Teach me about the Wehrmacht

overrated army that massacred millions of civilians.

>>33525118
Looks like they missed one of (((you)))

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>>33525130
couldnt even beat starving russian peasants LOL

>>33525118
Not trying to shill for them. I just want to better understand them.

I genuinely feel bad for some of the Wehrmacht old guard, they had to know Hitler was going to fuck everything up.

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>what were the jargon or terms they used?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_German_military_terms

Alles klar?

>>33525424
Nein, wikipedia ist verboten

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>>33525442
Wieso?

>>33525118
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8eJ2kxSXmU

so what

>Where did rations come from?
GULASCHKANONE

they enjoyed meth

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>>33525094
read first hand accounts by the men who served. That is always the most interesting.

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>>33525094
fascinating stories

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>>33525094
Read "In Deadly Combat". Very excellent read. Not preachy or deceptive at all.

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>>33525094
Didn't they hate the ss

>>33525094
>Where did the individual man get his supplies and rations from?

Meat train and cooking company based on a book about some killings in ukraine.

>>33527858
Looks very Aryan to me. A central Asian volunteer unit?

>>33525094
ITT:
Wehraboos and Mossad trolls fighting

>>33525094
Looks like a younger jurgen prochnow.

>>33529522
My japanese is really shitty but it seems he's part of the japanese delegation to Finland (man to the right is finnish, left is german, italy is probably hiding behind the house) as part of an axis field trip up there for whatever reason.

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My finnish isnt much better:
Saksan,Italian,Japanin,Unkarin ja Romanian sotilasasiamiesten vierailu Uhtuan suunnalla.Everstiluutnantti Ravila oppaana Röhön tienvarrella olevissa kenttävartioissa. Uhtuan suunta

I have read rather a number of books on the subject, and it is a pretty big subject. Why don't you pinpoint one part of life as a Wehrmacht soldier and then we poke into that? Life in the field, life in barracks, weapons, uniforms, relations to civilians, medical, routines, transport, political, training, supplies - there was more to it than being handed a rifle. A lot more.

>>33528198
is there a dagoboo chart for EYEtalians

>>33529662
Visit of the german, italian, japanese, hungarian and romanian military attaches around Uhtua. Lieutenant colonel Ravila acting as a guide to the outposts along the Röhö road.

>>33529669
I'm most interested in life in the field and urban combat

>>33525094
>much better, teach me how to teach myself. I want to know as much as I can about the infantry
>teach me to teach myself

You know how to read. Crack a fucking book. War happened before you came to life, before you sucked your Mom's tit.

The reality is young men don't listen, I didn't. The Infantry is a cruel mistress.

>>33525156
>couldnt even beat starving russian peasants LOL
They killed literally millions of them until they drowned them in their dying bodies.

>>33530076
I'm asking what books and sources I should look for, and what information that /k/ already has gleaned from a wide variety of sources.

>>33525094
>ANY information is useful and appreciated.

Perfect Storms documentary did a pretty good episod eof what the Nazi's faced at Moscow. Brutally cold conditions coupled with no winter clothing and equipment just not meant for witner fighting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF-CxjnFrco

>>33530236

Well,
- Soldier in the Waffen SS by Johann Voss
- Eastern Front Sniper by Mathias Kaltenegger
- Stalingrad by Anthony Beevor
- Panzer Commander by Hans von Luck
- The Infantry attacks! by Erwin Rommel

Also keep your gaze wide enough to compare the German perspective with other soldiers of the period. The impression you get from reading how Germans were thinking back then, changes once you also understand the mindset of a Frenchman, a Brit or a Pole.

>>33530335
Thanks
>>33530361
Yeah I think that's pretty important

>>33530361

Can you provide examples of this?

>>33529982

Right. I'll try to focus on the field for a few posts.

Food, for starters. The German soldier was in theory one of the best fed soldiers of his time. Logistics were based on the large scale experiences of every war back to the Napoleonic wars and the supply train of every unit was massive. The daily ration was based on basics like fresh bread, iron rations in the pack, a considerable variety of 'additions' like chocolate, tea, sugar, jam, canned meats, canned fish, fat, butter, cigarettes and so on. The supply of each product type varied; instead of butter you could get fat, oil, margarine. The cooks were in charge of doling out this stuff every day and they of course ran the field kitchen where the warm dinner and the bread came from. Stew was the basic warm meal but what it consisted of varied enormously. Also the taste was less than fantastic as production was for volume.

Soldiers got tired of army food soon enough, and the supply train was not dependable, so every soldier was always on the lookout for more. They'd plunders farm and homes, enemy supplies, steal from the cooks, and their Reichmarks could not be denied in any stores so where plundering was not allowed they'd empty stores for chocolate, jam and so on. A soldier was lean, but not by his own choice.

>>33530394
>>33530335
Adding on to this, anything by Based Beevor.

>>33530399

Well, let's take something simple. Nazi Germany are often 'those murdering racists'. Open the wrong comic book or see the wrong movie or read the wrong fiction book and you start imagining a common Wehrmacht infantry soldier as someone gutting jew babies for breakfast.

On a more realistic level, the average German was dealing with the world he was living in. He was seeing the gypsies and the jews in his own streets and forming opinions accordingly. Some of those opinions would be racist. But then go to Madrid, go to London, go to New York or Dallas in the same time period, and take a look at the general population's attitude toward the local minorities.

We can go on. Comparing attitudes regarding rape, homosexuality, sterilization, treatment of people with Downs etc. Those were ugly times. Nazi govt went further to act on these sentiments than most. But the common soldier's opinions were those of their time, not some evil machinations.

>>33530456

A few more on food. A soldier's gear in peacetime was the contents of his locker, which contained more uniform sets than any other of his time. There as a work uniform, a dress uniform, a field uniform, plus a cold weather uniform consisting of a heavy but unstuffed coat and a sweater. At the outbreak of war much of this gear was no longer issued, like dress uniform or work fatigues. And all the gear not worn was placed in a bag so tightly packaged that you would have trouble fitting in an extra spoon. This set involved sane and not so sane things, like polished shoes for leave. Yet the pack was supposed to be kept with the supply train. In the field the basic pack was the 'breadbag', a shoulder bag which contained a myriad of practical items but had room for about half a bread and other small items too. In this bag went what food the soldier could hang on to.
The canteen, about 0.75l iirc, hung on the outside and drinking from it was not always allowed unless on direct order. Many soldiers would also keep their food can on their belts.

>>33530631

Water in the field was a rigorous issue. A German infantry division, without losses, held about 13 000 soldiers. They all needed drinking water and water is not always easy to locate. Consider the endless marches through dry eastern front lands. Once a source was found, like a river or a lake, the unit veterinarian had to take test of the water to check for cholera, poison, acridity, signs of rotting corpses upstream, and so on. Pretty modern really, except the soldier could only hope to have his canteen filled once per day and would be expected to march on that from morning to nightfall.

Cooking the water for all these people was not an option. It might at best get sieved through a large filter, and some cleansing chemicals thrown in.

>>33530541


I meant more what you mean about

"changes once you also understand the mindset of a Frenchman, a Brit or a Pole."

Maybe there is a miscommunication here.

>>33530695

Oh, and I forgot. 13 000 thirsty soldiers and maybe 1500-2000 thirsty mules and horses.

>>33530456
Not OP, but what was life like in garrison?

>>33530697

Okay, can do.
German soldier: we have wounded pride to restore, let's take charge of Europe again. Also communists have marched in our streets for the last 20 years, let's fill theirs.
British soldier: hey what's this shit, ruling the world is OUR privilege. But fine, let's go beat the shit out of the Italians who could not win over the Ethiopians.
French soldier: I have farming to do, my family have already lost the two previous generations to fighting the Boche and half the schools are empty, I am literally knee deep in our own communists and facist, and now you want me to pick up granddads rifle and fight the Boche AGAIN?
Italian soldier: We have very nice uniforms! And an asshole for president! Please don't send us out to fight for things we are not interested in!
Polish soldier: I don't care if I have to fight you bastards from a horseback, a biplane, an antique tank or a fucking camel. But I will.
Finnish soldier: Who are we fighting this week anyway? Not that I care, as long as my homeland is free.
Norwegian soldier: Okay, I will fight. Got a coin I can flip and decide which side to fight with?
American soldier: Who's winning the Baseball series this year?
Russian soldier: Shout a little louder, I have an uncle in Vladivostok who didn't hear you. Gimme the Mosin and the vodka and piss off, I'll do as I am told.

>>33525118
This isn't a thread about the Red Army

>>33530828

Germans in garrison have always been a special breed. It's practically the definition of order, organization and discipline. But there's boot camp garrison, regular garrison and occupied country garrison. And garrison life in one occupied land could be very much different from in another.

Generally though, garrison life meant long workdays, regular chores, organized evening activities like sport and shows, and short leaves on schedule. Disciplined was upheld on every level and punishments could be harsh. But if you got away with garrison duty while others were fighting on the front, you was lucky. Such tasks would often be preferred for lower quality troops like 'police' units.

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>>33530335
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_German_military_terms

And his Book.

>>33531216
What was boot camp like?

"kettenhunde" - 'chain dogs', MP
'makaronis' - Italians
'himmelfahrtkommando' - suicidal unit
and my favorite 'kuchebulle', 'kitchen ball', cook

>>33531291

Different from most other countries. For one thing general army service was based on conscription; you could volunteer early and get a chance to choose where to serve. So you got all sorts of people. But also every last conscript had already served their time in the Work Service, which trained everyone in discipline and excercise and hard work and long days. So your average fresh soldier arrived reasonably fit, healthy, ready to take orders and understanding their place in the system.

Since we are talking about Germany, I need to point out that these young men did not arrive with a lot of political ballast from the system and they were not given much of it during boot camp either beyond the usual nationalistic speeches. As the war progressed enough for the previously Hitlerjugend to take up arns, this changed - but most of those HJ were sent straight to the SS, and this was very late in the war. SS were an entirely different bunch, of course.

So, your average Wehrmacht guy could be a nazi. Or a commie. Or some religious minority. It really did not matter as long as you followed orders. It is claimed that Rommel refused to weed out the jews in his ranks - and he was one of the most nazi leaders in Wehrmacht, for a while anyway.

>>33528198
FUCK I'M A OUIABOO

>>33525118
fpbp

>>33531291

Also there is this - Germany had had a radical change in their approach to training soldiers, starting about 1916 or the middle of WW1. The old school of making mindless cattle, the 'cadaver discipline', had failed and great numbers of soldiers had fallen. But around that time a few clever new top officers built new tactics around the recent experiences. Which among many other details meant encouraging all soldiers to be inventive and aggressive in the way they kept and took areas. This new school of thinking influenced the small post-ww1 army and they are in reality the tactics armies use today.

So boot camp was far more than being dragged from task to task. Results were measures, initiative was rewarded. You deserved the ranks your gained.

>>33531389
Would you be able to describe a typical day in boot, occupied garrison, and Germany proper garrison?

>>33530335
>Forgetting "The Forgotten Soldier" By Guy Sajer

An actually good Wehrmacht thread with close to no political bs? Now I've seen it all!
Thanks to that one guy dumping info, it's people like you that keep me coming back to this site.

>>33531630

Of the documentary books I have read about German soldiers of ww2, there's fairly little space used on those periods in their experiences. Boot camp life seems to have been, by and large, rather similar to what we have today. Lots of running, lots of rules, but predictable. Some of the recruits in 1940 might well recall going hungry every day as kids; many would come from farming villages and be accustomed to hard work. School and health systems in Germany were good too, prewar that is. Becoming a soldier was a honor for many. Unless you was by nature a troublemaker your boot camp would be a good experience.

In a Germany proper garrison, everyone in town would be your own countrymen. With money in your pocket you'd be popular in the stores, and as any garrison town knows - popular with the girls. Even if you had to work your ass off with boring duties all day it was a good life. Still is.

A garrison in an occupied country on the other hand introduced a whole new set of elements, even if your tasks remained the same. I'll differ between a 'benign' occupation and a 'ruthless' one.

Let's say your garrison was in the Netherlands. A country where the locals were partly positive to Germany, and partly negative. By benign I don't mean that the local were happy, but that the German Overkommando had ordered a lenient treatment. Small confrontations by the locals were to be brushed off and eventual punishments either kept non-deadly or be hidden away. With this system in place, a German soldier raping a Dutch woman could be summarily executed. The soldiers were rigidly checked from disturbing local law and order. The bonus for the soldiers was of course a much more welcome life outside the garrison, with girlfriends and drinking and a bit of black market purchases.

I need to add that German soldiers in an occupied country did not get extra payrates. But they did get an artificial exchange rate for local valuta, which made it possible to buy more stuff than you could at home. Of course with most stuff getting rationed eventually even that money could not buy from an empty shelf, but it was a bonus while it lasted.

There's two more types of garrison that need to be mentioned.

In the big cities the occupants could find suitable garrison buildings easily enough. In small towns and villages it was different. There the Germans had a billeting system, which they were not alone in having btw. Essentially they partly required sleeping space in private homes, maybe 2-4 soldiers in a normal home which meant the locals were sleeping on the floor. Other times they simply required the whole house, and gave it back when the unit moved on. This must have made for many awkward social evenings but I understand it could also mean those families were unofficially compensated by the soldiers - food, cigarettes etc. You sleep better when the others in the house don't want to cut your throat.

Last variation I can think of right now. Soldiers who had earned or needed a break from field service, perhaps nursing some minor wounds, were not sent home but to a 'soldier home' in the back areas. For a few days at least. There would be warm showers, some medical checkups, food and beer, safety, clean beds, delousing, even nurses.

More field life? Winter war is a good one if anyone's interested.

Interesting thread, thank you anons for the info

one trend i noticed when reading memoirs is that they were always outnumbered. now, everyone knows that germans have a tradition of fighting against superior numbers, but on the eastern front shit was on the next level. sites of vital tactical importance were often held by a couple of squads of infantry with (if they were lucky) some armour in support. the front was so large that the germans had to min-max the shit out of it, leaving most of the non-crucial areas extremely short on support and manpower (or so i have gathered). often, the aforementioned two or so squads of infantry would have to hold out against often well-planned assaults by superior red army units (from companies all the way up to brigades, often with heavy armour and artillery support). The way i see it, this is partly one of the reasons why german tanks failed so often (apart from general unreliability stemming from a rushed development cycle). they had to repel breakthroughs at quite an extensive front, as the soviets didn't just attack a single point like morons. naturally, a few infantrymen couldn't hold off an armoured platoon, so this meant that german armour had to drive all over the place, which place enormous strain on the running gear, tracks and the engine.

start here, OP
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Wehrmacht

The Severity Order or Reichenau Order was the name given to an order promulgated within the German Sixth Army on the Eastern Front during World War II by Field Marshal Walther von Reichenau on 10 October 1941.[1]
Walter von Reichenau

It said, in part:

...The most important objective of this campaign against the Jewish-Bolshevik system is the complete destruction of its sources of power and the extermination of the Asiatic influence in European civilization. ... In this eastern theatre, the soldier is not only a man fighting in accordance with the rules of the art of war, but also the ruthless standard bearer of a national conception. ... For this reason the soldier must learn fully to appreciate the necessity for the severe but just retribution that must be meted out to the subhuman species of Jewry. ...

This infamous order paved the way for mass murder of Jews. All Jews were henceforth to be treated as de facto partisans, and commanders were directed that they be either summarily shot or handed over to the Einsatzgruppen execution squads of the SS-Totenkopfverbände as the situation dictated.

Upon hearing of the Severity Order, Reichenau's superior Field Marshal Gerd von Rundstedt expressed "complete agreement" with it, and sent out a circular to all of the Army generals under his command urging them to send out their own versions of the Severity Order, which would impress upon the troops the need to exterminate Jews

>>33531709
listen to this nigga.

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>>33525094
so many red flags
>tripfag
>post a SS soldier
>day-to-day.. you better not reenact you fag

>>33532455
>Walter von Reichenau

Reichenau was a right bastard politically and no one's defending him or what he stood for. But saying that all 15 million German soldiers under him stood for his values is like saying every American soldier today is a Trump fan. Or an Obama fan, a year ago.

>>33532510
The issue is that extermination was a main policy of the Wehrmacht, not that there weren't idiots in the army who didn't get what the 3rd Reich was about.

>>33532618

I can buy that. But I doubt that soldiers were at any point told that if they didn't like that policy they were free to return their gear and go home.

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Just to keep the thread alive.

One small part of a German soldier's life was his footwear. Shoes and boots obviously, but there was also what was inside. There are three versions worth mentioning; the ancient footcloth which was wrapped around the foot in a reglementary fashion, the woolen sock, and a thicker sock which was long and used in particular with the lower boots. I do not think that washing was an option offered by the supply chain. The socks who wore holes were darned by the soldiers themselves and a sewing kit was supplied for such. Considering that german period shoes had no inner sole, the state of a soldier's socks or footcloths were vital to his health.

>>33533222
>4
>6

Fucking Finns can't even count right.

Then there's the boot, of course. The tall marching jackboot, as old as the Napoleonic wars, is of course iconic. But it changed a lot from the high wide 'knochebecher' (bone cup) of ww1. By the time of the late 1930s the sewing had changed, the shape narrowed and it had gotten a bit shorter. It also had heavy nails underneath and boot irons back and in front. It took however only a year or so of warfare and more limited access to quality leather for the boot to be shortened down an inch, and then another inch a little later. Then the whole boot was discarded in favor of a laced boot which cost even less leather.

There was also specialty boots; the mountain hunters - gebirgsjaeger - had a solid laced boot with extra side reinforcements to help with the climbing. And guards in cold areas got some intensely thick wood and fibre boots to pull on for their guard duty shift. They weigh a ton and you can't run in them at any cost. There are also some boot variations where the upper shaft is made of thick wool fibre like the Russian valenki boots, which were made for heat increasion and again to save leather.

Finally there's the light lace shoes, which were part of the kit but probably has no value in the field. I assume they were only used on leave.

Oh, and officers lived in another world of course. They wore rather more elegant riding boots. But I suspect you will find more photos of them in cities, offices and formal situations than in the field. Especially in the second half of the war.

Also, boots were not issued en bloc after boot camp. One got a new pair of whatever was on stock once the old pair was worn out, which added to the diversity of uniform variations within even the smallest unit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rommel_myth

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Another little fragment of the Lander's life. Hair. Some may have noticed that German soldiers have fairly odd haircuts. And the regulation was indeed short in the back and something approaching sidecuts. But they allowed the hair on top to be fairly long, even if it had to be worn backwards. Why? Helmets. The steel hat was heavy and on the inside was only an unpadded leather liner. The wearer's hair was essentially the only thing making it sufferable.

Germans and Russians alike had big trouble with lice in the field. The Russians solved this by shaving off all hair off everyone, at least on the recruits. For Germans, there was the lice comb and the lice powder. It worked only so-so. But each company had its own hairdresser in the staff and whenever there was a chance, someone was getting a haircut.

>>33531102
underrated post

>>33533686
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rommel_myth

Yes, what? No one is saying he was an angel or an icon. Or a fantastic strategist. For my part I consider him to have fostered a good esprit the corps within his unit, to have been daring if reckless, to have written an important book on infantry warfare and to have performed his Afrika warfare in a decent way - the record was written by his enemies and they did not hate him afterwards.

>>33533775
B-but Nazis can't be decent human beings!

>>33525094
Read "Frontsoldaten" University of Kentucky Press by Stephen G Fritz, isbn # 0-8131-1920-0. It a well done collection of stories, letters, diary entries of the average Landser. Its a good read and gives you some insight into German" GI Joes" mind.

>>33533854

They could be terrible beings under specific circumstances. So can we. The difference is, we likely aren't ordered into such situations.

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They got there rations from supply obviously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x0JQuIoBcE&spfreload=10

>>33525156
>all modern technology based off of Germany
I mean... Let's not be ignorant, much of it is

>>33534009

You are welcome to put some substance to that claim. YES, German science and industry was on the ball by the international standards of the time. In fact they had been supplying much of the world with engineer and medical education. Their specialists traveled worldwide and the world came to Germany. They were good at it. But not the best, in many categories. Which is really just a long way to say that they were equals with USA, England, France, Czechoslovakia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9lfDGBILMc&spfreload=10

>>33528198
>Heer was a military of peace
>SS do not represent the real German soldiers

>>33534220

Haha. The Wehrmacht was an army. Peace is only important until you need to achieve something by force yourself. Same as every other army ever. And as ever, the leaders write the goals and change them when they need to.

SS represented the real German soldiers. Or at least those of pure racial background, personal identification with the nazi goals and superb fitness. So rather a narrower group. From 41. And after 43, they were increasingly just conscripts and Hitlerjugend and any foreigner they could still slap an eagle badge on.

Ending the evening with a little gunnin', in case this thread is gone by morning.

The archetypical German weapon was the k98 Mauser rifle, the carbine version of the old 98 from the previous war. I get hiccups every time I watch an old war movie and see every soldier dragging around an MP40 - in reality, those were issued only to underofficers and that was at best. So in a squad of 20, 19 were likely to have a k98.

Exceptions? Yes. The Germans were masters at taking the enemy's weapons and reissuing them to their own. But not to the front line units. Instead these weapons, and practically every older type of gun they could find ammo for in their storages, were given to police troops and to foreign less-than-crack units all over their world of influence.

There were also pistols for all the officers. MG crews and such got theirs issued, officers actually were expected to purchase their own. Senior officers with office duties typically got small caliber weapons while field officers went for 9mm as a rule.

So, the k98. No point in describing it. But it held five rounds in the well and was reloaded with clips. Each clip held five rounds, and a soldier carried 12 clips in his pouches - if he was a front soldier. Secondary units might well have only one pouch instead of the usual two. There was no ammo in the regular backpack, because the backpack was not meant to be carried into battle.

Besides the rifle and ammo, the soldier also had a kit box to keep his rifle clean with. It was sturdy and practical and frankly rather heavy. However, the company staff had armourers ready to help with a bad rifle.

>>33534678
How far behind the lines were the armorers/cooks/quartermasters?

>>33534340
It's a joke about about the "Heer dindu nuffin. They wuz good boys that committed no war crimes. That was all the SS" BS that some people like to spout

>>33534981

I believe they could be hours behind hours, maybe half a day behind. Both for transport woes as for wanting to keep the service intact. When things hit the deep shit you could nor epect to see them agian.

>>33535049

Yeah thats allowing things to ovrtsimplify again

Thanks for all the information guys, its been very helpful. I had a feeling /k/ would pull through for me, or at least give me a place to start.

I'm gonna try and start reading a book a week, starting with the ones recommended. I can get them easily enough at my library. IF anyone would like to recommend more feel free. They don't necessarily have to be about the Wehrmacht either, because like >>33530361
said its important to look at other militaries in this time period.