what went wrong? why didn't it take off?

>>33541704
The Irish

>>33541704
It was garbage.

>>33541704
Biggest one would probably be timing. US spent a ton of money on M16 adoption and improvements, then had a massive surplus of weapons and parts. Americans don't want them, 3rd worlders can buy surplus M16A1s, other nations have no need for a poverty rifle.

There's a reason so many "new" designs have a strong internal resemblance to the AR-18.

>>33541704

Cause it's a shit.

>>33541704
Market saturation by AR-15 and AK.

>>33541981
Is it because you can't have a short stroke gas piston with a multi lug bolt without being compared to the AR-18?

>>33542089
This. She was too late for the game and too underdeveloped.

>>33541704
It was built and marketed as an affordable option to the M16. They were literally planning on just sending the tooling, parts, and a few technicians to just get things running and then they were expected to keep things going on their own. However as it turns out just buying an M16 is only slightly more expensive at best and also there is another rifle that is famous from the 20th century that is ubiquitous amongst small nations for being cheap and reliable that overshadowed it. Otherwise it is a pretty cool design that several firearms have copied its recoil system that are being manufactured today or even in the 1970's and early 80's...the L85 comes to mind but they fucked it up.

Personally if someone could make an affordable reproduction that used AR mags I would pick one up in a heartbeat.

>>33541704
Because the AR15 was just so much better.
The original AR18 is more like a proof of concept for it's action, and was a little bit halfbaked in a few senses.

>>33541981
>There's a reason so many "new" designs have a strong internal resemblance to the AR-18.
Because the action is pretty simple and functional, you can have the same consistent lockup as with an AR15 (because you have the same style of radial locking lugs), so a bit of a better accuracy potential.

Piston allows for a bit more rapid fire (doesn't get hot as fast), and dumb goons thinks it lets the gun shoot longer without cleaning (it actually doesn't). It has the advantage of being nicer to suppress but that's seriously not a worthwhile concern for 99% of soldiers.

It doesn't have a buffer in the stock, so people who think folding stocks actually matter for regular infantry rifles can have them.

It's a solid way to make a rifle, but I personally think the AR15 is just way better for having it's action and recoil be 100% inline with the bore, while having a significantly lighter gas system.

>>33542089
Was there even a ready supply of AKs in the US back when Armalite was hawking the AR180? I genuinely don't know.

>>33542102
kek, nigger it's because they're copying the AR18 upper and just modifying it a bit, usually adding reinforcements, ambi shit, rails, etc.

>>33542102
>>33542102
Yeah, also not having the main spring extending into a buffer tube that hangs awkwardly off the back of the receiver. Also why do so guns go with a short strike piston instead of a long stroke?

F2000
SCAR
VHS
SA80
G36
AUG

All short stroke

>>33542218
>also not having the main spring extending into a buffer tube that hangs awkwardly off the back of the receiver
Something that allows you to have a very soft recoil impulse that's completely inline, it's not there without reason, it actually does something.

>Also why do so guns go with a short strike piston instead of a long stroke?
Short-stroke is lighter and you have a lot less mass moving at a time when the action is cycling.

>>33542111
>affordable reproduction
I've heard some guys are trying to reverse-engineer the manufacturing process for the upper.

The AR-18 is a marvel of pre-CNC engineering. The assembly of the barrel, trunnion, and upper can't be replicated in a cost-effective manner, the manufacturing process is basically lost technology.

>>33542248
>the manufacturing process is basically lost technology
It's fucking stamped and bent sheet steel, the upper receiver itself is pretty much a square tube with some cutouts.

Also failing that, you could very easily stamp a much stronger and better receiver, because that shit was a bit brittle and weak (particularly the lower)

>>33542187
Copying in the loosest sense, maybe. Like having an upper receiver is copying.

>>33542285
>It's fucking stamped and bent sheet steel
I'm referring to how the trunnion is mated to the upper

>Brittle lower
Nodak spud basically has that locked down with their NDS-18 lower

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>>33542298
Now all we need are uppers.

>>33542298
The nodak lower only works with the ar180b. They have said the eventual goal is to make enough parts for a complete gun, but who knows

>>33542791
>only works with the ar180b
I didn't think there was any significant difference in the dimensions between the 180 and the 180b

Leave it to Armalite to fuck that up

>>33542800
It was probably the result of ATF bitching.

>>33542791
>>33542780
>>33542298
>machined aluminum lower
So now we're back at square one, the receiver was supposed to be really easy to make, hence stamped steel.

- AR-15 pattern had already been formally adopted by U.S. and forced down NATO's throat
- Cheap stampshit design proved unattractive to economically advanced nations
- Poorfag third/second worlders were already being either supplied by NATO's AR-15s or supplied by COMENOC's AKs and didn't need it
- Initial domestic production never got off the ground innaUS, no domestic civilian market
- only people who needed it were 1st World poorfags not supported by NATO, i.e. non-Sovereign States

I don't know, I guess there was some room for the AR-18 to take off in the nominally NATO-backed Pacific Rim countries, but the only country economically strong enough to do so was Japan and they were cucked out of their military

>>33545713
Japan hates foreign procurements and tries to make their own arms wherever possible. Howa did make AR-180s for a time, and that experience was put to use to make a domestic derivative, but licensed production was never an option for something as simple as a firearm.

>>33545713
The Phillippines actually were going to start producing it but that shit fell apart when Marcos got deposed.

>>33545685
The AR-18 is lost technology at this point. AFAIK, the tooling doesn't exist so they had to reverse engineer the gun.

>>33548521
That's not what lost technology is you tard. That's literally as retarded as the people who think StG44s can't be reproduced accurately.
"Nobody makes the machines commercially" =/= "we have lost all knowledge of the technology"

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>>33542791
They work for both, you just need to cut out a little off the preban upper and you need a few 180b lower parts. Ar180s.com was selling the lpk for a while. Nodak will give you a template for the parts to cut. The lowers are real nice, but there's a noticeable gap between the upper and lower.

I have a Sterling and a 180B, I want to either sell the B (traded a $600 bushmaster for it) or have it cut down to 13" and some muzzle brake pinned for a bootleg AR180S

>>33549416
Sterlings are perfectly good AR-18s

>>33541918

Ahahahahahahahahahahshahs
Top kek

>>33549674
Yeah, I don't have anything wrong with mine. Apparently the locking point for the stock broke off at some point and someone brazed it back on but it doesn't seem weaker. I need more mags, though.

>>33541704

Are piston ARs the spiritual ancestor to the AR-18?

>>33549683
That's a common complaint with the AR-18, don't worry.

>>33541704
The AR-15 family was already adopted by America and anybody who they felt like giving it to or selling it to at the friend price. Same with the AK and the Soviets. Also, a bunch of countries more or less copied it with a few alterations to make it not look like a poorfag's rifle.

The Mini-14 also failed for similar reasons, though I can't help but think it is a more expensive gun to manufacture than an AR-18.

>>33549738
>Mini-14
>failure

wut

>>33541704
Because it was a poorfag gun intended for poorfag militaries from poorfag nations that only had stamping machines. It was shit and the AR15 is better in ever conceivable way.

>>33542818
nah, it was a case of "no plans whatsoever"
they actually forgot how to make the AR-180 and there were no real detailed drawings

>>33550188

I own two 180s and I agree. Countries who would want one would probably be in NATO and have access to the machinery needed to make M16s or could buy them directly from the US. Shit countries who wanted a stamped gun rightfully went for the proven AK design. This left no real market.

>>33541704
looks like a gun someone built with parts from a junkyard, kinda like that Swedish monstrosity that battle rifle fags jack off to.

>>33549750
They had big plans for it, it ended up being a Fudd-compatible civilian rifle.

>>33550201
Well at least the AR-18 design has a tonne of positives to it, which is why it has so many derivatives nowadays.

>>33545713
"Forced down NATO's throat." That's interesting. Let's look at who's adopted AR-15 pattern rifles and carbines in and around NATO: Israel (now replaced by the Tavor), Denmark, Canada, Netherlands, maybe South Korea and Greece? Yeah, there are a bunch of shitty sand countries that use largely surplus US M16s or occasionally license-made ones, but those are generally smaller numbers and they're backward shitholes so they almost don't count. Now, France has adopted the HK416 and fuck knows what Germany is going to replace the G36 with (can't remember if they announced it). If you consider the HK416 another AR15/M16 variant or knockoff, which I suppose short stroke piston ARs are, then quite a few more Euro countries do use or are transitioning to ARs.

Yet, there are a shit ton of countries that have adopted rifles based substantially off of the AR-18. Basically most of the rifles >>33542218 listed

>>33542218
Why does nobody remember to list the Beretta ARX 160? :(

>>33549683
>I need more mags, though
Modify some AR mags.

>>33550274
He meant historically you stupid twat. Dozens of Western bloc nations had AR15s shoveled into them by either direct joint deals with the USM or by Congressional backdoor supply programs, which effectively flooded the market and pushed out the cheaper easier-to-produce AR-18 as Stoner had envisioned it. Stop being so butthurt

>>33550290
Because it's not a milspec rifle and therefore irrelevant to the larger discussion of the AR-18's adoption?

>>33551267
Yes it is!

Probably because it's overrated hype shit that presented an alright idea in a platform that needed a lot of improvement to actually be a military-spec rifle rather than just some cheap throwaway gun.

>>33551267
Are you retarded?

>>33551267
>Because it's not a milspec rifle

>>33551432
>>33552358
>>33552963
>Are you retarded
Apparently, because I was only familiar with the civilian version as of the time of that post.
Further proving that everyone indeed forgets the ARX160
Though the issue is the same, it's not the AR-18 concept or package that Stoner envisioned, design- and battlefield intent-wise.

>>33553912
The civilian version is called the ARX-100, which is still inside of military spec barring the lack of full auto. The only other difference between the military and civilian model is that the military model's sights are molded into the receiver whereas on the civilian model they're attached via rail so that they can be replaced.

Also bolt carrier design is pretty similar to that of the ARX, except it uses an extended carrier rather than a multiple piece piston.

>>33553952
Neat.
Gotta say though, thing looks like an ungodly Mengelesque fusion of an MP5 lower with a SCAR upper and foregrip. Even has an impotent little Ugg boot stock.

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>>33550253
I just hate how ruger killed the SAM by beating them to the punch at a lower price.

>>33552358
The Terminator used it so it must be good

>>33542182
>folding stock isnt useful for when you're in a vehicle
pls get a trip so i can filter you

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It took off.
>in some places

My uncle has one. its a pretty great gun.

>Armalite got fucked by colt and slowly after goes down the tubes
>introduced after the m16 was adopted and the US gov just spent a shit ton on it already
>its has caught on nigger

>>33555085
Doesn't seem to fucking bother most people in the US or Canadian armed forces, the stock collapses well enough, and regular vehicle crew aren't even issued long guns AFAIK

>>33542248
>I've heard some guys are trying to reverse-engineer the manufacturing process for the upper
http://gunlab.net/ar-180/

>>33555756
Shid wrong link
http://gunlab.net/category/ar180/

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Daewoo is best

>>33541704
It's a poor man's AR15.

>>33555996
ar-180s are just as if not more expensive than a better ar-15 so

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>>33541704
Malaysia did use them tho

>>33556082
The free market fixed the price of AR15's over the decades due to the state of the American small arms industry.


CNC machining aluminum forgings clamped into jigs costs much less than the man hours required for stamping and hand fitting AR-18's.

This is one of the main reasons why American Made AK's are pretty much garbage.

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Why do all modern rifles have the same shitty 7 square lug bolt design, when guns like the Leader worked just as well with a cheaper and probably stronger triangular bolt?

>>33549416
How much for the B?

>>33556178
Well why invest money in making a good AK when making a good AR is much easier and is guaranteed to sell?

It's tough competing with some foreign company that's been built on some old Combloc arsenal, and has all kinds of tooling, material and expertise, essentially not paying most of the cost of it (well, not personally).

Pretty much the only viable American AKs are custom builds by places like Krebs

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>>33556225
seven locking lugs are mechanically more accurate than three.

Stress is distributed between the locking lugs better when there are more of them.

the unlock of a three lug bolt also requires a sixty degree bolt turn versus the AR's thirty.

>>33556394
Thank you for reinforcing my statement.

Kalashnikovs and other stamped guns are still very much a product of the old world/school tool and die makers. Every operation had its own machine and jig and went along an assembly line.

>>33556453
I kind of wonder if you could make an AK receiver by investment casting.

>>33549750
Forgive me, I meant as a military rifle. It has obviously succeeded as a civilian firearm and achieved moderate success with police.