Was it perfect the way it was? Did it need to be "upgraded?"

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>>33492410
American "upgrades" no
Canadian upgrades yes

>>33492466
C7s are t3h s3cks

>>33492410
Aesthetically? No, there are very few things as fucking amazing as that fucking rifle.

But many of the additions were for the better.

>>33492675

Such as?

>>33492466
This. C8 a best.

>>33492410
No, it didn't. If we were using Colt 653s with a flat top everything would be perfect.

>>33492745
The only thing a 14.5" barrel is best at is killing effective range.

>>33492466
>that improper grip
>female
disregard.

All the design improvements yes
>Full mag fence
>Reinforced receiver
>Bird cage flash hider
>Improved furniture
>Dead stop buffer
>Maybe picatiny

But the questionable ones shouldn't exist
>Non chromed bolt
>Bee smasher forward assist
>Muh burst
>Direct shit impingement

>>33492752
C8 is 15.7

>>33492757
>improper

lel

>>33492763
C8A1/A2 is 14.5", the C8 SFW is 15.7".

>>33492759
>Reinforced receiver
I really don't see why people think this was at all necessary.
>Direct shit impingement
What a good way to show how retarded you are.

>>33492410
should have just adopted the FAL in .270, then you wouldnt have had to go through the headache of swapping ammo, and making it work.

Men died cause of your burger hubris.

>>33492797
Here goes a fucking Euro shooting his mouth off about something he doesn't know about. Typical.

>>33492781
People were splitting their magwells using the rifle to break their fall when diving to prone (as was taught).

It's a total nonissue with current proning techniques.

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>>33492410
no. rifle was fine.

>>33492842
>People were splitting their magwells using the rifle to break their fall when diving to prone (as was taught).
I'm going to need a source on that.

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>>33492410
It's kind of hard to say. On one hand, people bitch about the cartridge being ineffective, and the inherent negatives of direct impingement, but for fuck's sake the goddamn thing is outrageously popular and did a fucking good job of keeping up with modern trends. That M16 fits the combat theories of its time as much as my AR15 fits the modern theories of today.

>Direct impingement is fucking disgusting
Yeah, I can see that, but my WASR shits all over itself also. The BCG is coated in carbon where gas blasts into the receiver from the gas tube, and there's more often than not case sealant fucking EVERYWHERE. DI may result in carbon buildup, but it's mostly in key spots and not a thick coating everywhere like people try to imply.

>>33492724
a cleaning kit

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>>33492953
>The BCG is coated in carbon where gas blasts into the receiver from the gas tube
It's mostly from the chamber.

>>33492757

>"improper"

disregard

>>33492797

I hope you mean .280

>>33493378
Hell nah, a FAL in .270 Winchester. Imagine it.

>>33493455

It's not that I don't like the idea, it's that the receiver/action would have to be extended by another 1-2 inches.

>>33493211
Potato, potato in this case.

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>>33492884
>tfw you bought into the self cleaning rifle meme

The bolt takes too much of the wear of the gun. Bangs hard at the rear and at the front. Bolts crack, wear, break in a matter of 20k median.

5.56mm is great against unarmored goobers, but the moment there's a war between two nations who armor their infantry, they're going to report that 5.56mm just doesn't cut it. 7.62 NATO is not the answer. Long-time mocked "meme" cartridges such as 6.5 will be the solution.

>>33494028
>The bolt takes too much of the wear of the gun. Bangs hard at the rear and at the front. Bolts crack, wear, break in a matter of 20k median.
Know how I know you don't know anything?

>>33494039
I have multiple sources backing up my claims. You could have a cracked bolt in your AR RIGHT NOW and not know it.

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>you will never get to go human hunting in the jungle with your comrades
>you will never be required to bring back heads/bodies to prove you actually got kills

why live?

>>33494104
>you will never go on ultra dangerous illegal missions into Laos hunting for Soviet Advisors
.__.

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What are you referring to? That specific transitional XM16E1 in your pic that was hardly fielded? The A1 that was the reason for its mouse-fart of an issue length? Vietnam M16s in general?

Assuming you meant the A1 or the baseline features of the 'Nam-era rifle, the only updates they should have made to it before MIL-STD-1913 became widespread were the tubular handguards that weren't side-dependent, the delta ring, and the flash hider. Every other aspect that the A2 added should have never been a thing.
>>33492759
>>33492842
Oh no, it's retarded.

>>33492410
I am fond of bigass charging handles and 30 round mags. Rifle is otherwise fine.

>>33492410
>Badass combat pose in 'Nam, firing M-16, got aesthetic helmet graffiti.
>Wears watch on the inside of his wrist like a girl.

6/10

>>33494028
>this meme cartridge that is markedly slower than 5.56 will defeat armor better
kek

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>>33494479
>Lel it's slower and won't punch armor

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>>33494011
>implying

>>33494516
A slower, larger projectile is worse for penetration of armor than a faster, slower projectile. This is a fact. Don't be dumb.

>>33494613
>Full-size rifle cartridge
>Doesn't harm body armor

Ok

>>33494104

t. someone who has never been to war

glad I lost a leg for you pieces of shit, jesus

>>33494585
what is this from

>>33492772
>>33493339
Kill yourselves

>>33494634
Its base physics.
>larger cross section=more psi needed to penetrate.
>ideal armor penetrator
>tiny cross section, high velocity.

>>33494613
>faster, slower projectile

lol try again dude

The heavier barrel and rear sight of the A2 were good ideas, the lengthened buttstock not so much. The A2 forend was too damn fat.

>>33494265
>wears watch on inside of wrist like a girl
2/10 made me reply to your b8

>>33492759
>improved furniture

Nah familia, the only thing that improved in that regard was the non manlet sized stock. Other than that a1 furniture is far more comfy

>>33494649
Read the fucking filename.

the improvement that should've been done was not fucking with the ammo.
also, what was the rationale for 20rnd stick mags vs (now) normal 30rnd curved mags?

>>33494677

If you're going to just say base physics, then might as well also talk about F=MA and drag.

>>33492974
M16A1 had
>cleaning kit
>chromed bore and chamber (better extraction hardier against fouling and corrosion)
>heavier buffer (to bring down the cyclic rate to normal
>forward assist (because someone thought it was a good idea for some reason)
>eventually gets a birdcage hider

>>33494654
holding the magwell is completely reasonable and does not cause malfunctions in a rifle that isn't having malfunctions in the first place.

>>33495318
Probably because the M14 used 20rd mags, and all the other NATO rifles at the time used 20rd mags (FAL, G3, etc).

Of course, the cartridge was thinner and lighter, so it wasn't long until aftermarket 25rd and 30rd magazines came out (which you'd occasionally see guys use in Nam', they'd order them from home). They're straight like the 20rd ones, but longer. No clue about their quality but it can't have been worse than the original issued 20rd mags, as those weren't made to be reused, rather dropped in the field like a stripper clip (but of course that makes the bean counters cry, and it just didn't fit in logistics to go through magazines that fast, so people had to either reuse these or use no magazines). Later 20rd mags would be proper reusable, and later 30rd curved mags too, on top of having better feed geometry (as the 5.56mm is slightly tapered).

I think it went on to 30rd partially because they figured it should be able to fill subgun duty (eeeh), but partially since it worked fine for the AK and I figure they wanted to meet that.

>>33495701
Holding the magwell when you have 20" of barrel with handguards in front of you gives you subpar control over the rifle.

>>33492953
1) It's not Direct Impingement, Stoner called it "a true" Gas Impingement but I don't feel it differentiates it from the MAS or Ljungman enough, since the action is radically different, I'd rather call it something like "Gas Expansion" as he makes note of the gas expanding inside the bolt carrier.

2) It really isn't that dirty, most of the carbon is inside the bolt carrier, which is hardened for this.

3) Just to compare, the G3 and HK33 is miles filthier because you'll actually get a shitton of gas back into the receiver (this isn't a problem however), it's fun to see people who knows nothing of either the M16 or HK33 say the latter is cleaner.

>>33492797
>muh tilting bolt 5 MOA shitbox
No thank you.

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>tfw ywn have a little friend
>tfw ywn have a friend

>>33492759
Gas system is perfect, you're just a retard.

A2 furniture is really not better, aside from maybe the longer length of pull.

Burst is indeed senseless for a combat rifle.

>>33495729
Build one.

>>33492752
>The only thing a 14.5" barrel is best at is killing effective range.
This. I have an idea, let's start reducing the barrel length (and thus velocity) and switch to shitty ammo with poor bullet upset until we have a combination that is about 50% as effective as what we originally designed. Sound good?

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>>33494772
The A2 barrel profile isn't really well thought out, they should either have stuck with the A1 pencil profile or given it a proper hbarrel.

Burst cam can go and fuck off, and while I like the A2 sights, I think the later M4 style of collapsing stock would make for a good improvement in general usability.

>>33495350
But ek=1/2mv^2
>double the mass means double the kinetic energy
>double the velocity means quadruple the kinetic energy
That's why modern tanks shoot sub-caliber penetrators with sabots at insane speeds, rather than big 120-140mm wide chunks of metal

Anybody have any suggestions on a finish that's close to the shade of grey they used on M16A1s?
I'm slapping an A1 upper on a spare A2 lower while I wait 8 excruciating months on a proper Nodak lower.

>>33495712
ok if you have fucking gorilla arms but for even some of us manlets its way more comfy to hold the magwell.. not all of us are built for autistic overhand grips

>>33495774
>overhand grip
You can hold it from the underside.

Are you seriously like 4ft tall or something?

>>33495774
Do you also hold a broom with both hands close to eachother?

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>>33495773
Just rattle can it since it's a placeholder. Try placing a WTB ad for your lower, I got my A1 lower off the AKfiles marketplace

>>33492410
The adjustable stock, flat top for optics, and fencing were all objectively superior improvements

Everything else though, not really honestly, especially getting rid of the pencil weight barrels and adding the "please fuck up my rifle even worse" button.

>>33492752
>>33495741
You have to be 18 to post here.

>want to build retro
>either want slick side or C7 upper because I am a special snowflake
>no one even sells slick sides, DPMS stopped making C7 uppers, so they went from like $50 in 2014 to $150+ now
>repro lowers would be like $180 and a ridiculous wait time
>could just use a a2 lower and save some money, but would get endlessly bullied for using a superior lower design :^
>would cost olike $900+/a year to actually build it right
>could literally buy anything else for $900 like a ptr or arx100


J U S T F U C K M Y S H I T U P F A M

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>>33492845
The A2 was an improvement in every way over the A1. Stop being a shitty hipster who sucks Colt's dick for FREE, loser.

>>33496278
>govt profile barrel
>improvement
nice maymay

>>33496278
>in every way
In many ways, the heavier barrel really didn't do much outside of making the rifle slightly heavier.
>Muh accuracy increase
Was mostly thanks to the better twist rate, if they had the same twist than the accuracy difference would be negligible.

>>33495693
>forward assist (because someone thought it was a good idea for some reason)

Someone told me it was because soldiers were told to keep their bolt closed while wading to keep water out, but pulling the bolt back makes a loud noise so GIs would guide the bolt forward and use the forward assist to quietly finish the loading process.

Sounds like fuddlore though.

>>33496278
>in every way
for every one genuine improvement it brought to the table there were two retarded things that actually made it worse than its predecessor. the A2 is honestly impressive in how much of a fuckup it is, from the shittiest burst-cam ever fielded to the pantsonhead barrel profile that literally does nothing but add deadweight.

>>33496313
Maybe because there is no way to press check with a rifle that doesn't have a reciprocating charging handle and sometimes the bolt might need a nudge? The real fuddlore is that the assist does nothing and/or that it will make your rifle KB.

>>33494159
I forget, why do you hate a2 sights again? I like them well enough.

>>33494011
>implying it isn't

>>33494104
fuck the rhodie camo i want that tiger stripe

>>33494104
and whats the camo on the right called?

>>33496475
Good for target rifles on the range. Shit for combat rifles in the field where you don't have the luxury of targets at preset distances and can easily knock the fuckhuge adjuatments.

>>33496526
This
Tigerstripe will always be one of the most aesthetically pleasing camos there is

>>33496529
>A2 sights are easy to accidentally knock out of what they're set at

Why do people do this? Just tell lies on the internet?

>>33492466

>canadian
>fat ginger woman
>trying to tacticool like it's an ak

I can't wait to put my flamethrower to use on the day of the leaf.

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>>33494113

>hunting commies

Soon.

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>>33496582
i love the smell of burning leaves in the morning. smells like...victory...

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>>33492757
When she puts the stock under he lbv because she doesnt know how to properly shoulder a weapon.

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>>33496577
Yeah, totally didn't happen to me or anything by just thwacking my upper against a wooden post at the range accidentally when having it slung over my shoulder. It's not like the A1 sights are objectively simpler and less resistant to shifts from impacts or anything either. You win anon, relatively complicated target sights in combat when things like battle zeroes exist totally aren't stupid.

>>33496577
>A2 sights are easy to accidentally knock out of what they're set at
If all it takes is you gripping a big knob with your thumb and forefinger and applying a bit of pressure, there are a million other external forces that can do it too. Why do you think combat optics typically don't have big exposed adjustment knobs.

>>33493455
>>33493536
Holy fuck, imagine walking into a field of automatic .270win fire, nothing is fucking safe

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>>33496589
RWDS soon

>>33492757
>>33496602

Well, it seems to be working well for her.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/canadian-markswoman-outshoots-700-international-sharpshooters-1.3175949

>>33496529
>can easily knock the fuckhuge adjuatments.
I'll admit that I hate the M16 because I had to carry it in the sandbox and use it but you are one full of shit mother fucker. Those sites are not very easy to knock around

>>33496851
> I hate the M16 because I had to carry it in the sandbox and use it
Lmao, try harder nig.

>>33496779
This upsets me

>>33492724

1/7 twist instead of 1/10 for longer/heavier bullet accuracy

Thicker barrel so it doesn't heat up and lose accuracy as fast

Modular foregrip for strapping tacticool bull shit to

Rail instead of fixed rear sight on upper receiver for being able to replace the sights

Probably tougher plastics but I don't know this

That's all I can remember without looking it up

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>>33497184
>Thicker barrel so it doesn't heat up and lose accuracy as fast
The only part of the govt. profile barrel that is thicker is the part least impacted by heat.

>>33497184
>1/7 twist instead of 1/10 for longer/heavier bullet accuracy
It was 1/12". Never 1/10".
>Thicker barrel so it doesn't heat up and lose accuracy as fast
The 645 didn't add wall thickness to the barrel where it actually mattered, it put it where dumb military armorers thought it should go.
>Modular foregrip for strapping tacticool bull shit to
Literally no reason they couldn't put a RAS on a 603.
>Rail instead of fixed rear sight on upper receiver for being able to replace the sights
I'll agree that the flat top was an upgrade.
>Probably tougher plastics but I don't know this
It's been the same Zytel polyamide since the 60s.

>>33496851
>I hate the X because I had to carry it in the sandbox
This is what every teen that has never served says in order to give some weight to their shitty weapon opinions

>>33496640
SAWs in .270 WM...
Fund it!

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>>33496313
Hmm this might not be 100% retarded

>live inna-house
>thief breaks in
>don't keep rifle loaded because reasons
>pull bolt back, guide it in and use the forward assist to quietly load instead of making it go CH-CH like a shotgun and revealing to the thief that you're armed

You could argue to keep your rifle loaded at all times but some people aren't comfortable with that (kids, roommates, etc) or state laws might have issues with that.

>>33496278
>burst-cam
>let's make the barrel thicker because of metal shavings

The handguards are better on the a2 though, if less a e s t h e t i c

>>33497370
You could argue that making an audible "CH-CH" sound will probably be enough to solve your problem unless the person who broke into your house did so specifically to murder you rather than steal your stuff.

>>33497429
Or it could make an armed person on edge and more ready to shoot your ass if you come around the corner. I personally don't want to take that gamble.

>>33497429
And then you fire both barrels as a warning shot

Thanks joe

>>33496313
I'm not going to bother to look up the video but training then did say to pull back the bolt to allow water to drain from the barrel.

Interesting tip for people with rifle length ARs, the screw on the rear of the buffer tube has a hole to allow for it to be drained in such circumstances as well. It also shoots gun smegma back on your shoulder if your return spring has grease or deposits on it.

>>33497215
no pics of the A1 msd?

but seriously, what happens to the operators hand when the barrel kabooms?

>>33497761
Inside the handguard like that? Probs nothing.

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>>33494028
>5.56
>not good against armored targets
>suggests 7.62 NATO, a slower round

Ask me how I know you're a fucking dumbass

>>33496278
I like the A2, but
>burst

>>33495729
If you can pull a bunch of money out of your ass you can buy the original one
http://jamesdjulia.com/item/1703-396/

>>33494265
Soldiers wear watches on the inside of their wrists sometimes. It is better protected from damage, like smashing it against a rock and breaking it

M16A3 is the GOAT

>>33492410
Why the fuck is the A2 buttstock gray and have a fibrous texture to it? It's probably the only thing I'd change on my AR. Any oil or anything that touches it leaves a dark stain on it and it looks like shit

What do?

>>33497959
>says that 7.62 is not the solution
ask me how I know you're illiterate

>>33496620
Seems like a ball-detent or something to require a more deliberate action to adjust windage wouldn't be out of place.

>>33496527
erdl

>>33498079
Holy shit, that's totally as secure as a peg detent that needs a bullet tip to depress instead of mere forward/backwards movement!
>>33496637
>Why do you think combat optics typically don't have big exposed adjustment knobs.
Clearly unrelated.

>>33497072
with a standard handguard holding the mag well give best theoretical accuracy. also consistent rifle grip in any position, prone, offhand, kneeling. Putting the stock under her kit means she can practice not in kit and still get same shoulder placement. It's all in the name of being the same for every single shot.

>>33497761
>what happens to the operators hand when the barrel kabooms?
Probably depends on the KB, the handguards, whether the user is wearing gloves etc. etc.

>>33498018
The butt looks like the one at the bottom.

Should I paint it black, or just try to find a new stock?

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>>33498235
Forgot pic

>>33495781
Spacing hands with the broom is easier because it provides more leverage at the cost of more distance traveled.

Therefore according to your logic you should hold the broom from the tip because that is the manly way which requires more strength.

Holding from the magwell provides superior stability when you have to fire upright without support since you can brace your elbows against your body.

>>33497985
Also prevents reflections off the glass face and allows you to check time while shouldering your rifle.

>>33492410
Literally the only upgrade that would make sense for the A1 would be a drop in railed handguard and flat top receiver once optics and lights/IR lasers became standard issue. Otherwise the A1 could have served into the 90s. The A2 did nothing to upgrade the A1, only change around some parts.

>>33492797
M16 is objectively superior in every way to FAL. Muh RFN isn't an argument.

>>33492410
Why did they leave the barrel thin inside the handguard but thick outside of it on the A2? It'd make infinite more sense to do it the opposite way.

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>>33496779
Delet this

>>33498304
This, the A2 should have been a flat-topped 20" that came around in the late 90s rather than the abortion we got in the early 80s.
>>33498331
Because Marines are objectively retarded nd don't know what fulcrums are and can't tell the difference between a bent barrel and a fouled up gas port.
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a168577.pdf

>>33494070
Then post them faggot.
>>33494637
Dank u 4 ur sisters cervix
>>33494772
A2 sights are not necessary. I can agree with the large/small aperture over what the A1 had, but full on target sights that are never used was just dumb.
>>33496278
The A2 is shit. The only improvements on it are the handguards, and -maybe- the longer buttstock.

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>>33497342
That's not a SAW, that's a full on GPMG.
>mfw 240L in .270 WIN

>>33497761
Their fingers kaboom off their hand. Or they're just burned, depends on the size of the failure.

>>33498408
Fuck it, my next AR is going to be what the A2 would have been in a world without Marines. A1 but with a flattop and KAC quad rail. I'm jumping timelines and making the M16 great again.

>>33496313
>GIs would guide the bolt forward and use the forward assist to quietly finish the loading process.
PSG1 has a forward assist type button for that exact reason.

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>tfw constantly regret making a tacticool middy instead of making an A2 clone

Live and learn

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>>33498504
> a world without Marines.
Just imagine it...

>>33498583
No muh rifleman memes, no M27, the Army would have access to MARPAT because the Marines copyrighted it like the fucking premadonna faggots they are.

It would be great.

Although for my build I just realized I need to find a flat top upper with no shell deflector.

>>33496589
Holy fuck, it's the 8-Bit Guy!

>>33498408

>http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a168577.pdf

The Mellonics report is nothing more than a hatchet job. It was purchased by the Army so they would have an excuse to not buy a weapon developed by another branch. The funny thing is even the Army ignored it and purchased their first batch of A2s a month after the report was released.

>>33492410
Several things to consider.

A2 fucked up many things, that's one.

A2 also fixed some stuff.

The reality is that it would make decent use of shell deflector, different sights(I wouldn't say A2 are optimal though, something simply as fuck, like flip 100-300 yard/metre battle sight that's zeroed by armourer would probably be better than both) and there was that problem of bent barrels(hence why it got thicker only in the front end of the barrel - elsewhere the handguard kept the barrel from bending) but seriously it were only paratroopers and air cav complaining about those, they could've just get parts kit with thicker overall barrel profile(on top of turning it into carbine). The ammunition has changed so it should've accommodated it too(that's a given so really not worth mentioning). Handguard is pretty as fuck but it's not really ergonomic. Forward assist could as well go, there are some uses for it, but seriously, it's not that needed.

What's would be more useful would be second look at AR10 as they were looking for some semi-auto sniper rifle/DMR and M14 was really never meant to be accurate and yet the army sank tons of money into it. That's actually super fucking weird because normally you'd think marines would do something as retarded as this and yet marines went for the second best option - just adopt good quality bolt-action rifle, and the army followed suit at some point.

>>33498757
>The study is wrong, the barrel profile totally isn't dogshit, burst fire is dandy, target sights are A-OK on a combat rifle, and one of the A2 designers totally didn't say the entire reason their abortion barrel profile exists was because they were retarded and couldn't into gas port cleaning (https://everydaymarksman.wordpress.com/2015/04/23/origin-of-the-government-profile-barrel/)
>Why? Because I say so and procurement.
Awesome post brah.

>>33498757
>The Mellonics report is nothing more than a hatchet job. It was purchased by the Army so they would have an excuse to not buy a weapon developed by another branch.
>the Army ignored it and purchased their first batch of A2s a month after the report was released.

You see how this doesn't make sense right? Why would Army command "purchase" (it's a report for the Army, by the Army, how is it purchased?) this report and then immediately ignore it?

>>33498794
there was never an issue with bent barrels. there was a burr on the gas port that would collect brass and prevent the straightness gauge from passing through.

>>33498800
You forgot to add unnecessarily long stock that fits no one but giants

>>33498757
>he Army ignored it and purchased their first batch of A2s a month after the report was released.
The DoD forced the Army to adopt it because they didn't want to put up with the hassle of having two different main service rifle variants fielded at the same time. Up until the last hour there were a litany of complaints the Army had, but they eventually just relented. In no way was the report ignored, they just saw there was no one up the chain who gave a shit and that was the only way they were getting new rifles.

>>33498822
This. Marine armorers and Marines in general are retarded. Their SAWs aren't pieces of shit because they're bad, it's because their armorers don't fix them, same for all their broke ass weapon systems. Instead of fixing their shit, they do the retarded thing and waste money testing and buying whole new systems when the old ones wear out. It's literally a nigger mentality.

>>33498822
According to Chris Bartocci there was an issue with bent barrels, but I admit that I haven't done any research past watching his videos on this.

>>33498896
a2 stock is fine when you dont have armor

>>33498898
>The DoD forced the Army to adopt it because they didn't want to put up with the hassle of having two different main service rifle variants
Yeah, because the Joint Service Small Arms Program was in full swing and everything that shot lead and was held by a grunt was being standardized across the branches. Just elaborating on your point.
>>33498919
I think he was referring to intense usage making the thinner A1 barrel sag, and pencil barrels will certainly do that if you get them hot enough. Problem is the Marine "solution" barrel does fucking nothing to prevent that.

>>33498919
https://everydaymarksman.wordpress.com/2015/04/23/origin-of-the-government-profile-barrel/

>>33498947
Pencil barrels don't sag unless you use the rifle like a machine gun.

>>33498975
Right. See "intense usage". Meaning unless you're magdumping for three minutes straight or in a firefight that's lasting all afternoon, it won't be an issue.

>>33498155
>or something

>>33492410
The updates to the A1 design flowed mostly from either Vietnam or had bee thing requested all along. Here are the biggest changes.

>Handguard change
The A1 handguard while aesthetic as hell, has very little grip. While this is fine for a sunny day at the range or shooting inadesert, add something to make the handguard slippery (like water, mud or snow) and you loose your grip on the handguard. Adding the ribs reduced or eliminated this and I think I saw somewhere, they also made them cost slightly less.
>Lengthening the buttstock a little bit
This comes from the jungle fighting that occurred in Vietnam. Very few would wear any form a protective gear, so the length of pull was too short for the average American soldier
>Updated flash hider
This was more a slow evolution of something that needed improvement overall. As there are even differences in the A1 flash hiders.
>Burst vs full auto
This is because it was found during combat, soldiers would just spray and pray instead of aiming. As a consequence large amounts of ammo was waisted.
>Barrel profile change
Mentioned several times already. Blame the Marines. The twist rate change occured because of ammo changes.
>Sight changes
Bother the Marines and the Army wanted better sights with finer adjustments.

If you look at the changes in the context that they were made, they make sense. Later changes also make sense, like flat top receivers and quad rails, but picatiny rails had yet to be crated when the A2 updates where being made.

>>33498896
You have to be at least 5'8" to post on 4chan.

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>>33496779
Btfo Canada stronk

>>33499038
>This is because it was found during combat, soldiers would just spray and pray instead of aiming. As a consequence large amounts of ammo was waisted.
Sounds like old thinking, most ammo expended in combat is simply spent on suppressing.

At any rate, training troops to use semi-auto mainly and to use full-auto in personally controller bursts is just way better.

>>33499038
I'm sure the A2 handguards are more practical and economical, but they just don't feel good in my hands.

>>33498244
What you described is exactly how newly manufactured a2 buttstocks are. You're meant to slap a bit of clp/oil on it to get it to darken.

>>33498328
Folding stocks.
>inb4 B-BUT THEY DONT MATRRDJF
You did say every way.

>>33499197
Folding stocks aren't better than fixed/collapsible stocks.

>>33495693

Why do people constantly shit on the forward assist?

>>33499245
Because it has no practical application.

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>>33499245
Because they're fuddlore-spewing retards who likely don't own an AR and/or haven't shot it a lot.

>>33499197
What is a folding stock good for? Transporting the rifle, jumping out of planes? What else? Nothing. There's no point other than to store the rifle or if you're a parachutist and the M4 collapses down enough that it isn't a problem anyways.

>>33492410
There are some things that haven't been mentioned that are actual upgrades to the A2 standard.

>Handguard
Biggest change for the military is that the triangle handguard requires left and right sets. A2 handguards just use a single type, so you can have less of them on hand.

>Slip ring
A1 slip ring sucks a fucking nut. Delta rings still aren't great to deal with, but they don't suck quite as hard.

>Brass deflector
Please, go shoot an A1 left handed. I mean, yeah, it's kind of ugly, but depending on ammo the AR has a tendency to throw brass straight back in your face.

However, the government profile barrel is, as everyone's said, retarded.

>>33499349
It's real nice for riding in vehicles. Go inside an MRAP and tell me that you wouldn't like your rifle to just be a wee bit shorter.

>>33499099
Even though it is old thinking it has some merit. No matter the training level, all bets are off when there are real bullets coming at you. You panic, you forget tap the trigger and you hold it down till click. I am not saying that training doesn't have its place, but remember, that Vietnam also saw a large number of conscripts. Conscripts don't have the training that a peace time army does.
Vietnam was the war that the A1 was judged by and the A2 was desgined to fight. As with all conflicts, you plan and equip to fight the last war you fought, not the next.

>>33499367
I guess, but with an FAL it'll still be a fucking long rifle. So in the context of the discussion the folding stock means nothing.

>>33494649
Boku no Pico

>>33499470
Think of it this way: A full-length folding stock FAL is about the length of an M1 Garand with stock extended, and about the length of an M1 Carbine with stock folded. Obviously, the weight doesn't change, but that 10 inches makes a world of difference in vehicles.

>>33499197
Oh shit, a feature that's bizarrely overrated on full-sized rifles, gotta have it!

>>33499505
Obviously, but the argument is M16>FAL. The rebuttal was folding stock. Also
>M1
>Stock extended
What?

>>33499505
>>33499558
Nvm, I get what you were saying. Either way if length in a vehicle is an issue, use an M4 which is still shorter.

>>33499267
see
>>33496313
>>33497468
>>33498518

>>33496590
Thats low, even for a burger

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>>33492410
The A2 was an upgrade, just not a very large one.

Improvements:
>1:7 twist
the 1:12 in the A1 was lacking
Reports even say some A1 barrels were actually 1:14 due to manufacturing fuck ups.

>Brass deflector
Every left handed shooter liked this one

>Sights
The A2 sights are easier to use
Faster in adjustment and can be diled in easier.

>Updated Plastics.
The plastics used in the A2 were far stronger and more robust.

>Improved heat treating
The aluminum lower and upper in the A2 were a bit stronger due to updated heat treating

Contested improvements

>Longer stock
Great for tall people like me, but bad for shorter folks.
When heavily geared up, it was an issue for some people.

>Pistol grip
The a1 grip was nice, but became hard to grip when dirty
The A2 grip was far easier to keep a grip on.
However, some didn't like the finger grove

>Barrel
The A2 barrel was stronger and held up to heat better than the A1, but not by much.
The Chrome lining did help against corrosion
The increase in weight wasn't really worth it.
The A2 barrel was originally super badass
They soon realized their grenade launcher wouldn't fit on a heavy barrel
So they made it the wacky Government profile.

The bad:

>Burst cam
Everyone that I've talked to that used an A2 in basic or in combat fucking hated the burst feature
One dude told me they were instructed to fire an entire mag in burst.
They were them told they would never do that ever again.

There are probably things I left out, but the A2 isn't bad; it's just not the huge improvement it could have been.

>>33492759
>But the questionable ones shouldn't exist
>Direct shit impingement
opinion disgarded

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The M16 shouldn't have even existed in the first.

We should have had .280 FALs some ten years BEFORE Vietnam.

>>33500813
We already told you that you were a retard before.

>>33500813
big heavy shit rifle

>>33500813
This is 100% correct.

>>33500842
different guy

enlighten me

>>33501020
Just think of it this way: How many militaries still use a FAL variant?

Keep in mind that the AK and the AR are very frequently used not only with different calibers, but in calibers with drastically different geometries.

>>33501020
>tilting bolt (significantly less consistent lockup, less consistent groupings)
>sight arrangement (sights are on both upper and lower receiver)
>heavy as balls
>magazines are heavy too
>action and stock are not as perfectly inline (thus more recoil, more axis to the recoil, and less tight groupings)
The M16A1 wins out by being lighter and having inherently way better accuracy potential.

>>33498626
>premadonna
>pre
>madonna

what the fuck.

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>>33501149
>Anon made a typo and replaced a single letter in a word
>OMG I must shit post about this

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>>33497959
>5.56 has superior armor penetration than 7.62 NATO

Stupidest fucking thing I read all day.

>>33492410
The A1 was better than the A2 in every way other than the sights and the A2 hand guard was easier to deal with logistically.

>>33501398
>7.62 NATO has superior armor penetration than 5.56
Dumbest fucking thing I have ever seen.

>>33502126
Full.
Size.
Rifle.
Cartridge.

By the way, 5.45 will rip through armor better than 54r. Everyone knows this except you.

>>33501149
Mistakes like that are a diamond dozen.

>>33502169
Do you realize how contradictory you're being right now.

>>33502126
Why the fuck is no one just looking up the penetration ratings for M61 and M995 to end this dumb fucking argument? Best I've found is both penetrate 7mm of RHA at 300m.

>>33496779
rekt

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>>33500813
Wrong, we should have had AR10s

>>33504330
<just like an M-14, but even less controllable in full auto

>>33505391
>AR10
>less controllable in full auto
>than the M14
If you don't understand physics or mechanics then just say so.

>>33507322
because less weight is guaranteed to improve controlability...

>>33505391
I mean let's just compare.

M14:
>stock is low and not inline
>action isn't inline either
>works with a big piston/oprod on the side of the gun

AR10
>stock is completely inline
>action is completely inline
>has no moving piston, there's only the BCG

Then we have the whole thing where the AR10 is well enclosed and protected, while the action of the M14 is as open as your mom's pussy.

>>33507333
>still doesn't get what he's fucking talking about

The M14 has lots of muzzle climb because of bore axis.

The AR10 has basically no muzzle climb at all because everything is completely inline and goes straight backwards and centered with the bore.

>>33498434
Sorry I was at church all day
>>33460358
>>33463849

>>33507345
>a rental range that does mostly full-auto for people who come there to experience full-auto says they're experiencing problems at higher roundcounts doing a lot of full-auto for a weapon that's really not meant for extended uses of full-auto

20 000rds is pretty acceptable at any rate, most people take pretty long to shoot that, on top of the fact that few people shoot full-auto.

>>33494637
Time stamp the nub, then admit you lost it for yourself cause nobody here pushed you into the recruitment center

>>33499038
>This comes from the jungle fighting that occurred in Vietnam. Very few would wear any form a protective gear, so the length of pull was too short for the average American soldier

Citation fucking needed

>This is because it was found during combat, soldiers would just spray and pray instead of aiming. As a consequence large amounts of ammo was waisted.

Citation needed. Increased ammunition expenditure per kill has been a general trend of the 20th century

>>33500813
>he doesn't realize that .280 British is a full power cartridge in the loadings everyone waxes poetic about

>>33492478
>tfw you got to use a beat up 20 year old C7 during conscription used at abused by conscripts for at least 10 years

Some came with chocolate and notes about which NCO still lived with his mom in the stock.

>>33507333
So compare the FG42 and M14 for equal weight so you can see how retarded you are

>>33502169
>says one is better because full sized cartridge
>turns around and says intermediate round has better penetration than full sized cartridge
Do you even think before you type lmao

Short answer is that 5.56 has better penetration.

>>33508286
Nobody had plates in name, flak vests were as good as it got and those were hot as fuck. As for the spray and pray, it's jungle fighting. Wildly hosing down the general direction of enemy fire is going to happen

Also draftees

>>33499038
This whole fucking post is just wrong.

>>33492759

The hell is a bee smasher?

>>33492410
IMO after they figured out that you need to clean it, figured out what propellant to use and put in a forward assist it was Gucci. Rails and variable barrel lengths are a plus too.

>>33508629
>Nobody had plates in name, flak vests were as good as it got and those were hot as fuck.

It can actually get pretty cold in the Vietnamese highlands. Again, citation needed that the A1's length of pull was too short when all the proto-A2 complaints point out that it's uncomfortable long for a good percentile of the population before factoring in webbing and armor.

>Wildly hosing down the general direction of enemy fire is going to happen

Increased ammunition expenditure per kill was a general trend throughout the 20th century. There's not much evidence than Vietnam was particularly anomalous in that regard

>>33509152
They never changed propellant until M855A1.

>>33508295
So how does it stack up anyway? Doesn't it compare to .276 Pedersen (admittedly a pretty good cartridge) or something like that?

>>33509749
This, the propellant was the same overpressure stuff always issued, they just made the buffer heavier to slow the action down, as it'd run extremely too fast in pre-A1 rifles.

>>33510249
Something like that, but one of the complaints was that in the higher velocity loading, it was hard to control full auto.

But plugging the the numbers into a recoil calculator could have told you that bong engineering couldn't magic physics away

>>33510479
.280 probably could have worked ok-ish in an AR10 setup, it's good for recoil.

>>33509152
Cleaning was like the least of the M16's problems pre-A1, magazines and ovepressure ammo was a MUCH greater concern.

>>33510269
Yup, and what do they do when reworking the ammo for the first time in a quarter century? Up the pressure again.

>>33508806
Ar15 literally stopped dead because of a bee
https://youtu.be/VEteC_M1154

>>33510883
Should have used .22 Hornet

>m16
>perfect

Even upgrades are not going to do much help.

>>33511187
Either AK fanboy or H&K salesman.