Why do upper end ARs exist when the SCAR exists

Because some people want to buy a very high quality rifle but want an AR instead of a SCAR

>>33458072
Nice Ugg Boot

>>33458072
direct impingement

>>33458081
I live in a nogunz country and will never see an automatic gun outside of conscription, outside of cost why would someone want an AR when the SCAR is more durable and reliable?

>>33458072
>>33458081


The SCAR isn't high end.

From an engineering stand point, they made it as cheap as possible to produce.

It's a good design, but there's nothing special about them.

They're just a fancy FNC using extruded metal to make them dirt cheap to produce.


People like OP are just very vulnerable to marketing.

>>33458105
Because they're ugly.

>>33458105
Aesthetics, aftermarket, cost, availability, preference, etc.

>>33458111
>They're just a fancy FNC using extruded metal to make them dirt cheap to produce
But they're neither longstroke nor FALesque looking. Also Czeched

>>33458072
Because unless you're truly a trailer part crawler then you can probably afford both, and variety is the spice of life.

>>33458072
>muh scar
Here we go again

>>33458072
Why does Lamborghini exist when Ferrari exists?

>>33458072
If the Scar is so good why does noone use them?

Once you start getting into the ~$2500 range, ARs and SCAR are indistinguishable performance wise. A $2500 AR will do you just as good as a SCAR. And personally, I enjoy the look of a custom AR over the SCAR, but that's just me.

>>33458169
I assume because they are expensive, my country still uses rattled out m16s the US gave us back in the 70s. I would trust a SCAR far more than that.

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Why not both!

>>33458161
bc ferari was a bit of a pompous twat and didnt want to listen to the ideas of some farmer

>>33458212
Because on /k/ we can only have the same arguments ad nauseum till we die.

A SCAR vs AR was one of the first threads I replied to back in 2005 and I'm still talking about it.

When I die St. Peter will ask me SCAR vs AR and I'll march my ass back to purgatory.

>>33458212
That SCAR looks fugly. Please tell me it's not yours.

>>33458238
The "stop liking what I dont like" set.
I forget about them.

The SCAR is probably the ultimate evolution this planet has produced in combat rifles to date. But that AR aftermarket simply cannot be ignored.

>>33458072

>paying $2,000+ for a rifle when you can buy a SKS for $200 (or $350 in the states)

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>>33458252
They both are

>>33458238
purgatory will just be looking at a big wall with the words "SCAR vs AR" on it

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>>33458212
>replacing glorious bootstock

am I the only one who likes how it looks

>>33458273
no

>>33458271
That would be caliber debates.

>>33458273
Thinking of putting a tan A1 stock on it next

>>33458212
Because most people on /k/ are poor/underage nogun fags and can only dream of owning one dream rifle. So they pick on to put up on their wall

>>33458308
That would make everyone the perfect amount of mad, do it.

>>33458273
>am I the only one who likes how it looks
Yes.

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>>33458316

>>33458355
Hey, the SCAR doesn't look as disgusting anymore.

>>33458072
As the owner of an SR-15 and SCAR 16 if I had to choose between the two I'd take the SR-15 easily. I don't use the quick-change barrel function, though I'd like to SBR the SCAR. The folding stock is nice, but I'm not jumping out of vehicles nor do I shoot anywhere where space is limited. Yes, if I was going to blow off rounds on full-auto I'd take the SCAR, but I use this to kill Faygo cans and paper targets while I pretend to be a soldier with my SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE muzzle device that's shiny and...inconel.

The SCAR 16 is a great rifle, but it might not be the best rifle for you.

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>>33458909
>He doesn't use a MAMS

>>33458265
(You)

>>33458072
Because poofags need a rifle also, the scar IS the best rifle out there AND nothing can compete. With the SCAR you have modularity or the ar, accuracy of a sniper rifle and the punch of real fucking nato without the recoil and fouling. Sure ar's are nice if your t. Poorfag like 90% of /k/ is but if your not a complete failure and have your priorities in line there is absolutly no reason not to get one. It is the best shoulder rifle to date and no way will be replaced by poohfags ar's

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>>33458212
Nice guns, friend. How heavy is the scar with the ubr and scope on it, does the ubr throw the balance off at all?

>>33459098
As configured its like 10lbs. The UBR moves the weight rearward which makes it feel sublime.

>>33459069
I threw up in my mouth and I'm Belgian. You are insane mate.

> 2017
> reciprocating charging handle
> more than $2k
inb4 poorfag none of you scar owners ever take that hunk of plastic outside

>>33459174
Could you be more coherent with your rant?

>>33458072
>SCAR is too fat and expensive
>AR is seinfeld syndrome personified and becoming outdated

>>33459305
>Too fat
You either haven't used one or have trump hands

>>33459305
>>33459342
who is quoting who here

>>33458370

>caring about how a tool looks

>>33459479
I didn't pay 3k for the SCAR because it's a good rifle

>>33458212

Because I live in New York.

[jewing intensifies]

>>33458111
>but there's nothing special about them.
It fixes all problems AR-15 have (except shitty mags).
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?62889-SCAR-vs-AR-A-detailed-look

>>33458966
The one one the right looks exactly like what I want to build. Can you give me a rundown of what it is and what's on it?

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Oh boy, a SCAR thread! Here's mine.

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>>33458072

Real question is why does the SCAR exist when the M14 exists?

>>33459930
Probably because the SCAR is better in every way.

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>>33459864

>>33458161
> Lambos are just restyled German Audis

At least Ferrari's owners let them off the leash a bit.

>>33459479
> Spends most of its time not being shot
It's like 10% tool, 90% decoration, so yeah

>>33458072
>Why do upper end ARs exist when the SCAR exists
Because AR manufacturers don't mark up every item 1000% right at the factory?

>>33459479

>le tool

All "tactical" rifles are fashion accessories.

The only tools are guns you can carry

>>33458105
>more durable and reliable

Your noguns is coming through very clear boyo.

>>33460087
Explain $4k 308 ARs then

>>33460260
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/09/08/ar-endurance-findings-at-a-rental-range/

>>33458105
Availability of after-market parts and familiarity of the platform's manual-of-arms.

>>33460502
>Manual of arms
That's what your going with?

>>33460543
I'm still right tho.

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>>33459864
>guns with non-black/tan/gray/camo parts
I need more

>>33460578
You think a minor software issue is a real problem? Most of the control layout is the same, and the charging handle is in a superior position.

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>>33460685

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>>33460685
Ever been to a paintball shop?

Some people are so Stockholm'd by buffer tubes that they think folding stocks are a bad thing.

>>33460839
and some people think a piston ar or ar180 is a god send.

>>33458105
>Outside of cost
Well that's a pretty big factor when you can buy a very well made AR for ~$1500, maybe less.

>>33460339
Better accuracy potential and ergonomics. Most people don't use that but the ones that do will pay a premium for it.

>>33460358
Not that anon but I remember being in the comments of that
>This is Ron from Battlefield Vegas. One of the questions asked below was about the ammo. The only steel case ammo we use is 5.45x39, 7.62x39 and 7.62x54. We had to use steel case 9mm and .223 for about 4-5 days soon after we opened because of a hard time getting ammo (Sandy Hook shooting). The 9mm was a bad lot. You could actually see the bullet fly down range and hit the trap or watch it hit the floor because it didn't even have enough power to hit the trap. The other was .223 and it really fouled up the M4's and the SAW much, much faster than any of the brass ammo we had used.
The guy whoowned the range that was doing the tests admitted that their ammo was drastically different than what they normally ran, and what they put through the SCAR. Nice source retard.

>>33460891
>Accuracy potential
Wrong. A more rigid barrel, like the mk20 will get half moa. The 13" pencil barrel is often .75moa. and aftermarket barrels are a thing

>Ergonomics
Patently incorrect

>>33460358
This anecdote keeps showing up. Stop it.

>>33460957
So they run steel cased in slavshit, brass in everything else?
How is this "drastically" different?

>>33461120
You have a higher volume of fire with citeable sources?

>>33459623
It's an SR-25E3, shithead.

>>33461139
Do you have a source that doesn't use a single unit to prove your point?

>>33461140
It's an LMT MWS with a NF 2.5-10x24 with a Harris style bipod and a magpul stock.

>>33461150
The Peru rifle tests

>>33461181
OK, where can I read them?

>>33459930
Because The M14 was, and is, shit.

>>33461186
In peru.
Again. Can you cite something?

>>33461270
Can you?

>>33461104
>.308 long range platform
>16 inch barrel
>barrels don't come in all kinds of profiles
>barrels are the only thing that make accuracy
Look at this fucking retarded peice of shit.

>>33461123
>The 9mm was a bad lot. You could actually see the bullet fly down range and hit the trap or watch it hit the floor because it didn't even have enough power to hit the trap. The other was .223 and it really fouled up the M4's and the SAW much, much faster than any of the brass ammo we had used
I don't know how many times you have to read this... Everything but the SCAR was using shitty ammo.

>>33461295
What are you talking about?

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>>33458212
>I can't get around this extended handguard
>I think it looks stupid even though I would need one for my long-arms to dominate rifle comfortably.

>>33461295
In the 16" SCAR without going aftermarket, there is one profile. I get moa out of it.

>>33461310
Not using that report to say other rifles are shit. Saying the SCAR is amazing. The AR is known to go like a quarter of a million rounds before reciever issues. AKs like 100,000.

>>33460957
>The 9mm was a bad lot. You could actually see the bullet fly down range and hit the trap or watch it hit the floor because it didn't even have enough power to hit the trap.
I wonder what the fuck they were using. I have fed Wolf and Winchester steel to my 92FS and it worked fine.

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>>33461323
So use other handguard extensions?

>>33461362
Still looks stupid.

>>33458111

it's actually AR-18 based

>>33458212
>813 different shades of brown.
why does FN do this?

>>33458355
Is that a straight 30rnd mag?

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>>33461415
Its a feature

>>33461426
Yes

>>33459069
>With the SCAR you have modularity or the ar
not quite. The SCAR's monolithic top rail and huge gas block / front sight post slightly limit the handguard options. The AR's front end is more slender and can slim tubular handguards - carbon fiber tubes are especially interesting.

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>>33461605

>>33460957
>doing the tests
huh? They're talking about months and years of business. They only ran steel case for a couple days out of necessity and ditched it.

>>33461630
oh nice. I haven't seen irregular shaped CF handguards.

>>33460339
>Explain $4k 308 ARs then

Easy $3000 of that is the optic.

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>>33461699
oh you sweet summer child
https://www.noveske.com/products/16-gen-iii-n6-switchblock-rifle

>>33461779
>Noveske

Really would like to know why the 5.56 Noveske I came across had a $2,000 price tag when mine cost half and does the same fucking thing.

>>33461286
Can anyone?

>>33461342
>The AR is known to go like a quarter of a million rounds before reciever issues
And a dozen bolts to 20 bolts/several barrels. The fact that you save on an 80 dollar component while blowing through bolts isn't really all that interesting.

>>33462308
Could go E3 or LMT bolt.

>>33458104
sucks

>>33462416
You could and let's say it'll double the bolt life (unlikely). You're still going through 5+ bolts and 3-4 barrels at 220k rounds. 2 WASRs can do that for about the same price in JUST the cost to replace the bolts alone and not counting the barrel or anything else.

The fact that a cheap receiver lasts a disproportionately long time on an AR would be like saying that an AK's buttstock lasts longer than an AR's receiver extension/stock assembly. It (could be) true, but the fact that it's cheap and you're going to be doing armorer level maintenance on the gun for other parts anyway doesn't really mean all that much.

because the ar is just better

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>>33462465
nope

>>33458089
>Nice Ugg Boot

Exactly

/thread

>>33458256
>The SCAR is probably the ultimate evolution this planet has produced in combat rifles to date
lol

>>33462572
Youd need more than 2 AKs to get to that round count most likely, unless your welding the recievers back up.

>>33459989
>> Lambos are just restyled German Audis
>At least Ferrari's owners let them off the leash a bit.

The Ferrari is nice to be seen in.

Lamborghini is for drivers.

Not the car's fault that faggot wankstas buy them and crash them trying to pull away from paparazzi outside night clubs.

>>33461375
what an interesting way to say "I'm poor"

>>33462774
From the same battlefield vegas
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_64/159106_AK_abuse__home_built_version_update_on_Page_6_.html&page=1
>We have yet to shoot out a factory WASR barrel.
>This may sound crazy but it's fair to say that they finally suffer a catastrophic failure (cracked trunion) at 80,000-100,000 rounds. Also, we have WASR's that have suffered a catastrophic failure and we just pull out the old trunion and barrel, grab one from a parts kit, re-rivet, re-barrel and get them up and running.

>>33462828
o..okay
What im getting at is that while an AK reciever might not make it to bajillions of rounds, it take like five minutes with a welder to get it back up.

I generally loathe all slavshiit. But its simple, rugged, and designed to be repaired by skills a farmer could realistically be expected to posses.

>>33458212
this is the right answer..got a nice ar,but ive spent years with the mil,and gov carrying and useing them so they are just a tool to me,nothing to get me all excited,but other weapons,like scars and old mil-surps are exciting to me so i get them and when i go in the yard to have some fun i take them,the ar just goes out for me to practice with and stay sharp with,otherwise its just like a hammer or a drill,something i have for certain jobs,but thats it.

>>33462807
My income is enough to buy an SCAR. I just can't justify it yet. I don't have a cabinet/safe/locker for my funs and i'd like to get one before I get another long gun.

>>33458072
Because the AR is the ultimate rifle platform.

>>33458072
Because ARs have existed for 50 years and your meme gun will be forgotten in 10.

>>33462861
>reciever
Again, what is your fixation on this? The SCAR, AK, and AR are all going to be getting completely overhauled before the receiver fails on any of these guns. For an AK the fact that the receiver does not outlast an AR's is so completely irrelevant of every other factor in all the other rifle's service schedules that to bring it up is a wasted point. To point out the receiver cracks sometimes past 100,000 - 120,000 rounds (he never specified the expected round count for this failure) when an AR is going through an amount of bolts that alone cost more than the entirety of a new WASR is asinine.

To couple that with the fact that Soviet arms programs preferred to replace entire weapon systems and send anything critically broken to rear echelons and depot level repair instead of unit level maintenance also suggests that this issue, even if easily fixable, was still not something ever intended or used by soviet small arms engineering and doctrine. This doctrine seemed to prove wise as by the time it even becomes an issue, having a second entire weapon system ready for use is already economical anyways even in the American market. To think about this issue and use it as a form of merit or detraction against the AK is somewhat foolish, since it is a non-issue.

>>33461395
Everything is AR-18 based these days.
The only exception that comes to mind is the Israelites and their Tavorim

>>33462807
Golden turd

>>33463124
Its has meaning in the class 3 world where the receiver is the registered part.

>>33463590
For a SOT like battlefield vegas it's still a non issue. For a pre-86 MG, who the fuck is going to know that the receiver wasn't just refinished if you swap out the old with a new one?

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It's basically a SCAR at this point :^

>>33463706
nice tiles i'd cum on them

>>33460358
>We get about 20,000 rounds out of bolts before we start experiencing issues. The headspace gauge will start getting closing on NO-GO but not close on field. We will lose a lug on the bolt. The bolt will start skipping over rounds in the magazine and fail to insert a round. We use LMT and Daniel Defense bolts and some will actually go longer but at about 20,000 rounds is when we will start to see issues appear.
That seems really, really bad.

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>>33461630
5/5 Badass.

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>>33463760
It's worse than you think.

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>>33463849

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I wanted to support American industry, and wanted some aerospace flavor. Muh guns need more carbon fiber and these guys do it well.
Scars are the biz but this is more my speed.
Needs a different stock, want to make a carbon fixed length but not sure if I can do it well enough to match the oem carbon work.

>>33461846
Also the pictures on their website are total garbage.

>>33464113
Holy SHIT that bolt catch paddle!

>>33463849
that's from when colt was having qc issues, for a period of 1 year in the early 2000s.
>>33463760
20,000 rounds is more than enough. Only SOCOM shoots their guns that much, and they have a big budget to replace their bolts sooner.

>>33458072
High quality AR will do everything the same but be cheaper to produce and buy.

>>33460712
no it isn't. The reciprocating handle is in the perfect position to hit door frames, car windows, or anything the shooter might brace against while in combat.

>>33458105
because the AR is just as reliable, and the SCAR is only more durable after 20k rounds.

>>33461581
where can I get such an unreliable POS that looks fucking awesome

>>33464271
Consider the statements in this powerpoint >>33463849 - you could have a sub-10k failure easily, even with well manufactured bolt

>>33464303
Is the term durable a new concept to you?

>>33462776
>Lamborghini is for drivers.

Ferraris are generally (not always) quicker around race tracks than comparable Lambos, and set up for speed and lap time over flair. So depends on what drivers you mean.

That said, Lamborghini's efforts at the 'Ring recently are interesting.

>>33458072
An AR is pretty much 10% lower, 90% upper for anything beneficial to additional quality related performance. That includes part replacement and maintenance. The SCAR needs to have FNH OEM replacements if anything fucks up.

>>33465817
It does

>>33462572
No one has ever broken an E3 bolt. Also where the fuck can you buy a WASR for the price of an AR-15 bolt?

>>33466602
The market for slavshit doesn't generally overlap with the market for KAC

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>>33458072

>>33467890
What's your point, exactly?

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>>33458238
>A SCAR vs AR was one of the first threads I replied to back in 2005 and I'm still talking about it.
>almost half my life was spent having the same fucking conversation
Is it time to end it? No. That's what 4chan wants.

>>33458238
This. People argued about this shit before anyone on here had even seen the rifle.

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can your scar make you moist?

>>33469697
That if your the kind of guy into KAC stuff, your not likely into slavshit. Unless you just like a wide variety of shit, and then id argue your not really into anything asides from "collecting"

>>33471980
ARs put me to sleep

>>33472704
I still don't understand your point and I understand even less what relevance it has to my original comment.

>>33472728
Your reading way to far into it.

>>33472745
No, I think you're just an idiot.

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>>33472753
Savage

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>>33461140
It's a SR-15 shithead

>>33473002
>SR-15E3 Mod 1
Nice. I wish I bought one before they got discontinued. The Mod 2 just isn't the same.

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>>33473006
Glad I bought a triple tap for it before it too became discontinued

>>33463692
Serial numbers, federal prison if caught, the fact you have to submit a clear and good picture of the registered item.

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>>33461581
>>33458355

holy shit

>>33473185
>not using an 80% and serializing with the old numbers
>not having a brand new pre 86 fully laughomatic

>>33461395
That makes it worse. The AR 18 was a shitty budget rifle intended for poorfag countries with nothing but stamping machines.

>>33473054
why is that shim off the shoulder of the threads

how did you manage that

>>33461395
No it's not. I'll properly school you nigs in a minute when I have access to my pics

>>33458125
but the FNC ISN'T FAL-esque in appearance. in fact, it's downright strange... The CAL maybe, but definitely not the FNC.

>>33463706
can I ask where everyone keeps getting type A selectors for their FAL's and I can't find a solitary ONE on the entire internet?

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>>33461395
alrighty I'm back. SCAR compared to AR-18. Let's get the similarities out of the way:
>the bolt face
>short stroke
aaaaand done.

now for the differences. Starting withe gas system. The AR-18's short stroke is a little different from older short stroke. The "piston" is fixed in place and doesn't move, where the gas acts is the "operating cylinder" which wraps around the piston. The operating cylinder is what the gas acts on while the piston is mostly the seal. The connecting link aids disassembly and the op rod pushes on the bolt carrier.

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>>33476260
AR-18 piston assembled

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>>33476264
the SCAR on the other hand uses a short stroke tappet. The tappet is tiny, there isn't any op rod, the tappet acts directly on the rather long bolt carrier. The tappet moves only a small distance and is contained within the gas block.

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>>33476274
x-ray so you can see the tappet touching the long bolt carrier

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next the bolt carrier. Yeah the bolt face is the same but that's about it. The AR-18 carrier rides on its guide rods, and sort of on the bottom of the upper receiver. There aren't any guide rails for the carrier.

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>>33476292
SCAR carrier. Those distinct square edges are for riding on rails in the receiver. There's only 1 recoil spring and guide rod. And of course it's much longer to reach the tappet in the gas block.

>>33476251
post ends 76251...
Checked, best digits.

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guide rod retention, where the force of the bolt carrier goes.

The AR-18 uses the lower receiver to keep the guts in. The bolt carrier hits the rear of the lower with every cycle.

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>>33476319
SCAR has a "guide rod retention plate" which is basically a rear trunnion. The bolt carrier hits that and all the force goes into the upper receiver.

>>33463711
Are you the guy with a tile fetish? I seem to remember a guy trying to explain that to us years ago.

Other stuff that doesn't need pics

Upper: AR-18 has a short stamped upper with handguards. SCAR has a much longer cast aluminum receiver

Barrel attachment / trunnion: AR-18 barrel is threaded into the trunnion, and the bolt lug recesses are part of the trunnion. SCAR uses a barrel extension which slides into the receiver and is tightened with screws, so that the barrel assembly can be swapped without changing the headspacing.

tl;dr no the SCAR is not based on the AR-18, it's hardly even similar

File: IMG_2071.png (766KB, 2000x2000px) Image search: [Google]

766KB, 2000x2000px

>>33463711
the fuck

>>33474550
would that actually work?

>>33477929
No. The ATF is actually pretty thorough with that shit and will fuck you while killing your dog. Then fuck your dead dog while you watch.

>Friend is an SOT and his biggest worry is becoming a dog widower because he broke some assinine regulation.

>>33476364
Now do the SCAR and CZ 805 because people keep saying the 805 is a copy of the SCAR.