Who are the worst military leaders in history? No meme answers please

>>33411806
Mao Zedong probably.

>>33411806
Ambrose Burnside

>>33411806

Robert E. Lee

He completely fucked up the golden opportunity McClellan gave the South and then surrendered like a fuckboi at the end instead of ordering his men to fight to the last man, woman, and child against the Unionist horde.

Also, Friedrich Paulus was a piece of shit.

>>33411806
Whoever was responsible for the italian invasion of france in 1940.

>>33411819
>t. butthurt sisterfucker

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>>33411806

>>33411806
Helmuth von Moltke the Younger and Franz Conrad von Hötzendorf. Read up on the first 5 weeks of WW1.
Thanks for fucking it all up guys.

>>33411806
Hitler.

The fate of Nazi Germany is a perfect illustration of why politicians should get out of the way of generals and just let them do their jobs.

>>33412161
This,

>>33412161
>>33412241
Hitler helped plan numerous operations that were successful though.

>>33412409
Yes, an incompetent can be lucky once or twice. That's no reason to leave them in charge, because they have a tendency to fuck up right when it's really important.

Luigi Cadorna.

Everything that made Italy fucking worthless in ww1 was this cocksuckers fault

We could have a reunified Roman legion right now if this clown was fired. From a Cannon

>>33411806
>meme
Just say shit, it's what you meant anyway.

The dickbag who was in charge of MALS-36 in 1998. Fuck that guy.

>>33412430
The "Hitler fucked up the operations" meme is revisionism on the part of the German command survivors.

>>33412430
>an incompetent can be lucky once or twice.

He clearly wasn't incompetent when it comes to planning as the vast majority of operations he was involved in planning were successful.

>>33411806
Douglas MacArthur did literally everything wrong and became famous on the backs of superior generals and admirals.

>>33411806
in my country people use his lastname "Cadorna" to describe something of bad quality or something that is pure shit... Ture story many italians came after ww1

>>33411806
Hitler.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salah_Aboud_Mahmoud

>>33412409
Untrue.
The successful invasion of France through the Ardennes was actually a reaction to the Allies capturing the original invasion plans. Hitler was tangentially involved at best with creating the new strategy and only approved the plans brought to him by others, on top of that it was mostly French incompetence that let it succeed (frankly the French could - and should - have crushed the Germans while they were busy in Poland and had they had even a degree of organisation their superior tanks could have held in the Battle of France). Rubber-stamping the plans of other people =/= being a strategic genius but at least he was aware of his limits early on.
Later on once he seized total control of the armed forces he made strategic fuck up after strategic fuck up.

A special mention also goes to Goering: a fairly competent fighter pilot does NOT make a good head of the air force (and that's before we get into the fact his frontline experience was decades out of date).
>>33412510
Hitler's direct intervention fucked up later-war operations though he was hardly the only cause of Germany's problems, early war he was much more hands-off. Failures on the Eastern Front combined with convincing himself he had won in France resulted in him firing everyone else and assuming direct control.
You are correct to a degree though, blaming everything on Hitler/the Nazi leadership alone was part of a Cold War plan to rehabilitate the Wehrmacht so German remilitarisation could happen; the myths around figures like Rommel were also part of this.

>>33411810
Mao was actually a competent military commander, he was just a painfully naive national leader who let himself be surrounded by sycophants.

>>33411806
Anthony Wayne.

>>33411806
Why couldn't the Duke of Aosta have commanded the army and be done with that incompetent fop Cadorna?

>>33412161

Truly this.

>>33412161
On the other hand, the fate of Imperial Germany is a perfect illustration of why you need politicians who don't have autism and an inferiority complex.

>>33411806
Oskar Potiorek.

>>33411806
Hitler was a pretty shit military leader

>>33412808
Or just Monarchs who don't fire one of the smartest men in history because he didn't let them build a pretty navy.

>>33412755
>The successful invasion of France through the Ardennes was actually a reaction to the Allies capturing the original invasion plans.

How? Both sides already knew the Germans were coming through Belgium since it was only choice. Got a source?

And rubber stamping =/= denying every dumb plan presented that everyone knew would end up in a trench war stalemate in belgium until one guy presented an actual manouver warfare plan and going with it.

> Cadorna chosen as the worst Italian general of WWI
> Not Badoglio

Really, I expected better.

By the way, WWI makes it too easy to pick totally incompetent, clueless and even disastrous leaders. From all nations you can pick plenty of them, French and Germans included.
There are some exception, though. For instance, Capello was decent and especially Caviglia was great on the italian side.
But I concur, the worst complete idiot and criminal was surely Conrad Von Hotzendorf. Do read up on him, it's unbelievable.

In ancient times, there's also plenty of them. I'd vote for Q. Servilius Caepio at Arausio.
Refused to link up with a relief army led by Mallius Maximus because that guy was a plebeian, thus allowing Cimbri and Teutons to destroy the two Roman army separatedly, and also fled the field leaving his soldiers as soon as the first barbarian attacked his side.

>>33412843
>How? Both sides already knew the Germans were coming through Belgium since it was only choice. Got a source?
The Mechelen Incident, this is pretty well known: before it went down all plans were to attack through Belgium.
Now yes Hitler, probably out of personal experience of WW1, wanted to avoid trench warfare but his 'plans' to avoid it were all pie-in-the-sky fantasy bullshit until a proper alternative was presented which he then pushed for not out of strategic competence but personal bias (it roughly looked like what he wanted and was itself wildly optimistic, it really only worked because of unpredictable incompetence in the French army). This alternative only showed up as a result of the allied capture of the original plans. Hitler's personal contribution was minimal.
>And rubber stamping =/= denying every dumb plan presented that everyone knew would end up in a trench war stalemate in belgium until one guy presented an actual manouver warfare plan and going with it.
I did point out that early on Hitler was more accepting of his limitations, perhaps rubber-stamping is a bit unfair but he only approved plans brought to him by more competent generals and even then only because of personal reasons. Later he came to believe/was convinced by others that he alone was responsible for the victory over France and so thought assuming direct control over the armed forces would bring victory. This was foolish. And again: he only finally accepted plans to push through the Ardennes once the original plans were leaked.

Hitler was not a strategic genius: he did have some degree of sympathy for the man on the front as you'd expect of someone involved in tactical-level combat but that does not translate into even operational-level competence never mind strategic-level planning. Experience firing a rifle =/= experience handling logistics for an invasion, for example.

>>33411814
He never claimed to be a good one, though, and repeatedly told Lincoln and the brass of the union army that he was unfit for command. They gave it to him anyway.

>>33412430
By the very same logic a Bonaparte can make strategic/operational/tactical blunders once or twice that tank the war effort. Not an argument.

>>33412647
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

What he did to Ridgeway in Korea was simultaneously awful and the greatest decision Mac ever made.

>>33412755
Didn't hitler perfectly predicted how the Brits would react during the Channel Dash of 1942?

>>33412647
Hey, he was pretty brilliant as a PR man

>mfw MacArthur was the Marines before the Marines were the Marines

>>33413034
Honestly I've got no idea on that one, you'd have to ask someone better informed on the specifics,
>>33412647
Yes, if memory serves he also shat all over the Australians despite them doing all the fucking work.

>>33412755
>thinks that going through the ardennes was something put together at the last minute or that the allies didn't know about it ever since before the first world war when the germans did exactly that
>implying the BEF and majority of French troops weren't in the north well past the maginot line

What is this revisionist history nonsense that the allies were somehow caught off guard that someone could go through the ardennes?

>>33413241
>>thinks that going through the ardennes was something put together at the last minute or that the allies didn't know about it ever since before the first world war when the germans did exactly that
In WW1 the invasion came through Belgium, not the Ardennes. This was the eventuality the allies planned for and indeed was the one they captured the plans for. Additionally the Ardennes were considered doubly impassible for armoured units which obviously was not a consideration in 1914 but was in 1939/1940.
>>implying the BEF and majority of French troops weren't in the north well past the maginot line
And planning for a conventional invasion of Belgium, not an attack through the Ardennes. Because Belgium was trying to play the 'we're neutral' game the Allied forces (BEF and French) were actually sitting on the border preparing to rush to help the Belgians when the 'inevitable' German invasion started. French incompetence and strict command hierarchy limiting low-level officers (the creativity of which the Prussian and later German model encouraged) prevented them redeploying in a timely manner.
>What is this revisionist history nonsense that the allies were somehow caught off guard that someone could go through the ardennes?
Read a fucking book and not /pol/. The Ardennes were considered impassible - particularly to armoured units - by not only the Allies but by the majority of high-level German officers also. It was a gamble, it paid off. Hitler was tangentially involved in approving that gamble - against the advice of many generals - because of personal biases not strategic inspiration.

>>33413326
>because of personal biases not strategic inspiration.
Also, again as I've already mentioned, because the original invasion plan was called off at the essentially the last minute due to the plans being compromised.
The invincible Wehrmacht losing only due to 'endless' Russian hordes is a Cold War propaganda myth and nothing more. Stop buying into it. Next you'll be telling me how the Tiger I was a game-changer.

>>33411806
Luigi "biggest employer at Steyr" Cadorna
Luigi "spaghetti butcher" Cadorna
Luigi "I can't believe it's not Russia" Cadorna
Luigi "meat grinder expert" Cadorna
Luigi "keeping the carabinieri very busy" Cadorna
Luigi "casket connoisseur" Cadorna

>>33412647
The nigga liberates the phillipines late into the war and then manages to do a decent land invasion at incheon (which he over extended from and left Marines unsupported to be BTFO) and gets remembered as a military genius.

>>33413326
>In WW1 the invasion came through Belgium, not the Ardennes.

Where do you think the Ardennes is?

>Additionally the Ardennes were considered doubly impassible for armoured units which obviously was not a consideration in 1914 but was in 1939/1940.

This is a myth, the Germans did it in WWI and he allies already had planned for it for WWII.

>prevented them redeploying in a timely manner.

Is this a fucking joke?

French and British forces were fighting in Belgium throughout May 1940.

Jesus Christ, this pants on head retarded History Channel tier 'history' is fucking atrocious.

>>33411819
>mfw you lost
>mfw I don't have a face smug enough

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Assad Dynsaty

>>33413326
>>33413369
>/pol/
>muh russian hordes

are you retarded?

>>33411819
Lee himself stated that the only reason he fought was because he was a southern man. He personally did not agree with the majority political stance of the Confederate States.

>>33413746
That and Scott responding to his request to sit out the war with "GTFO faggot I don't want any morally conflicted bitches in my army"

>>33411830
i'm not from the usa but it's blatand obivous yankees are the biggest cucks in the usa, specially wating up the shit up narrative of inbreeding southern people while shutting up like a bitch that the real inbreeding people in the usa seems to be a lot of black folks

>>33411819
And then Sherman takes the gloves off...

>>33413594
Needs an addendum of like "us funding:" then for israel put 6 billion shekels, and for syria put nothing