Will drones be effective in a conventional war?

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>>33418199
Also

*Blocks your path*

>>33418199
>Will killer robots kill?

Yes.

>>33418199
It will till the losing country starts blowing up satellites and jaming the radio.

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>>33418199
no because jam exists

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>>33418212

>>33418227
>implying any nation has the capability to jam an entire battlefield without leaving their jamming capabilities out front and vulnerable.

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>>33418295
I can ide hin hole. I am not short but will do. dig more

>>33418295
>implying any nation has the capability to jam an entire battlefield without leaving their jamming capabilities out front and vulnerable.

-----um ya-----you can-----
its called a broad spectrum RF jammer and they're cheap and simple as fuck
downside is that they jam everything

>>33418199
what do they do when signal is lost ?
iirc the sky drones just fall-back on the last known gps fix and follow a pre set patrol path until contact is re established or they head back to the launch coordinates

>>33418553
Russins have been using teletanks since world war 2

>>33418199

yes because they'll be lowest quality mass produced shitboxes, designed to be dumped out of airplanes and flown until they are physically destroyed. Imagine a reusable missile.

>>33418295

Depending on the situation, it might not matter. For example, if the US is strategically bombing a country to nonexistence then that country could go for broke and jam everything, relying on motorcycle couriers.

>>33418199
It's interesting, we've seen through the Ukraine conflict both sides using drones as forward observers for counter battery and general information.
Knowing who's where is an amazing advantage.

>>33418221
can a robot that destroys a robot be considered a killer? really its just property damage.

>>33418838

Can only jam so much for so long. That shit is energy intensive, and it's not exactly difficult to ascertain their position.

Hopefully OP

Just imagine a world where wars are decided by BATTLE BOT ROYALES, THIS SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY, WHO WILL WIN? THE CHINESE "HIBACHI HERO" OR THE TAIWANESE "PROTESTING POWERBOT"? FIND OUT THIS SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY! ONLY ON WW3D!

>>33418199
Yes, Although not in as dramatic as fashion as you were hoping. Mostly, they are going to carry cameras. Drones are cheap enough you can put them at very low levels, organizationally. When you start putting air reconnaissance platforms in the hands of platoon leaders, or battery commanders, who get the information immediately, instead of the info going only to the army group headquarters, three days (or more) after the fact, Its a big change. Your also probably going to see larger HALE and MALE type platforms used for long patrols, hunting down infiltration units, and generally keeping the edges of the war better monitored at lower cost and with fewer pilot manhours.

>>33419136

So... G Gundam?

>>33418199
>>33418212
>no weapon stabilisation

>>33419181
>33419086
>meme words

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>>33418199
probably

>>33418199
>Will drones be effective in a conventional war?
Only for recon and pre-planned strike. Jamming will fuck them over for any mission which can't be performed autonomously.

>>33418295
They only have to jam the satellites though...

>>33418227
Not really. Range of those things are about 3-5km, enough to place control vehicle out of range of most ATGMs and infantry carried mortars. To jam signal on such short range (and you can be sure that signal is pretty strong and already jam resistant) you need a very powerful jammer (which will be found easily and bombed) or place it very close to drone, then it may be fire support.
Uran-9 is already roiling through Syria, btw.

>>33418227

the next generation of stealthy UCAVs are looking into AI that can operate independently (BAE's Taranis program has been confirmed as doing this http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aerospace/2016-07-07/taranis-flight-test-details-described ). While for the moment they will have a "man-in-the-loop" for legal reasons, in a peer war it is likely that they will operate independently if there is jamming.

>Both sides develop drones to reduce casualties
>start phasing out infantry as it is less costly to deploy drones
>eventually both sides deploy nothing but robots and the robots kill eachtother
>war becomes a literal competitive video game match except the robots are real

what is the point of this?

>>33420602
To have control over resources, or obtain more power.

>>33418838
Except motorcycle couriers are slow as balls. Enjoy trying to coordinate a defense--let alone an offensive operation--by handwritten notes traveling at 50 mph. That's the same bullshit that was ignored during the Millennium Challenge

>>33420602
You will always need infantry to occupy territory.

>>33418715
Not actually though.

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>>33420602
>what is the point of this?

>>33420051
>janmer that only jams when it picks up drone signals is easy to find and bomb
>drone operator broadcasting loudly is not

>>33418199
They are used extensively at the moment, namely the flying ones. There are lost ravens all the fuck over Iraq.
>>33418225
>>33418227
Happens sometimes, the drone flies back to the launch point and you try again.

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Scarabs when?

>>33419154

>G Gundam

I really want to know what percentage of the production budget for that show was spent on drugs. It's great.

>>33421000
Isn't that just a rip off of the Swords from Screamers? Old movie but a goody.

>>33421017

It reminded me of Boston Dynamics Big Dog fucks a Xenomorph and gets rocket launchers strapped to it.

Probably the most interesting enemy to fight in the game.

>>33418199
God damn. Those Russians are not afraid of the dakka. It's like they don't even understand the concept of too much dakka.

>>33420869
lol no

>>33419960
Why the blinders?

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>>33421078
Who will repair and maintain the robots?

I can foresee one person per robot for maintenance and unless you have nuclear powered drones there will be logistics for fuel.

Aliens will take control of all the robotic militaries.

https://youtu.be/pyMNIFZTQkg

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>>33418295
>implying the enemy can detect your jammers broadcast frequancy before the loop changes

>>33418199
>Will drones be effective in a conventional war?

a more interesting question....

when will automated fighting machines takeover warfare and make humans obsolete ?

clearly the winning country needs a huge manufacturing base to crank out zillions of drones & robots to do the fighting & killing, so that people can sit back and play video games

countries that don't have this technology will just be shot to hell and cease to exist

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As long as the Broadcast Energy Transmitter is still working.

>>33418227
You can't jam it if it's not under remote control.

The only thing that's keeping us from deploying fully autonomous killing machines at this point is the squeamishness of an aging generation of political leaders. In an all-out war with another major power, their objections will be irrelevant.

If done are the future then humanity is about to get skynetted.

Will we still be getting fighter jet drones?

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>>33422383
Embrace it.

>>33422394
eventually

>>33420602
So Robot Jox becomes real

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>>33422417
Tay is proof AI's will see the light

>>33421108
So they don't get spooked and buck their riders.

>>33421108

Mmmn..

Maybe so he can see the screen clearly without the Sun overcoming the brightness of the screen?

I would believe that in the military such screens are sturdier and made to save batery life, so between choosing the minor annoyance of having to use it with your own shadow or making it a bit more delicate and less durable I would definely choose the first.

Of course, I'm talking out of my ass here, I'm just saying that it would make sense.

>>33421108
Probably shitty old LCDs with weak backlights and they found them to be unusable in bright sun

>>33420977
What if GPS is jammed as well. The best it could do take a compass heading back home but I don't think the on board computer can read the landscape know which direction from North it needs to go.

>>33423063
GPS jamming is easy but of limited use in many situations. It's still energy intensive to cover a large area and INS chips are getting cheap.

Jamming communications across a large area is effectively impossible for anything smaller then a destroyer. You need a titanic amount of power.

>>33423269
One country can easily destroy satlites. The US has done it with a fighter and a special missile.

The GPS satlites are harder to hit being in geocentric orbit but I know Russian and the US has the ability to take them down in 48 hours if needed.

>>33420602
>Opfor detonates a HANE. (High Altitude Nuclear Explosion.)
>All of your drones get fried.
>Real soldiers kill your drone operators.

>>33420855
Laser comms take over.

>>33423415
A little smoke it is disabled. Also put on some night vision goggles and you knowwhere to attack next.

>>33418212
>YOU HAVE 10 SECONDS TO COMPLY

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>>33418199
>btfo by paintball gun

>>33421597
The jammer has to broadcast on the same frequency as the thing it's jamming or it won't do anything.

>>33419136
>WW3D

Underrated

>>33418199
Drones are used in war for a great effect since 1944.

>>33424097
>implying heat/thermals are defeated by a layer of paint

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>>33424097

>>33421352

> Who will repair and maintain the robots?

> I can foresee one person per robot for maintenance and unless you have nuclear powered drones there will be logistics for fuel.

This really depends on the quality of automation. It's a long way off, but it would be stupid to declare that maintenance is ~impossible~ to automate.

Besides- how often do you have to take your car to the mechanic? Quality robotic infantry would probably be pretty hands-off (which i predict would take a few decades)

Refueling is perhaps the easiest logistic, it's relatively trivial to have robots refuel and resupply.

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>>33421352
There will be robots to repair the robots

>>33426547
the whole robot thing taking jobs is stupid. if a robot can take your job, then so be it. you dont see people complaining that time keepers or watchmakers deserve a job because digital clocks take their jobs away. you find something else to do.

theres literally hundreds of thousands of jobs now completely gone because technology took it, and guess what, the world keeps turning

>>33426978
*job TYPES. probably billions of jobs over humanities life time have been lost. it used to be a legit job to carry ice down from the mountains to chill peoples beverages, not anymore. anyone yelling "those poor ice carriers, ban refrgierators"

>>33418227
https://youtu.be/rGvblGCD7qM

>>33426978
Maybe it's because people like having an income so they don't get kicked out of their home and starve?

>>33427111
absolutely, which is why those watchmakers, ice carriers

found another job

>>33418376
So the best way to use drones is to have just enough to help your force , but not so many that the enemy is willing to fuck up their own comms
too?

>>33421004
I will never forget that the Mexican Gundam was named Tequila Gubdam, wore a sombrero and was piloted by an illegal immigrant.

>>33427520
>>33426978
Funny thing is mechanical watches are steadily growing in popularity again as premium/fashion pieces, watches being the only permissible type of jewelry for men. Everyone has a network timed cell phone anyway so who cares it it's a few seconds off every day.

>>33420904
>what is radiation pattern

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>>33420517
>While for the moment they will have a "man-in-the-loop" for legal reasons
Why? Cruise missiles don't. Literally the ONLY difference is that a drone comes back home and lands after blowing shit up.

>>33430289
Well, a person has to pull the trigger...?

>>33430289

If you read the article, they already have the ability to; identify threats, create their own strike missions, and assess damage without human support. The only reason they don't authorise weapon use themselves is because of the taboo of autonomous killing machines.

>>33418295
>You jam the enemy's weapons so they can no longer be remotely controlled
>Programming takes over and the machine continues to roll over your troops and slaughter your men until connection can be reestablished or until the primary directive has been fulfilled
>The only difference now is that there you have no means to surrender

This may not be the scenario now, but it will be in the future.

>>33430289
theres a huge difference. you dont a cruise missle and let it decide what to hit on its own. you fire a cruise missile because you know what you want to hit and have decided to hit it. thats the difference. if cruise missles found their own target based on their own reasoning mid flight, THEN it would be similar.

not saying its a good reason or necessary, just thats the reasoning

>>33430405
>programming your own drones to waste your own soldiers if it loses connection in any way

gee, i wonder what the real problem is here

>>33419070
>forward observers for counter battery and general information.

Heck even a couple of small, easy to launch drones are great for just getting a lay of the land, what/who is in a compound, how many people might be on a 2nd-3rd floor etc and saves you trying to hunt around for the most ninja members of your unit to do a recce
Weaponising them is really only a small part of their utility imo

>>33430421
These drones will be smart enough to effectively know where they are. It's not like they suddenly forget where they are or what they're doing if they lose connection to the net. If they're just sitting at base then they will continue to sit at base in the event of a connection loss. If they're in the middle of a fire fight then they will continue with the fire fight.

Not sure why you're implying that the thing would pull a 180 and start shooting your own dudes.

>>33427520
And what happens when there aren't enough kinds or amounts of jobs left for everyone?

>>33430306
So you "pull the trigger" when you launch the drone on a strike mission.
>>33430358
That makes a little more sense, but there's still plenty of engagements that drones could perform autonomously without treading anywhere missiles haven't already been.

>>33419086
A robot can kill a robot as long as both robots signed a consensual agreement that itself as part of a military force can be killed at any time and to inform whom the remains and inheritance goes to. If robot kills robot not part of military regulation than it is a crime, however robots of an unstructured resistance or otherwise insurgents that are not part of the opposing forces are not protected by the Geneva Convention.

>>33430495
make one

>>33430358
>because of the taboo of autonomous killing machines.
Not taboo if you are progressive Sweden:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgNTO-4ukkk

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>>33420977
>the drone flies back to the launch point and you try again
Lel.

>>33430418
>if cruise missles found their own target based on their own reasoning mid flight, THEN it would be similar.
what is asm

>>33430418
>The Harpoon missile was designed to sink warships in an open-ocean environment. Other weapons (such as the Standard and Tomahawk missiles) can be used against ships, but Harpoon and Penguin are the only missiles used by the United States military with anti-ship warfare as the primary mission. Once targeting information is obtained and sent to the Harpoon missile, it is fired. Once fired, the missile flys to the target location, turns on its seeker, locates the target and strikes it without further action from the firing platform. This allows the firing platform to engage other threats instead of concentrating on one at a time.

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>>33421037
there isn`t such thing as "too much dakka". There is, however, a thing - "too few targets".

>>33431559
>Once targeting information is obtained and sent to the Harpoon missile, it is fired.
Eggxactly. A drone gets its targeting information when it is already flying overhead.

A powerful small radar can kill a cheap drone.

I expect the first use of battlefield laser weapons will be anti-drone.

Low flying drones are called skeet.

Research for small cheap anti-drone missiles is also going on. You don't need much missile warhead to kill a small drone. Drones that are broadcasting are obvious to certain sensors and easy to target.

Why drones start flying on first world country battlefields it get interesting with all the counter measures and counter counter measures.

>>33431959
>Once fired, the missile flys to the target location, turns on its seeker, locates the target and strikes it without further action from the firing platform.

>>33432029
>Why drones start flying on first world country battlefields
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mole_Cricket_19

>>33432029
http://www.rubincenter.org/2010/09/rodman-2010-09-07/

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Have the Ruskis accounted for this?

>>33418199
>>33418227
>>33418295
>>33418376
>>33418553
>>33418715

But, what about EMP bombs?
Is it easy to recover from a EMP bomb?

>>33432142
>Kornet
>Wire

>>33432142
yeah sure the enemy could know your specific identification signal for that particular missile...

>>33432324
you don`t need to know identification signal. You just flood the dangerous direction with broad band IR light. Those "red eyes" on T-90 do the trick. For IR-guided or IR-tracked missiles, those floodlights do the trick. For radar - guided, or radio-controlled, ECM works nearly the same way. For optically guided, or laser guided - smoke screen with specific anti-laser aerosol is developed. That means that there is no way to guide the missile to the tank with 100% success rate. However, those damned sand niggers manage to pop both T-72 and M1 with unguided RPG-7...

>>33432428
The 'red eyes' of a T-90 have proven ineffective against post 80's missiles.

>>33431559
>The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is, whichever is greater, the missile acquires deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviation to generate corrective commands to drive the missile from a position where it is to a position where it wasn't, and arriving as a position that it wasn't, it now is.

>>33433044
>what is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_radar_homing

>>33432779
They are ok against Russian Konkurs-M and Metis-M
>inb4 russian ECM are only effective asagint russian equipment

>>33430450
>technology is magic!
>uniforms don't get stolen all the time!!
retard, stick to your cheetos

>>33418225
>Blowing up Comms satellites

When will this meme die? There has never been a successful GEO intercept, which is where comms and navigation satellites live. The only successful satellite interceptions have been in LEO, where reconnaissance satellites live. You can fit the entire earth between LEO and GEO almost three times over. It is a very big difference.

>>33421108
So that the blue light from the screen doesn't give his position away at night. During the day it helps block out sunlight, so it's never removed

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>>33428004
>not having neo holland as your favorite g-gundam mech

But, seriously that show was as awesome as it was racist

>tfw waiting for neo Jamaica to just be a bong with a gundam head for the base

>>33430358
Landmines and those basically-a-tropedo-on-the-sea-floor mines have been around for ages

shit thread

No one mentioned simple AI once. Drones will have simplistic AI that will allow them to work without guidance.

It's very simple.

- Swarm of AI drones brought to front lines
>thousand launch and are given a general direction
>they swarm out randomly and kill any humans in that general direction in the desired direction/area

There is no signal required. You can also deploy 40-50 per enemy human you wish to kill and still come out cost effective.

Basically drones become a sort of fire and forget type of weapon. The enemy either has to shield itself completely indoors or inside something armored or it's dead. Small shaped charges or a simple nade is enough.

If you are in the open as an infantry, you will see about 50 drones screaming in per human around you. So 10 people will see 500 drones all flying in random patterns. The drones will then descend or attack from multiple angles and blow you to shit.

There is no infantry anymore. War is different.

They also don't require guidance.

>>33436117
To understand this

necessary tech-
Drones - already available
small explosives - already available
basic target seeking AI - already available

All the pieces are there. Mass production is all that's left. Imagine an infantry unit of 20 people with a truck full of drones of this variety.

They get even close to enemy contact, unleash drones, and it will kill every single enemy in the open for a much cheaper cost than other methods.

>>33418212
>At least a dozen manpads strapped to a turret with a retarded IR camera
Is this from a Japanese videogame?

>>33418212
pretty sure the drones are cheaper to build

the problem with anti-drone shit is that drones can potentially be dirt cheap. You need very cheap anti-drone technology that can be mass produced.

>>33436117
>or inside something armored
It applies to armored too. Shaped charge able to penetrate 300mm of armor weight around 1 kg, 1000 mm of armor with ERA around 7 kg. Drones with such payload are commercially available and cost mere $1000-3000. This is not a problem to programs such drones to land on tank's roof.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX0UELNRR1I

>>33432167
I dunno ask cnn they seem credible on fake stuff

>>33419086
Damaging government/military weaponry with another weapon would land a human in prison for so long that murder would have probably been less years. Not to mention the mandatory CIA flashlight up the asshole that would come with the territory. Sonto answer your question, it's basically the same.

They're called soldiers.