So, when is the government going to ask for our money back?

>>33645271
>our
They stole it from you, Anon. It's theirs now.

>spend a trillion USD on a fighter
>China hacks the blueprint one afternoon
>a year later they have a working copy of your trillion USD fighter
This is a level of absurdity that I can't even laugh at.

>>33645271
So you don't like the F-35?

>>33645271
image unrelated

>>33645271
Isn't the price per unit pretty normal? Am I ignorant and looking at pricing post-development, not factoring in the apparently absurd R&D cost? I rarely see people try to lay that stuff out

>>33645314
Wait.. China stole the F-35?
HAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahaha

Those poor fucks.

Sad part is they probably have a better working version than we do.

>>33645314
They only have the basic dimensions, not the internal specifics. Not to mention the F-35 from 2004 is much different from the one being fielded right now.

>>33645369
If you knew anything about how the F35 actually works, you'd know that China's gimped version is a sad excuse of a copy, also what >>33645370
said

>>33645314
it was a chinese CANADIAN actually

>All the damage control ITT

Guys face it; the Shenyang J31 is already a match for our F35. Even more impressive is how fast it reached IOC even aftet the boost they got after allegedly hacking our systems

Honestly we should just drop the F-35 and go to the next step. If a company goes under for it... well fuck them. They are not the best of anything so we dont really lose the advantage anyhow over anyone.

>>33645975
certainly not in the engine department. People who have seen it fly IRL have said it went to full burner for even it's most basic turns, which points to inability to maintain energy.

Also, it's for export only, which only happens when the Chinese gov thinks it's not worth buying and fielding.

>>33646072
What's the next step? Why are they not the best? What's the best in your eyes?

>>33645975
Yes, the anti F-35 narrative has been in damage control for some time.

>>33646075
....Ive also heard the same thing about the J20. Does China take any of their indigenous products seriously enough to field them as frontline fighters or do they still rely on Russian engineering assistance?

>>33646131
Literally only Americans, Russians, and Frenchies can be trusted to design and manufacture quality aircraft. Its why everyone not named Sweden buys from them

>>33646131
Only recently has China eclipsed Russian in the tech department, and only then it's very early on in that "era"

>>33646178
>eclipsed
Yeah, no. As much as we argue with Vladimirs and Anatolis here on /k/, ill openly disagree with the statement that their tech is inferior to China's.

>>33646086
Well, truthfully I dont know. I dont know the latest aircraft coming down the pipe. I do know the F-35 is not it.

Jack of all trades and best at none is the wrong way to go. If it was cheap to produce and maintain, okay I can see that, but it is not. It is costly and shown as failing in all fields against other aircraft. This is bad if we want to rule the air.

also note: brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrt

>>33646226
Pierre please stop posting

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>>33645553

>>33646131
Would YOU deploy a chinese-sourced, chinese-designed and chinese-built military device?

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>>33645314
>spend a trillion USD on a fighter
No, we didn't.

>China hacks the blueprint one afternoon
They got nothing of any real value.

>a year later they have a working copy of your trillion USD fighter
See pic

>>33645361
It's a lot less than the Eurocanards per plane, and the dev costs are actually less than those of the F-22.

>>33646288
Not by my experiences with Chinese products, though one would.assume that the Chinese would as it would be good for national spirit, a boon to their domestic industry and excellent marketing to help their incipient military exports industry.

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>>33645975
>the Shenyang J31 is already a match for our F35.

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>>33646329
FU butthurt americant

>>33646131
two J20s were put up against 5 4th gen aircraft with AWACs support recently in a red flag type exercise and the J20s won.

even having just reduced RCS is such an advantage it's not funny.

>>33646341
The Chinese culturally have a markedly different approach than Westerners when it comes to economic ideals

>>33646363
Here's your 4 yuan, go buy some gutter oil.

I'm not sure what critics want in a plane, or for the F35 to do that it doesn't already do. Can't fly on 40 year old air frames forever.

>>33646396
>gutter oil

Can't believe id forgotten about that

>>33646226

>It is costly and shown as failing in all fields against other aircraft.

Does Boeing charge by the hour or by posts?

>>33646405
Why not? Improve the material, electronics, engine, etc. If the frame works, use it until it doesnt.

>>33646267
This meme was tolerable until newfags got ahold of it and spammed it to fit in.

>>33646369

>"When a fifth generation fighter meets a fourth generation fighter—[the latter] dies."

>Gen. Mark A. Welsh III, U.S. Air Force Chief of Staff

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>>33646075
>People who have seen it fly IRL have said it went to full burner for even it's most basic turns

tfw saw airshow F-22 do the same

>>33646476
That's the thing, the frames aren't working, they're all old and busted.
And if you're going to be spending all that money on tooling up production lines then on cramming new engines, avionics, stealth, whatever, you might as well start with a clean sheet.

>>33646514
tfw you saw a plane flying and didn't know enough to understand what was going on

>>33646288
>Would YOU deploy a chinese-sourced, chinese-designed and chinese-built military device?

I'd certainly look at it i they agreed to give me a free one of everything and a bribe for looking at it

I would not go further than that though.There is a reason norinco plinkers are cheap

>>33646506
If you don't spend so much time on here it all becomes more tolerable.

>>33646476
Because at some point, someone else will develop something exceptionally better, then go on to have better tech than you, then, if you two ever come to blows, you're basically fucked. You'll have to scramble to design, produce, and field an entirely new frame while the other guy perfects his.

>>33645271
When are you going to stop doing Pierre Spray's shitposting for him?

>>33645314
>1 trillion
Over the coarse of the entire program, including parts, training and personnel.
>China hacks the 'blueprint'
That's not how hacking or blueprints works, anon
>China has a 1:1 copy
China doesn't have the materials science to copy it, so that's moot. It might look similar on the outside but that's where pretty much all similarity ends

>>33645975
>Already a match

AHAHAHAHAHAHAAH what the actual fuck makes you think anyone believes this

>>33646369
>The F-35 is a 4th gen, you heard it here first!

I also wouldn't be at all surprised if this was for a specific situation in which the J20s were advantaged or if we just wanted China to think they'd have a chance.

>>33646514
But not because it needed the constant thrust just to remain airworthy. There's a reason the F-22 demo show has the plane take off and go to vertical without AB.

>>33647328
no, it was just straight two J20s vs 5 J16s with AWACs support. even chinese bootleg "stealth" aircraft will destroy 4th gen planes.

>>33647340
>Two Chinese planes versus 5 Chinese planes

Still not concerned in the slightest about the F-18's chances against a J20, and a J20 vs a 22 or 35 would probably be hilarious.

>>33647388
>>Still not concerned in the slightest about the F-18's chances against a J20
you probably should be.

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>>33645314
>working
>implying

Like everything else Chines, it's a cheap knock-off.

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>>33645314
>they have a working copy

a "working" copy

FTFY

Why does the US aeronautics seem to be the only one where people actively criticize and downplay the performance of the newest jet?

>Russian aeronautics
>This plane is fucking great

>Chinese aeronautics
>This plane is fucking great

>US aeronautics
>This plane is fucking shit

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>>33647483

Jealousy

>>33647328
>Over the coarse of the entire program, including parts, training and personnel.
Out to 50 years from now.

>>33647483
We expect better. If it costs more it better perform better. Anything else would be stupid and wasteful.

>>33645271
>>33645314
>>33645975
>>33646226
let's get this going

>>33647483
>Russian aeronautics
>This plane is fucking great
>falls apart in the sky

>US aeronautics
>This plane is fucking shit
>pilots suffocate, military blames pilots

>Chinese aeronautics
>This plane is fucking great
>pilots suffocate as their planes fall apart

>>33647328
>coarse

>>33647483
Mostly? Because of James Fallows and his Circular Experts built around John Boyd's followers like Sprey. They built up the MIC corruption myth and created the perception amongst the uneducated layman class on both sides of the aisle that all high-tech projects are a waste of money.

>>33647515
>If it costs more it better perform better.
What about when it performs leagues above while costing less?

>>33647538
>pilots suffocate, military blames pilots
>Short-lived problem fixed a long time ago

>>33647538
>pilots suffocate, military blames pilots
Wow, I never knew that this happened in ever plane the US has ever developed. Thanks for the info

>>33647566
It was an issue with the oxygen system in the F-22 for a while.

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>>33645271
>>33645314
>>33645975
>>33646226
fuck, forgot the image

>>33645271
Oh he doesn't know. Your money is theirs silly, you're just a small, small link in the chain. Lockheed is the "private sector" manifestation of the government, and vice versa

>>33647735
>Americans getting paid to produce a high-tech American product in every state
>Hurr gruddy Luckmurt!

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>>33647746
I work at one of these companies, for better or worse they are indeed "work programs"

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>>33646226
>Being a Boeing/General Dynamics/Northrop Grumman shill

For what purpose?

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>>33647421
>filename

>>33646337

I've heard it's the most expensive weapon of all time though

>>33648758
GD was bought by LM a long time ago and Northrop is a major participant in the F-35 program.

So it's basically just Boeing shits.

>>33648901
I bet you also heard bananas can cure aids.

>>33648901
it's the largest single defense project ever
but it's also three different planes for three branches for decades

>>33649891
And three separate programs would be nearly as much individually.

>>33650185
you are correct
I am a proponent of the F-35
the fact that it is so large and expansive makes the high total pricetag totally justifiable