Are military officers still considered members of high society?

>>33597024
The knife and fork class was still a thing when I went to Sandhurst so they do expect you to at least pretend to be a gentleman, We had people from all walks of life join though so background matters much less nowadays.

Depends if you're from high society or not.

>>33597024
A general is. Maybe even a Colenal.

Generals became Presidents.

>>33597069
you mean a cernal

No,

going back X number of centuries only rich people went to college and could become officers. Now wealthy people generally need to avoid the military to remain wealthy.

>>33597158
No. I meant Colonel you Missipi shit dick inbred.

>>33597024
Not really. I'm just a middle class dumbass from New England, but I could become an officer. That wasn't the case 100 years ago.

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>>33597241
No, I'm pretty sure 100 years ago people dreamt of becoming an officer but not doing it too

>>33597217
>britbongs calling anyone else inbred
the irony

>>33597024

If you ask an Officer, the answer is yes

If you ask anyone else, the answer is no.

>>33597024
>But is being a commissioned officer still "esteemed" in the public eye

Absolutely, just not in the eye of the enlisted

The last time officers held social esteem was the late 60s and early 70s, and most of these officers were officers who were not current. They were veterans of wars that represented the last throws of empires and the second world war.

With the death of the colonial period and the end of empires came the death of the officers social status. While it's certainly true that officers still hold a place of respect in society (as long as they aren't butter bars really), they aren't some priestly class as they used to be in most of the world. The notable exceptions are mostly autocratic states or places that still have a heavy militant culture.

There's a few really good books on the subject indirectly. Most of them are about things like the decline of Western Civilization or just the fall of empires, but they usually touch on the transition of the armed forces from a protective, protected or infallible class to the civilian control and the glorification by other means.

The last counties I can think of who use officers as an esteemed class kind are places like Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, S. And N. Korea, and various African states. If the public widely holds the same opinion is varied, but they usually have special permissions or huge advantages economically and socially.

>>33597254
Not all of us, just norfolk and merseyside

>>33597367
>>33597367
I'm from a commonwealth unit, and even some of the "traditions" and parades we do seem a bit antiquated when compared to "normal" or "PC" non-military context. At a public commemoration, our chaplain may say a prayer, the speaker may still use terminology that references the "Empire, colonialsts, settlers, etc". The formality, and processions that we sometimes do for the public increasingly seems out of place. It's like we're doing it for ourselves, and the public are like "oooh that's neat, lets take a picture" without knowing the context or why we're doing it in the first place. Quite disheartening really..

>>33597217
>missipi

EM EYE ESS ESS EYE ESS ESS EYE PEE PEE EYE

>>33597024
In the US? No, they're the same public school-"educated" garbage and throwaways who make up the enlisted ranks.

Not really. However among officers things are still very political, and your facade of being the model citizen that goes to church and is always doing extra shit outside of work is very important

>>33597586
>However among officers things are still very political
This is the reason most of the good ones make O-3 then get out, it takes a real shit bag to throw someone under the bus for a promotion.

>>33597586
>However among officers things are still very political,
>>33597604
>This is the reason most of the good ones make O-3 then get out, it takes a real shit bag to throw someone under the bus for a promotion.
What did they mean by this?

>>33597556
>a name where every letter starts with the letter E

Lol amerifats are so cute

>>33597054
What other non military things do you have to learn at Sandhurst?

>>33597646
Promotion to O-3 is pretty much guaranteed unless you are a real fuck up, after that you need to stand out to get promoted which means kissing ass and making others look bad, often deliberately.

>>33597684
>What other non military things do you have to learn at Sandhurst?
General etiquette, how to dress for certain occasions, the correct way to write formal letters. Basically it is a crash course on how to behave around what people think the upper class is, in reality the upper class tend to eat like pigs and struggle to dress themselves.

>>33597732
Where there any working class guys there? People with geordie accents and the like.

>>33597739
Plenty, we had one lad that was the son of a bin man. Your background matters very little nowadays unless you want a certain Regiment, you can forget getting into the Household Division or the Gurkhas as an Officer if you are not from the right family.

>>33597782
>Household Division or the Gurkhas as an Officer if you are not from the right family.
u w0t m8? Can you go more into this? Stuff like this is completely foreign to me.

>>33597811
The Household Division is run by toffs and the Gurkhas like to "keep it in the family", meaning they prefer to recruit the sons and grandchildren of previous Offices (knowing the language helps too).

>>33597604
That's called business. How do you think someone gets promoted in a company? You have to look better than your competition.

>>33597691
If everyone above O-3 is a shitbag then why would it matter if you threw them under the bus for a promotion?

Mate went into blues and royal as they have the highest mess bill. He changed his last name to a double barrel, got good at polo, join ed the beagle club and got married to a 'good family'

Sandhurst and British military still has a massive high society kabal, mainly due to the royal family.

Passing out parade at Sandhurst is a great party. Pretty fucking posh though

>>33597839
My mate has his heart set on being an officer in the Irish Guards, is he fucked?

>>33597024
>But is being a commissioned officer still "esteemed" in the public eye

Sort of.
You're not really 'high society' as such, but you are a professional in so much that I went through 4 years of university (engineering) and then I did another 18 months in officer training (ADFA) before being cut loose on poor bloody unsuspecting troopers.
That's a lot of training and a lot to work, heck a medical GP can usually get churned out in 4-5 years and a surgeon in 5-7. I guess here there's something of a pragmatic or egalitarian nature of my society where people who can do and are proven to do well in a certain area, will get put into that place where they can do the most good.
So as a bumblefuck country boy it wasn't ever really brought up as being anything relevant to my posting or choice of posting.
(That isn't always the case in other countries where people are promoted and churned out to sweet jobs if they have some nobility or party-member ties)

What is expected though is a higher level of demonstrated ability, behaviour and leadership- if you don't get those right, you're going to do more harm than good and as soon as there's sufficient pressure, any cracks are going to show very quickly. Once I got out of the army and walked down civi street to get a job it was relatively easy with a good resume and service record. Plus, I'm just not intimidated by anyone, can read people fairly well and deal with pressure better than most.

>>33597858
>If everyone above O-3 is a shitbag then why would it matter if you threw them under the bus for a promotion?
Because everyone uptil then is "good". As a captain, you're not going to be throwing a major or a lt-col under the bus for anything...

>>33597024
>pilots

Yes

>infantry

No

>>33597924
He should at least try, he should arrange to visit their mess and try to get sponsorship.

>>33598014
How would one go about that?

>>33598140
His local AFCO should have the contact details for their mess, it is down to him to write or email them. Officers cannot choose their Regiment or Battalion so you have to impress them, getting sponsorship before you go to Sandhurst is a huge step towards getting the job you want.

>>33597872
None of that happened, did it?

>>33597924
Arrange a "senpai visit" if they still call them that. I don't know much more than that, though soldiers and officers who have interacted with the potential Young Officer are invited to give their opinion after the visit has been made. I joined the Grenadier Guards decades ago and although every single officer we had was the product of a boarding school, they were universally good officers. If you're what they're after they'll take you, if you aren't they won't. All the rubbish about gigantic mess bills getting sorted by Coutts bank accounts went out in the 50s. Even then it was not considered acceptable.

Do not be the sort of shit who gets rejected by all the good Regiments in the Army, then spends a career talking about how they turned him down because he wasn't rich enough. It doesn't wash.

>>33598206
>His local AFCO should have the contact details for their mess
Why would he contact the mess?

>Officers cannot choose their Regiment or Battalion
Drivel.

>getting sponsorship before you go to Sandhurst is a huge step towards getting the job you want.

Why bother writing about something you clearly have never done, or taken part in?

Express an interest in the Irish Guards. Attend a familiarisation visit, do a YOs weekend and keep contact throughout Sandhurst after passing main board.

>>33598249
How do Royal Marine officers differ from Army officers in terms of training and recruitment? I know RM officers train down in Plymouth.

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>>33597556
>mfw this caused a flashback to kindergarten or first grade

>>33598221
It did though.

>>33598221
>Arrange a "senpai visit"
That filter was perfect.

Can you imagine phoning or emailing some random corporal to get passed up the foodchain
>senpai, pls, let me visit your unit, I want to lead you!

>>33599488
Int Corps would be delighted, that lot contains a lot of weebs for sure.

>>33597556
myssyssyppy?

>>33600662
I am sorry that your puppy is a sissy, maybe you could take him to a boxing gym to toughen up.

>>33598284
Oh lord, please ask a marine that and have someone film it

>>33597024
>But is being a commissioned officer still "esteemed" in the public eye

In my anecdotal experience "well to do" families who have members enter military service push trying for commissions over enlisting. But not all commissioned officers come from "well to do", socially or economically, families.

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>>33597254
>>33597158
its colonel.

t. veteran

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Not necessarily. A fair percentage are.

But 0 (FUCKING ZERO) members of the enlisted corps are considered a part of the upper echelon. By choosing to be enlisted, one ensures that they will forever remain part of the lower class.

>>33601747
>can't get a joke
Hey look, the enlistedfag entered the thread.

>>33601786
That guy kind of looks like a fag. Is he wearing lipstick?

>>33597556
PTSD

I'm a warrant officer. I'm only considered a real officer when they need someone to fill a shitty officer position on a detail.

>>33597024
From personal experience, no.
Most people in America LITERALLY do not know the difference between officer and enlisted.

>>33597196

This. Right. Fucking. Here.

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>>33603173
tfw sncos post on the 4 chins

>>33597942
aussie here, what role/posting did you go to during your service?

>>33597024
Once you hit general kind of maybe.

Usually by then you have hush hush deals with corporations and the MIC and are constantly rubbing elbows with politicians.

>>33597604
That's what I'm most worried about. In API right now, so yeah sure O-3 is 3 years away, but still.

I'm an idealist at heart, and I'd love to go 20 years flying, but I cant throw people under the bus.

>>33601786
I know plenty of rich kids who went in to "prove" something.

That didnt make their money go away.

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Military or no, if you arent worth at least 20 million dollars you are riff raff.

>>33597942
what service anon?

-current adfa TO

absolutely obviously not

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>>33597367
>or places that still have a heavy militant culture.
you mean like USA?

>>33604760
>>33606210
Mostly a signals engineering specialist, went through a few commands in that, then mixed into a combat unit and my last was part of IRR, helped to set up parts of the SOER (bomb squad) and 126sq
Real key to making the most out of your time (and pay) is to become a specialist in other areas as well, I'm qualified to train in navigation, abseiling, desert survival/warfare, E&E, mountaineering, offroad vehicle ops and various personal weapons. So while you tend to have a focus, if you can expand on other things it'll take you places you might also be interested in doing later on, plus it stops you getting bored with just doing one thing. That means deployments (I did 7 overseas) and training jobs with allied nations which are quite a lot of fun- US, Malaysia, the Brits etc.

Aside from the travel, once you get out of the service its important to remember the things you learned there- be it simple things like leadership, management, projects, technical skills, team building, public speaking or heck, even just general literacy skills by being able to put pen to paper and being understood. All that stuff has some kind of analogue in the civilian sector which are highly valued and lets face it, if you can make it work in the army then you can make it work damn well anywhere.

Good luck!

>>33604568
Well, they would be the only ones loser enough to be here in their 30s

>>33606791
Thanks, Youve pretty much described my plan which is to lap up as many skills/ quals as possible and get out whenever I get bored of it.

Small world to see ADFA alumni here.

>>33597253
lol burn

>>33597196
>going back X number of centuries only rich people went to college and could become officers. Now wealthy people generally need to avoid the military to remain wealthy.

The aristocracy/upper class were generally parachuted into officer ranks, it was hard to get in on actual ability. I think that the dynasty families still like to have their sons do a tour or two as officers, it helps pad out the resume on the way to congressman and presidential candidate. Most are chicken-hawks though and take exemptions when there's a draft or just stay in business if not.

>>33597024
Here in Finland I wouldn't consider anyone under major to be any kind of noble man. There are a lot of white trash officers and that's usually the watershed.