John Moses Browning's Model 8

>>33524605
uhhhhh they had one it was just FA too.....

>>33524641
BAR is a SAW not a service rifle.

>>33524605
Early SMGs and carbines faced issues with reliability in battlefield that prevented them from catching on in many militaries; even the Thompson by WWII was nearly unfit for battlefield service until modified into the M2A1 and would have been replaced much earlier if not for doctrinal differences.

So I'm going to say "negligible". The German efforts to develop Machinepistols into war-reliable mainstays was a monumental effort that obviously came too little too late.

>>33524605

Not much since the range of a semi auto rifle isn't of much use in trench warfare.

Trenchgun shotguns and M1911s were more effective once you got into a trench.

>>33524605
>How much of a difference would it have been in WW1 if the Germans guns turned into hot dogs?

>>33524605
Small arms in general had very little effect in WW1 compared to Artillery

>>33524605
>implying that Mericans came early enough to make a difference anyway

>>33524755
trench guns were never used

>>33525140
prove it

>>33525091

Only smart answer

>>33525140
wat...

The Germans lodged official complaints.

>>33524605
The Remington 8 was readily available but the cartridge was too weak for military service (perception at the time). They were, however, trialed by the French and British as air-to-air guns at close range but this, of course, is silly as well.

The only significant use of the 8 was by the French, but they got kicked down to guards out of the cockpit and weren't actually Remingtons, they were about 90 FN 1900 carbines (a clone)

The French brought the RSC and Meunier rifles into play but the weird clips of one and the non-standard round of the other meant both needed special supplies instead of standard issue. This made them ineffective and any massed use was limited.

Automatic and semi-automatic rifles would have made little change in most aspects of the war EXCEPT in later combined arms attacks in which artillery was used in front of the advancing infantry and then soldiers took turns applying "walking fire"... basically suppressing the line as they approached. Then in clearing the trench the rapid follow up shots would probably help a good bit.

Immediately after, however, they may face counter attack so quickly moving ammo and light machine guns into place would be very important. So the BAR, Chauchat, and Lewis would be more useful in this role.

>>33525140
this anon is right, only 600 riot guns were delivered to the U.S gov during WW1, Trench gun was in prototype form

sauce: US Combat Shotguns, Leroy Thompson

>>33525091
So if the allies had muskets and the central powers semi autos, the outcome would still be the same?

>>33525331
Probably, it was mainly artillery (including gas attacks and mortars) and machine gun fire that killed people

>>33524605
Not much.
1. The USA was not anywhere near as relevant in WW1 as in WW2 and for the first 6 months or so of their involvement their troops were too inexperienced to affect much.
2. Grenades and artillery were much, much more important than any small arms in terms of kills.

>>33525331
If the allies still had their machineguns then yes, though maybe with more casualties on the allied side. The Central Powers are unlikely to win any reasonable What If unless you think up one that can magic away the blockade.

>>33524670

Unless you issue everyone in a platoon one, then it is.

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>>33525298

>Trench gun was in prototype form

The Winchester 1897 Shotgun was a slam-fire shotgun that had been in production for 2 decades before WW1.

Think it was past the "prototype" stage.

>>33525282

There are also some exchanges that state the French ordered 500 Model 8's, attributed to Commandant Balsan, in addition to the FN's they had already acquired.

>>33525282
>but the cartridge was too weak for military service (perception at the time).
If the French issued .32acp pistols I would think they would accept .35 remington

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>>33524605
very little especially considering the model 8 is to complex for general issue

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>>33524605

The Model 8 seems well and good until you have to strip it in trench conditions. I own one, and I would NOT want to have take it apart anywhere near mud. It's very reliable, sure, but it's not sufficiently soldier or trench proof in my opinion. The receiver is pretty open, you'd accumulate crud in the receiver AND inside the barrel shroud very quickly.

In .35 Remington it's also pretty hard to lay down rapid accurate fire. All that reciprocating mass really throws you around.

Plus, those 20 rounders (and allegedly 10 and 15 round) were first made available in like 1929. The army at the time would never have sprung for them. They'd have kept the stripper clip feed and 5 round fixed mag, which kinda obviates the rifle's advantages.

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Imagine if we started the war with a few of these in every trench raiding party

>>33526339

What he means is that they'd have looked at 30/32/35 Remington as mere sporting cartridges, and not 'proper' full bore Military ones. You're forgetting how conservative and arrogant WWI era Brass were about this stuff.

.35 Remington hits like a truck, but that wouldn't have mattered to them.

>>33526421
How did they keep their hat from getting smooshed in their pack?

>>33524755
>Autism the post, yes a m1911 was a thousand times better than a possible semi automatic carbine what kind of retard are you?

>>33526467

>germans so ass blasted by ameriburgers with shotguns they tried to protest

>>33525331
60%+ of all WW1 deaths were artillery.

The quality of small arms barely mattered in the big picture, sure they could win a few skirmishes with the new automatic handheld weapons but Maxims and cannons were fucking EVERYWHERE

>>33524755
holy shit fucking die

>>33524605
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/634314251

It's a nice gun. It's a shame that .32 Remington is basically non existent nowadays.

>>33528459

You know a gunshow is in town when old guys come through looking for .32 and .30 for those.

>>33527025
It's full sized rifle, not a carbine. It would've been suboptimal for the same reason as your Springfield mod from yesterday: it's too fucking long. Please larp somewhere else.

>>33528462
Would there be any way to convert them to a more common caliber? Since .35 is still made it seems as if that version is my only option if a wanted a shootable one.

>>33524605
Have you ever had one? Tried to disassemble it? No. If you did you would know that nobody in his right mind would adopt this rifle.

>>33528709
You could always reload.

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>>33526421
Campaign hats make me hard

>>33528754
Can't reload if there's no boolet casings to reload. I guess .35 it is.

>>33525298

>M1897 Trench Gun
>1897
>Still a prototype by 1917

Apply yourself. The only change was the heatshield and the M1917 bayonet mount.

>>33527074

>The rejection of their protest greatly upset the German forces, because they believed they were treated unjustly in the war. Shortly after the protest was rejected, Germany issued threats that they would punish all captured American soldiers that were found to be armed with a shotgun.[2] This led to the United States issuing a retaliation threat, stating that any measures unjustly taken against captured American soldiers would lead to an equal act by the United States on captured German soldiers.[17]

Americans don't fuck around once they decide to use shotguns.

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I know it was for logistics, but I'm kinda sad that the M1 Garand wasn't chambered in the original .276 Pedersen. It would've been much closer to a modern intermediary round in performance and it means they likely wouldn't have fucked up the EM2 and FAL with their .308 bullshit after seeing how effective intermediary rounds are.

>>33526467
>>33527074
angry Ian is best Ian

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0D6p3w2qgY

>>33529549
Kek