German last ditch weapons

>>33466957

Even as the russians were raping them, you will never ever ever make something of kraut quality.

Also open bolt is no

They're not so cheap when you have to actually pay your factory workers, Same reason why nobody makes nuggets on the cheap.

>>33466957
The big thing that makes cheap weapons cheap is scale. If you're going to make 50 pieces is a lot different than making 50k pieces.

>>33466957
because there is no way in fuck that gun was made for sub $100

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>>33466957
God I want a VG 1-5 so bad

I've heard of a small company in Germany that makes them, but I don't remember the name. They make other old German repro's, but ordering them sounds like a clusterfuck.

Then again it is something of a garage gun, so if you just find blueprints or a cutout diagram of the gun you could theoretically make it. (Better get plate carriers for your doggo, though.)

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>>33467043
You could always get one off Gunbroker

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>>33467068
fuck
no
just no

I don't think the shop want guns that cheap on the market, really. Not only would the profit be minimal but it would also undercut the market for the 3-400$ guns that fill the low price slot now.

I mean it's more like they are easy to make in small shops without much machinery, nowadays we have a lot of great machinery so we can make nice guns while keeping the costs down.

>>33467043
>I've heard of a small company in Germany that makes them.
You're thinking of Sport-Systemme Dittrich. They don't export to the US, and even if they did half of their products would be banned anyways due to the retarded regulations

>>33467238

Heh. Easy. Sure. If you have the right machinery, which is not cheap if you want to make nice guns rather than garage monsters. By the time you have invested in time and gear to make one such gun from scratch, you could have spent the same time building a lawnmower. And you don't see a lot of home made lawnmowers for sale, somehow....

>>33467284

Well I don't go around showing off my homemade open bolt full auto lawnmower because I like my dog.

>>33466957

There was a company making these OP but they were charging well over a grand for them.

>>33466957
>How cheap could you make the last ditch German weapons today
Not very cheap. Legality of several of those designs aside.

Most of them are stamped stuff or require traditional machining rather than moving through cnc machine.

They would be cheap to make if produced in massive numbers(so the cost of all the stamping forms etc. would be relatively minimal when compared to the profits), but never $100 cheap.

>>33467467
>stampings are expensive to produce unless with huge production runs
I mean you just need the correct dies and a press.

>>33467537
Exactly. You gotta make the dies and get the press. That's expensive enough.

>>33468029
And getting a cnc machine isn't expensive?

>>33467068

I was bidding on that but it went for way too much money.

>>33466970
That's why the world needs communism and slavery

The British had the Germans beat for getting shit done on a budget. See the Sten gun.

Also see Goering's rant regarding the British all-wood Mosquito bomber:

>In 1940 I could at least fly as far as Glasgow in most of my aircraft, but not now! It makes me furious when I see the Mosquito. I turn green and yellow with envy. The British, who can afford aluminium better than we can, knock together a beautiful wooden aircraft that every piano factory over there is building, and they give it a speed which they have now increased yet again. What do you make of that? There is nothing the British do not have. They have the geniuses and we have the nincompoops. After the war is over I'm going to buy a British radio set - then at least I'll own something that has always worked.

>>33468069

Nowadays, a CNC is cheaper than setting up all of the necessary dies or molds for stamping and/or forging, yes.

Current trend is to cast small parts in pot metal of polymer and everyone CNC's a billet because it requires very little startup capital. Buy the machine and you're in business.

>>33468088
Isn't that just a vz52 with some stupid shit bolted on?

>>33468111
How about you order custom dies from somewhere and just a simple hydraulic press can't cost too much.

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>>33467068
delet this

>>33468161

Dies aren't cheap. I have a family friend who is a die maker and he makes $40/hr and usually works 50-60 hours a week. You can get cheap presses but there's the half-assed way of doing it and the correct way of doing it.

A Harbor Freight Press might be good for hobbyists, but it's not going to churn out rifle after rifle after rifle 24/7.

>>33468144

Essentially, yes. I was going to buy it, remove the VG stock shit, and put it in a tactical wood stock and make it into a ghetto blaster. Sell the VG stock crap to someone on GB.

>>33468029
>Not CNCing the Die and Tooling
That's how its done in Gunlabs senpai. You should check out their blogs, some include intructions

>>33468110
To be fair, Goering was kind of a dipshit

>>33466962
Isn't the remington 700 a refined VG1 action?

>>33467043
Looking at the way the design is constructed, that is of a blowback slide on top of a frame, held down by the rear reciever cap and a slide forend cap.

One can achieve something equivalent by building up an AK receiver into a blowback gun, with a blowback trunnion, a chamber fluted barrel, and a newly made slide that weighs sufficiently to hold back the blowback force of the intermediate cartridge.

An underslung foward extending rail could be pinned on the barrel, or riveted from the front of the receiver. This is to guide the front end of the slide.

The slide needs to have a certain weight in order to properly retard the opening of the slide, curiosly 8x33, 7.62x39, 5.56x45 all have similar blowback weights. Orion's hammer has the formulas for the necessary calculations for this. Given that it is a blowback gun and needing a fluted chamber and based on an AK receiver, 7.62x39 working off PTR32 barrels would be the best option.

The rear reciever cap is the difficult part to make, the original being something like a sheetmetal piece bent into a keyhole shape and a endcap welded on. In order to work with the AK's rear trunnion, this reciever cap would have to have a tab shaped like the AK's recoil spring tab and have the front end retained by the AK's selecter lever, while keeping the rest of the AK trigger mechanism intact.

Use standard AK rear furniture and pistol grip, or use Saiga style rear trunnion and buttstock. The forend of the originals is a plank of wood slotted and riveted onto the front rail, no need to do anything different there.

I hope this excercise in autism help you in your endeavours.

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>>33470687
That's what I was thinking. You could "convert" an AK into a VG 1-5 aesthetically if you wanted, However it would require some metalwork and changing how the gas blows back.

Its a stretch, but if anyone was to make a decent attempt, go ahead. I just wish there was a company that made reproductions of old weapons without gouging me hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars for hastily made last ditch weapons that were actually usable. The world isn't perfect I guess.

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>>33473066
correction
*could be usable if made correctly

Anybody can make ARs in a pinch these days

>>33470687
>Isn't the remington 700 a refined VG1 action?
Not even close.
It's a refined version of the P13 Enfield.
The Winchester 70 is descended from the same rifle with a couple features stolen from the 1903.

>>33473066
I've had a weakspot for gas delayed blowback. (well, any uncommon rifle action) In military guns they've been trialed and then passed over. But, as a "citizens rifle" seems like a good platform for rapid distribution.

>>33467068
A vz52 died for that autism.

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>>33467085
get ready for some zuccing m8

>>33470687
No, a 700 goes way back, actually to guns like the 721 and ultimately the P-14/17.

HMG makes a bad copy of an StG-44 for $1800
SSD in Germany makes a good copy that was imported in a modified form by PTR as the PTR44 that was $5k, but had problems
it's hard to find info on whether or not the Euro market ones are good

they also make VG 1-5s, and numerous other German weapons
all are very, very expensive

Valkyrie Arms makes M3 Grease Guns for $1500 or so

the FP-45 Liberator reproductions are $600

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>>33466957
>Tfw no post apocalyptic Vulksturmgewehr that burns your enemies from the inside out with radioactive bullets

>>33466970
>They're not so cheap when you have to actually pay your factory workers

Implying the germans paid their untrmenschen slavs

>>33473202
Seras Dicktoria
That's what her name should be

I have a boner the size of a SR-71 for her

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>>33467068
jesus christ no

>>33470687
VG1-5 is not blowback tho.

>>33474427
Only because it doesn't look 100% same doesn't really mean its a bad copy tho, if they fixed the stampings looking retarded it would be fine.

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>>33475215
Me too /k/ameraden

>>33475435
it's a bad copy
none of the details line up and they made major changes to the internals too

HMG a shit

time and resources spent by the germans to develop and produce shitty rifles. they could have produced many more roughly made K98k rifles.

you can even tell a later war k98k apart from a earlier ones.

I even own a Carcano M91/38 Short Rifle. That was converted to a single shot 8mm mauser rifle for the Volksstrum.

Aside from the MP3008, not very. They were designed using the cheapest practices -of the time-, which we have outpaced by quite a good bit as of now. Germany also had a lot, and I mean a lot of experience and tooling for stamping, which is not a common situation for a company or nation to be in. If you were gonna make a fixed up VG1-5 for sale today you can bet it'd be competing in the $1,000-1,500 bracket at the lowest point.

>>33466970
Modern cheap is plastic mold injections guns and simple geometry parts preferably stamped. Did someone said Glock?

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>>33475211
That's the point...

>>33476812
The VG2 existed and was made in large numbers. As far as a volksturm weapon goes, at least. Could be made for half the price and time of a K98 and production rested on the Gauleiter rather than an army ordinance channel thus robbing no K98 production time or material.

>>33474455
I was wondering from where I recognized the gun from

>>33476879
resources were still spent developing a new rifle.

German problem was that they could never produce enough and produced too many different things.

look at their pistols. the luger was too expensive to make. so the P38 came about as a replacement. Yet they still made the luger. they also bought Stars from spain, had the belgians making hi powers, walther PPs, etc.

when they should have just standardized the p38 and forced all other production with in the reich and occupied territory to end.

>>33467043
Gun Lab supposedly is making a VG1-5 for about $4000

>>33468110
>After the war is over I'm going to buy a British radio set - then at least I'll own something that has always worked.

>Trusting the Dark Lord Lucas and his electronic gremlins

>>33475430
VG1-5 is Barnitzke-style gas-delayed blowback, like the H&K P7. However, the VG still had a pretty heavy bolt for a gas-delayed system, and the gas seal was pretty dubious. Therefore, it was mostly a mass-delayed blowback - kinda like how the Thompson wasn't a stiction-delayed design.

>>33476526
External changes were made to not have a 70% reject rate.
Internal changes were made to not get their doggo's shot.

HMG a mediocre, but it's the closest you'll get to a functioning Stg.

>>33477073
>>>
Blish Lock action doesn't actually work though.

>>33477103
....just like the Barnitzke principle as used in the VG1-5. Which was the entire point I was making.

On some newer not-last-ditch prototype they actually managed some gas seal and managed to reduce bolt weight by about half iirc. The principle works (kinda), it just doesn't work in the 1-5.

Shoutout to the other /k/ bro eating at citrus

>>33469520
The fun kind of dipshit.

>>33476960
no.
The VG2 was a K98 as dead simple to make as is possible with useless resoueces. It did not impact Heer weapons procurement even in development.

>>33477256
why are you so dense?

resources put towards the VG2 could have just been used to make more K98ks. adding to the total production.

>>33477311
>resources put towards the VG2 could have just been used to make more K98ks
Not him, but no. The resources used for the VG2 were specifically selected as to not impact Kar98k production.

You're right about the pistol clusterfuck, but producing 1 standard rifle and 1 substandard rifle isn't the same thing.

>>33477311
Making fewer total rifles. You are wrong. This is equivalent to implying that 190 production jeopardized the supply of BMW 605 engines. Salvaged resources from outside the wehrmacht supply chain had no effect on K98 production whatsoever. Making the VG2 was the correct choice and put more weapons in German hands, period.

>>33477431
Whoops, I mean DB605 engines. But I digress. There was no excess production capacity left to take advantage of the broken-down pallets and useless aircraft MG barrels taken from storage that you seem to think the VG2 wasted.

>>33467043
>Hill & Mac decides to make a """reproduction""" VG 1-5
>it has a STANAG magwell, a monolithic top rail and comes in numerous tactical configurations straight from the factory

>>33477513
Boy am I glad they never called the STG-M an StG-44 reproduction.

>>33477089
>internals changes were made to not get their doggo's shot
HA
I wasn't aware that the ATF required them to use MKb42 bolt carriers or use an AR style caste nut for the barrel

I also wasn't aware that offering .300 memeout, 5.56, and x39 and distorting the magwell was required to not have a 70% reject rate
I wasn't aware that ther mag catch needed to be on the wrong side to avoid a 70% reject rate
I wasn't aware the whole handguard needed to be fucked to avoid a 70% reject rate

face it, the HMG STG-N is dogshit
the thing looks like shit aesthetically and looks like shit as a reproduction or replica or remake or whatever no-true-scotsman term HMG-fags are using these days to justify it looking only vaguely like a real StG44

>>33477695
useless meme rifle

no good for reenactors or anyone that cares about history because it looks so shit
no good for serious use because it's more expensive, probably less reliable, and has fewer options that any AR, AK, or snowflake rifle under $2k

it's a vague StG44 sorta lookalike-ish for wehraboos who don't know their history and dumb fudds

>>33477987
No such thing as a useless meme rifle as long as 2gun exists.

>>33477256
>>33476879
A VG2 would be rather saleable in today's market, something akin to those Afghan bolt action AKs.

Imagine a bolt action AK with the rear end of the receiver cut down for a new rear trunnion that incorporates the bolt guide, the trigger mechanism, and a buttstock socket. The front trunnion and the barrel and sights are unchanged, perhaps use a vepr style handguard. Use the AK side rail to attach fudd optics.

>>33477147
What are you talking about?

>>33466957
>Under 100 dollars
Holy shit neck yourself lmao

>>33466967
>>33467043
They're not open bolt you fucking subhumans.

Watch the forgotten weapons video.

>>33468358
You should ask them to CNC you a gf lmao