-ii-type-a/

But even they said there's very little info they could find on it.
Both look really cool.

>>33656154
Yeah would love to shoot one. Predates czech pistol grip smg

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even americans liked it

>>33656297
thats a kraut mate

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>>33653754
Got bored so I swapped to 9mm today. One of my regular sten mags was dogshit. I'll be throwing that away. Surprisingly the plastic mags were great

>>33653131
He looks like a Vogon from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

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>>33657138
yeah, and I was talking about the mp40, that is present on the pic, that even americans liked it.

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>>33650798

>top loading magazine
>best sub gun

Its this sort of thinking that lost them the Emu wars.

>>33650937
PPSH, heck of a shotgun

>>33652172
It is, and you're a faggot.

>>33652115
Quoting Jesse Ventura and Gunny. I like this guy

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>>33654372

Sten, PPSH, or M3 Grease Gun

>>33650817
there's actually someone selling an original one of those converted to semi auto and with a welded stock on armslist near me. it's pretty neat.

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>>33651994
>>33651731
>>33651784
>>33651809
https://youtu.be/23M6H_rec6Y

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>>33661243
God bless Australia

>>33661069
Pps43c imported from poland

>>33661243
>some old ass propaganda video
yeah ok

>>33661951
criticise the Owen again and I'll fucking stab you cunt

>>33662001
>wide
>open
>ejection
>port

>>33662086
>sand
>mud
>water
>still operational

what else do you fucking want to see cunt

>>33662001
Note that you have threatened to stab him and not shoot him with an Owen gun since if you want to own one, you'd have to move to a country like the US.
Oh irony.

>>33662098
>believing in some old ass propaganda video

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>>33650817
>the stretch limousine of submachine guns

Fixed.

>>33650798
Here is how I see the various aspects of WWII submachineguns

>Weight
Lighter is better. Yes I understand that more weight helps controllability but a 'light' SMG in WWII is generally still around 7lb unloaded.
>Cost
Cheaper is better
>Rate of fire
Higher is better with sub-.45 SMGs. We're generally talking about 7-10lb shoulder-fired firearms that are shooting pistol cartridges. Higher rate of fire is good for moving targets, but with LMGs I believe a slower rate of fire is better. Rifle ammo is heavy so you don't have as much, rifle ammo overheats barrels more quickly, and rifle ammo has more recoil. That's a conversation for another time though.
>Select-fire mechanism
With a slow enough rate of fire like that of the MP40 or M3 "Grease Gun", you don't entirely need it, but I'd rather a firearm that can shoot at a high rate however can be switched to semi-auto for more controllability rather than only having either slow-auto or simulated semi-auto with quick trigger pulls.
>Mag position
Gravity-assisted feeding is nice, I'm sure it helps reliability, but personally I'd rather the mag be underneath. This is more-or-less just preference.
>Drum vs stick mag
Sticks are lighter, cheaper, and less bulky. If they're reliable however, which seems to be the case with SMGs of WWII, then they'd probably be very nice to have especially with something like a PPSh-41 which blows through over 15 rounds per second.
>Sights
Adjustable is nice, though not entirely necessary. As long as the sight picture is unobtrusive I'm quite ok. 100yd/100m zero is preferred over 50yd/50m zero.
>Manual safety
Yes please
>Folding stock
Meh, if I were to be dropped into WWII I'd rather be a basic Infantryman rather than Airborne or a tank crewman. Folding stock isn't a big thing for me, especially with a bad barrel-to-overall-length ratio.

With all these aspects taken into account, I believe the Russians really nailed it with the PPSh-41. PPS-43 is also God-tier, for weight/cost.

>>33650937
ppsh, nothin personnel... kraut

>>33651775
I see a lot of M3 love, however I have some issues with it. Firstly, it was the original M3 that seen FAAAAAR more action than the M3A1 in WWII, so we may as well ignore the A1 unless we're talking post-war, which we're not. The M3 was made to be as cost-effective as possible, which is generally good... to an extent. The M3 had various issues, for instance the cocking lever had a tendency to become damaged, the rear sight could be easily bent with rough use or dropping it, and the bolt of the M3 didn't have the cut-out necessary for easy manipulation with your finger so if the cocking lever DID break then you're kind of screwed.

The rate of fire was VERY slow, around 400 RPM if memory serves which is even slower than the MP40 I think. It's .45 ACP though, and the SMG itself is RELATIVELY light (2lb+ lighter than Thompson), so the slower RPM works in its favour in this case. With the MP40, being heavier and firing the smaller 9mm cartridge with the softer recoil impulse, it doesn't really have an excuse for having a slower RPM. If a little old grandma can control it on full-auto, then ramp things up for the big, strong soldiers who will be fielding it. With a bit of training they'll be controlling it like a champ, and a higher RPM will allow for hitting moving targets with more ease.

I love .45 ACP, I love the M1911, but I would NEVER want a primary firearm in .45. About 20-21 rounds per pound for 230gr Ball. 115gr Ball 9mm is more like 35 rounds per pound, so you can carry almost twice as much 115gr 9mm (common in WWII, 124gr is more common today I think). So ANY .45 SMG automatically takes a hit for ammo weight. In spite of my preference for .45 ACP, I wholeheartedly believe 9mm is the better cartridge for an SMG. I think 7.62x25 is even better. It's even lighter than 9mm, and the higher velocity means you don't need to lead as much. Also, dat penetration, not that that's a particularly relevant point for WWII.

>>33650937
>no way to comfortably fire the gun without possibly jamming the gun, taking out the mag or hurting hands until they introduced box mag
>drum mags had to be made specifically for every single model
>heavy
That said, at least recoil was negligible.

>>33654372
>>33661054
>Thompson better than PPSh-41
>Thompson is heavier
>Thompson has heavier ammo so can't carry as much
>Thompson is most costly
>Thompson has slower RPM to make up for recoil of big .45 boolits
>Thompson has lower capacity because of big .45 boolits
>Thompson has half the velocity because of big .45 boolits
>Thompson better than PPSh-41

Never go full-retard. I literally can't think of a single thing that the M1A1 or M1928 Thompsons do better than the PPSh-41. Oh, the M1928 had a 100-round drum that I don't think ever seen Military use, and was likely also a jam-o-matic not to mention fucking massive and weighed over 7lb. 100 rounds of 230gr Ball .45 ACP, without a mag, weighs 5lb on its own. An M1928 with a 100-round drum would literally weigh more than an unloaded M1918 BAR from WWI.

It looks cooler, I give it that, but seriously it's laughable for anyone to suggest that either the M1928 or M1A1 Thompson are better than a PPSh-41. Ameritard/10.

Which SMG would be the worst, excluding WWI antics? Sten?

>>33662269
Sten was fine for what it was

>>33662269
Sten was light, cheap, and reliable enough to get the job done. It was also easy to maintain, was select-fire if you wanted to do some semi-auto plinking, and being in 9mm it was lighter. So there's a lot going for the Sten, in spite of its crudeness.

I hear the Type 100 was an unreliable design, but I don't know that for sure so won't comment on it further. As for the MP40, it had a very slow rate of fire, it was up around 9lb so I personally believe it could have afforded to be sped up a bit by shaving some weight off the bolt, for its overall length it has a pretty short barrel, there's no select-fire mechanism except on the MP41 with the wooden stock, and so all-in-all I consider the MP40 to be one of the more lacklustre SMGs of WWII. Is it the worst? I highly doubt it, but even if it were that's like saying the M91/30 is the worst bolt-action of WWII. It's still a thoroughly proven and adequate design, but the push-feed bolt makes it in theory inherently less smooth than a controlled-feed bolt, and the fact the clips don't automatically eject upon closing the bolt also inherently gives it a slower reload than most other bolt-actions.

Also, the last-ditch Type 99 or last-ditch Wehrmacht bolt-actions were probably the worst bolt-actions of WWII. If we're talking standard-issue bolt actions and non-last-ditch, I think I'd consider the Mannlicher-Carcano the worst. I find the bolt to be clunky as shit, I hate the safety, and though the en bloc system makes for very smooth reloads and the irons are pretty cool, I just don't much like it. Still a good rifle, just one of my least-favourite of WWII, even though it was certainly plenty good enough to kill what might have been one of the greatest Presidents in US History.

>>33662323
A m3a1 grease gun type dust cover/safety/charging cutout system would have been godsent for the sten.

>>33662323
On the flip side, Sten was certainly not enough to assassinate Heydrich, since it jammed.

File: 5916681b5311.jpg (410KB, 1280x833px) Image search: [Google]

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Imma post some WW2 SMG pics

>>33653168
>6_million_dews.webm

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SMGs from the Finnish army's armory circa WW2, 1/6

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>>33662521

2/6

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>>33662530

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>>33662535
4/6

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>>33662549
5/6

>>33661243
lol those cuts between the torture treatment and actual firing of the gun. i totally buy that they didnt swap it out

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>>33662555
6/6

>>33662566
Yeah well it is pretty much just a straight up propaganda video.

>>33662566
it was the 1940s you fucking retard

>>33662572
Likely a newsreel, not 'propaganda'

>>33662587
And?

>>33651822
on the far left looks retarded desu famalam

>>33662593
Dude that's what propaganda is.

>>33662594
Did you expect them to run a continuous shot of the guy soaking it in mud and then walking back to the range?

>>33662603
>dump mud on the gun
>shoot the gun
Idk why that would be so hard to do in a continuous shot.

>>33662609
because it was the 40s and they didn't care about proving their claim in that video to some fat nerd 75 years later

>>33662640
>here this video proves it
no it doesn't
>oh the point of the video isn't actually to prove it

Ok there famalam.

>>33662269
Thompson

>>33662269
Type 99 or else some other weirdo jap gun
8mm Nambu is anemic as shit

>>33653131
seriously who is this fatso? I feel like i recognise him?

>>33650937
What's with the sights on that one?

>>33654247
Wasn't that to trick Hitler into allowing the project to exist?

>>33652007
The only correct answer to this thread

>>33657352
-Ugly
-Parts weren't interchangable at first
-UGLY
At least the full wooden stock version doesn't look hideous.

>>33663268
I feel like you're missing the part where it was unreliable as shit.

File: we just dont know.jpg (81KB, 1000x667px) Image search: [Google]

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>>33662252

>>33663292
The Lyman rear sight seemed pretty good on the M1928. Had a flip-up ladder for up to 600yd (550m) volley fire.

>>33662269
Orița M1941

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>>33662596
That's because it's 1980s awesomeness that doesn't fit great with this thread.
With 1986 aimpoint now

>>33662647
He showed you his proof and you have stated your theory, now you can either go and procure an owen to test it or you can shut up.

>>33650798
it was actually the PPSh-41. commit sudoku for this shamefur dispray

>>33663856
He showed me some 1940's propaganda video. And i stated what has been true with almost every single other gun that has an exposed ejection port.

>>33662593
Come on, don't be this naive.

>>33652034
And oh my fuck, is it heavy aswell.

File: 36th_waffen_grenadier_division_by_erica1940-danslh8.jpg (136KB, 752x1063px) Image search: [Google]

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>>33651731
I understand why the grease gun is better but it's aesthetics are sub par
Personally I prefer pic related

>>33664888
It's pretty much common knowledge that the Germans had the best aesthetics of the war.

>>33662640
>>33662609
A more accurate thing to say would be that film reels were short back then and continuous shots were expensive.

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>>33664888
>but it's aesthetics are sub par

>>33663044

No, Hitler wanted it to be called sturmgewehr instead because it's more edgy.

>>33664304
Unless you have a newer test than his "propaganda" stands as the only test, he also listed the things that would help with debris just as you listed its drawbacks.

>>33665205
m8 they didn't call it the "grease gun" for nothing.

>>33665219
And now we're stuck with "assault rifle" being edgy and scaring noguns into supporting "assault weapon" bans. Thanks a lot Hitler, you jew bastard!

>>33654194
>that garand swimming in slav/chink shit screaming
>'h-help me'

>>33665579
kek

>>33661951
>I have opinions