What are advantages and disadvantages to direct gas impingement

>>33522519
None because ARs are not direct gas impingement.

>>33522533
wat

ARs are technically piston actions. the bolt carrier is the piston

>>33522566
This is the dumbest thing I've read in a while.

>>33522577
it's a technicality.

>>33522590
There is not a piston...

Gets your action dirtier than a $5 whore

>>33522555
You heard me, dumbass.

>>33522577
its true. feel free to ask any forum.

>>33522600
>never clean gun
>"so unreliable and dirty AK is superior in every way fucking ARfags eat shit"

>>33522632
Like arfcom? No thanks I'd rather actually call the gun what it fucking is since I can take it apart right now and see theres no fucking piston and the fucking people who created the damn thing don't even call it such.

Fuck the noguns contrarianism here is strong. People can't admit they're wrong.

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>>33522600
Yea that long stroke gas piston operated AK is way less dirty.

>>33522599
Yes, there is. It's inside the bolt carrier formed by the back of the bolt and the hollow space inside the carrier.

>>33522519
>Advantages
Linear recoil.
Greater accuracy.
Less wear.
Lower profile than overhead pistons.

>Disadvantages
Need a special adjustable gas block for most suppressors, or just deal with overpressure.
Need a special kit if you have to be a special snowflake and want a folding stock or ultrashort collapsible.
Triggers pistonfag autists.

>>33522654
Maybe you should go figure out what the fuck you're talking about before you spout more fuddlore misinformation.

>>33522671
>Need a special adjustable gas block for most suppressors, or just deal with overpressure.
That's the case with basically all gas operated firearms.

>>33522671
A piece of the bcg that doesn't extend into the gas tube is not a fucking piston.

>>33522673
>Fuddlore

Sorry I didn't realize I was talking to fucking Sullivan himself.

I'm sure you're right and the AR is a fucking piston gun.

God I wish you'd contrarian fucktards would die

>>33522671
that's called direct impingement you retarded fuckmop

>>33522519
+lighter
+cheaper
+more accurate
+less prone to breaking

-requires cleaning more often

>>33522684
Jim Sullivan would call you a fucking moron if he had time to waste on /k/. The AR-15 is not direct gas impingement.

>>33522566
the bolt is actually the piston
>https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=571220

>>33522698
POST WHERE SULLIVAN CALLS IT A PISTON GUN

Please. Because in his own fucking words piston ars are retarded.

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>>33522691
Nope, you mongoloid cumsponge.

>>33522715
"Direct impingement is a type of gas operation for a firearm that directs gas from a fired cartridge directly into the bolt carrier or slide assembly to cycle the action."

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I've been lurking/posting on k for 10+ years and this is one of the most retarded semantic arguments I've ever seen. Please stop and discuss the actual OP topic.

>>33522740
Tell that to the retards calling an AR a piston gun you dumb rat poster

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>>33522684
>A piece of the bcg that doesn't extend into the gas tube is not a fucking piston.
>>33522691
>that's called direct impingement you retarded fuckmop

Retards detected. Direct impingment, properly speaking, is an action where the gas is routed to strike a cup at the top of the bolt, and that gas strike operates the action. Example is the MAS-49.

In the AR-10/15 action it is routed into a piston chamber, which then expands until the rings on the bolt clear the vent holes on the carrier and exhausts out the ejection port, with inertia carrying the bolt carrier the rest of the way.

>>33522706
here is eugene stoner's patent. he refers to the bolt (85a) as a piston.
>https://www.google.com/patents/US2951424#v=onepage&q&f=false

>>33522752
That's a Guinea pig you heathen, not a rat.

>>33522732
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAS-49_rifle
^This is an actual DI rifle.

>>33522752
But I don't see a jew

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>this thread

>>33522740
Ar15s are not a direct impingement design tardo, there is an expansion chamber at the bottom of the gas key in between the bolt and the carrier.

Yaknow, the same gas chamber that requires thise funny little gas rings to provide a proper seal.

The stoner gas system has more in common with pistons that direct gas impingement.

>>33522752
>Implying you're not retarded for claiming it isn't

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>>33522755
>an action where the gas is routed to strike a cup at the top of the bolt

>>33522783
>Gas key that routes it into the piston chamber
>Same thing
Dumbass.

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>>33522519
>>33522533
>>33522566

ARs ARE direct impingement.
Stoner called it something else so he could patent it. That's all.
The only real difference is that an AR blows gas directly into a bolt carrier instead of just against the bolt.

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>>33522783
Dont worry guys anon is just "pretending" to be a retard.

>>33522755
>Into

>>33522759
Referring to a bolt as a piston in mechanical terms isn't the same as a gun being piston operated. Thats like me saying a gun with a bolt is bolt operated because it has a bolt. It doesn't even make sense.


And he's referring to a particular part as a piston not the entire bolt seemingly.

Again if you were right Sullivan himself wouldn't have called piston ars retarded. Go watch the forgotten weapons interview and read the comments.

You're being a deliberately contrarian little fuckwit.

>>33522791
>I don't understand how DI or the AR piston works, but I'll keep memeing!

>>33522759
"This invention is a true expanding gas system instead of the conventional impinging gas system.″

So it's an "expanding gas system" per stoners words, not a direct impingement nor a gas piston system. You're both wrong, discussion over.

>>33522791
That is incorrect, recoil happens directly inline with the bore in stoners design, something that cannot be accomplished with a true DI system.

>>33522807
Stop being pedantic

>>33522809
>Patent legal lingo is what it actually is.
>Ignore that the definition of dgi fits perfectly with how an AR functions

>>33522798
is contrarian the only big word you know? you are incredibly dense.

>>33522807

I understand exactly how it works, and my post proves that.
The definition of DI has nothing to do with whether gas enters the bolt carrier or not.

The only reason people say the AR isn't DI is because it makes them feel insecure for whatever reason.
Just because Stoner intentionally mislabeled things to circumvent patent law, doesn't make it so.

>>33522820
You're the one that thinks contrarian is a big word, senpai

xD

>>33522816
Hey dummy
>>33522810

>>33522820
Why use anything else when it is what you are?

>>33522835
Nothing about dgi definitions prevent the AR from fitting them retard. Nothing about being inline

Read:
>>33522732

Literally exactly what the AR does through the tube

>>33522810

That's not true. It would just complicate the design unnecessarily.

>>33522796
>on top of bolt carrier
>strike cup
what am I missing?

>>33522835
And to add further "dummy" the fucking piece that is being shoved with the gas is a part of the bolt not a separate piston. Gas acting directly on the bolt to cycle the action = dgi

>>33522646
>fire two rounds
>have to clean rifle
>"lol uncivilized barbarians never cleaning their guns!"

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I know less about the AR-15 now. Thanks.

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>>33522852
Sorry stupid, all of those little gas rings, keys, gas exhaust ports and expansion chambers prove you wrong.

Unless of course youre too stupid to understand, im sure your brainlet self thinks its just like the fn49.

>>33522871
>fire one thousand rounds
>oh my god I can't believe I have to clean my gun fuck this

>>33522889
How else is gas going to operate the action you fucking retard? It's a hollow fucking tube for gas to go through that pushes DIRECTLY on the bolt to cycle the action.

It is the definition of dgi.

>>33522519
http://www.slip2000.com/blog/s-w-a-t-magazine-filthy-14/

>>33522908
No it doesnt brainlet, it directs gas into an expansion chamber directly inline with the bore.

The bolt carrier is pushed back while the gasses expand and cams the bolt, unlocking the action.

Then as soon as tha gas rings clear the exhaust ports the excess gas is directed out of the action.

The bolt and carrier together form a piston and behave exaclty as such.

Pistons have expansion chambers and return springs, omg just like an ar15.

>>33522954
The bolt is cammed from it being pushed back any gun has to be unlocked to cycle if it's locked breech how the fuck do you think that makes it not dgi?

Read the dgi definitions and explain to me how the AR is not dgi you fucktard.

>>33522825
>Is completely wrong
>Doubles down

>>33522871
>Reminder that most of the fouling in an AR is from barrel blowback like in every single other semi-auto rifle

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>no guns retards call this a fucking piston

>>33522972
Its cammed my force provided by a gas piston, in stoners case he combined a gas piston and bolt into a single part.

>>33523028
>Picture of an in-carrier piston

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>>33523028
>brainlets who dont know how their firearms work

>>33523033
Because it's a fucking bolt not a fucking piston. It literally first over and cups the fucking tube

>>33523037
IT IS THE BOLT


Gasses directed directly into bolt to cycle action = DGI

This isn't hard.

>>33523046
>Gas comes from tube and pushes the BOLT back to cycle the action directly

>GAS DIRECT INTO BOLT

>Not piston smacking bolt

This has to be bait at this point

>>33523047
No it doesnt autismo, the gas key isnt a cup, it just directs the gas into the gas expansion chamber inside the carrier.

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>>33522862

>>33522908
>It is the definition of dgi.
that's actually impingement directly on the bolt carrier you noguns nigger ape moronic piece of non homo sapiens shit.

>>33523047
>>33523067
See gif in >>33522755

>>33523094
GAS KEY IS PART OF BOLT CARRIER YOU FUCKWIT.

To answer OP's question there are no disadvantages to Stoner's expanding gas system when compared to a short stroke, or long stroke piston.
As for disadvantages in general, the AR requires a buffer and as such can't use folding stocks in standard configuration.

>>33523115
The gas key is hollow, fucktard.

>>33523137
Gasses from tube direct onto bcg to cycle not onto any kind of separate piston.

Dgi

>>33523115
ARE ALL LONG STOKE PISTON RIFLES WITH AN EXPANSION CHAMBER DI THEN FUCKWIT? WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU THINK A GAS BLOCK DOES?

>>33522815
>>33522825
>say something wrong
>get corrected
>"oh but everybody calls it that so it's correct"
Like fuck with that logic AR15s are assault baby killer weapons

>>33523171
>Gasses from tube direct onto bcg to cycle not onto any kind of separate piston.
You mean through the key into the piston chamber formed by the carrier and the back of the bolt?

Gas entering through the key and into the BCG unlocks the bolt from the chamber, but it doesn't actually cycle the BCG, the leftover gas impinging on the key from the tube does that.

>>33523216
>the leftover gas impinging on the key from the tube does that
This is completely fucking wrong, but OK.

>>33523216
>the bolt will unlock without moving the carrier
wew. just fuck my cam pin up senpai.

>>33523208
There is no fucking piston! The gas is acting on the carrier there is no piston forcing onto the carrier it is acting on a piece that is literally attached to the fucking bolt.

It doesn't even go inside the tube and form a seal it literally sits over it

>>33523253
See >>33522755 and >>33523088 you fucking idiot.

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>>33523253
>It doesn't even go inside the tube and form a seal it literally sits over it
??????

>>33523263
The gif proves what I said you fucking moronic cunt. There is no piston the gas travels through the tube and acts on the carrier directly.

>>33523288
Exactly it doesn't go inside the tube. How is that wrong? It cups over it.

>>33522519

The biggest advantage is low weight in relation to barrel length due to a lack of a conventional piston setup. Other piston based rifles that do beat out an AR in weight typically do so by shortening the barrel.

>>33523300
>There is no piston the gas travels through the tube and acts on the carrier directly.
It expands the fucking chamber AS A PISTON you idiot.

>>33522871

>not enjoying cleaning rifle

what are you gay?

>>33523309
Do you know what a fucking piston is? There is no piston inside the tube or that travels from gas acting on it, the gas travels through the tube and directly impacts the bcg. That is not piston driven.

>>33523329
>There is literally a piston chamber formed by the bolt and bolt carrier the gas enters to expand and work the action
>hurrr nu peestun durrr

Is this "its DI" shit the ultimate bait for /k/? I've never seen it fail to get more than 5 responses.

>>33523351
>Muh chambers dirr muh autistic focus on things not affecting definitions of action

Where's the piston Sherlock

>>33523329
Thank you!

sick of non-mechanical types autistically bleating about muh stoner gas being a pistonless piston, while in reality it's just an improved DI that cuts down on the violence of the action compared to traditional straight-to-the-face DI

>>33523329

https://youtu.be/Qlk9BG8aAbs?t=232

>>33523351
calling a chamber a piston chamber doesn't make it a piston, it's still just a chamber

where is the piston, chump?

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>>33523413
>tfw know it's not di
>usually post it is then argue with the people who agree it's di

>>33523416
>>33523431
>Retards so heavily dedicated to their "hurr not a piston" meme that they can't accept that, by all engineering standards the bolt and carrier form a poiston

>>33523417
>pistonless piston
You're stupid.

>>33523463
>by all engineering standards the bolt and carrier form a poiston
Except that's not true. A piston is a defined thing anon, you don't get to claim expansion chambers are suddenly pistons just because pistons also need a chamber to work in.

>>33523483
Just because there isn't a stick over top of the barrel doesn't mean it isn't a piston.

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>tfw 53 years later a bunch of noguns are still latching on to your inaccurate marketing buzzword as if it were mechanical truth

>>33523503
where is the piston that operates inside this chamber

>>33523565
The bolt. The gas pressure pushes it forward and the carrier to the rear, unlocking it and imparting enough inertia to cycle the action.

>>33523300
Oh you're just pretending to be retarded.

>>33523463
>>33523463
>Hurr every gun with a locking breech is essentially piston driven

You're a fucking moron.

>>33523710
Not an argument you stupid prick.

You literally said the bolt is a piston whilst the definition of di is gasses imparting force directly on the bcg. You are literally agreeing with me.

>>33522759
WRECKED

>>33522809
Yes, but I typically just call it Stoner gas system or AR gas system.

>>33523741
Do you know how patents work moron? Do you have any idea how to skirt around things?

Even if that part is the piston it's still directly attached to the fucking bcg

>>33523737
Nice strawman.

>>33523789
Not a strawman that's literally what you're saying.

>>33523067
The gas does not push the bolt back. The gas pushed the bolt FOWARD and the bold CARRIER backwards. The bolt carrier then pulls the bolt back, not the gas.

>>33523801
No, it is not. What I stated was that the AR-10/15 system is clearly piston-based because of how it works, but nice try.

>>33523565
THE BOLT YOU FUCKING BRAINLET

>>33523819
What the fuck are you talking about. The bolt is attached to the bcg.

>>33523880
The bolt isn't a piston dumb fuck and even if it was it would still be dgi because gas imparting force onto the bcg directly is dgi you fucktard

>>33523961
>The bolt is attached to the bcg.
Holy shit, do you actually think the bolt is static in the BCG?

>The bolt isn't a piston dumb fuck
Yes, it is. You're pretty angry for someone sitting so high on mt stupid.

>>33523961
The bolt is INSIDE the BCG. The BCG and the bolt are not welded together, they move separately. If they were stock together the bolt would never unlock.

The BCG is the cylinder and the bolt is the piston.

>>33522831
you've said it twice
try thinking up a synonym if you really want to insult him

What I'd like to see is a piston rifle that works like an AR. The AK doesn't bring gas back to the bolt like the AR does. The AR10 doesn't. The SCAR doesn't. No piston rifle I can recall works like an AR.

>>33524177
Nobody else bothered to make a different one with the action because they could just use the plans to build their own AR-15s.

And most overhead piston rifles coming out these days are AR-18 clones.

>>33524177
>The AR10 doesn't.
Kind of special aren't you?

>>33524177
>The AR10 doesn't.
What? AR-10s and 15s have the same action.

>>33524218
>>33524220
fuck
I meant to say AR18

>>33524256
Because the AR-18 was always intended as a cheap sheet-metal rifle to be sold to third-world nations. Like the AK.

>>33524256
Proof reading mate.
Wouldn't want to be mistaken for that other idiot.

>>33524026
>>33524025
Just because the bolt can cam doesn't mean they aren't one unit, the bcg. Retards. Why do you think it's called the bcg?

>>33524464
>can cam
>can
The bolt and bcg ALWAYS get pushed apart. That's how it fucking works you halfwit.

And no, they don't "cam" apart. They get pushed apart by the gas, with the bold acting as a pneumatic piston inside the bcg which acts as a cylinder. When the bcg moves backwards it then cams the bolt to turn it. The caming motion turns the bolt, the linear movement to perform that caming is caused by the bcg and bolt acting as cylinder and piston.

>>33524648
None of this has anything to do with it being dgi you autistic fag.

>>33524702
Quote where I said it did retard.

autism speaks.

it posts about DI too.

>>33523183
Does it use gas tapped from the barrel to cycle its operating system? Yes. Thus it is a gas operated firearm

Does it have an a piston and operating rod directly connected to the bolt carrier? No. Thus it is not a long-stroke gas piston-operated gun.

Does it have a piston and operating rod which is not connected to the the bolt carrier and imparts motion on the bolt carrier? No. Thus it is not a short-stroke gas piston-operated.

Does it have a gas tube which directs gasses onto/into the bolt carrier to cycle the firearm? Yes. Thus it is a direct impingement design.

The AR-15 patent does not describe a fundamentally different operation; ergo, it is a direct impingement design.

>>33523449
isn't this guy that guy that used to hang with athene or something?

>>33524803
No other direct impingement design has ever plumbed gas INTO the carrier.

>>33524834
That's Steve1989

>>33524842
And no other piston design has ever plumbed gas INTO the receiver.

>>33524904
That's why Stoner got his patent. You tard.

>>33524972
The patent doesn't prove shit.

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>>33524904

The person who developed the short stroke piston did make internal pistons though.

https://www.google.com/patents/US2353679
https://www.google.com/patents/US2356491

>>33524803
Actual DGI designs just terminate the path of the gas at a cup on the top of the bolt, there is no piston chamber in such designs like in an AR-15.

>>33522519
So I looked this girl up. She's Asian!? Never would have guessed. Damn fine looking one too.

>>33522693
>-requires cleaning more often

Still better than roller-delayed blowback.

The fucking roller channels are a mega bitch to clean

>>33522519
What is this hairstyle called?

>>33526586
the cum mop, with handles.

>>33525367
Which makes Stoner's system a subset of gas impingement, since it in no way resembles the BCG-attached piston of a long stroke design nor the tappet of a short stroke.

It's fucking obvious that a MAS-49 and AR-15 operate differently, but they are more similar to each other than an AR-18 or FAL in terms of how the bolt is operated upon

>>33523961

>In which a /k/ommando basically decides the AR-15 is straight blowback

>>33528167
>Piston chamber that expands to send the bcg to the rear
>hurr durr di durr

>>33529361
>there's a gas tube which siphons gas to act directly upon bolt carrier rather than through a piston which acts on the BCG hurr

>>33530003
>DI: Force of gas pressure directly hits cup on bolt and drives it back
>Stoner gas system: Gas is directed into a piston chamber whose expansion creates the force to cycle the rifle

>argue that because the AR-15 ticks all boxes except one for DI it's a piston system
>when it ticks none of the boxes for a piston system

>>33530083
Stop being willfully ignorant. The gas is still acting directly upon the bolt carrier without an intermediary piston or operating rod

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>>33530116
>>33530249
>Retards still banging on about "durr DI" when it's clearly a piston system
HOW it acts on the carrier matters, buddy.

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Honestly being an AK owner and NatGuard is kinda cool. A couple of my friends got ARs and the ones who haven't want to get them, the whole "I've trained with this gun" thing. I haven't noticed a huge issue with any AR variants other than they get insanely dirty. People who don't shoot much or don't have a lot of experience with other piston guns don't know, but the internals of the AR get really fucking dirty from shooting even small amounts.

>>33530443
The AR's BCG acting as an internal piston does not make it a piston-operated design in the understanding of a piston-operated system relative to the Garand and AR-18.

What's your fucking explanation for the lack of linkage in the form of a rod going from the gas port to the bolt carrier to impart motion upon it?

Also samefag. The AR is direct impingement. The gun doesn't have a piston. Gas directly pours into the carrier and receiver of the rifle. How is this even an argument.

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>>33522519
Hey I have a DI ar10 and a Piston ar10, what's happening in this thread, maybe I can put in some valuab-

>>33531583
Are you really that scared of losing face on an anonymous aboriginal cave painting sanctum?

How is a stick running next to the barrel a part of defining if it's a piston system when the AR gas system is, in fact, a BCG-internal piston?

>>33531801
They're both pistons, the only difference is where the piston is.

>>33531806
holy shit you're mad
what the fuck is a BCG internal piston
have any designs other than the AR used it?

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>>33531810
Mfw neither gun fires German surplus 308
I bought 1000 rounds
At least I have an Indian 308 bolt action. Fuck did I fuck that up.

>>33531556
The AR has always been a professional's weapon. Works great and I love it but it requires lots of care and feeding compared to something like an AK.

>gas goes into tube connected to barrel
>gas system
>goes into tube
>tube goes to receiver
>sounds like DI
>instead of going into strike cup directly attached to bolt (impossible on rotating bolt) it goes into small chamber in bolt carrier
>pushes directly on fucking bolt to make it a rotating system
>not quite DI, not a short stroke or long stroke system
>could it be
>oh no
>no way
>Its own fucking system
>you window licking retards

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>>33531832
Fuck, it's hard to teach when you idiots refuse to learn.

The gas flows into that chamber behind the gas rings.
The pressure forces the bolt (piston) forward against the chamber.
As that hits the hard stop the carrier (piston cylinder) moves rearward, camming the bolt into the forward, unlocked position.
As it reaches full extension the gas rings have cleared the venting holes on the carrier and released excess pressure out the ejection port.
The carrier (cylinder) now has enough inertia from the piston expansion force to drive the buffer and buffer spring to the rear of the buffer tube, and the buffer spring then returns the bolt carrier group to battery.

"It doesn't have a stick so it isn't really a piston" is your tiring argument here.

>>33531904
The key point is that it's a piston chamber inside the BCG.

>>33531949
apparently pistons rotate

>>33531993
and that classifies it as a piston system?
the strike cup on your "muh true DI" guns could be considered a piston in that case

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Only on /k/ will a thread breakdown from crippling autism because of semantics of terms we all understand. I'll see ya guys in /r9k/

>>33532011
Who says they can't? Where the hell do you get these ideas?

>>33532059
Except there are people in this thread who legitimately don't know how their ARs work. Some dumbasses think the gas pushes on the gas key instead of going through it.

>>33532021
Not really, no. That's a gas-impact driving system.

>>33532100
>asking 4chan how anything works

I think some mistakes were made

>>33531806
Because the stick is a component of the AK, AR-18, Garand, FAL, etc. The stick moves the bolt carrier.

There is no stick in the AR-15. In fact, gas flows from a gas tube to move the bolt carrier instead of pushing against a stick.

>>33522577

Learn what a piston is, then look at an AR BCG.

>>33532269
>to move the bolt carrier
And how does it do that? By expanding between the BCG and the bolt, which together form a pneumatic piston.

>>33532269
And you keep missing the point that the stick isn't the important part here, it's that the gas tube routes the gas into a piston chamber inside the BCG.

>>33532273
The bcg cannot be a piston because even if it is in mechanical terms then by gun functioning definitions it would still be dgi because of the gas imparting the force directly on the bcg. It doesn't matter if mechanically speaking you define it as a piston or not it is still first and foremost the bcg.

I'm sick and tired of reading you and maybe one other guy go on and on with this autistic shit the entire thread, I guarantee you've never touched an AR. This is the dumbest fucking trash I've ever read in my life.

You're ignoring that there is no op rod, no actual piston, nothing to actually make it a piston gun.

>>33529255
Not what was said at all.

>>33532520
>Rambling idiocy

>>33532532
Oh wow more non arguments. Big surprise from someone who doesn't understand what a fucking piston operated gun is.

Probably took a mechanics course in some euro high school and thinks he's smart shit.

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>ITT: weaponized autism

>>33532516
>>33532295

The piston chamber != the "stick" used by FAL, Garand, etc

>>33532548
>>33532604
>Retards who've been completely told and given detailed technical information on how the AR internal piston functions
>Durr not peeston cuz nu stick hurr!

>>33532672
It doesn't have a fucking piston you autistic fucking wank stain.

Even if you were right and the bcg is a piston it's first and foremost a bcg and if that were the case other designs would likely be "piston" driven as well that aren't classified as such.

They aren't classified as such because there isn't a fucking piston driving into an op rod to operate the firearm. The gas is directed to push directly onto the bcg and operate the gun.

>>33532688
The AR-10/15 are literally the only designs that use a BCG-internal piston, dumbass. Everybody who builds one just doesn't bother to fuck with perfection and builds an AR clone.

THE. OPERATING. ROD. DOESN'T. DEFINE. THAT. IT. IS. A. PISTON.

Get it through your thick fucking skull.

>>33532721
No it having a FUCKING PISTON would define it as a piston gun. There isn't a piston you stupid low IQ retarded autistic nigger.

>Hurr muh chamber makes the bcg a piston durrrrrr

>>33532721
>THE. OPERATING. ROD. DOESN'T. DEFINE. THAT. IT. IS. A. PISTON.

Yes it does.

While its not inaccurate to describe the operation of the AR-15 BCG as a piston, and it certainly works differently from a MAS-49 for example.

Gas operation is defined by the use of gas to move a BCG. The BCG can be moved through an operating rod directly attached to the bolt carrier (long stroke gas piston), through an operating rod which is not attached to the BCG and instead pushes the BCG but does not move through the full cycle (short stroke gas piston), or is taken through a gas tube to directly move the BCG (direct impingement).

What the gas does afterwards is irrelevant. The Stoner Gas system is obviously different from a MAS-49 because of the internal piston. This does not make it a piston-operated firearm.

>>33532754
>Lol if I sit back and post le funny image macros no one will realize I'm retarded too

>>33532604
>a piston isn't a piston unless it's long and thin
>no chode pistons allowed
bigot

>>33532729
ARs have pistons. The bolt and bcg form a piston and piston cylinder, respectively.

>>33532729
Except, you know, by all valid definitions it is, in fact, a piston. But hey, you keep on sperging that the piston totally has to be out side of the action and has to have an op rod to be a piston, even though the BCG has:
Cylinder (Bolt Carrier)
Piston (Bolt)
Gas inlet (Gas key)
Pressure relief to control piston inertia (Ejection port side vent holes)
Uses gas expansion within the cylinder to push forward on the piston

It's getting hilarious how your position on Mt Stupid must be defended so aggressively.

>>33532789
You fuck tard if the bcg is a piston and gas acts directly on to operate the gun then it's fucking dgi you retard.

>>33532758
>Yes it does.
Nope, do try to learn.

>>33532795
It isn't a fucking piston you dumb fuck and as I've said a million times itt if the bcg is a fucking piston then the gun is by definition DGI since the gas imparts force directly on the bcg.

>Hurr muh mt stupid

Wow dude you're so funny and smart lol have an upvote

Kill yourself nigger

>>33532796
Again, DI uses impact pressure to simply push the bolt back. AR piston uses gas pressure to expand the piston chamber.

>>33532802
Awww, is da widdle idiot getting buttmad and flustered?

>>33532804
The chamber is irrelevant dumb fuck gas travels through the tube to impart force onto the bcg that is irrelevant.

>>33532729
But the bolt is a gas piston...

>>33532821
>How the force operates doesn't matter at all!

The best action is clearly straight blowback.

>>33532829
IF THE BOLT IS A PISTON IT IS DGI READ

>>33532873
Actual DI rifle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7QfC9YA5fE

>>33532934
You're not arguing the point or the definition by linking a different gun

>>33532952
At this point the hard, technical facts are pretty much exhausted and I'm repeating myself as you keep up your hardheaded "buh-buh-but, it's DI cuz I think it is!"

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>>33532759

>>33522519
Doesn't matter as much with modern metal coatings.

A DI gun is often just as easy to clean if run wet and coated with a well made nitride finish.

>>33532100
Well shit, that's pretty logical, isn't it?
Your CH pulls the bolt back without acting directly on the bolt, only the BCG. And it's applying force in the exact same place as the the gas key. Seems like something that would make sense, especially because so many explanations never go further than "and the gas pushes the BCG back".

>>33533101
I can't spell this any clearer for you fucktards.

Force imparted directly onto bcg regardless if you autistically think it's a piston or not is dgi. You stupid fucking niggers.

If you cannot refute that then there is no point for you to keep arguing around pointlessly dipshit.

>>33532796
>if the bcg is a piston
No, the BCG is a piston CYLINDER. The bolt is the piston. Please read a book.

>>33533334
>The bolt is a piston and the bcg is a cylinder because it moves inside it to cam and unlock
>I'm still going to ignore the definitions of direct gas impingement that the other anon has posted multiple times

Wow you're retarded.

>>33533226
>I'm going to keep repeating myself as if I'm right because I can't substantiate my invalid belief

>>33533205
It's the sort of misconception that could only be "pretty logical" if you've never taken the bolt out of an AR before.

Which means these people are either idiots who never clean their guns, or are idiots who cannot into trivial mechanical reasoning. Either way, they're idiots.

>>33533384
No, you are.

>>33533384
>it's not a piston because reasons
Not an argument.

>>33533404
Are you this daft? Even if it is a piston mechanically speaking it doesn't change what method of function the gun is. It's still dgi.

Please learn to fucking read.

>>33533422
>Even if it is a piston mechanically speaking it doesn't change what method of function the gun is
It's a piston that happens to be inside the BCG instead of over the barrel. How hard is this to grasp?

>>33533430
Because the gas is still directed onto the bcg directly to operate the firearm. This is dgi.

You can keep ignoring this all you want it doesn't make you right.

>>33533390
>Trivial

I've built around 4 ARs now and I'm literally just learning that the gas does not push the BCG backwards. It's completely logical. When gas pushes back on the bolt face, it stays locked, but if you just tug on the back of the BCG it twists and pops out.

I'd bet that if you closed the gas key you'd still be able to get the design to work nearly as is.

>>33533430
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite_AR-15
>gas operated direct impingement

OK

>>33533466
You never noticed that the gas key is hollow? You never wondered why the back of an AR bolt looks a hell of a lot like it has gas seal rings like a piston would?

>>33533466
>I'd bet that if you closed the gas key you'd still be able to get the design to work nearly as is.
Try it. Come back and post pics.

>>33522661
I only see smoke/gas coming out of the chamber (where the AR would also have gas/smoke) and none coming from the gas tube

>>33522661
god damn the AK is phallic

>>33522519
>What are advantages and disadvantages to direct gas impingement in ARs?
another part vs theoretically more fouling

It makes no real difference.

>>33525815
She's half. She played Mikasa in the shitty Attack on titan movie too. Japan's got a thing for haafu's right now. You should check out Rola too.

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Hey guys check out my new piston system handgun.

It's pretty clever. When the round is fired expanding gas forms an expansion chamber piston inside the brass case that acts on the slide assembly. This forces the slide backwards until the barrel unlocks and the brass expansion chamber piston is ejected. Using a new piston expansion chamber for each shot really keeps the heat down, and having the piston in line with the slide/bolt really keeps down recoil.

What will those Germans think of next?

>>33533466
>I'd bet that if you closed the gas key you'd still be able to get the design to work nearly as is.
That's what a short-stroke piston does, it also creates carrier tilt and peens that impact face because the design was never intended to use an overhead piston.

>>33533585
That is exactly my point. Neither is dirtier or cleaner than the other since the main source of dirt is from chamber blowback.

>>33533805
Nice try strawmanning you little shit.

>>33533805
Lmao btfo that idiot

>>33533841
He's not strawmanning retard it's literally exactly what you said.

>>33533805
>implying USPs are blowback
Are you stupid or something?

>>33534083
It's an internal brass piston

>>33534123
That is the case in a blowback pistol, but not in a short recoil slide locking pistol like a USP. Please learn guns.

>>33533910
>He's not strawmanning retard it's literally exactly what you said.
You are fucking retarded if you think that's the same thing.

>>33534083
>>33534273

Note the part about the barrel unlocking. Please learn to read before trying to use the internet.

>>33534123

This guy gets it. It's obvious if you aren't an idiot. Just look up a diagram, the barrel is also a gas tube which directs the hot gas into the brass expansion chamber piston which presses the bolt/slide backwards.

Make sure you go around every thread to autistically correct everyone on this important technicality.

>>33534273
The brass piston pushes back on the slide to unlock it. It's just a trivial detail that barrel tilts and doesn't follow through the travel of the slide.

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>>33533805
>>33534400

>>33534686
t. AR-15 is a gas piston-operated rifle sophist

>>33525815

she looks sick and wet and i want to barf

>>33534713
>I hate facts!

>>33534759
That the BCG acts as an internal piston is a completely specious deflection from the qualities of a direct-impingement operating system

>>33534866
Because the AR internal piston isn't really DI.

>>33535043
Now you're arguing in circles.

Show me the piston that operates upon the bolt carrier. This is the key differentiating factor.

You sophist piece of shit. The AR's system ticks none of the boxes of a long-stroke system or short stroke system. It ticks most of the boxes of a direct impingement system (even if you want to get pedantic about the gas entering the BCG and acting as an internal piston), and the one thing it doesn't tick does not fundamentally change it.

The AR-system, at the most nitpicking definition, is a subset of direct impingement operation. To say otherwise and distract from key differentiating factors is pure intellectual dishonesty.

Go drink some hemlock

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>>33535096
why does the piston have to be separate from the bolt carrier group to be a piston? does this mean garands primer actuated rifles aren't piston driven because the piston is located within the bcg?

>>33533693
She's not even hafu though, her mother's ethnically korean

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This fucking thread

>>33535096
>The AR-system, at the most nitpicking definition, is a subset of direct impingement operation. To say otherwise and distract from key differentiating factors is pure intellectual dishonesty.
He says, as he dishonestly claims the piston is meaningless.

>Go drink some hemlock
You first.

>>33535202
>why does the piston have to be separate from the bolt carrier group to be a piston?
Because he's caught up in the fallacious idea that the piston absolutely can't be part of the bcg.

>>33522798
>using mechanical terms describe a mechanical device components hurts me

You're right, the AR is gas operated. So the specifics don't matter because pistons aren't magic or sentient

>>33534400
>>33534447
Until the barrel is unlocked, there is no relative motion between the brass and barrel. Therefore in a slide locking handgun the brass and barrel do not act as a piston.

In a blowback handgun, they do.

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This whole thread.

>>33533466
How does the gas not force the bcg back?
Gas travels down the gas tube and key
Enter an expansion chamber made from the rear of the bolt and the bolt carrier.
Bolt is pushed forward by gas, bolt carrier rearward.
Bolt unlocks/ cams out from the bolt carrier pulling on it
Bcg moved back via inertia.


Unless ive got a fundamental misunderstanding it appears the bolt carrier group get its entire rearward momentum from the gas

>>33541561
It's a difference between how true DI works (the gas just slams into the bolt carrier and knocks it back, while blowing all over inside the action) and how the AR system uses a piston chamber to create a relatively clean, controlled use of the gas.

>>33541614
Im not arguing di or piston because ive always just called it the stoner gas system.

I understand functionally how they differ but saying the gas isnt directly responsible for the action cycling seems wrong.

Just so were on the same page the bcg moves rearward because of the gas, we can agree to that yes?

>>33541665
>I understand functionally how they differ but saying the gas isnt directly responsible for the action cycling seems wrong.
Nobody is saying this, just that DI isn't really a valid way to describe how it works against "hurr no piston!".

>>33541721

Oh, then it seems i misintpreted what that guy was saying. My bad.