Precision Shooting General - /PSG/

This generalfaggotry needs to stop.

>>33562198
how much match ammo do you guys keep around? I'm thinking 300?

>>33562415
Yeah I had about that, but used quite a bit. But that's ok because I'm thinking of getting a new rifle anyway

Going to post here my planned build.
>Bell and Carlson Howa 1500 Varmint/Tactical stock - OD Green w/ black spiderweb
>Harris 6-9" notched non swivel bipod for bench rest, 9-13" of the same for prone/hunting.
>Howa 1500 - .308, 1-10 twist. 24" varmint [heavy] barrel. Might cerakote it.
>Vortex PST 4-16x50 SFP MRAD scope w/ Vortex Match Rings
>Currently have a Magpul MS1 sling I might put on it.
>Also looking at the Atlas read monopod.

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I shot one of those.

Made fun with the GP Raufoss rounds.

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>>33562582

I also shot the SR-98 same day which made me want an AW. Did a lot of shooting before the Army but always wanted an AWSM from Counter Strike. I had to settle for a Steyr Scout as my first rifle!

But anyway, after shooting the SR-98 (AW), I was amazed at the accuracy and tried chasing one down. They weren't being made at the time but I could get an AT which I did.

Did a trip to Iraq this time last year and right before I left I got the good word AI were doing a limited run of L115A3s (AWSM) and spent a good portion of the first two months pay buying and setting up my AWSM. :D

I did a bit of PRS style shooting up in Darwin. Just competed at a shooting comp in Adelaide last week run by Impact Dynamics. Pretty much confirmed 308Win is a dead calibre for the competitive game so the AT will probably get a 6x47 Lap barrel spun up before the new year.

In the picture, the AXMC is my mate's. He loved my AT and bought the AXMC when I was innairaq. Fugly rifle IMO but he loves it.

Next trip might see me trying to get a new Sako or maybe even an MSR.

>>33562611
mirin hard

>>33562227
Agreed

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>>33562198
Links for /PSG/
>Group calc program
http://www.ontargetshooting.com/
>Ballistic calc and chart
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi
>Turret/ milling/ basic windage/ basic drop/ Practice
http://www.shooterready.com/lrsdemo.html
>Data books
http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/forums/5539-diy/13433967-d-i-y-data-books

>Basic forum work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rLfYLM48Ms [Embed]

>Glass basics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVF2pdHbX1M [Embed]

>Sniper 101 link for the lazy crowd.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwG-D0HjCBQ [Embed]

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>>33563393
and 2/?
>>33562198
Get it if you want it.

Can I please get a tl;dr on 6.5CM vs .308 for the following:
>purely hunting
>purely tactical
>and purely precision shooting
>is the benefit of one over the other worth the cons (i.e. pricing, ammo availability, barrel life, etc.)
>if you had to use one for all 3, all things considered, which would it be?

Seems like 6.5CM definitely wins in precision, but I'm not sure about much else.

>>33564442
It's really similar to .260 for hinting which is not bad by any means

Also consider that hunting accuracy is way more generous the competion level accuracy

>>33564551
Alright just some quick vids on Youtube and I think .308 wins for me purely on barrel life and price of ammo.

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>new bipod and muzzle brake

Aw yiss

Anyone know if the Savage 110BA series is any good. Might spring for the 338 version soon.

Any Strayans here with experience with the Lithgow LA102 in 308? I've been thinking about stepping up to centre fire and I really like the feel and quality of the rifle. I will be mostly shooting with a cheapo red-dot for now while I'll look and save up for a nice Nightforce NXS.

Mostly bench shooting but planning for a goat culling trip with my family soon.

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I am gonna trade in a Remington 770 chambered in .270 WIN for a Ruger Precision Rifle in 6.5 tomorrow. Quite stoked about getting a better rifle. Got an unnamed UTG Scope on my 770 currently that I got for free when buying my first gun, a Windham Weaponry SRC AR-15 from Classic Firearms. Anyone out there got any good attachment recommendations for this beast?

Pic related

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I have a question. What is a cost effective (sub-$200) but solid mounting solution for a scope on a precision rig? One piece mount or solid rings? All of my mounts are one the cheaper end (Aero Precision for 3-gun, ADM for 18" AR), but I'll be getting into precision shooting here soon and am doing my research.

Pic related, 18" that I'm using for marksmanship practice so I'm not wasting money on .308 or 6.5CM.

>>33568841
what sort of weapon are you gonna use?
As a rule of thumb however match your metals (base/mount) wise, don't want steel rings on alum base....

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What's the cheapest bottom metal to let my Remington 700 take mags that's worth it?
I'm trying to build an m40a3/5 clone

>>33569458
>What's the cheapest bottom metal
>I'm trying to build an m40a3/5 clone

whoo laddy, hope you're going just for looks.

http://www.milehighshooting.com/ptg-cc-m5-bottom-metal-remington-700-short-action-colt-cooper-m5-detachable-mag-bottom-metal/

>>33569498
This one is alum http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/remington-700-detachable-mag-bottom-metal-dbm/10069-remington-700-sa-oberndorf-bottom-metal-bdl-dbm.html

>>33569389
Savage 10 on a Chassis in 6.5 is the plan so far, but I may bump it up to something needing a long action. Would assume that the rail on it would match the receiver material and would stay steel... Makes sense considering differing material properties.

So that puts me into ring territory if my research is correct. Steel single-piece bases are expensive from what I've seen.

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>>33569523
Sounds like solid logic to me. I don't own any guns so what do I know.

if you're shooting/ investing in 6.5 why bother getting the LA? Do you plan to push the weapon past 6.5 's effective range?

>>33569558
Maybe? Its more of a why not thought. None of the ranges around me go past 6.5's effective range nor do I know someone with enough land for that. Really I shouldn't be considering it, but it keeps on egging me for no reason.

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>>33562198
I used to own a FFP version, DESU FFP is way better, less to think about in the long run you will be happier with. I suggest you wait a month till you can afford it. Also MRAD is easier with the math then MOA (at least I think so) other people know MOA better.... just make sure you go either MRAD turrets/ MRAD reticle or MOA/MOA

>>33569620
That's the money pit gremlin talking. ignore it and spend the money on ammo or better optics.

>>33569622
idk why DESU was put there... but it was suppose to say in my own opinion

>>33564442
6.5 wins in literally every category except maybe price. And that's rapidly changing.

.308 is cool but it's just an old round.

>>33569652
word filter.

>>33567626
That's a hell of a trade up.

>>33569646
Oh I know that. Currently budgeting for a Vortex PST Gen 2 5-25x50 and 200rnds of ammo out of the gate. That should get me through till I start reloading my own crap.

>>33562415

I like to keep between 100-200 rounds. I don't ever really shoot more then 60 rounds a trip so it works out pretty well.

simply, you first need to decide what range you want to hit at. basically are you a 1000 yard shooter or are you a mile shooter. 2nd, you need to find the round best for that, 1000 yard, 308 no issues, past that, no .308. 1 mile, 6.5 does it, 338 probably does it better (cost aside). next if you want a mile guy, vortex is shit, shit garbage, its a 65 moa elevation scope, thats a 1000 yard scope at best, at mile you want at least 90 moa on scope, a 20 moa rail bump and you can do rings that bump it more. holdover is for faggots that cant build a gun right. burris 5-25x is good option on mile gun, 1000 yard gun, put whtever the fuck you want on it pretty much.

every round goes subsonic before 1700 yards, have to deal with it with ballistics co. .338 crushes 6.5 past subsonic

>>33570124
>▶
thats what i figured and could do at a dollar a shot anyways.

How long do you wait between strings?

>>33569389
Curious as to why? Asking genuine question.

For example I used to see a lot of Leupold Mk4 rings in use on AR around 2010. Those are steel rings.

By same token, I see plenty of Seekins rings on all kinds of bases, Seekins rings being 7075 aluminum

Now, these may or may not be on "precision" rigs, some definitely geared toward it though, but I had never heard that before.

>>33571371
You 'can' do it but from personal experince and some reading, having steel rings on a alum base with heavy recoil causes shift in the rings, this is a gradual thing, lighter recoiling or softer impulse weapons don't seem to suffer from it as much. I noticed my rings lugs being sheered by recoil on my .308 after a while. ( 7 lb rifle shooting `180's pretty quickly)

>>33571371
Guy who he responded to here. I work in aerospace so my knowledge may not directly correspond in firearms theory, but the ideas shouldn't be too far off.

Different coefficients of thermal expansion could induce a point of aim shift if you shoot at a different temperature than what you sighted it in on. But the expansions/contractions are super small. Also, aluminum in contact with steel causes corrosion if proper coatings and/or protections are not followed (see galvanic corrosion). But that shouldn't be too much of an issue today. Another thing, each metal takes stress a different way and may not interact well with each other. As >>33571447 said, aluminum shears easier than steel. So mixing them up on a heavier recoiling rifle causes the aluminum component to shear, change dimensions, etc. over time.

>>33571447
What rings?

Using DNZ single piece base on .300WM T3 for several years, recoil lugs are fine.

>>33571495
Didn't consider thermal expansion aspect. Tracing that back to the rings or base however seems dubious given effects of temperature on external ballistics before even considering the rifle.

Yes, I am familiar with Galvanic corrosion, however, an electrolyte needs to be present as well so unless the rifle is dunked in salt water not sure how much this matters.

But I will do some more reading on the subject of dissimilar metal rings and bases in general.

>>33571447
To clarify, with the lighter rifle I was using steel base under alum rings.

>>33571630
If I recall correctly it was a pair of Leopold Rifleman, they were not expensive and being two part may have something to do with it as well.

Higher quality rings may fair better, but to be honest the reason I noticed wasn't because of a POI shift, it was my eye box started feeling "off" , and then upon inspecting the rifle I noticed trail marks on the base where the rings had inched back.

>>33571630
I work more in the stress corrosion cracking side of things. Where the airframe/part has been through so many cycles that the microcracks running through the part start to corrode with oxygen. But that will never happen unless you fire 1000's of rounds a year through it for 20 years or so.

And exactly on the thermal expansions. The shift caused by it would be negligible when compared to the effect on ballistics. The only part that expansion may be in effect is if your rifle is stored at a largely different temperature than when you start taking shots (say 30*F). Shooting before the temperatures of the parts equalize from a large temp change may result in a large shift. But that would effect everything else on the rifle here too.

Essentially, hairs are being split here. It really shouldn't matter, but there may/may not be some truth to the old theories about mixing metals.

>>33571794
>>33571630

a thought occurred to me, if you were using a canted base, (say 20 MOA) and lowwer quaility rings, ( or for sake of argument alum rings move against steel) wouldn't there be a down ward point of impact shift due to the optics being backed against the mount ?

uh....

if we pretend the LOS is a bar, and the cross hair is a fulcrum, and LOS stays on the same target, if we slide the fulcrum back, we've changed the angle of the LOS, even just a smidgen, but enough to notice.

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>>33571975
I get what you are saying, but I don't think that may be true. Say your aimpoint vector is 1.5" higher than a canted rail and aligned in parallel (as it should be with noncanted mounts or rings). If it shifts, its shifting along the vector of the canted rail, thus the impact point will not change even thought the X and Y positioning has shifted.

However, a canted base will shift as the aim vector is not parallel with the canted base.

>>33571975
Unless considering extreme distances, or extreme ring shift (as in, to the point where it's beyond painfully obvious)

Short answer no.

At least, based on what I have seen with regards to MPBR calculations and other dope equations involving height over bore on a "x"-MOA base where you grab your HOB number makes negligible difference downrange.

>>33571777
Poor representation of aluminum rings best suited for a .22

Not a personal knock on you. As you already mentioned, Leupold rifleman rings are nothing to write home about with regards to quality.

>>33569622
I concur. You're already spending over 1 grand on a scope, you might as well go all the way.

>>33571282

I usually go out to shoot once about every two or three weeks. and I usually buy like 80-120 rounds online when I start to run low. best deal I can usually find is $.89/round.

>>33572211
non-taken, no sense being butt hurt for facts.
All I can do is relay my experience on the off chance it has a larger implications.

However , not knowing the math behind HOB and what not, the reason I believe my "fulcrum" metaphor is significant is the fact small shifts up down left and right internally are enough to be noticed at 100 meters I.E .25"@100 yards. If theses small movements can impact our point of aim, why can't this shift as well on the angled mounts? we might only be talking 3/4" an inch , but its measurable.


Again I could be talking out my ass.

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>>33572273
POI not POA my bad.

>>33572273
I believe zero distance needs to be considered as well.

If the reticle was mechanically centered corresponding to whatever zero that built in 20moa corresponds to (let's just say for sake of argument 20" high at 100)

Or, if the scope has enough elevation adjustment (call it 25moa) and is zeroed at 100m

Pretty sure that would have significant effect on any shift in the rigs

At this point it's just autism though

>>33572318
Yeah, but this thread is about autism.

vortex match rings vs vortex standard rings with gunsmith lapping.
Which one wins?

>>33574115
With What bases? One piece, two, or integrated?

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Do you guys think this is worth the money?

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/635894551

>>33574702
>Do you guys think this is worth the money?

Don't know price-wise since I'm not american, but I would NOT trust it to buy it blindly without checking it out.

A friend of mine bought at 5R factory new and it literally had a chip of metal missing in the chamber and a flaw in the bolt. 5R is supposed to be "high tier" and their QC still sucks balls.

So fine if you want a Remington but at least verify its condition before you buy it, or get SOLID warranty from the seller.

>>33574702
Definitely not for that price.

>>33562434
>MRAD scope
>SFP
but why. SFP has its good points but if you're not gonna be ranging with it get it in MOA for the finer adjustment.

>>33574725
He'll send me all the pictures I want. So far everything looks up and up.

>>33574735
And the stock is 1500 the action and barrel is about another 1500, the Harris bipod and accushot monopod is ~300. The scope is 600-700, the mounting is ~100 and there's 80 or so in the two extra mags.

>>33574759
It's a 6-24x50 moa scope with 1/8 moa adjustments

>>33574759
Woops sorry I thought you were replying to the gun broker post

>>33574773
Then why didn't you say that instead of
>Vortex PST 4-16x50 SFP MRAD scope w/ Vortex Match Rings
Do you know what MRAD stands for? It stands for milliradian.

>>33574768
> Brand New MSRP prices
> Used rifle with components you might not want at all

A new factory 5R rifle can be found for ~10t0. I wouldn't use that scope. You can even get a factory new SSG 04 for 2,200 and put a better scope on it, and it wouldn't have been touched by Freedom Group or Bubba.

>>33564872
Let me guess, they told you 1500 rounds was the barrel life of 6.5CM?

>>33575370
Actually a few other sources say up to 2500.
.308 is apparently 5000 or so.

I'm happy to be convinced either way, I'm not biased for either one, except the objectively better price/availability of .308 here.
I want a howa 1500, and the .308 and 6.5CM have the same barrel lengths, both available as varmint barrels, at the same price

>>33574759
$300 cheaper.
Also SFP seems easy in theory right?
1 increment = 1 MRAD at full power
1 increment = 2 MRAD at half power

I also work in meters, and MRADs work a lot better for meters than MOA does.

>>33574784
I am not that poster

>>33575226
It's a brand new unfired build.

>>33575226
I honestly have had no issues with Nikon SFD scopes out to ranges of 800-1000(longest range I have near by is 1k)

As is for a new rifle build it's not that bad.

It's a 24" 5r barrel with a 700p action. So it had the same coating on the barrel they use for the LEO and Mil models. As well as having the police trigger vs the x-mark pro and "tactical" bolt knob.

The stock is the newest accuracy international AICS AX stock system which does fold as well.

The scope is not bad for 308, it is a fine cross-hair with dot vs having some stupid bdc, but its better that way. You'll need a kestrel and a good chronograph if you want this rifle.

The bipod and monopod is a nice touch and the extra magazines are a plus.

But as is it's a decent build, has room to improve.

Honestly get it, shoot out the first barrel and then when it's time to replace it, have the action trued and get a better barrel if you want. As well as you can get a nightforce or Vortex Razer HD if you really want.

>>33574759
>>33575504

At 100m, 1 MOA= Roughly 28mm. 500m, 1 MOA is about
MOA turrets are 1/4 MOA, so 1 click = 7mm or so
At 100m, 1 MRAD = 1000mm
Turrets are usually 1/10 MRAD, so 1 click = 10mm at 100m.

We're talking a cunt hair's worth of difference, at the expense of not having a unit of measurement system I have lived with my whole life.