GIGN replaces 416's with Bren 2 in 7,62x39

>>33478797
>The CZ Bren 2 was developed from the CZ 805 Bren S1 to take part in the French Army Future Infantry Weapon (AIF) programme (which saw the selection of the H&K 416). However CZ was unable to participate in the process as it came in too late. Development on the Bren 2 continued nevertheless and the weapon has now been selected in its 5.56 mm version by the Czech military which will use it as its standard rifle instead of the original CZ 805.
>The Bren 2 7.62 x 39 mm version selected by the GIGN is a compact assault rifle with a nine inch barrel. It comprises a handguard with Picatinny rails which allows for the fitting of a variety of accessories and aiming aides as well as collapsible telescopic stock.
>The GIGN has requested some modifications for its own rifles which comprise a new flash hider designed to be fitted with a sound suppressor. Some of the rifles procured by the GIGN also include a modified gas regulation system allowing for subsonic shooting. The weapon is fully ambidextrous and despite its short barrel, retains its full precision at a range of 400m as confirmed during the GIGN trials.
>CZ is now pitching its P-10 pistol to the GIGN. The company has also offered its Bren 2 7.62 x 39 mm rifle to the French Special Operations Command (COS), arguing that equipping Special Forces with such a rifle would allow for easier interoperability in the field with local forces in Africa or the Middle East however it has not managed to generate the expected interest so far.

LET THE HK FANBOY BUTTHURT START FLOWING.

>G36
Melts
>416
REJECTED FOR GLORIOUS SOVIET 7.62

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>7-7.62x39 is an outdated cartridge, there's no point to it

>>33478797
I can't fault them for going with a cheap, proven option for shooting people within 200m. But god damn if this wasn't an ideal scenario for LWRC's 6.8 rifle.

>>33478816
>>33478817
they should have gotten AKS-74Us and hatchets

>>33478817
I mean, it is an outdated cartridge. But it exists in abundance and works well enough.

>>33478897
>But it exists in abundance and works well enough.
but they won't shoot old surplus out of it
they'll get freshly made brass cased ammo

Does that variant use VZ-58 mags?

>>33478797
For fulfilling the role of what amounts to a SMG on steroids, 7.62x39 is probably one of the best choices available. What kind of load do they plan to use for subsonic 7.62x39?

>>33478797
>https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/landwarfareintl/sofins-french-gign-gets-new-rifle/

>7.62x39

wat

well then, that was unexpected

>>33478916
You are correct. This is a nationally funded counter terrorism unit, they are not going to be shooting wolf polymer performance in these things. I am curious what kind of loads they will use for subsonic, armor piercing, tracer etc.

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>>33478797
Hold the fuck on! Isn't this EXACTLY why 300 memeout was conceived?

And for some reason they didn't go with it?

This has got to be a huge embarrassment to .300!

>>33478797
GLORIOUS CZECHNOLOGY

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>>33478797
>bren in glorious 7.62x39

If it took AK mags I would lose my fucking mind.

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300 blackout BTFO

fug

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7.62x39 revival welcome.

If only they would come to civs.

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>>33478797
>and placed an initial order for 68 units
It's literally nothing

The same guys that use wheel guns for all those contrived reasons, GIGN a shit

>>33478931
no, those are absolutely different weapons, half a century apart from each other

>>33478797
>>33478800
Can't find a French source for this, so it's most likely bullshit, and I sure hope it is. 7,62x39 is a retarded cartridge, its "stopping powah" is fuddlore, and the Bren is one of the worst modern assault rifles out there, if not the worst, right next to the ARX160.

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>>33479481
>the Bren is one of the worst modern assault rifles out there, if not the worst, right next to the ARX160
source: internet memelore

I bet you've never even shot either of those weapons

>>33479053
I doubt a .300 rifle was even offered to the application.
.300 is popular in America (socom is actively looking for one) but isn't heard of in France.

>>33478797
I like the Bren 2. I hope it comes to America.

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Obligatory pic

>>33479053
Czech Republic still has factories making 7.62x39, so they're still making guns in 7.62x39.

>>33478797
>French police are using 7.62x39 after several peaceful attacks against them
About time they start using the caliber of their people

>>33478797
This makes sense for France to do this. They want their refugee population to be comfortable with a round that they are familiar with.

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>>33478797
>7.62x39mm
>Not using Mk.262
>mfw GIGN caters to Muslims.

>>33479481
CZ 805 =/= CZ 806

The first one was pretty much trial model, except that it was forced upon the Czech army, and paid from the pockets of taxpayers, as actual replacement of venerable Vz.58, not to mention that all the flaws had to be pointed out during the regular service.

wait,
if 5.56 had insufficient stopping power vs. plates and 7.62 NATO was too heavy, how on earth would 7.62x39 be able to penetrate plates?

Unless they're talking of less-than IV plates?

>>33478797
Don't African countries usually buy old Soviet stuff?

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But 7.62mm doesn't really produce a bigger wound channel than 5.56mm, especially considering the later's tendency to fragment. Is this accounting post-barrier deformation ?

>>33479582
>Docteur Pavel, je suis GIGN

>>33479812
Given that they adopted a 9" barrel rifle, maybe it's performance out of similar length barrels was lacking (lack of fragmentation?)

>>33479290
It's an initial order dipshit, they're not going to replace the ENTIRE arsenal in one order

>>33479268
.300 Blackout wasn't even offered in the rifles tested and you know it

>>33479820
>old
>Soviet

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>Mk262 14.5"@ 25M
>1150 ftlbs
>7.62x39 16" @ 25M
>1340 ftlbs
Here's a good idea!
F2000 with 18' barrel
Mk262 @ 25M 1239 ftlbs.
WHY DO THE FRENCH SUCK AT MILITARY!?!

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>>33479921
LOOK AT THIS SHIT, WHY THE FUCK ARE SPEC OPS SO RETARDED!?!?

>>33479879
meh, no use trying to figure out what a nationally funded counter-terrorist unit is thinking, since I'm just some fuck on a random website.

Not sure why the 9" barrel. Are they going to be using the 9" barrel Bren in place of rifles as well or just for room clearing?

>>33480043
Read the article

The 9" barrel they tested was accurate out to 400m which is more than enough for the work that they do which is typically <100m

>>33479582
Uuuuh, you don't get to bring your amis.

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>>33478797
>GIGN adopting Russian cartridge
RUSSIAN MEDDLING IN FRANCE CONFIRMED!!! IMPEACH!!! ARREST LE PEN!!! NATIONALIST SCUM ARE PUTINS BITCH!!!

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>>33479582
>vous n'apportez les amis
>vous etes un grand monsieur
>pour vous

>>33478797

It's not even Saturday yet you guys are dumb.

>>33480043
they want a 9inch barrel so they look badass on tv during the next one

>>33479481
have you fired a REAL 805 before?
they are smooth as fuck
like an eastern block SCAR

>>33479706
Is the 806 coming around?

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>>33480975
The 806 is replacing the 805 in the czech army
It is being offered for LE/Military sales as they fulfill that contract, and after that it will probably come to the US for civilian sales

>>33478797
well I guess it is the cheaper option if you just need a rifle to hang your white flag from

>>33481056
Neat, I'll be waiting. Maybe I'll buy an 805 in the meantime.

>>33479481
Bren was shit, Bren 2 has all the issues fixed and is objectively a great rifle.

>>33481225
Don't, wait for 806.

>>33481460
Fair enough, guess I'll find something else to buy for now. Really not interested in ARs, anymore, though.

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>>33481460
Why? What's wrong with the 805?

>>33481493
This. The 806 looks like fucking AIDS. What is wrong with the 805?

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>>33481493
Everything, it was a horrible rifle. 806 is literally just 805 with all the shit fixed.
>>33481470
Get vz.58, Škorpion, the new Scorpion or some nice all metal pistol.
>mfw

>>33481517
Totally forgot about the vz. 58. Is Czechpoint still in business?

>>33481493
>What's wrong with the 805?
>>33481512
>What is wrong with the 805?
>>33481517
>Everything, it was a horrible rifle
Fucking elaborate or it doesn't come off my 'want' list. I'm with te other guy, the 806 looks like ass.

>>33481517
>Everything
That's not an answer fuck wad.

>>33478797
GIGN did not deploy in the November 2015 attacks, and neither did the 416.

The theater was taken by RAID, whom found their weapons perfectly satisfactory. Everything about this article is stupid lies.

>>33481547
I think the 806 looks fine.

>>33481547
It's got no bolt release, the bolt catch sucks, and it's heavier than it needs to be.

>>33481547
>>33481548
Wobly stock, shitty original mags, double feeds, bad gas regulator, out of spec rails, useless 2 round burst, can't field strip BCG, BCG grinds the receiver and shits metal shavings everywhere in the rifle, front heavy, heavy, huge recoil for a 5.56 rifle

>>33481597
And the 806 fixes all of that?

>>33481629
Yes, it's the point of the new model.

>>33481597
>Wobly stock,
Is it actually wobbly or do you just not like that it doesn't lock?
>shitty original mags
Uses AR mags in the US
>double feeds
Bad magazines?
>bad gas regulator
worrying
>out of spec rails
Doesn't seem to be an issue on the US guns. I use M-Lok anyways
>can't field strip BCG
Dont need to.
>BCG grinds the receiver and shits metal shavings everywhere in the rifle
Worrying

I assume you're Czech and have been in the military with that variant then, right?

>>33479481
It's a real information.

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>>33481669
I'm Czech and I read this on Czech gun forums written by mostly people in military and armorers.
Pic is random photo I found there, gun casually breaks a piece of receiver off.

>>33481830
Alright then. Well that sucks because the 806 looks like shit.

>>33481890
That sucks because the 806 isn't available yet.

>>33478797
A Western nation using a Soviet caliber?

A SOVIET CALIBER?!

>>33479856
Ou est Bane?

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>>33481830
I went and did a little digging. It seems the 805s that the Czechs are using are a different rifle than what is on the US market. They have a different butt stock, the receiver looks different, the charging handle is different, and I cannot find a single mention of the issue of receivers breaking on the civilian variants. It may be safe to assume that since the CZ 805 was released in the US fairly recently that those issues may have been addressed and fixed prior to the release of the civilian models in the US.

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>>33482145

>>33482145
Or it may be even safer to assume that military issue rifles see a lot more live fire than the safe queen of some middle aged collector who bought an 805 because it was something new that they were hoping would fill the hole in their life and has only been fired 100 times. How many 805s in the US have actually seen over 1000 rounds, do you think?

>>33479053
Already a long-developed big range of military anti-personal armor and AP ammunition, from Soviet and Chinese to Finns and Mitteleurope.

>>33479481
It would make sense, what with all the middle easterners that'll be making it their military in the next few years being more used to 7.62x39 and all.

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>>33482145
>>33482155
No idea what they sell in the states. The pics you posted look like an early version or a prototype tho. This is how the civilian variant sold here looks like.

>>33482223
Do you think /k/ exists in a vacuum where all gun owners outside of /k/ never shoot their guns? Why would a middle age collector being buying this but not someone who shoots regularly and has a high round count? There are people on /k/ right now who own this rifle and have said it's a great rifle.

The rifle has been in the US for a couple years now and torture testing guns is the latest fad. That means dumb sand and mud tests, but also high round counts because no one bothers to consider a reviewers opinion unless the round count is sufficiently high. Gone are the days of G&A where 100 rounds of premium match ammo is all that's fired through a rifle before an article is written.

On the other side of that argument, if what you say is the case, and every rifle in the country is a safe queen, why does it matter that the military rifles break after 20,000 rounds when they'll apparently never see a round count anywhere near that high?

Or, just maybe, as you can see in the picture, they're 2 separate generations of rifles, and the civilian model has incorporated the improvements of the 806 that was under development when the brought the civilian 805 to the US.

>>33482223
>>33482312

I have no idea who to believe.

>>33482294
That's not the civilian variant, that has a G36 lower. I wish we got that version. I wonder if I can import that.

>>33482312
>There are people on /k/ right now who own this rifle and have said it's a great rifle.
Where are they? I'd like to hear from them.

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>>33482338
Nah, that's not the G36 lower, that's the default lower that takes 805 mags. CZ USA sells the well and mags as a "retro" kit.
https://shop.cz-usa.com/SearchByKeyword?word=805

>>33482294
Pic is from 2010, so not a prototype.
>>33482351
Honestly, so would I. I've been wanting this rifle for a while but also debating on waiting for the 806. I have seen them post in other threads and they said it was a good rifle.

If someone owns this rifle and has first hand knowledge we'd like to hear it.

>>33482380
I thought the Czech rifles used a G36 compatible mag well.

>>33482312
>and the civilian model has incorporated the improvements of the 806 that was under development when the brought the civilian 805 to the US.
Wow, I sure would like to know how you came to this conclusion that you so firmly believe.

I know one person with an 805, he owns a shit ton of guns and the 805 was just another toy to him. It gets shot occasionally, but he owns so many guns that there's no reason for him to obsess over the 805 when there's plenty of other things for him to shoot. That's the kind of people who buy 805s, people who already have a lot of guns and are looking for more variety in their collection.

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>>33482145
>>33482155
The 805 they use looks like pic.
>>33482294
The 805 we get has an AR type magwell and adjustable stock.
>>33482433
The prototype showed off a G36 type magwell but on production versions, it's never been seen.

>>33478797
>new standard assault rifle
>68 units
NIGGER THERE ARE MORE THAN 387 GIGN MEMBERS NOWADAYS. OF WHICH AROUND 200 ARE OPERATORS.
THE ARMORY IS FULL OF MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF GUNS. NOT JUST 416s.
THERE IS NO "STANDARD".

>>33482434
Wow, I sure would like to know why your single anecdotal story is more relevant than my educated guess. That's all my opinion is too. If I were an engineer designing a semi-auto conversion of a military rifle for sale in the US, but also had the next generation with improvements to draw from, I would incorporate those improvements to fix apparent issues with the rifle.

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>>33481517
If you're not gonna elaborate, don't bother responding.

>>33478797
>Bren 2

It looks like you combined an XM8 with a SCAR-L

>>33482434
Either way, this is literally the first bad thing I've ever heard about this rifle from anywhere. I've been on the google machine since I came into this thread looking for other people who may have had these issues, military or civilian variant.

Since there is such a lack of evidence that this is a chronic problem, I'm currently of the opinion that either the issue has been fixed, or it's being exaggerated by our Czech friend.

>>33482380
Wow, those look really close to G36 magazines, I thought they were G36 compatibles.

>>33482380
I wonder if this kit will be compatible with the 806 as well.

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>>33482477
>>33482433
>>33482558
Looking into it, I was wrong, the "retro" magwell is able to take both 805 and G36 magazines.

>>33482638
That's really cool actually. A stack of G36 PMags would looks great with that rifle.

>>33480552
The verb for people is amener

>>33482638
This rifle is looking better and better. About the only thing I'd have to fix is the lack of a bolt release.

Does the 805 have a full auto bolt carrier?

>>33483253
Is there a difference between the semi and FA bolts in the first place? Also, why does it matter? It's not like ARs where everyone and their mother makes BCGs for it.

>>33483303
>Is there a difference between the semi and FA bolts in the first place?
I'm asking.

>>33478817
Anyone who still says this was already proven wrong and is therefore retarded. .300 BLK exists so something like 7.62x39 can be used reliably in an AR, and SOCOM, FBI HRT, and some SWAT... guys (Not sure what they are called. Divisions? Squads? Units?) are all over that.

>>33482145
The one being sold in the states is an "inbetween" model. It incorporates some improvements that were being tested for the 806

>>33483669
That's what I assumed was the case. It makes sense.

>>33479564
So presumably no american contract competitors?

>>33482234
But those seem more or less commited to soviet platforms.

>>33479585
Ahhh, that makes plenty of sense.

>>33481597
>Huge recoil

That is literally a lie.

>>33482638
Funfact: Also takes AUG mags, which was not planned and just accidentally works.
>>33485985
For a 5.56 rife

>>33478797
The article 404's for me.

5.56 absolutely, utterly, irrevocably

BLOWN

THE

FUCK

OUT

PFFFFFFFTTTFTFTFTT HAHAHAHAHA

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>>33478817
It is though.

>>33486301
https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/special-operations/sofins-french-gign-gets-new-rifle/

French ministry of interior also ordered CZ P07's.

>>33479812
7.62x39 is better armour-piercing round than both 5.56 and 5.45, I thought it's a common knowledge at this point.

This applies ESPECIALLY to SBR's like these, since you won't get any fragmentation from 5.56 from 9 inch barrel

>>33480552
Is that Tom hardy?

>>33479074
It takes Magpul AK mags

>>33486447
>7.62x39 is better than 5.56 at armor piercing
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAH stop is boris.

>>33486470
It*

>>33478800
>>33480074
I would be interested in seeing the loading data and the testing criteria for that 400 meter bit. That is stretching the 7.62x39 a bit.
>Yes I have seen the YouTube stuff with people making hits at 1000 with accurized AKs.

>>33478797
What the fuck...
Muh HK

RRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>33486447
>armor piercing
>fragmentation
Ask me how I know you're stupid?

>>33486492
I worded it badly.

Out of 9" barrel the penetration won't be influenced by fragmenting(although ability to do so is one of the reasons why 5.56 is a good cartridge) but it will be so slow that it won't be really worth it. With 7.62 mass plays much bigger role. If you don't understand it - you may have noticed(or not, who cares) that old military firearms(late BP era), firing relatively low-pressure cartridges usually use fuckhuge, heavy bullets. Well there's a reason for it. If you can't achieve huge pressure to get good velocity, you want huge mass. The reason for picking 7.62x39 is exactly this, they won't be getting lots of pressure/velocity out of such short bore, so they need mass.

Now the obvious question is why haven't they picked some 14" bullpup which should have similar length. It's not like GIGN has to care about ability to field strip easily or quick reloads. If they're buying new guns then why the fuck not?

>>33486567
I understand your argument however 5.56 is a much better armor penetrator than 7.62, there are many tests proving it. Human tissue is a whole different ballgame.

>>33486576
Out of a 9" barrel?

>>33486576
So why did GIGN choose 7.62x39 with one of their primary selection criteria being "penetrates armor better than 5.56"? Perhaps you would care to inform GIGN by email that they don't know what they are doing?

If CZ offers a semi auto version to the US, I'm buying one.

>>33486262
>For a 5.56 rife
Literally every one here says it has little recoil.

>>33486576
>5.56 is a much better armor penetrator than 7.62
You have no proof of this.

>>33486567
>why would a force usually in cqb situations need a weapon that doesnt shoot brass in their face

Hmmmmmmm....

>>33478797
Anyone can confirm? I couldn't find another source than this article.

>>33485601
I heard something about how France has a law where its big bois can't buy from companies that are in "warmongering" states so that means no US guns.

>>33479849
Pretty sure these are on unarmoured targets.

They need something that can effectively punch through bulletproof vests.

>>33486741

He's not necessarily wrong. M193 out of a 20" barrel can pierce Level III steel plates. They have the velocity needed to do so.

7.62x39 while larger, moves much slower and will not penetrate armor as reliably.

>>33488234
This is for 9 inch barrels you nitwit.

>>33486418
I don't see the problem here,looks like 7.62 penetrated more

>>33488476
that's the problem with 7.62 on soft tissue it leaves low permanent damage, notice the two lines, that is where the majority of "functional tissue" is at while 7.62 just zips through that area like a needle prick hardly doing anything.

Who's got the best price on an S1 Carbine, right now?

>>33487963
>can't buy weapons from warmongers

It's like they want shitty, untried stuff.

>>33478797
April fool joke?

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>>33490260
there are many types of bullets now tho

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>>33490714

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>>33490753

>>33478797
eh, they're a bunch of commie fucks anyways, might as well use a commie round

>>33478817

Ukraine is dumping 5.45 and going to 7.62x39

>>33486418

All 5.56 ice picks from 14" m4's

>>33478797
>>33478800
I'm sorry? What? The French, going for a Russian/Soviet cartridge? I call SO MANY KINDS OF BULLSHIT

>>33490840
depends on the round

>>33490840
Shots from shorter barrel are less probable to icepick (with same twist rate). Less velocity, less rotation, more unstable, more flight and impact angle of attack. You probable mistaking it with fragmentation.

>>33486262
>For a 5.56 rifle

Still a complete fabrication. The recoil is actually softer and more pleasant than my ARs

>>33480043
>Not sure why the 9" barrel
Because add 4'' suppressor and you are in the 13'' overall length territory.

>>33486622
they do offer the bren, no idea if they offer the 7.62x39 chambering over here though

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobile/search.php?q=bren

>>33491100
There isn't. They don't even sell aftermarket barrel assemblies

>>33490840
No

>>33486567
>Now the obvious question is why haven't they picked some 14" bullpup
Probably because they wanted subsonic suppressed capability and 5.56 subsonics suck. 7.62x39 bullpup? Do the exist?

Funny thing how West is 60 years behind soviets in special purpose small arms.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDjt85IyWhY

You people do realize that this is fake news, and that you're arguing over nothing, right?

>>33491137
I wonder if it'd be possible to do some sort of hackjob with ak parts?

Naturally it's expensive to begin with and adding parts/labor will make it worse, I'm just supposing

>>33491469
They're doing a .300blk 805 so what's the point.

>>33491533
wasn't aware

no idea how that platform handles steel case anyways

>>33490263
https://www.deguns.net/cz-usa-805-bren-for-sale-08520-806703085203-p/08520.htm

>>33479685
>>Not using Mk.262
SPR nut here
262 is horrible against body armor.

>>33486609

What the article says is that 9mm lacked penetration and 5.56 lacked stopping power.

You guys are fucking retarded. Fuck me for even taking the take to point that out to you moron.

>>33479564
That still leaves 300 blackout looking quite bad.

>>33492251

>taking the time

>>33478797
>Bren 2 assault rifle from Czech company CZ

Good call.

>>33478800
>>naming an AR after a LMG

this is obviously for marketing, but it bother my autism.

>>33490714
>>33490753
>>33490764
I hate how fat 7.62x39 looks, such an ugly cartridge

>>33491588
That's a shit price. Wait some and you can get them for better.

>>33482021

LES BAINS?

>>33482557
Not Czech, but I had heard there were some issues with the rifles as well, accuracy accuracy and bolt wear iirc, discovered by the Czech military in the field. I think TFB had some articles about it.

The 806 charging handle is non reciprocating, so I'm holding out for the 806 instead of just buying the 805. Tho if the 805 becomes much cheaper when the 806 comes out, I might reassess.

>>33492557
Care to share? I've been searching all week and that's the best I can find.

>>33492608
I've never seen this many people complain about the SCAR reciprocating charging handle, and it's a far more expensive gun.
>>33492642
Most of the people selling them were running sales on the carbines at high 1400s to low 1500s back in February or so. I'm going to keep watching.

>>33478797
I thought france was part of NATO.

Are they allowed to use a non NATO cartridge like that?

>>33494625
For the same reason LEO's in the US can.

Police=/=military.
>>33492717
>I've never seen this many people complain about the SCAR reciprocating charging handle
B-b-b-b-ut my fat hands get hit by it!

>>33494625
GIGN is a law enforcement unit. NATO standardization only applies to military units, which even we Americans don't really give a shit about considering USSOCOM just put out the RFI for a .300 blk PDW.

>>33494682
>Police=/=military.
GIGN=Gendarmerie=Military

But yeah, they can do whatever the fuck they want.

>>33492151
Any rifle round will tear through kevlar no problem, especially with ap loads. If they plan on penetrating ceramics that are rated for ap 30 06 and x54r with x39 they're gonna have some problems.

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Does anybody know what the terrorists were wearing?

Like, level 3A soft armor or level 3 plates?

Because there is no fucking way in hell level 3A soft armor would've stopped 5.56 and level 3 plates will stop 7.62 without breaking a sweat.

So what magical armor were they wearing that would stop 5.56 nato but not 7.62x39?

>>33495379
OP didn't say 5.56 didn't penetrate armor.
It clearly says 9mm didn't penetrate armor and that 5.56 didn't have the desired stopping power

>>33494696
GIGN is still a military unit when they operate outside (ie the chain of command is 100% military). But yea inside of France they are considered as LEO.

>>33486262
>Also takes AUG mags
bullshit. AUG mags are fuckwide and the locking position is way different than the g36. Your airsoft rifle isn't indicative of real firearms retard.

>>33490819
lmao they're as dumb as they act then. literal nigger level intellect from those guys.

5.45>5.56>7.62x39 in the real world when you consider logistics, recoil, and manufacturing costs.

>>33495379
7.62 does better through barriers like cars/windows/walls, you know, the shit terrorists hide behind while beheading hostages

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>>33492450
>he hates the thiccness
I'll take all that 7.62x39 off your hands, friend

>>33490714
yes but due to the Geneva Conventions the military is pretty limited in what they can "humanely" use to create holes in other people...

>>33497635
But the GIGN isn't limited by the GC.

>>33497872
depends on how you interpret the role of the GIGN, while it it serves as a police force. GIGN is a part of the National Gendarmerie which is a branch of the French Armed Forces.

>>33479298
>wheel gun meme
OK faggot, lets choose between getting shot with 9mm. Or 357mag.
Yeah, I didnt think so

>be muslim in the middle east
>by default use 7.62x39

>be french
>realize 98% of france is muslim now
>use 7.62x39

>>33498982
But no one is going to complain about them using expanding ammo while working inside their own country, and it's been accepted for over a decade that forces conducting counter terror operations abroad aren't bound by the GC either. See the use by the USMC of MK312 ammo, Mk262 ammo, and Delta/GRU use of HP pistol ammo. The only reason HP/expanding ammo isn't issued en masse to line units is because there's no point to when we have billions of FMJ rounds to use.

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>>33478797

If it's for the French, the caliber doesn't matter. The gun just has to survive being dropped.

>>33499312
DEVGRU*

>>33499312
>the use by the USMC of MK312 ammo, Mk262 ammo
(((JAG lawyers))) don't consider these rounds as violation of conventions.

>The only reason HP/expanding ammo isn't issued en masse to line units is because there's no point to when we have billions of FMJ rounds to use.
New US military standard ball round M855A1 is essentially HP/expanding ammo. And it is issued en masse, 95% of US military 5.56 purchase is M855A1.
>inb4 according to (((lawyers))) terms juggling M855A1 is not HP

>>33500378
>M855A1 is essentially HP ammo
Bruh

>>33492717
>>33494682

I wouldn't say I'm complaining about it, just that I'm not used to it. I prefer my charging handles to either be non-reciprocating and located on the left side of the rifle like the FAL & Tavor, on the right side of the gun A'la the SKS, AK, and Garand, or where the AR has it's awkward charging handle.

Just my preference. The SCAR is priced a little high for my tastes anyhow, but the Bren is at my sweet spot pricewise. I was saving for the 805 until I heard about the 806. 806 is supposed to be lighter, with a 3 position adjustable gas block (instead of a 2 position gas block) and will hopefully have a conversion capability between 7.62x39 and 5.56.

>>33479298
>I know how to do their job better than one of the world's most renowned counter-terrorist units
You'll also be glad to know they mostly use Glocks these days you retarded faggot, SIGs and Manurhin revolvers being optional.

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>>33478797
>CZ fan
>x39 fan
>have always been interested in French CT units due to their unusual tactics and equipment

>>33478797
>7.62x39
>Not 9x39

So close yet so far...

>>33479481
I've never heard a bad word about the ARX160, what are you talking about? It had also passed the Future Carbine Phase 1 Trials and was in Phase 2 to replace M4s.

>>33479481
>7,62x39 is a retarded cartridge

You're the retard

>>33500933
>on the right side of the gun A'la the SKS, AK, and Garand
So put it on the right, then.

>>33501259
The ARX-160 is ugly and the trigger is godawful.

>>33500397
As predicted. Americans of course would deny this but for all intents and purposes M855A1 is HP bullet.

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>>33486447
I love the soviet cartridges but even I know this is wrong.

>>33503006
Where in the point is it hollow?

>>33503006
Why would I deny the M855A1 is a HP when I acknowledge the US uses HP in other ammo types already? M855A1 isn't a HP, intents and purposes or otherwise. Stop being dumb.

>>33503046
Same place polymer tipped hollow points have hollow. Behind tip.

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>>33503525
Yea, nah.

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>>33480008
>>33479921
Bullpup rifles with integrated supressors when?

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>>33500933
>I prefer my charging handles to be everywhere they could possibly be

>>33503660
Yeah, yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8IvDPuVuho

>>33503926
Where in this video does he show a cross section of M855A1 with a cavity behind the ogive?

>>33503974
>>33503660

>>33502299
ugly is meaningless
trigger is only bad for civilian versions

>>33504015
Why are you pointing me back to the post I made with a cross section that shows you are wrong? What level of denial is this?

>>33504036
>trigger is only bad for civilian versions
Well that's a problem considering we're civilians, now isn't it?

>>33497635
>>33498982
GIGN already uses hollowpoints for their pistols

I will bust ALL the nuts if the 806 in 7.62x39 comes to the civilian US market.
>already have a 20" AR
>already have an AK in another caliber
>want a 7.62x39 semi-auto and a new black rifle
>Bren looks cool
>7.62x39 is common as fuck even in stores here, possibly due to the state of Washington setting .24 as the minimum durr caliber so people don't LARP innawoods as much with their AKs

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Fun fact: polymer tipped bullets ARE NOT hollow point bullets because they DON'T have HOLLOW. I repeat: polymer TIPPED bullets are not hollow points.

>>33481979

> western nation

Bit of a stretch there m80. They're basically Afghanistan now, maybe it's subconscious they need the 39. Maybe next it's the tok for a sweet compact backup pistol.

>>33504087

I will burst your bubble right now. The scar is 2700 for le/mil, 3050 IF you can find it for civilians. As cheap as the rifle is to nproduce, and as cheap as cz can be anyways, I still think they'll focus on military and not provide us with enough. Meaning the scar 2: commie boogaloo will be two grand. And not come in 308.

>>33486418
>FMJ
why do people still make this retarded comparison without considering expanding ammo that would be available

>>33487963
or more likely they need to or have incentives to buy from an EU country

>>33504204
I don't care about .308. I have other guns I'd rather use in that role. I want something specifically for 7.62x39 that isn't an AK and isn't as fussy as a Mini Thirty.

>>33494625
Romania uses 5.45
Czechs used 7.62x39 until quite recently
NATO standardization is a suggestion and a goal, not a hard fast rule

>>33497635
>Geneva Convention
you know how I know you're a retard?

>>33503660
m855a1 looks awesome, when can we expect to get them on the civilian market

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>>33503660

Does anybody know how the 855a1 works?

Test vids on YT all show both the slug and penetrator staying in one piece after hitting a soft target, and only the jacket fragments?

Does that do the same amount of damage as an entire lead bullet fragmenting? I can't imagine so, but people say it works phenomenally

>France's police are literally GIGa Niggas

>> 33504617
No idea. Good time to invest in whoever makes feed ramps and bolts when it does though.

>>33504677
This is a s.w.a.g. but the steel penetrator is pushed backwards into the lead behind it. This spreads the jacket wrapped around it apart, which results in the copper/lead jacket fragmenting, and the steel penetrator moving forward on it's own.

>>33504734
>into the lead behind it.
There is no lead in the M855A1. It is copper slug behind.

>>33479849
It does. when you compare fragmenting rounds vs fragmenting or expanding vs expanding 7.62x39 noticeably outperforms 5.56x45. even more so through light cover such as building materials, car doors, and auto glass.

>>33490260
YEA BECAUSE EVERYBODY KNOWS AMMO TECH HASNT ADVANCED AT ALL SINCE THE INVENTION OF M67 LIKE FUCKING 50 YEARS AGO JESUS CHRIST

>>33504734

There is no lead in the 855a1, it is literally a steel penetrator stacked on top of a copper slug in a brass jacket.

>>33504763
Well, I guess that explains why it's long as shit for 62 grains. Is there a reason why they went for a monometal base instead of lead behind the steel?

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>>33495379
>>33495909

Here's the dilemma.

>good plate body armor will stop both
>plate body armor covers critical body parts
>Therefor, GIGN wants their hits to non-critical areas to have a greater incapacitating effect

>7.62

>>33504969
http://asc.army.mil/web/portfolio-item/peo-ammo-5-56-mm-ball-m855a1-epr/

"contains an environmentally friendly projectile that eliminates up to 2,000 tons of lead from the manufacturing process each year in direct support of Army commitment to environmental stewardship."

The army wishes to only spill blood and not heavy metals while abroad.

>>33503006
It's a soft point bullet, not hollow point

>>33491237
You're expecting the average /k/ommando to actually be knowledgable.

>>33507094

>hardened steel tip
>soft point

u wot

That rifle is pretty sexual desu, really gets the old potatos a juicin
>captcha chubb

>>33479582
Dr. Pavel, I'm masketta man

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>>33504969
Lead free eco friendly round.

>>33505121
>The army wishes to only spill blood and not heavy metals while abroad.
It is more about clearing domestic ranges from lead or paying fines to EPR.

>>33507903
That nationwide lead ban is coming in our lifetime, isn't it? Which will still suck, because copper accumulates and is toxic as hell to marine/river life.

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>>33478797
BUt why? Are the rumors of the french government trying to cancel H&K contract are true?

>>33479627
Underrated

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>>33492450
No way, fag. 7.62x39mm looks like a real bullet. 5.56 looks too skinny, it's a tiny little babby bullet.

>>33508212
GIGN is a domestic military special force. They can buy whatever they want.

The HK contract will not be cancelled. The first guns are in production at HK germany.

The GIGN will not give up its 416 and 417 either.
There are 387 GIGN operatives, around 200 of them being armed operators.
The armory is full of different guns in different calibers. They shoot a lot and buy a lot of new guns.
Here they just needed something different in a different caliber.
If they want to go .300 blackout next, they'll buy something else or mod their HK416 when HK sells a .300 barrel.

Don't overthink this story. The RAID which is the police equivalent of the GIGN, uses SAIGA12s for entry for the same reason : it's a good weapon.

If anything this will boost the CZ806 credibility. And that's about it.

>>33480008
stock on LMT is fully extended.

Wew lad.