Should people in STEM be exempt from a Draft (Hypothetical Question)

>>33642550
Nope, the Military will always need those skills, just be thankful you will likely be an Officer rather than a conscript PFC.

>>33642577
/thread

>>33642550
>in school for STEM degrees be exempt?
You can't get drafted from school you dumb STEM elitist.

The draft needs to be done away with. If we can't fight a war with a volunteer army we have no business getting involved in the first place.

>>33642604

Not even in college or a STEM field.

Nice try.

Does the medical field count as science? There are plenty of medical related fields that are solid careers. I'm a Paramedic student, going into nursing. It's practical, theory based, and I know what gunshots do people via experience .

>>33642781
You guys will be on the top of the draft list, just be happy that you will be a NCO or and Officer

>>33642550
Suck it up, fellow nerd. Someone's got to learn about radios and how to maintain their decades old computer equipment.

>>33642577
>the Military will always need those skills

On a research team, not on the field with slogger magee.

>ROTC

Voluntary.

>>33642577
>Thinking the government needs to a draft a shit load of officers.

Yeah, no. They need infantry if anything.

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>>33642781
Try saying your a CO that might work!

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The draft isn't coming back.

Hardly anyone today would want to be drafted and fight for the United States.

>>33642550
>STEM degrees exempt
Fuck no lol, especially if you're decently fit. You're either good enough to be given a military research position, or you're like 85% of people with STEM degrees and you're going to be handed a gun and told to shoot some commies or brown people.

OR you enlist with other elements of your country's armed forces ahead of time (even as a reservist) and get a nice POG position so you can sit in a FOB and have skills they won't want to burn immediately.

Keep in mind that the country is concerned with preserving itself first and foremost, they don't give a fuck whether or not you scrub toilets for a living or if you're doing simulations. If they can use a warm body, guess where you're going?

>>33644344
Did they seriously not look at people's occupations when they drafted them? Like, you get some guy that puts up steel beamed buildings for a living, and you shove his ass in infantry instead of the CBs?

Cause that don't make no sense.

>>33642612
>someone invades your country
>"yea well we shouldn't of gotten involved"
r u styoopid

>>33644371
You're more likely to see someone who shoves steel shit around get pushed into a manufacturing role, potentially like shipbuilding, if needed. Valuable skills like that for military value and production will be put where they're needed, however that can be circumstantial and it's never a guarantee. It can take some careful wording.

They don't give a rats ass if you merged 3 companies and made a multi-million deal if their manpower on the front is low and it's a total war (minus nukes) scenario. They might not even give a shipbuilder respite in that scenario.

Iirc the draft is essentially a lottery, and you're going no matter who the fuck you are if your name is drawn, or you have very high-up connections.

They'll never send their DARPA researchers to the front (they might as well surrender if it gets to that point) since they make a lot of new military shit quickly. Same for employees or other military R&D companies or groups. If they need those guys to be fighting, then the war is basically over.


Now you might get put in some research positions if the government knows your name and they need what you do, but for the majority (again, 85%) you'll not be selected as a researcher and you'll be hitting an expedited basic and thrown into the meat grinder pretty quickly.

>>33644300
>someone decides to invade Morocco
>REEEEEEEEEE

>>33644300
Don't worry, the countries under 50% will soon be populated with people whose culture is from countries that are above.

>>33642550
>I want STEMfags to think of themselves as special snowflakes even more than they already do

No.

>>33644439
Pretty much this. My Uncle went through college on nrotc scholarship, and got a degree in mechanical engineering. Once he graduated he ended up with a waiver and never served because he worked for a major aerospace company on Military contracts. It sounds like bullshit, but I'm pretty sure that's the story. I would expect much the same in a draft situation.

>>33642550
Yeah I have an ENGINEERING degree, so I'm pretty much to intelligent and valuable to risk during a war.

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No. You should just have your loans forgiven (not the bullshit they do right now where you literally cannot escape from loans even through combat service) and also get your GI bill.

>>33644628
Not if they can apply that degree to something, like say ENGINEERING. Unless you fuck up the ASVAB you shouldn't have any problems getting a cozy desk job.

>>33644705
The way you "escape from loans" is to pay back the money you borrowed you fuck.

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>>33644732
Nah, fuck that shit.

>>33644732
Or claim bankruptcy. Fucking millenials don't have assets, anyway.

>>33644751
> Federal loan
> Claim bankruptcy

Check the fine print, broseph. If it's a federal student loan, you must file a separate action to discharge your debt, and it is not often granted.

You're going to be carrying that shit for life, like luggage.

>>33644751
You can't bankruptcy your way out of loans either. A couple med students did that in the 70s and then the Jews said "lol fuck that shit."

>>33644732
They actually advertise it though.
>join the military and get combat pay and your school debts will be forgiven!
>join the EOD now!
>(you have to make 120 on-time payments of the the asked-for amount BEFORE you are eligible for loan forgiveness, meaning that your loans must be paid off before the government can forgive them through military service)

>>33644300
>poll taken in major cities
>accounts for everyone
jesus christ...

>>33642550
The US has a huge military research complex, comprising scientists, technologists, engineers and mathematicians.

>>33644300
>caring if the conscripts wanted to be drafted or not
You are on a whole new level of stupid.

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>>33644995
Woah...it's almost like the majority of the US population lives in urban areas...about 82%...

>>33645091
Urban areas != major cities and just urban areas aren't going to be representative.

Also that map is 50% population according to the name, not 82%

>>33642550
No, they are useful for position that could use their field is expertise. I'm a comp sci degree holder and I have accepted my fate of being drafted if the time arises. I would not mind being a foot soldier on the battlefield, I just don't think I have the physical aptitude to useful on the battlefield, being a manlet weighing 140-150 lbs.

>>33642577
College degree gets you spc if you enlist.... That's hardly officer.

>>33644230
>Yeah, no. They need infantry if anything.
... Lad it isn't 1950 anymore.

non-combat support roles are no longer for women, we need better because the positions are actually important in modern combat.

>>33642612

Frankly this.

>>33642612
>needs
I think you mean should.

The only thing that the draft needs is a bill that requires it to only be used for wars that have been formally declared and passed by congress.

>>33642550
>U.S.
>draft
Yes please. I can't wait for all the shit I'll loot during the ensuing civil war/riots.

>>33647227
>all the cucks get given felonies
>every city, county, and state turns red

>>33647227
Maybe they'll finally put up and actually move to Canada.

>>33644300
I love that even the slightly westernized Vietnamese urbanites are still ready to go. It seems like past success or failures really make a difference.

>>33642550
are they not already for the most part? by the time many of them are done with school they are nearing 25.
it's not like having degrees or stem experience they're going to be assigned to line units unless they want to be.

No country is worth fighting for.

>>33644300
Notice how all the wealthy, educated countries are low.

>>33647277
>nearing 25

Only if you go to grad school. If you don't get more than a BS, you're just as good cannon fodder as all the liberal arts students.

>>33644230
>Yeah, no. They need infantry if anything.

Draftees haven't been in front-line units since the Korean War.

>>33642612
The volunteer military should be abolished. It's too expensive and encourages frivolous warfare.

>>33642577

This right here.

>>33644391
>someone invades your country
>"yea well we shouldn't of gotten involved"

>r u styoopid

A county which can't defend itself through volunteer effort alone doesn't deserve its sovereignty.

>>33647463
>A county which can't defend itself through volunteer effort alone doesn't deserve its sovereignty.
I disagree.

It absolutely deserves it, it just will die and be a non-entity.

>>33647240
>Libertarians gain power
>destroy the prison industry
>all convicts of what are no longer crimes go free
>every city, county, and state turns blue
be careful what you wish for

>>33647463

>invade the US

I don't think you understand how any of this works.

>>33647463
This.

If no one wants to volunteer to fight for their country, then their country isn't worth fighting for.

A country not worth fighting for has no reason to exist.

>>33644300
>Sweden 55%
Why has nobody commented about that?

>>33647544
You're assuming that all libertarians are idealists/ideologues, or even for that matter are capable of agreeing.

Libertarians don't agree with each other on:
size of government
federalism vs anti-federalism
standing armies
foreign policy
reality vs ideals
tax system
logical consistency vs outcome
should property rights extend to the air
whether government property legitimate
everything else

Basically libertarians vary between authoritarian and ancap.

Yes, authoritarian libertarians exist. (read: people can't be trusted to not fuck up freedom, so they aren't permitted to.)

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Depends entirely on the degree I think.

Physicists/Chemists/Engineers all have their use but what do you do with ten thousand mathematicians?

>>33642612
Desu fampai, excluding of course a war on home soil. I have a feeling in that case too many men would be more focused on protecting their family than their country.

ITT: STEMfags think that they won't be kicking in doors and getting shot at regardless of their MOS.

You all seem to be forgetting that anyone who isn't an officer is a rifle first, job second.

>>33642550
Honestly I was always working towards my degree with the expectation that I'd be part of a defense contractor or an officer desk jockey doing development

>>33644300
>Finland
I always knew Finland was the greatest country on that side of the planet.

>>33648355
Encryption, logistics, artillery. Ten thousand mathematicians would be damn useful.

>>33644300
Maybe if the US would stop fighting Israel's wars people would want to fight. The better question would have been if the country was being invaded though toobeehonest

>>33642612
The draft HAS been done away with. You aren't going to be drafted any time soon. On the off chance that the government needs to use it, the remnants are still in place. This is just good thinking by the government. Easier to have a system in place and unused than need a system and not have one.

>>33642550
I come from the school of thought that would have every able body serve 2-4 years in the military as soon as they turned 18.
So no.

>>33650258
Or maybe if the US wasn't so diverse and full of people who think of themselves as Americans second, you'd have more people willing to fight

This isn't just an US problem either; it feels like every Western nation is trying to be the same, at least across their cities

What identity each individual country has seems to be slowly fading away

>>33645419
tfw you rekt him with his own argument.

Due to my physical state, I'm pretty sure I'd be completely undraftable as a door kicker; if it came down to the feds chucking me a rifle and sending me to the frontlines, I can reasonably abandon since we've basically been decimated and there's no hope. As a geophysicist I'm not sure what the fuck they'd use me for anyways; GPS systems, geodesy and surveing seem like the things I'm most intimate with that would be of use, but even then they seem pretty useless. I can also do most of the math and physics a dedicated mathematician and physicist could do, maybe that could lead to something.

>>33644543
Tfw Finland invades america.

>>33647375
Except for Israel.

>>33642612
>t. American "military" """""expert"""""

Drafted army vs. volunteer army non-debate:

For country like the US in current geopolitical situation draft makes virtually no sense. During the cold war, at least the first part of it, there was a belief that it would be. WHAAAT??? Armchair generals told me that conscripts are literally useless!

Volunteer peacetime military tends to end up as professional force with superior motivation and skills when compared to drafted one, except it's only about grunts, as NCO's and up were preferably pros in drafted armies(well, officers were always profs but that's beyond the point). Of course good quality PFC's are not a liability but in the grand scheme they're little.

What's important however, about volunteer army is that it's great for colonial policing. Arguments like "our boys die over there" don't mean shit when you realise that they've signed up for this themselves. This is why Great Britain was historically in favour of small, professional army - their empire was mostly defended thanks to naval supremacy so the army needed to just do policing and colonial conquests.

What's much worse, is that your reserves are bound to be very, very tiny. Great Britain needed millions during WW1 but started with 100k and at best twice as many reservists. In France or Germany, on the other hand, you've already had millions in the armies, and another millions that could've been quickly mobilised and given up-to-date training(basic was already done years ago) to send them to the frontlines, when they were needed. Britain had to hunt down every single volunteer until they finally realised that they're not going to do shit without draft. In the WW1(or WW2 for that matter) there were no problems with motivation and pro-peace movements were virtually inexistent(or at least well-policed) because it was a war for great stakes and one that could potentially endanger Britain.

>>33648111
All the warlike refugees are spiking the results.

Also nice gets.

>>33650989
During Korean war, drafted US army experienced discipline problems, and as such until they've realised that "citizen drafted army" is a scam(pushed by Truman administration due to public outrage about "treating our boys badly even though there is no war") that resulted in conscripts being unable to assemble their rifles properly, let alone to zero them.

There was also morale problem, because hey - it was literally colonial policing. Pros would do well in this case, because they've signed up to do this, but draftees - not so much.

All those relatively modern experiences(I'm not even going to bother with pointing out that Ukraine had no choice but go back to draft or that the same happened in Syria, so I won't give any concrete examples) point out particular advantages of both system.

With volunteer/professional army you get:
>more trained grunts
>no morale/motivation problems regardless of what kind of action they're performing(with draftees - give them huge total war and they're happy, give them colonial policing and they'll start fraging their NCO's/CO's whole the time)

With drafted/conscript army you get:
>larger force
>huge reserve, helping you with fighting total war

Therefore both of these models have advantages and disadvantages depending on the type of country we're talking about.

Countries that are endangered by bigger, more populous neighbour, are much better off using drafted armies as it will at least level the field a little bit. Therefore it makes sense for Greece or Estonia to practice draft.

Countries that have to mobilise for big total war quickly are better off with drafted armies. As evident from both world wars and Cold War era draft in the US(they figured out that if shit gets hot, US can't rely on their allies to fend off the communists by themselves, so they have to get to the NATO borders fast and in huge numbers).

>>33644300

>44%

We've really let our national identity go, but the UK needs to man up: if they aren't willing to fight for their country, I am!

>tfw there probably won't be another draft unless shit seriously hits the fan
I just want to have a purpose in life but I don't want to volunteer and end up washing rocks all day.

>>33651041
Countries that do a lot of colonial policing will generally prefer professional/volunteer armies - 19th century Great Britain being the model example of it. Otherwise they'll go for kind of dual-solution of having draft for home defence and volunteers handling policing(France in 19th and first half of 20th century, Vietnam war era America, Afghanistan War era USSR).

tl;dr drafted and volunteer armies have advantages and disadvantages depending on the type of war you're likely to get into, the arrogant "lol draft is shit" attitude that's especially prevalent in the USA is absolutely wrong.

>>33650987
For all the shit Jews get, they at least want to protect their identity as Jewish.

Nobody should have to serve compulsory military service.

Involuntary servitude is unconstitutional per the 13th Amendment, but don't tell the Supreme Court that.