Drill of the Month /DOTM/

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>>33646111
Here's the printable target.
>for those with access to only 50 foot ranges use the target B-2 for slow fire and B-3 for the 15 and 10 second strings
I will attempt to find a properly scaled version of those.

This works with standard printer/copy paper and is scaled accordingly.

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Gonna try and do this tomorrow morning with the USP45 and M&P9. I feel like it's almost cheating with the 22/45.

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>>33646128
Current "open division" leader is ((me)) with a 300/28x, shot with my Contender.

Yes I had to modify the rules because it's a single-shot pistol, hence the "open division"
>namefagging for this thread only

>>33646148
Rimfire is welcome also.

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>>33646164
Not sure who all's winning the "regular" division atm. I know the A/K/ crew has been posting some awesome targets.

I'm at 294/??x with my bullseye 1911, and really should've used a target backer.
>yes these are cherry-picked targets

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>>33646183
Here's some AKanon's target from an earlier thread.

Keep up the good work!

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>>33646164
I'll probably do it with all 3 then.

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Thanks for keeping the dream alive guys!!!

It's worth noting the council has come to an agreement that you can post UNLIMITED attempts, you are not limited to 3, fill up our thread with content folks!

Pic is my current personal best, I've been waiting all week to try again, not sure what's going to happen but it will be FUN.

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>>33647353

Also I can finally devote my attention to this 100%, as I was able to pull off a run of the Tactical Conference 2017 Pistol Course of Fire with no dropped shots.

You guys want to see the WebMs of the shooting or am I pushing it?

>>33647379
I wouldn't mind seeing it. Good job on your course.

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>>33647467
Good deal! pumped to share honestly.

>String 1 - 5 yards - Draw and fire 3 rds to the body on T1, then fire 3 rds on the body to T2, then 1 head shot on T1 and 1 head shot on T2.

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>>33647559
>String 2 - 5 yards - Draw and fire 3 rds on T1, dominant hand only, switch the gun to the non-dominant hand, and fire 3 rds on T2, non-dominant hand only.

Sorry about the glare it goes away after this string.

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>>33647573
>String 3 - 7 yards - Begin at Ready, with only 4 rds in the gun. Fire 4 rds on T1, conduct an empty gun reload, and fire 4 rds on T2. *Shooter may transition to a BUG instead of reloading, his choice.

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>>33647583
>String 4 - 15 yards - Draw and fire 3 rds to T1, drop to a Kneeling Position, and fire 3 rds at T2.

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>>33647601
and FIN

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>>33647643
Great job.

>>33647696

thx m8, looking forward to your FBI bull scores, also
>TLR-1 WML
Yeah, I like you

Watch out, there's some guys up in here who shoot the dicks off of bees for fun

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>>33647764
Straight 4evr.
Don't expect a whole lot out of me. I'm out of practice, but I've needed a more goal oriented shooting regimen, so this'll be fun.

>but I've needed a more goal oriented shooting regimen, so this'll be fun.

That's our motivation honestly. It's so hard to work against just your personal numbers all the time and maintain enthusiasm, check and balance against a pool of fellow enthusiasts and all of a sudden shit is less of a chore and more of a thrill. We figured we would put the friend simulator to work and sneak in some didactic practices where we could.

Also we want to get nu /k/ into more range time, and a touch less blatant venomous aggression in posts and sharing, there's a stark disparity from 5-8 years ago, but I digress....

Nice ar, you should shoot it on the drill in the open division, some tripguy did so already and set the bar with some space for improvement.

>>33648228
Seconding shooting the AR.

One of my local tacticool matches has a timed stage with a very short window where you're shooting at a small scored target at extreme close range (IIRC it's a full 30rd mag in 10 seconds at 10 yards). Everyone forgets they'll be hitting 1.5-2" low from even a 50yd zero and the average score is like a 110/300 because of it.

That stage alone took me from last or close to it to 4th in one match because I rememberd my POI at that range from the previous match. Pretty much erased both my procedurals from earlier.

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>>33648228
I bet it was giddy. I saw him in here the other day. Would it be at the same ranges?

>>33648453
You guess correct, and yes same ranges.

We've settled on a very simple "open" and "stock" division for the DOTM anything outside the spirit of the original intent is placed in open, it's a free for all. (there was talk of a "limited" catagory but I think we are better served keeping it simple, it's all for fun, learning and a bit of friendly dick waving anyways)

He shot well, he had precision but his POA/POI left some room, bretty sure he'll be back for the weekend as he actually invested in real B8 repair centers unlike us cheapskates

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>>33646111
USP anon here

>Dear G43 owners
>Suck
>My
>Dick

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>>33648550
Sikk

>>33648550
jesus christ that's borderline pornographic

fuckin nasty dude, imma scared kek

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>>33648550
I joke, the G43 is a fine gun.

>Took a swing with my target revolver
>Plagued by light primer strikes and a DA trigger that was sticking half way through pull
A series of unfortunate events...

>>33648738
>that one outside the black

Autism is officially triggered, burn the target and flail yourself 30 times (1 per round)

>>33648674
>All that kydex
Sikk indeed

>>33648701
Thanks m8, to be fair, I got her set up for 100yd shooting. And that trigger is absolutely choice.

>>33648762
That's how I felt, I need to tear down the Dan Wesson and polish it up, I don't know what was causing the DA issues or the light primer strikes, it's a bone stock gun.

>Just say no to coil springs kids

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>>33646650
>USP with UTL
My negro amigo

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>60% chance of storms tomorrow

Well shit. I don't mind shooting in the rain but I won't be able to keep my paper targets from melting on me.

>>33649087
Where to buy a good set of Arkansas stones for trigger / polishing work?

>>33650722
Spray your target with water repellent? Staple a rubbermade tote to the top of the stand as a roof?

If I can't print these targets out, are just plain black and white targets from was mart Okay?

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>>33651906
You could do that anon. Approximate measurements of the circles on the B8's were using:

10X = 1.75"
10 = 3.5"
9 = 5.75"
8 = 8.15"
7 = 12"

Hope this helps and shoot well.

>>33652000
Alright. I just grabbed some 12" bullseye targets. They're marked off similarly to the OP

>>33652066
Should be okay anon. Be sure to post your results and feel free to ask questions.

Going to shoot this today with my Glock.

OP, this link has a couple of good options for next month's drill (scroll to the bottom):
https://www.growingupguns.com/2017/03/23/range-master-conference-2017-bolkedobbs-what-really-matters/

No target pictures but I shot three on Thursday. 255 with my XDm, 245 with my CZ, 247 with my XDm. It's rare I shoot at 25 yards so this was a pretty good eye opener.

>>33650755
Brownell's

>>33652102
>It's rare I shoot at 25 yards so this was a pretty good eye opener.

That has been the consensus for most anons who participate. Those are good scores m8. Keep up the good work and post those targets.

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>>33652114
That was my first though.

But why the fuck does it cost $50 for sticks made from rock? REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

This kit might be better, but it's still $50
https://www.borideabrasives.com/publicstore/product/Gunsmithing-Kits,154,288.aspx

>>33652149
http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=13

He has both Arkansas and India. I also use his EZ Laps for sear cutting, but they're pretty coarse.

>>33652181
I'll probably just bite the bullet and purchase the kit I linked too, but the info is appreciated.

>>33650722

put a clear plastic bag over them and rotate it if it gets too shot up.

>>33652000
really cool of you to provide the measurements.

>>33652102
Nice shootin, bring your phone next time and snap some pics!

>>33650722
good to see you are back for more, we believe in you!

>>33651487
>>33652280
We'll see. I may just use the day to work on my accuracy. We have a bunch of bowling pins that haven't been shot yet.

>>33652405
Thanks. I have been working on my trigger pull and stance all week.

>>33652548
>I have been working on my trigger pull and stance all week.

mah nigga

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I did this twice with the USP45 and this was my best. 296. I couldn't find one shot so i just counted it as a 7. I measured off the distances on the previous target and the ring is 3" and the edge of the triangle on the red lines makes 3.5" in case anyone wanted to know.

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>>33653968
Also with the M&P
Miscalculated the score the first time because I didn't measure the rings. I shot another round with the M&P later and scored worse. The wind got hellacious and started making me sway a lot.

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>>33654055
And then my dogshit attempt with my AR.

>>33654125
>nutshots
Well, assuming he survived the 28 to the chest he's definitely out of the fight

>>33654374
Those two little dudes were from whoever had shot it before me, but yes. Two 9mm to the fungus following 30 223 is just wishful thinking.

>>33653968
>>33654920

But maybe you just one holed a shot? It seems more likely than going off the paper

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I shot this twice today attempting to top my PB of 285, no luck, no love and no mercy for me.

Shot a 270 & a 277, I didn't bother with photos.

Put up a 50 yard group I was happy with, not sure why I was so diminished at the 25.

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>>33654996
def feeling the effect of trying to be good at bullseye shooting and practical shooting simultaneously, it doesn't jive with me. The more I focus on one, the weaker I become at the other.

Bright side is almost all the excessive waste movement is out of my draw/reload

>>33654926
Maybe, but i didn't want to artificially inflate my score.

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>>33655148

had 3 rounds left and autism demanded I expend them before going home, did a F2S at 7 yards, not something on the drill rotation, but it went smooth so it's a PB and a new score to top.

/blog

Looking forward to anon's scores, seems like we are only attracting expert level bullseye shooters at this point (excluding me), would love to see more participation from the whole demographic spread of /k/

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>>33655274
are you going to print out some repair centers and give it another whack? I'd love to see the printing pattern on a familiar template, really helps me appreciate it more.

>>33655274
Maybe the shoot and see was a bad choice then too.

Excellent shooting though.

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266/300

G17 Gen 4

.125" front/.156" rear

124gr XTreme Plated/4.6gr Win231/1.14 OAL/Win SPP primers/Mixed brass

Notes:
I fired this cold. This is the first time I've shot at 25 in about two months. Four of my non-black hits were at 25.

This is the first time I've fired these loads for group at 25. After the first 5 round string, I noticed the group trending left (3 dropped shots). I held right and the remainder were more centered at 25.

Dropped a few rounds on the rapid fire because I didn't slow down enough (shot at .3-.4 splits). That's me not gaming the course.

All in all, not as bad as it could be for on-demand performance. Obviously it could be better.

>>33655838
>I fired this cold. This is the first time I've shot at 25 in about two months. Four of my non-black hits were at 25.

This is insanely good shooting given the context,

>Dropped a few rounds on the rapid fire because I didn't slow down enough (shot at .3-.4 splits). That's me not gaming the course.

wew lad, and I thought I rushed the "timed" and "rapid" stages... You are burning rubber

Excellent shooting anon, I hope you give it another go or two and show us what you can do at practiced and peak performance,.

>>33655884

I was happy with it. I feel like I could do a bit better with more practice and better ammo.

I shot it with my carry gun. I was concerned by the left rounds, so I shot ten rounds with my carry ammo (124gr+P Gold Dots - zero'd the sights with that). All in the black, so I'm almost positive it's my reloads printing a bit left. I'm not too concerned -- my reloads are loaded for power factor, not accuracy. I just wanted a 130+ PF load for practice. This load makes it (~1090FPS) with room to spare.

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been nearly 2 years since last range day

3" target
10 yards
115 WWB ammo
SW9VE

I'm ok with this, considering

>>33655958
I hope you farm/practice and post some more, not that gun brands matter much in this, but you are the first glock guy with threatening potential.

>tfw hit your skill ceiling and realize you won't place at the top of the list for this DOTM

feels ok man, glad to see at least a couple dozen people here shoot regularly and well.

>>33655974
Suspect as shit TBQH mr. ruseman

>>33655992

I'll be shooting it again tomorrow. I'm staying with relatives with land for the weekend.

>>33656005
what's suspect? this was just at 10 yards, only posted my best string of the day, and wasn't doing OP's drill.

I've put ~15k rounds through my Sigma, light modifications (Apex fix, 86'd pigtail spring, etc), and wouldn't lie to /k/ about this.

>>33656126

Ok if yes that was your best of the day it makes sense.

The way you initially worded the post it seemed like you were implying you walked out cold from a 2 year break with a gun with a notoriously difficult to tame trigger and shot that group ezpz.

You follow up post has certainly made it more credible, sorry for the accusation but dang, context helps.

That said, excellent shooting, I'd love to see what you could do with our little drill here!

>>33656005

It's a 3" target at 10 yards.

Many of us are consistently hitting inside 4" at 25 yards. Nothing suspect about his group whatsoever.

Practice more, criticize less my man.

>>33656244

I'm totally cool with the distance and group size, 3" at 25 yards is my personal "dun good" zone, it was more the stock SVD9 and 2 years of not shooting that was suspect.

>>33656244
>>33656274
fuck I meant 4" not 3", literally I cap out at 4" groups at 25

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>25 yards
>On a piece of letter paper

Can anyone recommend any drills for shrinking groups? I have difficulty keeping everything on paper (12" square) from ~7 yards. My current goal is to be able to stay inside a USPSA A-zone at roughly 1 shot a second.

-RIA MS Tac
-Budget .45 ammo
-Poor college student that also can't go shooting that often due to engineering degree schedule

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>>33655318
I'll do it again the next time I go out. Probably won't shoot again for another week or two, though. I plan on picking up a CZ scorpion in the next week or so, though. I think that'd be something fun to work into the rotation.

>>33655331
And thanks. I've never really tried anything this goal oriented. It's usually just target shooting/drilling without any sort of timer in place. Was honestly surprised I did worse with the M&P. I've got about 2000 rounds at least through it, and I felt like I would've done better. But yes, the shoot and see sucked, but it was all o could get on short notice.

My second M&P shoot. I didn't score it because I'm pretty sure it's worse.

>>33656360
> Was honestly surprised I did worse with the M&P

Are you aware that your USP score is (tentatively since non target) scoreboard leading and frustrating high? Because it is. The disparity between your performance with both guns is stark to say the least, I'm curious what trigger characteristics effected your performance like it did.

>>33656395
affected*

>>33656358
Lefty?

B
A
L
L

& D U M M Y

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>>33656358
Focus on your front sight through your trigger pull. Groups will tighten up.

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>>33656395
Well the USP tactical has the match trigger in it, so it's a lot more manageable than the stock M&P trigger. It's a much more crisp single action trigger, and it doesn't recoil very much for a full size polymer 45. I'll attribute it to that. I also need to get a proper holster and mag carrier for the USP.

I didn't realize I scored that high. I'll try to shoot it again on the proper target to make the score official next time.

Was shot with perfecta .45 brass case, btw, if that's of any importance.

>>33656194
no worries, believe me, my first mag was shamefur.

this one came around after about my 7th @ 16 per mag, then started losing concentration due to lack of practice.

I've smoothed and lightened the trigger to the best of my abilities and actual materials would allow. It ain't smooth for sure, but damn sight better than a NIB would do - grinding, gritty and heavy.

I'm really pissed that I forgot to bring the .22 conversion slide for my Witness - I'm actually pretty solid with it, and calls of BS would be justified (smiley face @ 15 yards/fairly quick tempo)

>>33656417
Right handed, right eye dominant, but it wasn't always like that. I started out shooting lefty, but after getting glasses my right eye turned out to be stronger. As a result, hand-eye coordination is pretty fucked.

>>33656446
So what you're both saying is I need to fix my trigger pull before worrying about anything else.

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>>33653968
>Shoot a few good scores
>Feeling good
>See shit like this
>So fucking done.

>>33656644
I hear ya bro, let's get fucking mad and drunk together aye?

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Here's a B2. 8.5 x 11 at 200 dpi.

>>33656664
>On a 24 hour shift between my two jobs
I can't even get drunk about it! I need to step back because I'm getting pissed over stupid shit like USPT dude up there scoring an unofficial target as nearly perfect.

>>33656644
I'm sorry. If it's any consolation >>33656463 is half the reason I shot so well.

Did you post your target already?

>>33656709
I'll re shoot it when I get a chance to print off a target. But to be fair, I measured off according to the measurements provided by the dude here when I tallied it up >>33652000

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And here's a B3. Same image size as >>33656690

>>33656737
I'm not mad because I think you're cheating, I'm mad because you beat me.

>Questioning your ability to measure a target and distance to the target is a result of me being mad and looking for an out

>>33656722
>>Did you post your target already?

The guy you are questioning has posted a shit ton of good scores for weeks straight, like really good scores with a ton of different gats, you edged him out

>>33656737
Not that you are required to - because contributing alone is the greatest thing you can do, but we'd love to see it on a B8 for posterity and our FRIENDLY end of month scoring

I think right now your tentative score is tied with our local wizard with his custom 1911

>>33656809
Neat. I just wondered which one was his. I'm used to ARG where everyone trips/namefags constantly. As annoying as it is, it makes identifying who's posting easy. Didn't mean to make it sound like I was questioning him.
>>33656803
Didn't even think you were mad, amigo. All is well. I didn't expect my scores to be accepted as canon anywho.

>>33656809
>you edged him out
It's not so much that he beat me, it's that he beat me with a USP45.

Sorry for sperging out, it's been a long (sober) day, and firearms in one place where I'm seriously competitive.

>>33656722
You shot like a fucking champ, my USP45 has an 8.5lb trigger which doesn't help. Target is here >>33650664


Have you seen my 16+1 USP45 mag mod? Could be useful to you

>>33656902
8.5 in SA? wtf did you do to it?

>>33656928
Heavy trigger terurn spring, the flat steel one that was wound into a coil. And a heavy~ish hammer spring.

It's my carry gun, it's tuned for shooting hard primer .45 Super while pumped full of adrenaline and reliable ignition and no NDs is more important than light trigger pull.

>>33656982
Interdasting, I'll stick with my V1 LEM though kek.

Hope your shifts go well, don't get too down on yourself, if I'm IDing right you shot a 290 with a fucking subcompact yesterday... That's a benchmark in this DOTM

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>>33656809
Neat. I just wondered which one was his. I'm used to ARG where everyone trips/namefags constantly. As annoying as it is, it makes identifying who's posting easy. Didn't mean to make it sound like I was questioning him.
>>33656803
Didn't even think you were mad, amigo. All is well. I didn't expect my scores to be accepted as canon anywho.
>>33656902
It's a USP45T if that makes a difference. Match trigger and all that.
And tell me about the mag mod. Sounds cool.

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>>33657118
>don't get too down on yourself, if I'm IDing right
Yeah, that was me with the Shield. Thanks work will probably go fine, just been a shit day up until now and falling further down the scoreboard didn't help.

>>33657185
I'm not really mad, just frustrated I'm not doing better, I should have cleared a perfect 300 by now.

>>33648550
>>33648738
>>33650664
And pic related are me,I also shot a 237 with a Remington 1858

>Here is the mag mod, lets you carry 17 rounds of .45 in your USP

>http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/341146-usp45-full-size-magazine-extension-para-p14-15-1-warning-picture-heavy.html

>>33657435
you are spreading yourself so thin, gotta farm one platform that you feel the strongest with.

I wish I still owned some CZs because I could cheat a score with them for this qualifier.

>>33657484
>Sticking with one platform
Don't have the ammo to stick with the automatics, but I can't just run the revolvers because it's not what I carry (well, I've got my 2" .38 revolver on me but that's because I'm at work)

>Farming
Every target you see is the target for that day, I've only thrown out two targets and they were from the first thread. I don't have the ammo to farm either lol

I'll grab a few boxes of 9mm some time and really try hard with my CZ clone.

>>33657435
That mag mod is sick. I may have to try it. I think a USP45T with 15 round mags and a red dot would be kind of a cool jab at FNX45 users. Although it's be a ton cheaper to just buy the dang FNX.
And good job on your targets.

>>33657595
It would be cheaper, but you get what you pay for.

FNX might have all the features but the company considers them past lifespan at 15k rounds. (as in a junk gun)

Mind you I recently contacted HK - at 15k rounds is when they recommended returning the gun for wear and tear service.

A pretty stark contrast

>>33656690
>>33656766
Thanks a bunch, you rock!

>>33657616
Yeah. One of the guys on ARG has one and said when he contacted the FNX rep about his gun shitting the bed after 3-4000 rounds, the rep suggested buying a new gun because it was probably bricked.
I've been trying hard to decide between getting a CZ scorpion or starting on getting a suppressor for the USP and tricking it out.

>>33657595
Thanks, and with the modified follower it's actually got one more round than the FN lol. So far it's running 100% which is pretty cool.
And the USP45 is a better gun in almost every way to the FNX45

>>33657647
Sounds like somebody trying to parrot my actual account, it wasn't that low round count, it was about 16k live rounds, but yes, they literally told me to fuck the repair and buy a new gun ( I was sending it in because of a catastrophic failure)

>>33657663
I'll have to give that a try. Are you using HK mags or the Promag ones? Also, what do all the extra parts wind up costing you?

>>33657683
That's nuts. Did they offer a replacement or repair, or just an apology?

>>33657701
>That's nuts. Did they offer a replacement or repair, or just an apology?

It's a very long and shitty story, seeing as how previously I owned (4) different FNS guns and a FiveseveN

No, they wanted to charge me $370 fucking dollars to replace the entire slide, while also telling me I should just not do that and junk the whole gun because "I would continue to experience failures" with the existing frame.

>>33657701
Using HK mags, but I have a ProMag and it works with them as well

>HK brand mag
$35
>Arredondo Accessories base pad
$20
>STI 170mm spring
$13
>Custom cut metal base pad retainer
Free from scrap sheet metal on my workbench

>>33657743
That's plain shitty. Part of why I got the HK was the fact that their bomb proof and last a million rounds.

>>33657746
Rad. Thanks for the info.

>>33657839
Yeah totally unacceptable lifespan for people who shoot. They were not just unapologetic but completely in denial of the reality of the lifespan of their "glock killer" gun.

I have two of 5 left to sell, the 5.7 and the FNS-9c

im banned wat? test

>>33657912
How much are you selling the 5-7 for?

>>33658207

I have it listed starting at $1,000

It has like 300 rounds through it, I've had it for 12 years, it's been a table talk piece.

Original hard case and paperwork are gone but you get the (same) case for a FNS-40L with it and ~300 blue tip target ammo

Will only transfer to a FFL and you pay $25 for that

>>33657839
>Rad. Thanks for the info.
No problem, let me know if it works out for you!

Loading up some ammo to give this another go tomorrow.

>>33659235
What load are you cooking up?

>>33646111
This is actually one of my favorite things I've seen on /k/ in a while.

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>>33659735
More of the same. 158 grain and Accurate #5 trying the S&B primers this time.
>>33659791
It should be. ACTUAL SHOOTING, reloading and coaching happening in this thread.

>>33660651
>trying the S&B primers this time.
Bad ass, I'd like to go tomorrow but I get off work at 8am and have to be back at 4pm and I've already been here for 16 hours.

>What the hell do you do that you have so much free time?!

>>33660651
I hope your S&B primers treat you well, I've not had good luck with them and Alliant powders. Currently working through 250k Wolf-imported SK primers.

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>>33661030
The load was excellent with cci primers. I hope it works with S&B... I loaded 200 rounds of it this evening... Frankly, I'm just happy to be able to purchase reloading supplies again. Lots of stuff was scarce up here for a long time.

>>33661006
>What the hell do you do
I owned a business. Got really stressed out. Sold it and took some time off. Been looking for work again recently, but trying to find something that is a better fit for me.

>>33656358
Dry fire, dry fire, dry fire. It helps everything, and is free except for your time.

>>33661298
>I owned a business
Anything /k/ related? Good to hear you made a move for a more relaxed life, stress kills

>Scarse reloading components
That was a nightmare

>>33659791
fuck yes anon, we are carrying the fire.

>>33660651
lovely scenery m8

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europoors are not allow to kill the thread

>>33662493
Eh, it happens, maybe someone will hit tge rabge today and bump with content.

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>>33663273
I went out this morning, trying to beat my 284 & 285 PB's. I think I've hit my skill ceiling unfortunately.

Going back out now with 200 more rounds because Autism and no life allows me to. I will earn a fluke 290 eventually if I farm enough.

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>>33661617
>Anything /k/ related?
No, but one day I'll finally send in that FFL application.

>>33661701
lovely scenery m8
A/K/ thanks you. Have a bird of prey my friend.

>>33663273
SOON

>>33655992

About to go do a re-shoot or two, along with this:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5515-Week-47-DB-Modified-LAPD-SWAT-Qual

That qual is my bread and butter. I shoot that almost every time I go out. Highly recommended.

>>33663668
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5515-Week-47-DB-Modified-LAPD-SWAT-Qual

>open this up
>see 4th post down
>oh look, he's using printer B8's like we are
>pistol was a Hi-Point C9 9mm pistol

kek

It looks like a neat drill. I still need a shot timer though.

>>33663846
Honestly surprised he did as well as he did with the C9. It's kinda funny.

>>33663870
Their sights aren't terrible and being a blowback gun they have the potential to be quite accurate.

>>33664001
I would tend to agree with this. That fixed barrel should be good for something.

One day I'll get bored and buy one just to see what they're all about. I'm not spending more than $100 though.

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>>33663846

Rain came so I only got one reshoot in.

Score is 278/300. 17x10; 5x9; 7x8; 1x7. G17 Gen4, 10-8 .115"/.140" fiber front/black rear, stock trigger/internals.

Notes:
Took more advantage of the time this run. At 25, that lead to a called miss high because I pulled through despite not feeling it; 4 went left into the 8 ring, 3 left into the 9, and 2 landed in the 10.

Timed fire at 15 was shot at 1s splits. Results: 8 in 10, 2 in 9.

Rapid fire I shot at .5s splits. Ended up sending three high into the 8 ring. Remainder went into the 10.

Warmup was Dot Torture at 5yds (48/50 - snatched two shots on the draw).

>>33664521
Good score. You remind me I really need to get some new sights on my guns.

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>>33663504
Part 2, used PEDs this time. (2 pints of bud light to smooth me out, calm my mind and make me less sensitive to recoil/sound)

>>33664521
I get the impression that you are naturally a much stronger shooter than me.

A bit frustrating how much hidden talent is here, seems like there's only two camps on /k/, a loud majority of casuals/noguns and a silent minority of ferocious shooters.

So I know we have casually discussed running additional drills through the month, particularly ones that are less restrictive and more "practical" (holster work, controlled pairs, movement etc)

Well what if for next month we do drill(s) of the month, and formally introduce a SxS "dynamic" drill in to the mix?

Given the unique posters we are holding on to, I don't think it would overly clutter the thread or really impact the participation in the "main" drill.


>>33663846

So we tentatively agreed that dot torture is next month, but FUCK this one is perfect, definitely has my vote for getting in the rotation, excellent share p-f bro

>>33664957

Most of my practice is 10 yards and in, with the bulk of it at <5. I'm practicing for a car length fight that's going to last about 3 seconds tops. I want fast hits to the important bits, and my targets are: a) the B8 black (body); b) a 4x6 index card or half-USPSA A Zone (body); c) a 3x5 credit card (headshots). I'm working for 100% accountability on those targets, within my time constraints (3s for 7yds, 2.5 for 5yds, 2s for 3yds).

My performance in this thread is honestly much better than I expected. I am NOT a bullseye shooter or otherwise focused on groups/shooting for score beyond what I described above. The most 25yd shooting I do on a regular basis is two rounds to the body from the holster in 4s, or one headshot in the same time frame.

>>33665028

I'm definitely down with Dot Torture. That's another staple for me. For those of you with DA/SA guns, be aware that there's a version for that (slight changes to encourage you to fire with the double-single transition). It's also more accessible for a lot of people because it doesn't require a timer. Search TDA Dot Torture and it's easily found.

Having said all of that, the DB SWAT qual is obviously a favorite. That's DocGKR's mod to it. Bolke/Dobbs suggest the same strings and time limits, except shot from the low ready for beginners. I'll have to see where I can dig that up. "Qual A" here is yet another variation: https://www.growingupguns.com/2017/03/23/range-master-conference-2017-bolkedobbs-what-really-matters/

>>33665128
I'm definitely practical shooting focused too, I've deviated quite a bit from my normal habits to keep participating here in DOTM, I'm just impressed how well you are scoring with minimal investment in it.

p-f 4lyfe

More musings on Dot Torture:

- There are no time limits in the drill. However, the value is wasted if you sit there at whatever range you select, take all the time in the world, and guarantee 100% hits. People are definitely going to game it, but they should be encouraged to be honest with themselves.
- If you cannot shoot from a holster, choose between either low or high ready in order to get value from those stages.
- You should start at three yards if you haven't shot this before. The drill is deceptively hard. In fact, I'd suggest not moving past three yards until you can consistently clean the drill at that range (or at least in the high 40s - >48 on the reg). If you can't clean it at 3, the wheels will fall off at 5. Prepare for some disappointment.
- For "winners," I'd suggest recognizing the best of at 3yds, 5yds, and 7yds. However, especially at 3yds, it's very likely that several people will end up with 50/50s.
- The drill is intended to be shot cold. Don't cheat yourself with a warmup. It's an assessment of where you're at re: on-demand performance at a wide variety of important defensive tasks. You're practicing draws, multiple target engagements, strong-hand and weak-hand shooting, and reloads -- all with just 50 rounds. This is yet another reason you shouldn't cheat yourself on the time.

>>33665487
I'll give it a shot next time I hit the range. I really need a holster for the USP45T to make these drills count.

>>33665539

http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/TDA-Dot-Torture-target.pdf

There's the TDA target if you've got a DA/SA USP.

For now, shoot from whichever ready position you prefer. I prefer high ready for ranges where drawing isn't allowed, simply because it's more translatable to my drawstroke. However, my default ready position is low ready and I'll practice from that as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OZfgutNufU

Start at position three of that drawstroke. Practice working the DA pull as you press the gun out to four.

>>33665487

This will definitely be pretty gamed I'd imagine, I mean friendly dick waving is part of the appeal of DOTM. While technical skill improvement is the didactic intent - we are really just trying to be a catalyst to get /k/ off the couch.

Fuck I know I'm gonna game the shit out of it.

Shot it a few times before and yeah, at 5 yards it's pretty freaking stressful, never even tried at 7.

>>33665605

I'd put something like that as a greentext reminder.

I'm not going to get fucked up about it if people game it. Shit, by my standards I "gamed" this DOTM + the PF DOTW version of it with my second run. Some dude upthread shot a 28x run with a fucking TC single shot, you've probably done this a dozen times by now, etc. etc. etc. I'm really just suggesting a reminder that there's value beyond mere dick waving.

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>>33665764
>you've probably done this a dozen times by now, etc.
HOLY FUCK GET OUTTA MY HEAD

Sad part is I've capped out my potential, scores are flatlined at this point, no progress and I lack the funds/commitment to really make any advancements at this point.

>I'd put something like that as a greentext reminder.

That's a good call, I agree

>I'm not going to get fucked up about it if people game it.

I get it, we are on the same page, it's not really a counter point, but I just think we always need to emphasize fun, inclusion and CASUAL friendly comp. If we get too rigid or serious, we will drive off potential contributors and there will be 10 of us left.

>>33665882

Yup. I wouldn't say there should be a rule against gaming (i.e. allow as many runs as the shooter wants). I'd just point out that, to get the most value out of it, it should be the first thing they shoot that day.

>>33665927
>it should be the first thing they shoot that day.

Only thing I would contest is it should be cold if that's the design intent. I mean I'm not super familiar with the FBI but I imagine you get to warm up before doing their bull qualifier.

That said things like the F.A.S.T and dot torture? Absolutely emphasis on shooting cold, following the spirit of the design intent.

I think that's the simplest way to put it: We encourage participation in the drill in the spirit of the design intent.

Some fancy pants can come along and clean up my wording if they would like kek.

p.s. accept my friend req you dicknuts

>>33665986

I have no idea what the FBI does with their bullseye course. I shot the first one cold because I was curious. Literally everything I've practiced over the past few months has been some variation of:
a) Draw and fire 2B1H;
b) From the low-ready, fire 2B1H;
c) Repeat the above with 4B2H;
d) Repeat the above while taking a sidestep left/right; and
e) Repeat the above entirely on the move;
f) Make shots from retention/2 and while backing up at the 3.
g) Work the B8 SHO/WHO.

> We encourage participation in the drill in the spirit of the design intent.

"The goal of DOTM is to have fun and get people shooting. With that in mind, shoot this as much as you'd like and share your results. However, some of the drills we post have a certain spirit to them. We encourage you to keep to the intent of the drill, as that will provide you with the most information about your level of skill and thus provide an accurate baseline upon which to improve."

If the spirit of the drill is known, perhaps a little blurb about it would be appropriate.

>p.s. accept my friend req you dicknuts

Look closer.

>>33666112
Looks like you have a very encompassing training session, I ordered 100 of these targets like 4 days ago - gonna work it for a bit and see if it jives.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97v3JoMhjkg

Saved the pasta for continued use down the line btw.

>Look closer.

noice m8

I know lucas is a fagit but this shit looks fun, gonna run it for sure.


https://www.baersolutionsllc.com/page3/

>All this talk about shooting for speed at muzzle distance over precision shooting

Both, the answer is both, don't be that guy shooting at 3 yards all day.

>>33668868

My normal targets are a 5.5" circle (NRA B8 black) and a 3x5" index card. There's a fair amount of precision involved, given the speed.

But yeah, slow fire accuracy is neither my focus nor my strong suit.

>>33669234
You should try some long distance (50yd) shooting, and try an 8x11" blank sheet of paper at 25yds with the same time constraints as your 3yd targets.

>>33669656
not that dude but the guy you are chastising shot a 266 cold and followed up with a 278 a day or so after.

So while I think we should encourage bulllseye accuracy, you are out of line here.

>>33669742
>chastising
What? I'm just suggesting variations in training to get outside the comfort zone, when was I rude or condescending?

He's obviously a good shooter, he should try to push even further

>>33669802
I'm a fuckhead, ineffectual articulation

You input is worthwhile and valid, carry on folks.

>>33670040
Hey now, don't be too hard on yourself, can't we all just get together and agree that we all hate communists and that makes us friends?

>>33670330
Well, no one hates communists more than me.

>>33670353
Do you own an M1 and jump boots?

>>33670330
>>33670353

kek yes keep it simple.

didactic shooting + light philosophy

Errrrrg dichotic western politics is shit and we should avoid it

>>33669802

I'd like to, honestly.

The problem is time. I just moved to a new city, started a pretty different job than what I was doing previously, and due to my field have a lot on my plate -- before I even start on a personal life. So I'm in maintenance mode.

My priority is being able to shoot some dude in the face in the parking lot or in my home before I get killed or seriously injured, and thus my limited practice time goes to maintaining that skill set. I am reasonably confident I can make torso hits at extended ranges, but that's going to have to do for now -- at least until I get more stability. For now, I won't be taking 30yd headshots on the suicide bomber at the mall.

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>>33671164
>For now, I won't be taking 30yd headshots on the suicide bomber at the mall.

turn in your guns, they're gonna get you kilt in the streetz

>>33671164
>I won't be taking 30yd headshots on the suicide bomber at the mall.

Fucking casuals.

(I totally understand, I'm out of almost everything but .22 myself)

>>33674848
>tfw sitting on about 2500 .45acp and over 10,000 9mm
>tfw don't have time to hit the local ranges during business hours and can't shoot on my family farm because it's fucking under water (like always this time of year)

>>33675261
If you want, I'll shoot all your ammo. Just mail it my way.

>>33675261
>10,000 9mm
gibs 9mm plox

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>>33663668
I'm gonna try this.
>mfw my range lets me sotm

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>>33663668
I'm going to sneak out at lunch with a 50 round box and give this a whack, it reads pretty challenging.

Want to do this one too.

FUCK I need more ammo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AD5ha8bSJU

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>>33663668
>>33676244

Oh snap I lied, 100 casino drill targets just showed up, def gonna have to shoot that first.

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>>33676534


MOTHER


FUCKER

I literally bought these Sunday morning.

>>33677616
Stop buying cheap pieces of shit.
>Peltor Shotgunner
>Howard Leight Impact Sport
>Walker's Razors

>>33677616
I got a set of these that work pretty well. I got them on black Friday for $50 though

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/647037/walkers-ultimate-power-muff-electronic-earmuffs-nrr-27db-black

>>33678271
I bought them because my previous pair broke that sunday at the range, it was a band aid purchase, but I expected to get more a day of use from them.

>>33679164


Exchanged them and got electronic noise cancelling muff from Champion, Shit-Marts finest. But thanks for the rec.

>>33679571
Fair enough, though the smarter thing to do would have been to just make do with foamies til you got something worth having.

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>>33679786
Probably, these seem good enough tho, 25 DB cancellation and comfy enough.

Shot the Casino Drill 3 times today, didn't make it clean under time. 3rd time I was under time (19.5) but dropped two shots, second run I had a shit reload and one dropped shot (24 something) first time I was JUST over 21 seconds with 1 dropped shot as well.

This drill reads much easier than it shoots, for me a t least. Also the waistband 2nd spare mag is annoying. While I get the intent and design advantages of this drill it seems like it requires unconventional gear set up.

FUCK this WebM was a bitch to get inside 3mb

>>33679945
I'm too lazy to look it up, what's the point of the drill?

>>33681459
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97v3JoMhjkg

>>33679945
the hole in the first target is touching the outside. Went to Tom's class and he considered those a miss so 22 seconds : ^ )

>>33679945
Great shooting but that reload looks awkward as fuck. Is that where you normally carry a spare mag? I'd think 7:30-8: would be just as concealed and a lot faster on the draw.

>>33681770
But Tom scores this pass or fail? From what I've read there's not time penalties - IE: 1 miss, you fail.

S
U
S
P
E
C
T

>>33681834

I carry 1 spare at the 10-11 O'clock, this drill forces me to stuff an additional mag in my waistband, it;'s kinda awkward, but I'm not going to invest in an additional pouch just to game a drill.

I may be wrong, but yes reloads are frustrating doing this as the waistband mag gravitates to the pouched mag and it's just a clusterfuck, sometimes I grab 1, sometimes I grab the other, sigh

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>>33681858
The goal is to make it under 21 seconds so it would be considered a fail. In his class, I scored 24 seconds with 2 misses iirc. The video where he explains it he mentions 21 seconds being the time limit.


I used an AIWB mag pouch (that I do not carry with or practice with) and had my third reload in my back pocket when I was in his class.
>team up with relay partner
>have to do casino drill and anyone who misses is knocked out
>anyone who is the slowest is knocked out
>mfw [nospoiler]we both do a pretty good and quick run but both miss on the first fucking shot[/nospoiler]

Some words of wisdom on the casino drill: make sure you slow down enough for the first shot and the last 6 is literally just a bill drill all the way through. Casino drills are fun especially when you mix up how many rounds you have in each magazine. Spice it up even further by adding snap caps inbetween.

>>33682001
ah that makes sense. I have a very low-profile double mag carrier that was originally intended to be MOLLE but I figured out works pretty fucking well using the molle straps as reversed belt loops for IWB carry. Since I carry a single-stack subcompact it's super slim and comfy, and draws with 1911-sized mags are fast as shit.

When I first got into 3-gun I had like no gear and as such usually ended up kiestering at least 1 mag, so I know the pain of them sliding where you don't want them.

>>33681858

As Tom (and most instructors) advance with a class, "suggested" times become pass/fail.

Clean up your reloads. You have a JMCK AIWB pouch. Switch to that for a while. I think part of your problem is the angle you're hitting the mag (straight up/down is awkward for AIWB mags). The JMCK pouch has a more natural angle for fast access.

You seemed to be taking plenty of time on your shots but you've still got several misses/borderline. Are you waiting for an acceptable sight picture?

I'm curious how you're turning in sub-6s FASTs while simultaneously failing to clean this <21s. Doesn't compute, unless you're relying on repeatedly doing the same thing until you get that one "good" run. If so, you REALLY need to focus more on building the technical skillset to provide repeatable, on-demand performance. An extra second or two is worth the increased accountability.

>>33646111
I like this concept, but the execution is flawed. You're asking people to use a carry gun to shoot a 6" target at 25 yards. 25 yards is completely nonsensical for SD training. People are often carrying mouseguns with 4 inch barrels FFS. 12 or 15 yards with a smaller scoring rings would be better.

You'd still get plenty of people shooting their full size guns that they've never carried though.

>>33682025

24 seconds and 2 dropped shots is better than I would do IRL with an audience (I'm the guy you are You-ing)
Still curious who the guy is suggesting a carbon ring hit somehow adds a time penalty, since this is pass/fail, can't imagine either of those are true, I probably just got TROLLED HARD

>>33682121
We are simply attempting to get the community involved in a slightly modified version of the FBI qualifier, for many, many years people shot this, granted they have the fuck huge backstop of a full B-8 - but a little added intensity is healthy!

Also it's not like if you don't ace it we rape your butt and call you a fagit, everything is meant to be accessible inclusion.

>>33682121
>25 yards is completely nonsensical for SD training.

Except it isn't. Now, I'm not saying you're going to get mugged at 25 yards or whatever but it isn't ridiculous to suggest you should be able to hit the black of a B8 at 25 on demand.

>People are often carrying mouseguns with 4 inch barrels FFS.

Then those people should man up and get a bigger gun, something they can ACTUALLY fight with and not just keep in their pocket as a talisman. Barrel length has nothing to do with accuracy. I have a PX4 Compact and I can shoot out to 50 yards at a B8 easily and it has a sub 4 inch barrel. That's how much of a fuck I don't give, I couldn't even tell you how short it is but it is definately shorter than a 4 inch Glock 19 barrel.

Single stacks for the most part suck and these drills can help open some people's eyes.

>>33682121

There are documented, justified private citizen defensive shootings that have stretched 40+ yards. There's an Air Force MP who took a 70-yard headshot on an active shooter with an M9 back in the 1990s. Never say never.

Most of the self-defense stuff does happen up close. That doesn't mean that the discipline required to hit a 5.5" black circle (or better yet, a 2" ring inside that black circle) isn't directly translatable to increased skill at close range. The targets you need to hit with a pistol are smaller than we like to pretend. Depending on who you talk to, they're fist-sized, hand-sized, or index card-sized. Fuck up the trigger work at speed and you're missing those things completely, even if you still score hits on the person you're shooting.

>>33682128
>Still curious who the guy is suggesting a carbon ring hit somehow adds a time penalty

Do you mean this post? >>33681770

That's me >>33682025

Oddly enough, on the pirate drill (link), holes touching at the edge of the circle counted as hits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhGK40XdMoE

>>33682113
>>Clean up your reloads. You have a JMCK AIWB pouch. Switch to that for a while. I think part of your problem is the angle you're hitting the mag (straight up/down is awkward for AIWB mags). The JMCK pouch has a more natural angle for fast access.

I actually prefer the KSG armory pouch, it leaves a ton more of the mag exposed for the grip, and I'm indifferent on the cant deviation.

>You seemed to be taking plenty of time on your shots but you've still got several misses/borderline. Are you waiting for an acceptable sight picture?

I'm curious how you're turning in sub-6s FASTs while simultaneously failing to clean this <21s. Doesn't compute, unless you're relying on repeatedly doing the same thing until you get that one "good" run. If so, you REALLY need to focus more on building the technical skillset to provide repeatable, on-demand performance. An extra second or two is worth the increased accountability.

So I'm really good at getting good at things I want to, but I'm terribly bad at new things. So yeah, things I repeat I accelerate at, sorry that it offends you, but that's what training is, repetition, I initially suck at everything, but autism, dedication and a touch of capability get me moving pretty quick.

I have been doing F.A.S.T.s for a couple months so it's now learned and incorporated.

I'm like a walking talking manifestation of the gamer, only time I break that mold is real life in da streetz confrontations.

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>>33682244
>I'm like a walking talking manifestation of the gamer

The casino drill must not be gamed and should be done at most 3 times a session.
>he calls himself a gamer
>he doesn't practice AIWB shirtless at the range

>>33682187
Please remember I said SD training. When you take a combat pistol class they don't give you 4 minutes to shoot at a target really really far away as slow as you want to, using a rest or not. I didn't say anything about "every conceivable SD situation".

I might give this a shot, but no way in hell I'm doing it with a glock 43. Maybe with the USP tac 45.

>>33682267
>>33682212

I? I'm so confused, the WebM is literally my first time trying it, granted I shot 3 (garbage) cold F.A.S.T.s first

I have never heard of scoring being "rounding down", if that makes sense.

Carbon ring imprints count as hits, as in, you round up when there is a dividing line.

>>33682244

What I'm getting at is this:

You're shooting various drills, all of which are designed to test a wide variety of skills in a relatively short amount of time. The FAST gives you a draw to a tight target, a follow-up shot on a tight target, a speed reload, and changing gears into a hosing section -- all sorts of good shit. The Casino drill also tests the draw and speed reloads, but in lieu of changing gears from small targets to wide open targets, instead adds a bit of decision-making.

Your posted results show what are probably your highlight reels; nobody wants to display that 32/50 3yd Dot Torture target, but everybody proudly displays the 50/50 one. By your own admission, what you're doing is playing the game and getting "good" at that game -- whether it's the FAST, this month's DOTM, or I guess now the Casino Drill -- through repetition. The concern I have is that you're relying on getting that one lucky run simply by doing it a bunch of times, rather than working the core skills within these tests and using the game to check your work. Doing it that way is going to limit you as a shooter.

>>33682291
>I might give this a shot, but no way in hell I'm doing it with a glock 43.

Try it. You should always push past your mental boundaries to see what you're really capable of. Mike Pannone said something about a 3x5 card at 14 yards being just as difficult as shooting a man sized target at 70 yards but it's a mental strain people take when they think "70 yards".

Work up from 7 to 14 yards shooting B8's and 3x5 cards and when you feel confident enough, try 10 at a B8 on 25 yards. A good set of sights assuming you have the stock Glock ones absolutely helps as well.

>>33682267
>>he doesn't practice AIWB shirtless at the range

Bru I'm literally hyper sensitive, raking my skin with my (clipped) nails interferes with my concentration, I need the undershirt armor to calm my mind.

Also I never got the advantage of flesh on flesh drag, it always seems like polymer mag to polymer frame vs steel mag to polymer frame.

>>33682291

The first "combat pistol" class I took (it was actually "tactical pistol") spent the first half of the first day devoted entirely to slow-fire marksmanship at extended ranges. Actually, the first thing they did was have us shoot the FBI Bull course in the OP. We shot it again before breaking for lunch as a check on our work.

Nobody is saying that you've got 4 minutes to make the shot IRL. What I'm saying is that the discipline required to consistently hit shit at 25 yards on a scored target translates to the ability to make that acceptable shot (let's call it the entire 8.5x11" zone for argument's sake, though I still prefer the bull as the tgt because vitals) in the 2-3 seconds you'll actually have at that range.

>>33682342
Still not sure what you are asking of me - i Shoot 1/3/5 FASTS (or 0 depending on the day) - my time is 5-6.2 seconds generally, I do drop shots often enough, I have a training journal that's pretty comprehensive on this stuff.

I'm not sure what else I can do other than post my biggest garbage days here to appease you, sorry, not going to happen, not exactly like this community thrives on that kind of transparency.

I feel that posting the content I do is fairly indicative of my current level, you are free to disagree, but I don't understand why you think I'm cherryipicking.

>>33682342
I shot 18 rounds in FATSs before running these "cold" or "blind" I am at a loss with how to be more honest about it kek.

https://youtu.be/XV3jZfvR4Tk

https://youtu.be/k4R-WDRcj6s

https://youtu.be/L3B61tm1Biw

>>33682428

I'm not fucked up about the cherrypicking. I honestly don't care, and I don't expect you to post your bad runs out of some misplaced sense that you owe strangers on the internet any honesty.

What I'm suggesting is that, maybe a more constructive use of your time would be...

...instead of running six FASTs in a row today, maybe run one cold one, then spend the rest of the range session working on a) D2 to the 3x5; b) 1R2s to the 8" circle; and c) Bill Drills on the 8" circle, focusing on 100% hits. Then before you leave, run a FAST. You'll see more improvement doing that than simply doing FASTs over and over until you get that perfect run.

...Instead of repeating the Casino Drill three times, shoot it once, then spend the next fifty rounds picking two shapes and firing the requisite number of rounds on one, then transitioning to the second shape and firing the required shots to that. To mix things up:
- tear off six pieces of paper;
- number then 1-6
- draw two from your hat;
- the first one you drew is the target you'll draw to and engage first, the second one is the target you'll transition to
- Throw a few 1R2 drills in for good measure

And so on and so forth.

Again: it's not about the cherrypicking. IDGAF about that -- sorry if it's coming across like I do. It's about learning the skills vs. learning the test.

Put another way: practicing only the test is going to net you shit results when you pick up a new test to play with; in contrast, having a solid baseline skillset will provide you with the ability to put out good results in an unfamiliar environment.

>>33682511
>I'm not fucked up about the cherrypicking. I honestly don't care
You are basically accusing of padding my scores, you might not be "fucked up" about it, but I'm not exactly picking up what you're putting down.

Thanks for the drill input, I'll work it into my already overloaded rotation.

>>33682121
>You're asking people to use a carry gun to shoot a 6" target at 25 yards.
I really wish I could physically tap you on the shoulder and point at my post, but this will have to do.
Observe, >>33648550

The problem isn't that it's impossible to do with small guns, it's that you're not a good enough shot. But you could be, you just have to work at it. Go do the drill with your carry gun man, you can only get better! We've got your back.

>>33682511
Have you considered that these drills require you do do things like reloading and drawing on the clock and he's using them as training repetitions for general skills development not just trying to edge out his personal best on the score to look better?

>Yes, they are meant to be used sparingly as a litmus test
>No, that doesn't mean you can't use them for structured training

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>Bump with an unexpectedly good rifle group
Will we ever do a rifle DOTM?

>>33684385

Yes, he's said as much.

If that's truly the case, however, shouldn't good performance on one particular drill that happens to have a lot of overlap with a second drill translate to good on-demand performance on that second drill?

>>33684434
Yes, however there are other factors, nigger rigging a way to carry a magazine for instance. Just saying, seems like he's getting shit for not shooting the 'right' way. Which is bullshit, he's not entering his times for USPSA ranking or anything.

>>33684453

That's the thing: I'm not giving him shit. I'm trying to tell him that I think he's maxing out his scores on various assessments through rote memorization (running the drill basically becomes autopilot) at the expense of his more generalized skill, thus limiting himself. I've been there and done that with the FAST before.

I got pretty damn good at drawing to the 3x5 and hammering out a pair that would both hit most (but not all) of the time. The hold was familiar, I wouldn't do follow-through on the second shot because I'm automatically pulling the gun back for the reload (i.e. autopilot shoot twice and then reload vs. truly processing "hey, my gun's empty"), hold high right on the 8" circle once the gun's working, slap the shit out of the trigger and most of the time all the rounds will stay in the circle. And hey, my time dropped from 8s to the mid-5s. On paper I've got a good generalized skillset (low prob/reload/hose high prob), but the truth is that outside of that specific drill, I end up shooting like shit. Try doing the 99 Drill and oh, I suck. That's despite the fact that on several strings, the skills used and the actions completed are exactly what you do on the FAST. The target's even the same. The range varies, and when you do certain things varies. But hey, I've got a 5.5s FAST...

>>33684516
So when you say >>33663668
is your bread and butter, and you shoot it every time you go out, how is this different?

I run cold 3 FASTs per ToddGs original design intent - that's how you get a coin, then I do whatever drills I can try to cram in with ammo limits. What's the difference? Seems like you're committing the same cardinal sin that I am.

>>33684790

The SWAT qual consists of either 2B or 2B1H strings depending on the range. Coincidentally, those are things I want ingrained as a default response to a particular shooting problem (asshole trying to kill me). The time limits are representative of the actual times I’ll have in the real world and the accuracy standards are representative of what’s required to make effective and rapid incapacitating hits on live people. Contrast this to the FAST, which nobody recommends using as a solution to a real-world shooting.

In my use, the qual is shot cold with the goal of verifying my live/dry fire practice of those skills. It’s not a situation where I’m hoping to run my 1.89 3yd 2B1H down to 1.76; rather, it’s a yes/no “did I do what I want done, in the time required?” If no, practice where I failed. If yes, move on to more technical things. Assessment/status check vs. competition game (“earning a coin”).

I don’t generally repeat the qual in a given session (if I do, it’s the first drill and the last drill). I do, however, repeat the skills required to do well on it. If I can run a good 2B1H at 5 yards, I can probably do it just fine (and a little faster) at 3yds; thus, I may only work five reps of the 5yd 2B1H and call it good for maintenance. Likewise, if I end up consistently making <2s first-round hits to the black at 25, there’s probably not much need to repeat the 10yd stage for maintenance. So, if it’s a 50rd drill and I burn an additional 25 on practicing 5 reps of the 25yd stage and 5 reps of the 5yd stage, that leaves me with plenty of rounds left over to do other stuff – whether that’s a run of the Casino Drill (which I really like – just haven’t bought those targets, so I draw smaller ones with a sharpie and shoot it at 5 instead), a few runs of the Farnham drill (which you should try – buy those cheap Glock orange dummy rounds for best results), retention shooting, etc. etc. etc.

>>33685344
Fair enough.

I guess I just don't see as much disparity of real world value in running the FASTest as designed before moving on to various dynamic drills. I like measuring my technical skills, it keeps my excited to succeed.

shot some stuff today, need to format it, bump.

>>33687284
Do you have any video you haven't posted in every thread?

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>>33689819
I haven't had much time to make new WebMs so probably not

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mosdef hit my skill ceiling, might run this one more time but kinda iffy on the why at this point. Shot this once today after doing the modified SWAT drill stuff and a Casino Drill

>>33689923
>Skill ceiling
No such thing. Go get a single shot .22 air pistol and start doing 10m bullseye. Your score will skyrocket after a month.

>>33690144
Semantics, what I'm saying is at this point I've hit the line of diminishing returns.

Hey Modified LAPD SWAT Qual anon - I shot it cold first thing today, fun and challenging, I missed 8 shots but I think I was inside the times on every string.

I had a terrible ammo malf on the movement second string, the aluminum cased stiff I was shooting - 1 expanded in the chamber cause a FTE/ Double feed, so the very last string got busted to shit.

I did film, but I did it in a wash and my butt is the start of like half the strings, it's kinda awkward.

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>>33690240

And when I say expanded in the chamber, I mean I needed to get my pocket knife out to remove it, shit sucked.

Here's the Casino Drill. Still no clean run BAKA

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Oh also here was my DOTM "warm up" at 25 yards - back to micro heeling - around and around I go.

>>33684421
You should organize it, I'm sure no one is opposed, we could use the extra traffic.

Simply put I don't really shoot longgats often so I'm not good for the role. but DO IT

If you guys want to watch footage of my butt I will post the LAPD SWAT Qual stuff, but I don't want to overstay my welcome so let me know if you want to see it, otherwise I'll just hush up.

>>33690696
butt videos nao

>>33690750
So the strings that fucked me up were definitely the cold strings at 25 yards with 4 sec par time and I think the other big dropped shot zone was the 7 yard with the transition to head shots.

Too lazy to make a million WebMs for these.....


https://youtu.be/pOJkqBSQC-U

https://youtu.be/buw_aGICNQA

https://youtu.be/afVghuL5iNU

https://youtu.be/nNh6ZDuxKXY

https://youtu.be/o8A3qrO9_90

https://youtu.be/jJRiJjRKVaE

Phone literally shut off mid recording on this string, really frustrating because I smoked it, commentary reflects that I thought I didn't record any of it vs it shutting off half way through for no fucking reason.

https://youtu.be/qCk7BBOr-Vs

Then ammo malfs came in and ruined everything

https://youtu.be/uI2CNlepIB0

Oh well gonna practice the GM drill to get comfortable with rapid timed shooting at the 25 then come and RAPE this drill (hopefully)


https://youtu.be/-BJ8Ykhg2cQ


Prepare for flat skinny white guy butt

>>33690888

Where you can improve your 25yd shots:

On your 15yd and 10yd videos, you do a full-speed draw. On the 25yd shots, you slow down on the draw. That happens to a lot of people, and it took me quite a while to break out of that habit. Draw like you would if that target was at 3yds. You'll have more time to clean up your sight picture and take the shots.

There's no need to do .5s (what it sounded like, anyway) splits on the 25 yard shots. Even with a two-second draw (you can go faster...), you've still got plenty of time -- slow down, ensure you get the hits.

>>33691064
>On your 15yd and 10yd videos, you do a full-speed draw. On the 25yd shots, you slow down on the draw. That happens to a lot of people

Honestly I kinda chalk that up 50/50 - you are right in some respects, consciously I deliberately take a slower draw further out, but those were also 3 cold draws in a row, I def slow down a bit cold.

I'll rep the failure points a bit in the future, incorporate them and run this again.

I agree it's a great, very encompassing drill, I do wish it dedicated a small portion to reloads, target transitions and SHO WHO shots though.

>>33691122

Well, consider the context: the drill came from LAPD SWAT. A pistol isn't the primary tool for them, and they're working in a situation where they have a partner (or a stack of teammates) with long guns. A speed reload probably isn't a priority.

Having said that, I've heard Bolke and Dobbs' thoughts on the matter at Rangemaster. Neither is of the opinion that a speed reload is a critical skill for a private citizen (or even LE). That three-second car-length fight is a paraphrase of their teachings. Even in extended shootouts, their observation is that those are simply broken down into a series of short windows where the fighting actually occurs -- the shooters break apart, one runs, seeks cover, etc. etc. etc. and it devolves into a series of short windows where shots are even possible. If a reload even occurs, it's something done in between the short engagements. As for my needs, I concur with their assessment.

Me, I don't devote a whole lot of time to speed reloads. On drills like the FAST, that becomes my weak point. 2.5-2.75s is a lot of time on a drill like that.

>>33691251
Well you are correct a slidelock speed reload as a CCW'r is going to be exceptionally rare, but so would be WHO shooting and maybe to an extent non contact distance SHO shooting.

I think the Modified LAPD drill is really stellar, it's hard too, it will take a lot for me to run it clean, I'm definitely going to try and cut corners on it though.

50 rounds well spent, I almost want to modify it slightly and steal the last 14 movement optional shots for SHO WHO and a slide lock reload.

>>33691386

My suggestion for SHO strings:
5yds draw, 2B1H in 3s (repeat x2) (6)
10yds draw, 2B in 3.5s (repeat x2) (10)
5yds transition to weak hand, 2B in 3.5s (repeat x2) (14)

>>33691465
If I commanded you to modify the modified LAPD SWAT qual and use the last 14 rounds for SHO/WHO and (1) slide lock reload, how would you format it?

>>33691527

If a slidelock reload has to be involved, that means cutting some things...

String 1: 5yds - Draw, 2B, reload, 2H. Repeat x2. Time standard's tricky... Ordinarily the standard is 2.5s for 2B1H at 5yds. You've got another headshot involved, so add .5s for that split. I'd say another 2.5s to allow for the reload for a total of 5.5s. The reasoning for the headshots after the reload is pretty straightforward: if I'm conducting an emergency reload and the dude still isn't dead, I need fight-ending hits right now. The second shot on the head is to encourage you to form a proper grip after the reload (you can get sloppy with 1R1 -- not so much with 1R2+). Unfortunately, this eats up eight rounds -- limiting the SHO/WHO strings.

SHO: 5yds -- Draw, 1H. Repeat x2. Time is 2s.

WHO: 5yds -- I'm not sure how to start this. Option a) is to place the gun on the ground, with the grip facing the dominant side, and require a pickup. Option b) is to start with the gun at high ready in the strong hand, transfer to the weak hand. Regardless of the start point, 2B. For option a), I'd suggest allowing for 2s to complete this, allow for .5s splits... Total of 3s. Shave a half second off for the transition, so 2.5s for that.

>>33691527
>>33691708

So I just dry-fired this...

The reload string is tight but doable. It may be wise to add .5s to the par as recoil's going to change things.

The SHO time limit was doable 10/10 times, probably .2s to spare.

The WHO string, starting from the ready and transitioning is doable but pretty tight. I think starting from the ground needs another .5s.

>>33691708
M8 Wtf does 2b mean

>>33692154
Probably 2 shots to the body? Just guessing.

>>33690507
Okay, I'm not much of a rifle guy myself

>>33692154

B = body
H = head
R = reload

In use, an example is 2B1H = two shots to the body, one to the head in that order.

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Dat dere Todd G
>you can't control a polymer .45!
>that high bore axis!

Had a shit day at the range today.

I ate a full meal an hour before I left, but I felt hungry as soon as I arrived. My groups were all over the fucking place.

What the fuck happened?

>>33693274
non nutritious nutrients?

Too much salt/sugar does it to me ezpz

>>33693274
Sounds like you got nervous. Happens randomly to me too on practice days, yet has never happened during league or a match. It's almost like our brains have a quota of "yeah well fuck you" moments they need to fill every month.

>>33693274
>>33693351

I like to drink a few beers while doing my training.

>>33693444
I like to smoke a few bowls

>>33693469
I used to smoke, problem was it was too accessible and easy to use and I ended up smoking all the time. ( for like 9 years straight then like a brief re-exploration for 9 months a year or so ago) now I'm an "adult"

Basically I'm just a furious cunt with a gun now.

Also Weed slows you down, I mean beer does too, but certainly not as much

>>33693001

As long as your motivated to post drills, shoot a little bit and keep threads alive - that's all the interest you need.

My AR hasn't left the safe in a year or so.

>>33691957
I try it next range session, see how it plays.

>>33695698
>My AR hasn't left the safe in a year or so.

I'm really the same way. My AR is my HD gun but I NEVER shoot it because my interest is more on the pistol side of things.

Going to the range to shoot it through some HD oriented drills and see how it shakes. First time I'm going to rapid fire a rifle so I'm pretty excited.

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>>33695770
Nice anon. That might net us some extra contributors, seeing as how rifles are usually noobguns first step.

Heck I don't even take mine out for HD anymore, the EDC is on 25/7 duty.

Yeah yeah I know disparity of gun etc etc, but I'm just so familiar and comfortable with the EDC.

>>33695807
Handguns as a home defense weapon is fine as long as you are proficiant with it. Getting into 'X must be X or it won't work' is stupid.

>>33698065
Agreed. I was just preparing for usual kind of responses. Seems DOTM does a fairly good job at weeding out the less desirable content contributions on /k/

>>33698600
We try

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>>33682121
Just for you

What sort of bullseye diameter should I be looking at for 10yd marksmanship practice?
Would using the 8.5x11 b8 in the 2nd post be a good place to start?

Also, if anyone has any info about what sort of targets are useful for certain distances, that would be appreciated

>>33700561
At ten yards you should be using something like a B3. If you can't keep all your shots in at least the 8 ring at a 1 round a second pace move it closer until you can, then work on moving back out before you speed up.

>>33700585
Alright, looks like I have a baseline

>>33700722
Cool. Pretty sure someone posted a B3 scaled for regular printer paper earlier in the thread if you want cheapo targets.

>>33656766

Found it, thanks famalam
>>33700756

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>268/300

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>>33700986
FBI qual? FBI gun.

SIG p228, yes i started every string with a decocked gun in DA.

>291/300

>>33700561
B8 is great at ANY range, definitely rec it. Reason being it's common and widespread so you would fairly easily be able to measure your shooting skills.

>>33700986
>>33701087

Need some vids of those shooting skills!

>>33701494
>Posting face on 4chan
Nope.

>>33701883
Wear your anonymous mask

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>>33700986
>>33701087

Both of those are nasty sir, man I'm so ashamed of my performances when stacked up to some of you anons.

I shot the new IDPA Qualifier today, not impressed with myself, infact FUCK EVERYTHING. 98.31 seconds including penalties.

Warmed up with 3 FASTs - focusing on not gaming my hand position, only passed one in the advanced bracket, pushed 3 out of the body string 1 and dropped 1 out of the head string 3, fml and kill me.

Run 2 went good. (WebM)

>>33701883
You are wise but no fun.

>>33701952
>Both of those are nasty sir
Thanks! I've shot this drill with just about half of my handguns at this point

Has anyone being collecting targets posted? I'm realizing we have quite a few drive by posters.

End of the month tally is going to be a little rough around the edges on this one.

Also - what kind of human being are you that you post a 290 + on this but don't lurk/browse regularly? I'm so confused by humanity

>>33703519
Shit, I hope so, maybe we can use the archives?

I've got all my targets but I'm in 4th or 5th place so it doesn't matter

>>33695807
>Nice anon. That might net us some extra contributors, seeing as how rifles are usually noobguns first step.

Yup. Ran two mags through my AR shooting at speed today. Glad I fucking did this because I wasn't anywhere as good as I thought I was and I suck ass at it.

>>33701952
your grip is horrendous

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>>33706150
que?

>>33706516
Maybe he thinks your support hand is too far forward? That and your bent arms always bugged me about your videos, but your recoil control and results on target don't lie so who gives a fuck? Just do you man.

>>33707097
>bent arms

I've found slightly bent arms help act as a strut, transforming snappy recoil in to slightly more pushy recoil, plus with them bent I can rotate them up and out slightly, this adds more positive pressure around the high part of my grip earning increased leverage.

>>33707660
Like I said, not arguing with the results.

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>>33708879
Completely understand, just thought it might be worth a quick explanation m8, who knows maybe some other anon might find it works well for him too.

>>33704080
>>33703519
I've got a couple of the better ones, but it's far from incomplete.

Who's winning atm? I think I saw a 296 with regular pistol and ofc me and my Contender with a 300.

>>33709533
I honestly forget, there's a lot of 290 + stuff out there, considering.

The drive by normie posters need to come back a little more regularly!

>>33709596
>The drive by normie posters need to come back a little more regularly!
Seriously, what's up with the low participation?

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>>33706516
>>33707660
I would say that your left hand is kinda far forward. Looks like there may be a gap between your hands at the base of your thumb that could mess with your recoil impulse. not sure how much this matters in all actuality

>>33712343

Gun owners are no different than any other enthusiasts, most would rather talk, gawk and fondle than do.

/k/ is apparently as bad as every where else. The hyperbolic conjecture thrown around is real, unfortunately. Hey, at least we are keeping the 30-40 posters. And maybe a drill w/o a 25 yard 8.5x11 will encourage a few more people? Also that one anon might work on getting a longgat thing in, we just gotta persevere.

>>33712393
There is a small gap. I've experimented with every grip I could discover/create, given my anatomy this is the one that offers the most leverage and purchase on the gun.

And I would say that little wedge of a gap doesn't matter, regardless of haley's video on it - I simply cannot make my giant skinny meathooks spread over the grip like he and some other people can.

>>33712395
>most would rather talk, gawk and fondle than do.
I read that as Glock at first and it confused me.

It's kind of frustrating that we're the only ones that are willing to even try. Even the LEO from last thread hasn't come back

>>33712442
Are you using the light as a thumb lever to control recoil?

>>33715352

Yes I use it as a ledge

>>33715628
Have you noticed any issues with the mounting by doing that?

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>>33715908
I'm about 3.5k rounds in with the gun/light combo, so far no issues. Haven't lock-tighted it or anything either.

So are we sold on Dot Torture for next month guys? I think about a week early is probably a good time to get the discussion finalized on the next DOTM

Also any anons out there ready to carry the longgat fire and propose something?

Hitting the range in a couple hours, might not post results due to trading in my phone.

>>33717537
have fun m8

>>33717965
I brought a Jimenez JA22 and some B8 repair centers

>>33718806
This should be entertaining.

If you blow the gun up and any part of it goes through the target I vote it counts for a perfect 300/30x.

>>33715936
I'd be willing to spearhead the rifle portion. What're people interested in? Pure accuracy (10rd group from bench or prone)? Some sort of timed fire from standing?

Most people won't have access to places they can do run n' gun or shoot over 300m, as fun as those would be.

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>>33718878
Oh, also..

If we do pure accuracy, GL fellows. I got this shit on lock.

>>33718878

I don't have any specific recs, but I would stay with in the parameters of accessible, easy to understand, and FUN.

>>33718987
Ok. How's this sound?
>centerfire with mag capacity >/=10
10 rounds standing offhand at 50 yards on B8, time limit 1 minute. 10 rounds kneeling at 50 yards on same B8, time limit 1 minute. 10 rounds prone supported/benched/bipod'd (best of what's available to you, rear bag not allowed) at 100 yards, B2, unlimited time
>centerfire with mag capacity <10 or ultra-draconian ranges who disallow use of standard cap mags
Same string of fire but single-loaded with 6 second splits from closed action on time-constricted stages.

For those who have ranges that disallow kneeling, sit at the bench and support using only elbows.

This should satisfy even the most draconian range

.22lr/.17hm2 users halve the target distance using same targets, so 25 and 50 yards respectively. Pellet rifle users shoot at 10 and 25 yards. Not really sure what to do with the .17hmr/.17wsm shooters, those things are fucking lasers but get btfo by wind.

>>33719094
I like it, seems to cover all the bases.

I suggest when when start next months thread we emphasize the existence of a new rifle division so non-participants who normally wouldn't open the thread catch the gist even just browsing the catalog.

>>33719190
Considering I've had to re-start the last 2 threads it'll be listed right after the current-format OP.

>>33718829
What do I get if I shoot above instructor?

>>33719530
Mad props and suspicion

>>33719227
I would rec an opening like like DOTM - NEW RIFLE DRILLS TOO (better wording than that, sorry pressed for time)

Just something to grab the posters who write off these threads as having no interesting content for them so they ever expand and read the whole OP, if that makes sense.

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>>33719533
Don't hate me because I'm beautiful

>>33719712
Also, does this mean 3rd place is a Jimenez?

>>33719712
>>33719855

kek I think so

noice

>>33719855
There's a 4-way tie with 295's I think. I really don't know who's winning atm.

>>33719964
>>33719936
In light of my previous chucklefuckery and this new JA22 development, I proclaim myself fucking done with this DOTM, I really don't know what ese i could do.

>>33653968
>>33719964
Are we counting non official targets?

>>33720773
I don't think we should, that said I really want that anon to reproduce that score on a B8 so we can praise him.

But I'm not lord of DOTM so we gotta figure it out all democratic like.

>>33720920
I'm said anon. It won't hurt my feelings if we don't count it. I don't think I'll be able to make it out to the range in time to reshoot

>>33720938
It's good of you to be so considerate about it, from my point of view the problem is it then encourages more anons to shoot whatever and just jimmy rig results.

Even if 100% were accurate to a T it would deflate the observer's ability to appreciate the targets and the commonality is now gone. Kind of undermines the idea of a standardized drill if we are all shooting whatever targets IMHO

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P30 dude, I'm going to a gun show tomorrow, and I'm debating grabbing a CZ scorpion if I find a good deal on one.
If I don't, I may grab another HK. I've had a sudden craving for a P30. Is it worth it if I've got a USPT45?
Also, how does the P30 compare in size to other handguns?

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>>33723512
>Is it worth it if I've got a USPT45?

Completely relative, I find the P30 much more ergonomic and modern than my 2 USPs. Big thing for me - I shoot the LEM trigger as my focus is fighting gun stuff etc etc

>Also, how does the P30 compare in size to other handguns?

I feel like it's a "g19" gun - which is why I carry the P30L (pic related is a P30 vs g19)

For me the big deal is grip ergonomics, fuck I own two P30s and two USPs so it's nothing personal, simply the newer stuff fits better.

And the P30's have an insane proven lifespan thanks to smart, dedicated trainers like ToodG

F

http://pistol-training.com/archives/2668

>>33723750
I'll probably mess with one tomorrow then. I've been carrying the M&P for a while, but I'd like something more compact. I just can't bring myself to get a subcompact, though. They don't fit my hands well at all.
If I do get something tiny, though, it'll either be a glock 43 or an M&P9c