CZ 75 B vs. Browning Hi-Power

their honestly pretty similar, Id recommend the CZ if you dont want your gun blowing up in your face

CZ. The Hi Power is nice, but it costs twice as much, hammer bite can be a problem if you have fat hands, the mag disconnect safety is lame (though easily removed), and I think that DA/SA > single action only. I also personally find the CZ to be more comfortable in my hand. But that's just like my opinion, man.

>>33445400
Hi Power is garbage.

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>>33445465
Fuck you

>>33445400
CZ is pretty much a pinnacle of 9mm metal pistols, and sort of a successor of Hi-Power as well. It's a sport shooter favorite for a good reason.

>>33445476
Get a better gun.

>>33445400
hi power if you can find a used one in good condition in your area cz if buying new

If I were you i'd get a Hi Power, nothing beats the feeling of a hi power grip

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>>33445400
The Czechs took the Hi-Power and further perfected it with the CZ.

The Hi-Power is a good gun, but they have a few quirks such as the mag disconnect, which can be removed fairly easily.

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>>33445400
I like my Vz.75 better than my Hi-Power (ergonomics are a little better), but both are great guns.

I'm in the same boat as OP. I want a HP, but new ones aren't in my price range and there are not a lot of used ones anywhere (I don't buy it without handling it). Plenty of CZs around, and they're affordable at that. I'm wondering if I should just give up on the Hi Power and get a 75b.

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>>33445494
Make me

>>33445608
Jesus Christ, do you own anything that isn't bottom of the barrel?

>>33445400
Get a glock

>>33445544
Hi Power "ergonomics" are highly overrated.

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>>33445688
this board is for adults

>>33445704
What's wrong with a glock?

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>>33445681
Nope

>>33445400

Hi Powers are really well made but ergonomically you're more likely to have issues. I owned a new production Hi Power and I didn't get hammer bite, but the safety was far enough back to tenderize my thumb and break skin after about 100 rds, and using a thumbs forward (modern) grip can lock the slide open prematurely, so you might have to hold it like a revolver.

CZ-75 is probably the best metal framed DA/SA handgun if you want a range gun that you can tinker with. It's comfortable, shoots reliably, and has lots of aftermarket support.

I will emphasize that Hi Powers are really nicely made, however. CZs will have all sorts of tooling marks and shit on the inside of the slide. It doesn't impede function at all, but if you're just keeping the gun as a collector piece and you're going to get autistic knowing that there are tool marks on the inside of your gun, get the Hi Power.

t. owned both, kept the CZ

>>33445400
I vote Browning Hi Power 100% of the time. Far and away my favorite pistol, why would I want any other?

But then I'm totally biased and not rational. I'm just happy with my Hi Powers and my 1911s. I haven't had any reason to swap them out yet.

My Hi Power was a surplus Mk.II from AIM. Had it refinished, replaced all the springs, and it's fine.

CZs intrigue me, I'd love to pick up one someday, though it's not a priority right now. Nothing wrong with them, but I'm just set on the Hi Power.

It works for me, OP, it may work for you.

>unironically recommending czshit over a hipower

wew this board has really gone to shit

CZ doesn't give me a hammer bite desu

>>33445400
Well, I happen to have both.

Both have their pros and cons. The CZ is more robust, but the safety is sort of awkward and the gun is big, not so good for smaller hands.

The Hi-power carries better and is better for smaller hands.

I had the CZ first and got the Hi-power for the wife to shoot cause she has small hands. I don't really like one more than the other.

>>33445400
>DA/SA>SAO
>15rds>13rds
>Ergonomics are subjective but a CZ sits better in my (giant) hands.
>NiB CZ is significantly less expensive
They're pretty similar overall but the CZ has a couple clear advantages, which makes sense considering its clear lineage as a refinement of the BHP.

>>33445454

>the mag disconnect safety is lame (though easily removed)

Man, I bought a hi power thinking this was the case and I ended having to use a shop press to punch a pin out of the thing to make this happen. I have no idea how they got that fucker in there, but in looking around I guess some of the guns are absurdly tight like that. I was driving the pin in the correct direction, before anyone asks.

Having owned both and now only owning the CZs, is say CZ. I bought my CZ because I fired a hi power and they felt similar in the hand, but my CZs ended up being the better shooters, at least in my hands.

>>33445681
Quantity over quality
>FOR MUH ZOMBE APOOKALAPSE

>>33445851
>15rds>13rds
try again with mags from this decade

>>33445975
So 17>15

>>33445975
Those are the capacity of factory, flush-fitting mags.
>19rds>15rds
Better?
Unless we're talking about absurd-looking extendos the CZ beats the BHP on capacity.

>>33446059
>live in commiefornia
>hand gun roster
>no store has a consistent policy regarding hi powers or CZ 75s

>>33445465
>t. Glock/ PPQ/ VP9/ SR/ TP9/ P320 owner

>>33445608
>psl
>garand
>bottom of the barrel
get some fucking taste

>>33446132
sorry meant for>>33445681

>>33445691
>Gramps has Hi-power form 70's or 80's
>Never held one so I was pretty happy
>Put the grip in my hand
>Literally ruined all other handguns and pistol grips.
It felt like is was made for me. Things like this are subjective. You don't know until you try.

>>33446132
>PSL
>shit
Pick two.
I own some shit-tier firearms and I'm by no means judging but let's not pretend PSLs are anything other than fun "BLAP BLAP" makers.
As DMRs they're trash, and there's no reason to buy one when Veprs exist.

So, here are the criticisms of the Hi Power:

>mag disconnect
It's loathsome. Fortunately it's easily removed. If you can't do it, your local gunsmith can.

>hammer bite
I've got a spur hammer and a ring hammer and I've never had trouble with either. But if you do, a hammer swap can be done.

>capacity
Flush fit 15 round mags are available from Mec Gar, the OEM manufacturer. Mec Gar also makes extended 20-rounders if you want to go full SAS mode.

>DA/SA is better than SAO
Why? I'm not trying to be a dick, honest, I've just never heard the reasoning behind this assumption. If I had a CZ, I'd carry it cocked and locked.

Any I've missed?
Not trying to start any shit, guys, I'm just trying to take a look at the points here.

>>33446180
sorry for the confusion I meant to reply to the other guy. i was saying psls aren't shit

>>33445400
Owning both I have to say that I prefer the trigger of the Hi Power after having the mag disconnect removed. I would be comfort with either or. Though I've been carrying the Cz longer.

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>>33446219
???
I'm saying PSLs ARE shit.

>>33446212
Mag disconnect is easy enough to remove so I don't count it as a real con, I've never had a problem with hammer bite either.

As far as capacity goes CZs start at 16 and go up to 26 (Technically 32 but that is a crappy Promag)

And on the DA/SA vs SAO, all of my CZs are decocker models. I carry with the hammer down and don't have to worry about a safety. This is subjective however, and if it matters that much CZ does make a SAO.

>>33445681
Post your guns faggot.

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>>33446265
I like you. I bought my psl before vepr was ever on my radar. Now that they aren't imported. I'd go vepr instead.

Still like the psl but the vepr can do the same job for cheaper. Mags suck on both though

>>33446265
no you said that you like them?

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>>33446310
> pic related

>>33446303
Like I said pham, no judgement here. You got me beat on slavshit anyway.

>>33445400
I have a Hi Power because it was my grandfather's and I didn't want to spend more money after having the gun gifted to me. Spent the money on ammo and other necessities instead.

My original intention was to get a cz-75 first though. It's more modern, still in production so spare parts are easily available (fuck current browning's expensive ass shit), has pretty large aftermarket with cheaper mags that hold more by default. It's also a personal preference, but I like the grip on the CZ a little better.

One annoyance with the Hi Power is the magazine safety, but that's pretty easy to remove. The standard safety sucks and should be replaced ASAP as well. The spur hammer can be annoying if you have fat hands or poor grip, but you can replace that pretty easily.

Either one will be a fine shooter, but if it's a first gun I'd recommend the CZ over the Hi Power.

From what it looks like people almost unanimously agree the cz is just a perfected hi power, which i would agree with, better ergonomics and better shooter overall, and a fraction of the cost

>>33445400
CZ is an improved hi-power. CZ is a better gun. So unless you've got a fetish for John Browning, get the CZ.

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>>33445445
>Id recommend the CZ if you dont want your gun blowing up in your face
What?

>>33445810
The Wehrmacht loved using their captured Czech tanks.

>>33446466
>>33446486
>CZ is a perfected Hi Power
>CZ is an improved Hi Power

This does seem to be the consensus, but can someone please explain this to me?

Is it that the CZ is double action? Or because the CZ has inverted rails?

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>>33446638
More reliable, better ergonomics, more accurate, cheaper new, more aftermarket parts and mags.

There is a reason the CZ is used by more shooting competition champions worldwide than any other pistol.

>>33445743
I respect you for owning up to it.

>>33446343
i think you're confused

>>33446638
the inverted rails are a negative

>>33446673
>more reliable
Citation needed

>>33446161
Yea, save it. I own a commercial Mk3 Hi Power.

I can't believe these things are still selling for 900 bucks.

>>33446673
Also there are more options available, with a Hi-Power you are stuck with a SAO 9mm with either a steel or aluminum frame. With CZs you can get SAO, DA/SA with safety or decocker, 9mm, 40, 45, sub-compact, compact, full size, steel frame, aluminum frame, and even polymer frame.

>>33446212
You forgot how the trigger is pure garbage even without the magazine safety and that the external safety is mushy as fuck.

>>33446735
Have you read about the NATO tests that the P01 went through?

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>>33446486
What are the engineering differences?

>>33446673
>More reliable
Okay, but why?

>>33446727
Tighter lock-up=better accuracy

Look at the Sig P210

>>33446808
Look at
>>33446773

>>33445400
I'd lean on the CZ for DA/SA and 17rd flush capacity.

>>33445445
Don't post here anymore.

>>33445681
I see lots of good shit there. I don't see your guns anywhere in this thread.

CZ


http://cz-usa.com/press-release/cz-p-01-gets-nato-approval-the-next-generation-of-perfect-pistols/

>>33445454
>easily removed

nigger, I had to take take my Hi-Power to a gun smith to get that god damn trigger pin removed. Even after that I fucked up my gun trying to get the trigger pin out so I had to get that refinished too.

SOMEBODY please tell me why DA/SA is better than SAO.

Is it just a preference thing?

I prefer cocked and locked just because I like it better, no bones about it. But folks in here keep bringing up the DA as a big plus for the CZ, why is that?

I'm not trying to be a dick, I just want to know.

>>33447276
100% preference. I like to carry in DA, safety off. I feel safe enough with the 11 lb trigger that its not going off unless the trigger is deliberately pulled. And I don't have to mess with a safety.

>>33447276
>SOMEBODY please tell me why DA/SA is better than SAO.

DA/SA gives you the option of carrying in DA or SA

Also second strike capability

>hard primer/light primer strike

>SAO/striker
>rack the slide

>DA/SA
>pull the trigger again

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>>33447222
>>33445909
Really? I've done it 3 times with a brass hammer and punch..

>>33447333
Did you do it on a brand new one?

>>33447276
Most of the time it doesn't matter.

But to be honest family it bothers me that there are circumstances (namely any time the hammer is down) under which an SAO firearm can have a live round chambered and the safety off where you can pull the trigger and the gun won't go off.
That isn't true of DA/SA guns.
Also DA/SA gives you a lot more options to carry without reducing your ability to respond should you need the gun in a pinch. Also the question of comfort levels.
Basically >>33447320

There's no downside to DA/SA (unless you want to get into hammer versus striker and even then IMO DA/SA wins).

>>33445851
>DA/SA>SAO

Your opinion is wrong.

>>33445454
SA is a much better mechanism in terms of feel though. If I get a CZ I'm converting it to SA only.

>>33447461
>There's no downside to DA/SA
Trigger slack. Buuuut that's about it.

>>33447320
Not all DA/SA guns can be carried cocked and locked and DA/SA guns have shitty single action triggers compared to SAO.

>Also second strike capability
Second strike is a fucking meme.

>>33447370
Dear God no. Who buys new hipower? Surplus israeli mostly

>>33447618
Surplus guns are beat to shit and worthless. I want something perferct.

>>33445714
Shoo. Go away.

>>33445810
Unironically thinking CZ is awful mcterrible is better?

>>33447461
And how are you going to get to having the hammer down on a live primer with the safety off? That kind of wacky handling is how people put holes in their walls.

>>33447947
Notice where I said
>most of the time it doesn't matter
I acknowledge that it's unlikely. And my CCW is striker-fired, so we're clear.

But the fact that it's possible at all is a downside of the design over DA/SA where that's literally an impossible situation.

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>>33445909
>>33447222
sounds like you idiots have no idea how to use basic tools, like a C clamp and a metal washer
>I fucked up my gun trying to get the trigger pin out so I had to get that refinished too
Theres a reason you dont have nice things, and its not because of the hi power.
>>33446748
>external safety is mushy as fuck
A mkIII have safeties that audibly click and you can feel it, not to mention getting a better safety is ALSO a 15 minute job and 35 dollars, less if its on safe.
>>33447621
>beat to shit and worthless
try again, pic related 375$ a year ago from CDISales

How in the world do you guys keep saying a CZ-75 is more reliable than a Hi power? this makes absolutely no sense to me.

>>33448370
Why couldn't the CZ be more reliable?

>>33448583
Why/how would it be?

>>33448370
It just is. Testing has been done proving its reliability over the Hi-Point.

>>33448633
hi point? your such a faggot.

>>33448737
It's true: the C3-P0 is much more reliable than the Hi-Point carbine.

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>>33448737
>your

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>>33445743
This fucker. Every god damn time. Literally kill yourself.

>>33445400
OP.
Get a sp-01 tactical... Its a cz 75 made for common day man.

>>33448354
>try again, pic related 375$ a year ago from CDISales
Their Hi Powers are normally beat to shit and pitted. You got a nice one of the bunch.

>>33448619
Why would the Hi-Power be more reliable? You're not making a case for it, you're just kind of saying it.

>>33449091
its called looking at the pictures you mong.
>>33449156
why wouldnt it, its trigger has less parts than a DA/SA, the machining is generally better, uses better materials and has a longer history of working no matter what ocnidtions its in, if you wanna say the brand new P-01 that was specially designed to be ridiculously reliable is better, i can understand, but saying all CZs are more reliable, or the CZ75 is more reliable when its quality can range from anime tier reliability to literally jamming every mag depending on what model you get and the year it was made.

>>33446303
C... Can you get 'em all sudsy and put them in the tub together, posed like they're all washing eachother?

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>>33449339
>sudsy water
>Steel and metal
KYS.

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>>33445400
CZs are better handguns. The capacity is better, DA/SA is a notable improvement, the recoil is noticeably less, and they're usually half the price of the Hi Power. With that said, there are a few disadvantages. CZs have a thin slide rail which can be tricky to grip, and they're actually a bit heavier than the already weighty steel Hi Power.

Both are excellent guns, although the Hi Power is fairly outdated for modern guns.

>>33449433
>CZs have a thin slide rail which can be tricky to grip

Not if you are a grown man

>and they're actually a bit heavier than the already weighty steel Hi Power.

Don't be a fuccboi

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>>33449339
>>33449384
Worst I've done so far. Old pic though

>>33445554
Aside from the extra weight to help get back on target quicker are they about as accurate?

I'm wanting to get one of the two but I'm leaning more towards P-01 so it can be a bedside gun. Don't really intend to carry it much.

>>33445688

just go

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>>33449449
Yes, even if you're a grown man. The Hi Power has an inch and a half of gripping space, the CZ has about three quarters of an inch. That's less gripspace than the thickness of your thumb, unless you've got fucking manlet hands. It's objectively easier to rack the slide on a Hi Power in case you need to clear a malfunction, since you lack the HURR DURR DUBBLE STRIKE of the CZ. By the way, if the gun misfires, you don't keep pulling the trigger, you dump the round and try a fresh one.

>Don't be a fuccboi

Most people that have shot my CZ or BHP are used to M&Ps, or Glocks, etc. I've gotten comments on how the steel framed guns are noticeably heavier, so it's worth mentioning that the CZ is a heavier gun.

>>33449449
Ironically the CZ 75 is extremely comfortable to shoot if you have large hands like I do, but those same large hands make grabbing the slide just a little more inconvenient than it is on other handguns.

Still recommend the CZ over the BHP

they're different guns
don't compare them

>>33449298
>its called looking at the pictures you mong.
Yes and a good 90% of them are like what I said.

>>33445400
The only reason to pick the Hi Power is if you like the way it looks or like the history behind it. The CZ is going to give you more bang for your buck in pretty much every way.

>>33445600
It's really hard not to like the CZ 75, especially given how reasonably priced they are. I don't think I'll ever sell mine.

>>33445688
He's not looking for a grenade.

>>33445445
Id recommend removing your head from your ass, But clearly it belongs there!

I've owned both. Both are good.

>>33448354
>A mkIII have safeties that audibly click and you can feel it
No, they don't. At least not back in the 80s and 90s which my Hi Powers date to. I shouldn't have to spend any more to fix a safety on a 900 dollar gun.

>>33447276
DA/SA is nice because the shooter has a choice of carrying cocked and locked or double action or even israeli carry i mean see if i care. You can do whatever you want.

With SAO you have to carry it cocked and locked.

>>33447489
You can just buy a SA CZ, no need to convert one. You have a lot of options when it comes to getting a CZ

>>33446773
Different guy, but were you aware that the Caracal received that same D-14 certification? If a terrible gun made by the UAE can meet those criterion, that makes me seriously doubt whether those tests have any relevance to real world reliability.

>>33452446
Then get the 1 in 10 that dosent, jesus christ its not that hard to get nice surplus.

>>33445400
Hi Power
>Larger slide to get a grip onto
>SA only (at least for the design I've owned)
>Easier full disassembly

CZ-75
>DA/SA
>Higher capacity
>More ergonomic grip (Varies from person to person)
>Easier field strip

Honestly, they're both great pistols, but I prefer the Hi Power however it's for a very basic reason. The slide is bigger and easier for me to manipulate. I also like being able to fully disassemble my firearms easily so as to do my own maintenance. It's also cool to know that the Canadian Armed Forces used the Hi Power from about 1944 right up until the 21st century. Sucks that it's been replaced, but I can't even remember what it's been replaced WITH. I think a Sig pistol of some sort, and oddly enough I think it was a single-stack. Anyways, that's my take on the designs.

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>>33454384
Eh, got one in infinitely better condition.

>>33457075
So you come online just to be a dick without context? Hope that makes you feel big.

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>>33446627
they also loved using BHPs

>>33445608
Is there a reason why you have a Makarov, Tokarev, and a Dragunov but no AK?

>>33457401
Forget this, I saw your next picture. Where the fuck you store all your weapons? A cointainer like Lord of War?

>>33449544
are they having a shower orgy?

>>33457203
No, just noting how pitted most of the hi powers from CDISales are. Just don't feel like going through the effort of filtering them out.

>>33457401
>Dragunov

What a fag.

>>33457375
Wow, less than a third of a million and I once owned one... that's pretty awesome. It's also probably my most favourite 9mm pistol to date.

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>>33445400
I think the CZ is a bit more practical and can look beautiful. It's up to your personal preferences I suppose. CZ has double action, Hi Power is SAO so it functions basically like a Glock but with the disadvantage of having a hammer. Looks great blued but they don't usually come blued, I did mine myself.

>today I shall remind them
As an instructor, I strive to be a good student. Good students are always learning. And last week in Canada, I learned that CZ pistols (pronounced “see zed” in Canadiese) are as reliable as a Ford.

A Ford Pinto, that is.

There were four CZ75-pattern guns (one Tangfolio and three genuine CZs) used by three different students over the course of the week, and every one of them had reliability problems.

The owners were great students and never let the pistol problems interfere with the class. They had fantastic attitudes and shot very well when their guns worked. But from failures to feed to failures to extract to failures to eject to failures to lock back to premature lock back, we saw the whole spectrum of handgun malfunctions from those guns.

The Glocks in the class didn’t have any consistent problems. Even the two S&W 3rd Generation pistols ran well except for some grip and lubrication hiccups. In fact, the only gun that had more problems was a used, second-hand Para P14.45, and who is surprised by that?

CZ pistols are both popular and successful in the world competition arena. They’re also very common among various militaries throughout the globe. But here in the U.S., they’ve never really earned a serious share of the market. They have a reputation for reliability and durability problems. And after four straight days of watching them choke, I’d say it’s a well deserved reputation.
1/2

>>33458164
In fairness, one student got his gun working 100% on day four after replacing the extractor spring. The pistol had a little under 14,000 rounds through it when the troubles began. If that had been the only CZ that suffered such trouble during the classes, it would be excusable. But all four?

The CZ is a shootable gun. The CZ Shadow I shot had an excellent trigger and was accurate enough for me to hit an 8″ range marker at 100yd. The owner (class host Rob Engh) reports that he’s easily averaging 0.17 splits and on some drills turning in 0.14 and even 0.13 splits with that same pistol!

Nonetheless, if a gun can’t be depended upon to go bang when the trigger is pressed, it’s a paperweight. Speed and accuracy mean a lot less when you’re prying a stuck case out from underneath an extractor claw.

I’m sure there will be CZ fans who will talk about their personally owned guns that have gone x-number of rounds without a problem. And I don’t doubt it. But when put to the test under the stress of a high volume shooting class, these guns simply couldn’t make it. Not one, not two, but all four.

Zed is not your friend.

Train hard & stay safe! ToddG

>>33458164
>>33458182
>Todd's article ignores the fact that not all those guns were even CZs, if you read in the comments at least 1 was actually a Tanfoglio gun, and other people were using Tanfoglio mags in their CZ pistols. Further, one of the guys simply needed to replace his extractor spring after 14k rounds, and doing that healed his pistol completely. So we don't know the exact setup each person had, but 1 of the 4 "problem guns" wasn't even a CZ (which Todd conveniently didn't mention) another of the 4 simply needed a new extractor spring after 14k rounds, and the other people were using magazines that weren't even designed for their guns. This is basically the same as saying "I saw 4 Glocks in class all have problems" and not mentioning that one was actually a S&W Sigma, one simply needed a new spring, and the other two people were using Korean aftermarket mags. Todd's article is more of a hatchet job than anything.
This was the same guy who claimed the PX4's rotary barrel action was so unreliable the pistol would lock up and need smacked open with a rubber mallet every few hundred rounds...funny how no one but him and his tiny class of canuck LEOs has seemed to be able to replicate this issue in a fucking decade and a half. Even funnier is how his own forum went from hating CZs and PX4s due entirely to these internet posts of his to loving both designs shortly before his passing...