Falklands 2: gibraltar Boogaloo

Nothing will happen

>>33517505

well thats why I said theorethically

We all knwo this is just Spains goverment trying to make its people not think about internal problems, and about the hypocrisy of supporting a second scottish referendu fucking 3 years after the last failed, while not even considering giving Catalonia a referendum.

Hypothetically, Spain invades Gibraltar and the UK wants to take it back.

Can they invoke NATO article 5 against Spain, who is also in NATO?

>>33517794
no, see Greece/turkey

>>33517497
I need way more explaination because I'm not a european and I don't know european geography. What the fuck is Gibraltar? I need maps and infomation.

>>33517815
it's a chunk south of spain between the straight that open up into the sea between france and shitaly.

they've been fighting over it for 100s of years now.

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Its literally a rock

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar

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>>33517815
Gibraltar is a peninsula at the tip of Spain, with a controlling position over the entry to the Mediterranean.

Bongs and Spaniards consistently fight about it but the Gibraltar WANTS to be British

>>33517855
They an what it all they like, but a look at that map tells me Spain can easily hold it or take it as they wish. Like Hong Kong and China.

>>33517869

Please, Franco tried to get it but was smart enough not to try by force.

Sure they could, but at what cost.

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The Anglos are at it again. When will they stop stealing Spanish people's land?

>>33517869
It has a garrison, it also has RN ships and submarines there usually.
They could probably take it if we didnt notice force build-up but then we would either invade or use a nuclear missile, probably try to recapture it first though

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First words of the cuck war has begun!

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>>33517897
This is going to escalate beautifully

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>>33517888
>Spanish... accusing anyone of stealing anything!

>>33517897
Holy shit that's not even an edit.

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>>33517855
To add, now Spain pointed out that , if UK will negate freedom of movement, they will have to put a border control to Gibraltar.
Somehow this translated to anglos news as "they want to attack Gibraltar!".

>>33517912
those cities were founded before there were arabs or muslims in Morocco. Only nomadic berbers lived there from time to time.

>>33517915

No, spain basically slowly wants to destroy gibraltar soveraignity since they are butthurt they voted 99% against letting Spain have any say there in 2002. Now they try to get into there through the backdoor, and the EU lets them cause WAHH WAHH UK cant leave or we will throw a hissyfit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Forces_Gibraltar

UK Troops that are there at any given time, not counting other UKK troops that are there not-permanent

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>>33517915
It was a suggestion put forward that Gibraltar would not be able to be included with trade deals, and they would have to be re-ran separately, and Spain might have a veto.
So not so much a threat as a way of complicating things, and one that's very insulting to Gibraltar's status ("you're not real Britain, you'll need to deal separately") - at worst it's a minor threat to trade.

You're absolutely right in that no-one wants to attack Gibraltar though, one of the Conservative Lords just decided to make the comparison of "Women PM, small island's sovereignty under spanish-speaking threat", because that's a happy Conservative success that they'll be using as an excuse for years yet, and Spain said Britain is "losing its cool" - it really is "he said, she said" bickering

>>33517889
Use a nuclear missile..... Fuck why have my ignorant countryman suddenly piped up. As Churchill said "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."

>>33517960
I agree, he is right.

Thatcher threatened to use one over the falklands if the exocet missiles continued, if there was major loss of life among British forces and/or civilians, then i think the use of another one would be threatened again

>>33518015

"Stop using effective weapons or we will nuke you"

Fucking losers.

>>33517960
>>33518015
Reminder that it is in absolutely nobody's best interests - save for the most delusional fanatics - to actually use nukes in actual warfare.

>>33518145
>stop using effective weapons or we will use an even better weapon

>>33518015
An unsubstantiated threat made to France in private in return for codes is not the same as threatening to escalate from conventional to nuclear war against a country in the same bloc as you. Anyway there was no chance in hell she would have used them over the 5 exocet missiles Argentina had.

>>33518015
I thought she threatened nukes over the possible use of NBC weapons

>>33517497
If anything happens at all, the defending side will win.
>Amphibious assaults in 2017 lul

>>33518147

But this suggests there's nothing rational about nuclear weapons and their use? When they're nothing but a weapon that people have irrational response to.

>>33518237
>I don't understand air power and precision munitions in 2017 lul

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>>33517897

>>33518287
>I don't understand SAMs and land based AShM

>>33518322
>just wild weasel my shit up senpai
You know that the UK is buying F35s right?

>>33518330
Sure, and by 2023 they will have 24 planes. How much do they have right now, 3?

>>33518287
>air power
>precision munitions
>Spain
It'll never happen but if it did it'd be the biggest fuckup spain has had since breeding with ameriniggers instead of killing them and importing their own pussy like the based anglos did in America/Aus/NZ.

>>33518348

At the beginning of 2023 it will be 35 F-35Bs and by the end of that year it would be 42 F-35Bs.

>>33517511
>while not even considering giving Catalonia a referendum.

You threatened the scotish that if they wen the indepence route they would have to go out of the EU and wait in line to join again.

Now there is brexit, so since you failed with your promises now you have to eat the consequences.

>>33517877

The rock itself would be almost for free, the hard part is doing it without ruining anything since the whole city depends on tourism.

>>33517912

Spain is not trying to leave the EU while Ceuta and Melilla voted 95,6% to remain in the EU.

Thats a big difference there.

>>33517934
>WAHH WAHH UK cant leave or we will throw a hissyfit


Did the UK really spected to get independence without a scratch?

Now thats deilusional.. indepence is an investment, to get it you have to give or face the consequences.

>>33518435
Yep, it seems that 24 was an old stimation, but still, how many F-35 does the UK have in Service today, in 2017, that could fight in this war.

>>33518015

It was for the French bussiness that were making the exocets and ultimately for nothing since Argie incompentence actually protected the exocets from being shut down(I don't remember the details though)

The last thing we need is more europeans killing eachother while arabs and pakis laugh their way to the welfare store.

It would be a Falklands 2 though, for sure. Spain could take the peninsula with mass force, we are talking about really small chunk of land, literally a fucking rock, right on the border. Take it quick, then wait until the ghurkhas come i guess.

But spanish men are overall massive unpatriotic pussies. I know two spanish soldiers, great guys, but the types to enlist are very rare. Spain doesnt have a resevoir of tough and dumb young men to draw from the rural areas (rural areas utterly devoid of young men now), and their foreign legion is mostly colombians and other south americans

>>33518483

Something between 8-16 +3.

Most of the air fighting would be done by Typhoons and Tornadoes.

>>33518515

Against Typhoons and Hornets. And five Aegis cruisers.

>>33518504
>It would be a Falklands 2

False

Gibraltar is not an island, is connected to the rest of the country so you can't simply control it with the navy, nor expect logistical problems.

Another difference is that this time would probably imply the other branches and not only the air forces and some parts of the navy.

And the technological gap is not so huge as the training, since no conscripts would be involved in either side and both have special forces that have deployed in the sandbox in international missions.

>are. Spain doesnt have a resevoir of tough and dumb young men

Yes it has, also a bigger gene pool than a island full of inbreds.

I bet the british are quite vulnerable to biological weapons...

>foreign legion

Is just that, the legion, it stoped being a foreign legion long ago.

>foreign legion is mostly colombians and other south americans

That was in pre-crisis times, when only junks and inmigrants entered the army since most people could make around 2000-3000 euros on the street easily, so the standards were very low to fill the quotas.

Now, most people who enter the army are composed of university graduates, people who spends years just preparing to pass the tests and who are clearly fit since the medics can be very selective with candidates because they can find replacements easily.

Now, south americans can still apply but the standards haven't been lowered for them, they compete in equal conditions but are only allowed to enter very specific jobs and in low number(from 1500, think that around 20 south americans can enter if they demonstrate they can outcompete the nationals... and they can't of course)

>>33518577

I bet the pérfidos wouldn't hesitate to nuke some peninsular targets.

>>33518614
Let them.

also try to nuke Barcelona and Andalucia, by the time the UN sanctions them back to the stone age we will finally be free from welfare recipients and socialists

>>33518147
America did in Japan, America should have in Korea

>>33518177
You really think that if Britain had lost, say 3 more ships and had been defeated in retaking the falklands, that it would have been left to it?
They may not have nuked buenos-aries like she threatened but i feel like one may have been launched at a military base or somesuch.

>>33518190
If they had used NBC weapons then nuclear weapons would probably follow, maybe she did separately, but as far as i know it was about EXOCET

>>33518486

Well the French perfidiously still actually tried to sell exocets, but MI6 intercepted the shipments en route after spying on their factories

>>33518577
Okay, how dedicated are they? Experience? Elan? Last major engagement the spanish took part in was the laughable REF morocco crisis, although im sure theyve had some guys be involved in the war on terror the UK simply has a bigger pool of experienced units with high morale and tradition of kicking uppity swarthy latins to the curb when they get too handsy.

I dont think Spain nor UK have a will to fight, as a whole, though. This isnt Argentina in the 80s, full of a nationalist fervor. Spaim would IMMEDIATELY see ETA cells reactivate given the chaos, Catalunyan political revolt, Andalucian hesitance and laziness.

>>33517497
every country has to agree to a country exiting the EU, just one no vote can scuttle the entire thing. I can see Spain threatening a no vote if they don't get Gibraltar

>>33518713
Not true, the country has the right to decide to leave, its the new terms between the EU and Britain that spain can sabotage

>>33518713
Anyone can leave as they like, it's the terms afterward that must be agreed on.

The UK can be a very cynical country when it comes to foreign policy and it would not be beyond them to pump millions into Moroccan terrorism to start blowing up Melilla and Ceuta.

>>33517948
>>it really is "he said, she said" bickering

Not even that, the spanish goverment had said nothing about vetting anything or anyone (like with the Scotland veto) nor even London said anything, apart from the "if they try to take it by force we'll defend it" it's so plainful obivious doesn't deserve a comment, no one is going to try to take anything by force.

This shitstorm is completely manufactured and run by the tabloids.

>>33518790
Unofficially of course

Same country that left the parting shot to India which ruined their chances of ever becoming a superpower.

And who caused South African Boers system to collapse in revenge for independence by having mining companies import more black people.

Or who imprisoned an entire region of malaya to defeat communists

And crushed the testicles of mau mau rebels

But countries cant get away with much anymore

>>33518322
Spain doesn't have an efective air defense.

Well we have the f100 with aegis and patriots batteries and such but rest assured, as soon as the hostilites break in the kill switches mounted on these systems will go "on" and the Storm Shadow rain will begin unopposed....

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>>33518473
>injustice and malicious use of bureaucracy are okay because they should have expected that

>>33518831
That's just the surface.

They convinced Eisenhower that their methods in Iran were anti Communist and supporting a coup was necessary. Eisenhower not only agreed to it, he financed it. Then, when the British hatched a plan they had it carried out by Roosevelt's grandson - their own agents waited in the background to see if it was working. If it failed, they'd alert the Iranians and bide their time. As it worked, they stuck the knife in and had their own way with Iranian oil for decades. It didn't cost them a thing.

>>33518454
>>You threatened the scotish that if they wen the indepence route they would have to go out of the EU and wait in line to join again

Nope, the Spanish official posture is: An independent Scotland can apply joining the EU as long as their independece is gain by a referedum authorized by London <-This is the important detail, a mutual declaration of indepence is not a problem for Spain.

There are no fasttrack to EU membership because that mechanism doesn't exists, to begin with, but you can reapply and go through all the steps like everybody.

The big nono, the one who will get you a veto, is gaining idependence through an unilateral declaration, force or something like that.

That scenario doesn't exists on the Scotland case.

>>33518566
The Aegis will be moored and their radars will be off. Same goes for the patriot batteries.

Washington will make that sure.

>>33518879
America has been useful, the UK didnt even need to get involved in Vietnam in order to protect its trade in SE Asia
Much of the vital rubber produced in nearby Malaya was owned by Britain, the Americans did it instead because they were convinced Japan could be under threat.

Lets not forget encouraging India to provoke conflict with the Sikhs

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/14/david-cameron-inquiry-british-role-amritsar-attack-sas

>>33517889
The Royal Navy needs it for its military value, and controlling the strategically important Straight of Gibraltar is a huge plus. I feel more comfortable with Gibraltar in the hands of Bongistan--they're more able to protect regional trade.

>>33518790
>The UK can be a very cynical country when it comes to foreign policy and it would not be beyond them to pump millions into Moroccan terrorism to start blowing up Melilla and Ceuta.

Morocco doesn't need money or help for doing that, we get the "you should get along with us or we could start not cooperating with you on security and bad things could happen in Spain" from Rabat constantly.

About Ceuta y Melilla, they are worth something because they are part of an european country with money, there's shitton of people who literally live from leeching them (the frontier passes there are the only ones in the entire EU that can be crossed by Moroccans without a Visa) the pseudo-smuggling of goods from the cities is a *huge* part of the economy of part of Morocco. If we go "fuckit, you can have them" and leave, well, there will be revolts or worse.

If Rabat really want Ceuta and Meilla they can take them by force tomorrow morning and Spain can't really do anything to stop them.

>>33517897
Kek how can moors even compete?

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>This kills the SPAF

>>33519339

Some slight inaccuracies in that. They're 8,500 tonnes and can go at over 30 knots, not 27.

Honestly, the naval war ends the moment the subs leave base. Once Astutes and Trafalgars are in the water, the Spanish Navy will be in port for fear of being hatefucked.

Without the navy, the UK has complete dominance of the area around Gibraltar and can reinforce at will on a short area of defence. Spain doesn't have anything like a force that can kick in a reinforced door like that.

>>33518639
They would NEVER have nuked over the Falklands. Nukes are weapons of last resort. All Thatcher did was allegedly bluff the French PM. FYI neither governments have ever confirmed it even happened you are clinging on to the memoirs of the French PMs aide and that is all. Prove me wrong.

Using nukes for a low scale war such as the Falklands would have been political suicide. For thatcher and the country. It would have set a precedent for nuke use in low scale conflicts and they would have been used by anyone who had them. Britain would have ceded the Falklands before nuking Argentina it was not in the interests of the country. Fuck i can't believe you honestly think we would use nukes for anything but MAD.

>>33519448

>Prove me wrong, surely there must be more evidence which would obviously not be highly classified

It would set a worse precedent if we had not, not only would Britain have been defeated by a 2nd world country , but it sends the message that Britain will not defend itself . Losing the falklands would have been politically worse than using a powerful bomb on an enemy military base.

If the precedent was set then that leaves (then) Hong kong, Gibraltar, Cyprus bases, Bermuda etc up for grabs, perhaps even anglo investments in less stable countries.

Eisenhower developed this theory for the use of nukes in low scaleconflicts, he threatened the chinese with them over the taiwan straights for example.
But if two sides with nukes come up against each other then there is the MAD situation so neither can be used, however if only one side has nukes it should play its cards.

>>33518630
>UN sanctions without USA saying its ok
>USA putting sanctions on Dad

Pretty sure if the EU Army (Spanish division) decide to try and take a little bit of shitty land from the Bongs, who let's face it, really like having little shitty bits of land, then the bongs will take it back, even if all the EU decides to help Spain, the USA will show up with a CBG or two to lay down the law.
Or better yet, just suggest it's leaving nato and begin to move its own troops from countries that border less favourable places.

>comparing the Falklands to HK

You can't prove me wrong then, that is all you are going on. Just making sure you knew. Can't you see the difference between threatening a third party in private to actually nuking the enemy? Using a Nuclear bomb on Argentina who was supported by pretty much all of south America; Looked favorably on by the administration in US (Hence no help) would have been incredibly stupid from a political point of view. Back to the original quote. "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."

forgot to link
>>33519516
>>33519606

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>>33519606
>Argentina who was supported by pretty much all of south America
so nobody then

>>33519606

I get the impression that you read nothing, do you not know what a hypothetical situation is? Do you not understand the differing circumstances under which in one case one may threaten and in the other one may seriously intend?

Most of south america didnt care, the American opinion did not matter as they were not inclined wither way and Britain is not a bloody vassal state, and the political repercussions of losing the falklands would have been immense

>>33517897
DAMN
At first I thought it was going to be nothing, but thank God I'm wrong and we'll get a beautiful Gibraltar War 2: EU Boogaloo

As for OP, realistically if Spain aimed to actually invade it there would be a pretty swift response from Britain, who would likely send marines and ships as a counter force. This would -likely- end up in a stalemate for a few days as the harbors are defended by British troops, and if either side escalates it then it would not be impossible to see Britain attack other parts of Spain to draw forces away.

If we want to get really autistic, the EU continues to escalate the issue with multinational troops entering the combat space, followed by Britain recieving help from the US and potentially other countries. In the midst of all of this, Russia takes Lithuania, Estonia, Finland, Ukraine and helps America + Britain.

>>33519750
They would have if we nuked them like in the hypothetical situation you are talking about you RETARD

>>33519769
EU is going to help no one, Germany, Poland or Greece is not going to send troops to die defending La Linea or Algeciras, their voters never will allow that. They try to deescalate or just look for an excuse to not intervene.

Like the 2008 crisis shown at the first problems or risk, everybody in the EU will be for themselves first, second and third.

>>33520170
Exactly why I said if we wanted to get really autistic

The entire thing would realistically be de-escalation since neither country would bother unironically fighting over that rock, unless it was a real war.

>>33519791
calm down autismo
They may have cared if we nuked a base but they would only have cared enough to react if we nuked a city

>>33517841
It's a nice rock.

>>33518504
Spain has a foreign legion?

>>33518713

That's BS you dumbass.

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>>33517897
EU btfo

>>33518145
Are you dense? It's basically stop using your effective weapons or we will uses our vastly superior weapons, also known as an ultimatum

Brexit is making things difficult because the vast majority of Gibraltar citizens voted in staying in the EU because they depend on workers from Spain and pretty much everything else as well. Brexit would be a disaster to the place. hell, they even park their cars in the Spanish side of the border. So Spain being threatening is just more shit on top of the already shitty Brexit situation for them. Their economy can completely fucking collapse over this.

But hay, people wanted nationalism, so now they get nationalism related problems like European countries hating each other over territorial and trade agreements.

>>33524768
>brexit means they are out of Schengen
Luckily they are less retarded than you >>33517897