PDW's

Just use a bullpup SBR m90

>>33436468
The PDWs do serve a purpose in that they are full auto, smaller replacements for sub machine guns like the old MP5. The secret service carries the MP7 because of its concealable size and brutal lethality. Submachine guns like the MP5 and UMP have become obsolete because of their size and inferiority to short barrel rifles which are not significantly larger and heavier. So imho now its PDWs are useful and have a place as do rifles and submachine guns are a meme.

>>33436468

PDWs fulfill a role. One that needs cocealability and tight handling.

Full auto PDWs can be very useful in home defense, but in semi auto only they lose a lot of usefulness. Outside of urban areas, a rifle beats it in every aspect. Even inside its niche, a rifle does fine.

Don't get me wrong, I love PDWs. They're usually the most original and fun guns.

>>33436468
I like the MP7, but it's unobtainable for non licensees (and wouldn't be select fire anyway) and I'm not paying 10k for a post-86.

Them being expensive as fuck is why you don't see LE using them ever.

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They're not more a meme than any other reasonably designed firearm.

One of the big draw backs is that shot placement is super important. The bullets are very fast and tend to punch through people imparting less energy to the target. There was an article that came out written by an entry team member about them, and he claimed that in actual use on bad guys, each one needed 5 or 6 hits from a PDW where a SBR or rifle was one or two hits. He was talking specifically about P90s and MP7s.

I think they're awesome, and I love submachine guns. Sadly, from a logistical and practical stand point an SBR in the same caliber as the standard rifle does the job just as well as a PDW. Which is a shame, PDWs are pretty much the only area of real innovation in the arms world right now.

>>33436622
>One of the big draw backs is that shot placement is super important.
>The bullets are very fast and tend to punch through people imparting less energy to the target
So if I put 3 4.6mm rounds through your skull you're gonna be unfazed due to less "imparting energy"? Thanks for clearing that up

>>33436622
I'm guessing this 'entry team member' was using the AP loads for 5.7x28 and 4.6x30 while the rifles had non AP loads.

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It's a tool like any other and does have its uses and purposes. Even a Red Ryder BB gun will still shoot your eye out.

>proprietary ammunition
Nigga just use a sub-gun.

>>33436786
>be stuck with pistol terminal ballistics
This isnt the 60s

>>33436786
>proprietary ammunition
It's not.

>>33436468
>MP7
Armorer must clean every 500 rounds

>>33436835
Huh?

>>33436808
4.6x30mm and 5.7mm ARE pistol terminal ballistics. Their main feature is penetration through body armor primarily.

>>33436835
>I'm gonna fire 500 rounds during a vip protection detail.
> I have twelve 40 round magazines on my person as well as one loaded into my firearm
Okay

>>33436860
Your forgetting vectors sir

>>33436860
That's wrong. 5.7x28mm and 4.6x30mm have almost identical terminal ballistics (at a shorter range) to an intermediate rifle cartridge.

Can someone tell me what the difference between an SMG and a PDW is? Seems to me that PDW is just a buzzword for SMG. I mean, they're both full-auto in a pistol cartridge, meant to be fired from the shoulder.

>>33436930
Again, that begs the question, why not just bring an SBR.

I'm having trouble imagining the niche that PDWs fit into.

>>33436468
A PDW just describes the role for the weapon, it doesn't describe the round used like the term SMG does. So a carbine with a folding stock or no stock can be used as a PDW.

The issue for PDWs is that they are supposed to walk the line between a carbine and a submachine gun, but because the MP7 and P90 either feed their magazine through the grip or have a companion pistol that does the same they are still limited in overall cartridge length just like a pistol would be. The need to high-capacity to feed a full-auto weapon means that the cartridge can't be too fat, either.

>>33436860
So it's pistol ballistics except for the whole part where they do what pistols cant. Gotcha.

>>33437185
Depending on the setup higher capacity, smaller package, lighter weight, less horrendous muzzle blast due to more efficient design, less recoil etc.

The thing is the end up getting used or portrayed in ways they weren't meant to be. They were supposed to be "OH SHIT" guns.

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If i were a rich psycho I'd Keep one in my car's glove box.

>>33437322
That's why the KAC PDW got it right.

>>33437882
Right, but then you run into the issue of how much is a military/security agency/police force going to pay to acquire a new weapon platform where the primary benefit is less recoil/blast out of the short barrel but the overall packaging is still fairly similar to an SBR [I think it came in pretty light on the weight, in its defense]?

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>>33436468
Honestly, I would jump on a SBR PS90 if the ammo was cheaper. Like 5.56 cheap.

>>33436885
No, but anyone using them is going to blow through a hell of a lot more than that in training

>>33438261
31 cents per round?
http://ammoseek.com/ammo/5.7x28mm

>>33436468
5.56x30 MARS and .221 Remington Fireball have better ballistics than 4.6x30 and 5.7x28

>>33437177
SMG is a type of firearm, PDW is more how the firearm is meant to be employed. There is some overlap between though two but PDWs often have non-standard ammunition for better use against armored targets. 5.7x28, 4.6x30, 6.5cmj, 9.whatever vbr etc

Many people consider the .30carbine to be the original PDW.

>>33438261
Nice meme, 5.7 Is .45acp cheap.

>>33438320

no one cares about your fair-trade hipster rounds

>>33436643
I'd say the skull is pretty good fucking shot placement, retard

>>33436622
What's this guys in the gif YouTube channel I can't remember

>>33438333
.221 Remington Fireball isn't hipster and is sold commercially. and there are hunting firearms available for them

>>33438261
Why couldn't FN sell a P90 "pistol" with just no kind of buttpad on the back? I promise I won't shoulder it.

>>33438365
Dugan Ashley of CarnikCon

May not have spelled that correctly

>>33438417
Thanks

>>33438350
So if shot placement is king then why bother with the queen?

>>33436468
they tend to suck slightly more than handguns for killing things in a timely fashion. They offer very few advantages over other categories of firearms outside of situations where concealment is a factor and body armor is likely to be encountered.

>>33438500
anything with a stock is going to be infinitely more effective than a handgun

>>33438384
Search for a p90 schematic and answer that question for yourself

>>33438500
So higher rate of my accurate fire with AT WORST comparable ballistics somehow sucks more than a pistol....ok

Have you ever seen the SCAR PDW?

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>>33438589

>>33436835
>Not cleaning your guns every 500 rounds

This isn't serbia

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The 6.5 CBJ is still my holy grail, shame I'd never be able to feed it properly. The ballistic capabilities of that round are simply awe inspiring. It's also a huge plus that any 9mm can be converted to fire the CBJ round with a simple barrel change, I've made one for my glock but I'm still desperately searching for one for my MP9. MP7's are all over the post sample market for great prices, but again they're costly to feed.

Got an HK51K in NFA purgatory for 8 months now if that counts. I'd consider it to be about as hard hitting as a PDW can be, if you'd consider a .308 with a 6" barrel a PDW.

In all honesty with the number of SBR/FA AR lowers in circulation I'd imagine an AR build would more than suffice for a PDW.

>>33439120
Fuck is that really you?

>>33437177
PDW is absolutely a buzzword. Companies will use the term for any firearm they want. In general it refers to SMG-sized guns in a small necked cartridge (basically an SMG) but there are also several 9mm and 5.56 guns that are called PDWs.

Now for the origin of the term, it really just meant "gun". NATO's original request called for both shoulder-fired and handheld "personal defense weapons", aka a rifle/SMG and a pistol but they didn't want to possibly restrict some futuristic space magic weapons by using the term "gun". The request became a big MP-7 vs P90 shitfest. Everybody sort of forgot about the pistol and component and referred to those two guns as PDWs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Five-seven#Development

>>33436519
>full auto PDWs can be very useful in home defense

>>33439120
why the fuck does kriss only seem to offer the ar-15 style stocks now?

>>33439369
Because it's mainstream.

The original stock was fine and the current production ones look like shit.

>>33438589
Most PDWs(4.6 and 5.7mm in particular) when used with the ammunition out there for them have demonstrably worse wounding ability than any expanding/fragmenting intermediate rifle round. This is due to their significantly lower mass and/or velocity. With expanding rounds they have worse wounding potential than handgun rounds due to their smaller diameter. Theres a reason that most professional organizations that actually used these weapons in the past have since moved away from them. They don't put people down well, their expensive, the ammos expensive, full auto firearms require more training/paperwork, and parts/repairs are expensive. Anecdotally speaking LEOs have said that due to the combination of high ROF and relative lack of effect on target that OIS incidents with PDWs tend to involve significantly more rounds being fired which increases the possibility of misses and looks kinda bad to normies PR wise.

>>33438464
Because nailing someone straight in the nose doesn't really matter if it just bounces off