Are helicopters obsolete?

>>33399600

No, unless you want to replace their VTOL role with Zeppelins or heaven forbid Ospreys or something.

>>33399600
they fly and make shit go boom

what's obsolete about that?

>>33399600
Why mi 28 look like apache on steroids?

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>>33399660

more armor, also slavshit always looks brutal

>>33399600

never!

>>33399600
Tanks are obsolete
Grunts are obsolete
IFVs are obsolete
Airplanes are obsolete
Navy is obsolete
Legal Admin only final destination

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>>33399600
Hell no.

Why would the best type of CAS be obsolete

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pic related still makes jihadis shit their pants and I suspect will continue to do so for some time

>>33399823
They're big
They're slow
They're EXPENSIVE
>helicopter within a mile of any somewhat modern aa system
>boom
That's MILLIONS of pesos down the river

>>33399903
The thing is that, while vulnerable, modern attack helicopters can wreak fucking havok on enemy infantry and armor.

The key, like fucking everything in warfare, is information on enemy AA systems and finding out how to evade them, sneak up on them or being able to neutralize them in advance.

As for the economical aspect, sure they are fucking expensive, but given what can be done with machines like an Apache and the NOE type of attacks and fucking destruction they can bring to a fight. You use that sucker right, and you'll fuck up whatever you were intending to kill.

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>>33399903

not everybody has modern AA

if you're fighting someone with modern AA and you're letting your CAS fly around solo you're doing it wrong

that modern AA should be artillery'd or bombed to shit, way before helis show up to support a ground advance

they're also best at loitering and nowadays blow shit up from way further than a "mile"

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And how are you ever gonna send SAR teams anywhere? Capture local airports for extraction every time? That's some Tom Clancy shit, nigga

>>33399600
Non military here : Aren't they the best vehicules against infantry?

>>33399600
until you can show me a drone that does what your pic / apache can do for the same price point - no, ofcourse not.

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>>33399600
until we have star wars style gunships like pic related, no they arent obsolete

>>33399926
>modern attack helicopters can wreak fucking havok on enemy infantry and armor
so can artillery

>>33399969

yeah but artillery doesn't fly around

checkmate

>>33399977
>artillery doesn't fly
so?

>>33399961
>Non military here : Aren't they the best vehicules against infantry?

They are pretty good, but generally, attack helicopters are multi-purpose attack platforms. They have all sorts of different combat configurations to engage infantry, vehicles, and even AAA or enemy aircraft.

>>33399979
>it can't into mobility
>so????

>>33399985
it's cheap for what it can do.
and it is mobile.

>>33399600
If you're fighting against a real army and not goat herders, then yes.

>>33399985
the black plague doesnt even need a crew to reak havok on 2/3 of the civilized world

check mate????????????????????????????????????

>>33399995

I can't even see the goalposts anymore

>>33399836
Once an ivan straps the Arena counter measures on it, nothing will ever get in its way.
It will be banned by Geneva convention along with the thermobaric ordinance.

>>33399700
>also slavshit always looks brutal

you mean like it was made by caveman bashing metal panels with rock ?

>>33399993
No

>>33399600
No

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>>33399977
>artillery doesn't fly around
Or does it?

>>33402527
kek

>>33399600
>Send in something to destroy AA (read SEAD)
>Let attack helicopter wreck the shit out of everything else

Sounds like a good plan to me

>>33399600
Are ak47's and stoner rifle platforms obsolete?
Are 1911 or any pistol that isn't stricker fired obsolete?
Are frag grenades obsolete?
Are airplanes that use propellers obsolete?

Nothing can be obsolete unless you find some kind of ground breaking innovation like listed above.

>>33402480

What that is?

My favorite fucking vidya of all time says that a Hind-D can shoot down F-16s. Is there any truth to this claim?

>>33399836
explain

>>33404786
Kind of
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-CATCH

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>>33402480
>putting an APS system designed for tanks on a helicopter
wat

>>33404828
Hinds have been blowing insurgents into little bits since the Soviet-Afghan war, and will probably continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

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>>33399967

thats partially based on the hind

I want pic related though

>>33399988
>Cheap
A single modern artillery gun cost about half a million $USD
This can go up to several millions depending on the specifics.

Check out that deal :
http://defense-update.com/20120511_india_clearsm777_howitzers_aquisition.html

An attack helicopter might cost 10 to 30 millions $USD but :
- it can strike hundreds of kilometers away from its base in a very short time.
- it can be redeploy as needed very fast if ground position is compromised

>>33399600

You think of a better platform to hunt subs with.

>>33404875
> tanks on a helicopter

Ever heard of the flying tank thing?

Its time to put it in a new level...

Why can't the Apache and Cobra be replaced yet?

the cyclic on the apache has a selector switch for anti-air. back in the day they tested sidewinders on them. source: 64D pilot.

>>33405200
Because American procurement is fucking retarded, they can't buy a new vehicle without a 20 year long development program

>>33404904

>It can be taken down with one 12,7mm
>Vulnerable to several Igla missiles in more conventional warfare
>Even a Mig-21 would fuck it up, it doesn't matter if its a longbow.

Yeah... I think I will keep artillery, its not WW1 anyway so we don't need to shoot it all day to hit small targets and we are sure that it will always hit.

Also MLRS systems or BM-21 for "fuck everything in this sector" tactics, that I'm sure helicopter can't replicate as efficently as a constant rocket barrage.

>>33405233
Why not bring back the Comanche program?

>>33405242

That's all well and good for land-based missions, but for naval duties a helicopter destroyer is superior to a gun destroyer when it comes to submarine hunting, and arguably helicopters are more effective than cannons in the anti-ship role as well.

>>33404875
Why does my penis like Hinds so much?

>>33405200
were just getting the AH-64E. it is a new apache.

>>33399660
Form follows function.

>>33405262
the comanche program gave us alot of technologies other helicopters had implemented.

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>>33399967
>>33404896
no no no, this is the only replacement

F-35B will make attack helichopters obsolete

>>33402644

If we were to use the literal definition of the word, "obsolete," then the answer would be no to all of those. However I think obsolete is being used in a colloquial fashion here to mean, "dated in design," or "less effective," which would change the answer to yes for the first two.

>Are ak47's and stoner rifle platforms obsolete?
These are very old designs in a market filled with much newer, easier and more cost effective options but the nations that use them either can't, or don't want to spend the money to change because while long in the tooth they still shoot bullets at things which is their job.
>Are 1911 or any pistol that isn't stricker fired obsolete?
For anything but range use, yes. Striker fired handguns are objectively better as mass produced, cheap, defensive weapons.

>>33405262
They dont need to exist. The Comanche was basically a "stealthed" equivalent to the OH6 acting as the spotter for HK teams in a Fulda gap scenario. These days optics on gunships are better so you dont even bother with a spotter.

>>33405372
>THICC and curvy

>>33405505
Go and stay go

>>33399610
>with zeppelins

Why not? Flying fortresses are GOAT.

>>33405200
The AH-64E is brand fucking new, and adds a hell of a lot to the platform, there is no need for a new airframe. IIRC there are also some hot new improved engines and rotors on the cooker that are going to give it a big step in mobility in the next several years.
As for the Cobra, the USMC are cheapskates and hoping to get the bongs to pay for the navalisation of the Apache.

>>33405153
Bigger, deeper subs

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>>33405587
this guy gets it

>>33405372
Cause youre retarted

>>33405616
>Giant ball of flammable gas
>On a battlefield
Brilliant

>>33404856
jesus, I knew that our brass was wary of the Hind but I didn't realize they were shitting their pants over it.

>>33406201
>helium
>flammable
The 1930s called, they want their bad ideas back.

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>>33406201

>>33406252
Hydrogen?

also russian helicopters don't get dynamically balanced. I.E. its a bumpy ride.

>>33406367
No one uses that in airships today, because, you know, its quite dangerous.. Heck, the only reason the Germans ever used it were US export restrictions (the US has virtually all of the Helium reserves on earth).

>>33399903
>helicopter within a mile of any somewhat modern aa system
Why would you do that?

>>33406688
you are attacking Russians?

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>>33399600
Helicopters were obsolete 50 years ago.

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>>33405438
>lockheed actually studied something like this

>>33402527

Why dont these have a big set of ASM stuck on them?

>>33406698
Range of a hellfire is 8km, you can also fire it while exposing only the tiptop of the radar mast, in an even safer version of the 'pop up attack' that was dreamed up to protect agisnt MANPADS. From what I understand, you can even use a UAV to guide in the missile and expose none of the helicopter now.

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>>33405438
I swear whomever creates something like the Pelican would probably disappear, It's military capabilities would too much of a threat.

>>33406922
>Range of a hellfire is 8km,
which puts you well within range of TOR and PANTSIR

>you can also fire it while exposing only the tiptop of the radar mast, in an even safer version of the 'pop up attack' that was dreamed up to protect agisnt MANPADS
you'd still need to clear your cover to fire the missile, and even then god help you because the interceptor missiles have proximity fuzes which means even if you somehow managed to duck in time the missiles just have to close in on your last known position atop the chosen cover. Doubly so, when the vulnerable topside of the helo where your propulsion systems are located and of course the cockpit.

>you can even use a UAV to guide in the missile and expose none of the helicopter now
They'd still shoot down your UAV.

>>33406987
The Pelican is pure trash if you put an iota of thought into drag.

>>33406987
>huge target profile
>slow
>complex
>massive intakes in the front
Yeah the inventor would probably disappear into one of those fucking intakes and die. There isnt a single piece of worthwhile tech in any of the halo games.
>>33406922
Hellfires support Lock after launch so you can blind firethem and pass the control off to something else (Drone, ground operator, gps)

>>33402480

>2035
>Glorious Russian Empire has integrated APS onto their helicopters
>Puny American rebels trying to fight off Russian/Chinese invasion
>They try to use pathetic capitalist Javelin to destroy HIND Q
>Javelin top attack mode goes over HIND and begins decent
>Arena detects weakling missile and fires counter missile-missile DIRECTLY UP AND INTO THE MOTHER FUCKING ROTORS
>GOD DAMN IT ALEXEI! NOW WHAT DO WE DO?

>>33407271

It needs drag to decelerate when dropping through atmosphere.

>>33407381
And it needs as little of it as possible for leaving atmosphere and traveling pretty much anywhere on-world. Low drag flight profiles have to be built in. You can always turn the drag on when you need it by changing your angle of attack and other drag creating measures.

>>33407201
>>Range of a hellfire is 8km,
>which puts you well within range of TOR and PANTSIR
The Tor has a range of only 1500m at 10m altitude. I could not find any numbers for the Pantsir, but I don't expect dramatically better performance.

>you'd still need to clear your cover to fire the missile
Enter the AN/APG-78 Longbow Radar, and the associated AGM-114L hellfire variant, which do not require, or even desire, a straight line between the missile and the target, and instead prefers using a lofted trajectory. Also 1996 called and wanted its thunder back, since the system isn't even very new. Also worth noting that, nowadays, you don't even need to poke your radar mast over the tree tops if someone else can see the target, or you have a good enough guess on its position, as >>33407359 notes.

>They'd still shoot down your UAV.
The UAV is worth the trade (even several of them for most models), and it is guaranteed not to kill its crew going down, since they are safely back in the Guardian/FOB/Los Vegas. The same cannot be said for the SAM launcher.

>>33407945
>it is guaranteed not to kill its crew going down, since they are safely back in the Guardian/FOB/Los Vegas.
you realize that we're talking about the Russians, right? They'll just hack into the operators' laptops and delete their anime tiddy stashes. The resulting morale losses will inevitably cause decreased combat effectiveness.

>>33408018
Implying anime tiddies are remotely hard to come by.

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>you will never fly a hind, ever in your life.

>>33406341
Why do they have those ejector seat charges on the windows. Would they eject sideways?

>>33399700
The fuck is with the USAF 707 in the background

>>33408179
https://youtu.be/Ww8pjBYjlCY

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>>33408057
we're talking about top-quality, state-selected anime tiddies, anon. You can't just find ones this fine on Google, they're imported directly from Japan and are issued to military personnel only.

>>33408123
you won't with that attitude.

>tfw I know a retired Hip pilot
>we joke that he'll teach me how to fly once I get an old gunship
I really hope he's still around by the time I scrape together enough money to buy a heli, even if it's just a Mi-2.

>>33408179
Ejector seats on helicopters exist...

>>33405200
AH-1W's "cobras" are being replaced by AH-1Z's "Super Cobras".Whiskeys are supposed to be phased out of all line squadrons by 2019.Besides the overall improvement, super cobras have an 84% parts compatibility with UH-1Y's,which lessens logistical strain.

>>33408325
marine aviation is a fucking joke compared to army aviation specifically with attack helicopters. just looking at pure numbers alone.

>>33408373
Army has always been bigger and better funded.

>inb4 this turns into a why does the muhreen corps still exist then thread>>33408373

>>33408404
WHY DOES THE MUHREEN CORPS STILL EXIST THEN REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>33408433
I keked anon.

Witnessed.

>>33408404
all I'm saying is how many Cobras have actually done shit down range compared to apaches.

>>33399600
human piloted ones will be in the future but the concept of an airborne weapons platform with longer loiter time and better low altitude flexibility then fixed wing aircraft never will be

Yes, and so are tanks, warships and Infantry.

>>33408454
That's the thing.Whiskeys and it's predecessors have a pretty good track record.Believe it or not supercobras haven't been combat tested yet.We'll see how they do.

>>33399600
Nice bait thread.

>>33408538
Basically any aircraft/aircombat on thread on /k/ is a bait thread, as few, if anyone here, truly understand it.

This board would be so much better if the subject was banned entirely

>>33408583
I'm a 64D pilot suck my dick.

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>>33407359
>There isnt a single piece of worthwhile tech in any of the halo games.

Save for Slip-space drives, space elevators, MAC's, and Cold Fusion.

>>33407271
Yeah but its mostly used for operating in space.

>>33408716
Yes, to get troops and equipment onto the ground. Any real, Pelican like vehicle would be shaped around the demands of its atmospheric flight profile.

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>>33408624

>>33408278
Only on the Ka-50/52s

>>33404856
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-CATCH

J-CATCH is even more farcical than millennium 2000

>>33407362 kek

Helicopters are useful for CAS. Lots of it.
Air power is both effective and expensive. You do not want to fight without air superiority. Therefore we have SEAD planes to fuck up enemy SAMs. Then ground forces can move in and designate targets for air strikes and mop up any survivors.

>>33406637
In modern times, any nation with nuclear reactors can produce Helium...

So Germany still can't.

>>33405438
What always gets me is something like that could actually work. Not the fat fucking brick part but the way it flys and stays aloft. Flap on some missile pods and machine gun mounts, you got a gunship. Slap on a metal box with folding seats, you got a transport.

I wonder why no one seems to have ever experimented with it....

>>33408624

Serious question, is there a personality type thats more suited to flying choppers for the military? I've alwaays wondered.

>>33399600
drones, we just drone mother fuckers now

so yes

>>33404856
>JCATCH

another reason why air combat should be banned on this board. People who believe the 'results' of the dumbest and worst thought out exercises in history, that in no way have ever been backed up by reality

>>33399600
Against sabdbox
>no
Against real country with SAM capabilities
>ehh maybe probably

>>33410315
What if motherfuckers have ECM?

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>>33410153
Germany has nuclear reactors, imbecile.

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>>33399600
No, they are great to get rid of African invaders

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-39302560

https://archive.fo/6tSi5

>>33408695
>2552
>standard issued rifle in 7.62x51
I mean, I can't imagine what kind of tech we'll be using five centuries from now but this always makes me chuckle.

>>33410719
Pretty sure Syria isn't in Africa

>>33402480
Holy shit this
IDF already has aps light enough to comfortably sit in a light ifv
I'm sure it can be done. By the way, does the exist an aps that can counter a tank shell?

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>>33410719

>Shoes perfectly match track suit

Fashionably slav

>>33410849
Do you sincerely think refugees come exclusively from Syria? There's like 5 Eritreans alone in my language class.

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>>33405438
I think that you meant this one.

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>>33405438

L O L

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>>33407945
>The Tor has a range of only 1500m at 10m altitude.
Lol. Do you even rockets bro?

>I could not find any numbers for the Pantsir, but I don't expect dramatically better performa
yeah, right

>Enter the AN/APG-78 Longbow Radar, and the associated AGM-114L hellfire variant, which do not require, or even desire, a straight line between the missile and the target, and instead prefers using a lofted trajectory. Also 1996 called and wanted its thunder back, since the system isn't even very new.
The Hellfire missiles are stowed under the wings which are located - shock, horror, lower than the mast. Depending on how close you are to the cover, the inherent tilt of the Hellfire launcher as well as the helo may not be enough to clear it. The closer you are to the object you are using as cover/concelameant the lesser the dead ground immediately in front for your sensors.

>Also worth noting that, nowadays, you don't even need to poke your radar mast over the tree tops if someone else can see the target, or you have a good enough guess on its position, as >>33407359 notes.
Oh cool, because rotating blades are just about one of the most conspicuous signatures out there. As I've said, the interceptor missile doesn't even have to get a direct LOS to destroy targets hiding under cover with proximity fuzes.

>The UAV is worth the trade (even several of them for most models), and it is guaranteed not to kill its crew going down
UAVs cost several times what SHORAD rounds do and are comparable to the cost of much larger ones instead. Russian SHORAD missiles are extremely cheap command guided missiles, not repurposed AA missiles with Semi or Active seekers.

>>33410153
???
You are thinking fusion and no they can't
Helium comes as a byproduct of natural gas extraction

>>33407424
Dont most pelicans only go from space to land, not vice versa? I thought they mostly landed on cararriers that were also on land to leave the surface.

also, id imagine given how diffrent planets have thicker/thinner atmospheres they could pull it off when they do have to go from surface to space by themselves.

>>33411661
Pelican and most of every design in Halo was inspired by Aliens.

>>33412208
Pelicans have enough thrust to leave atmospheres, they do it all the time. And UNSC carriers are twice the size of heavy cruisers, good luck getting those badboys in atmosphere.

>>33399600
No, you will forever need an aircraft that can just hover in one spot looking for something to kill.
No airplane will ever be able to that as well.

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>>33407945
>The UAV is worth the trade
The UAV costs equal or more than an entire Pantsir with ammunition, missiles and radar. That is assuming extensive ECM environment will even let you put your UAVs into air.

>>33410287
no, there is a huge variety of people. from former spec ops, to civilians, to mechanics. there are personality differnces between lift and attack aircraft. basically lift are fags, are attack are allegedly type A personalities, but in real life its a spread.

>>33416571
and attack**

>>33399600
Here helicopter Pilot with bell407 experience.

how the fuck do you think you can get a Wounded out of a field as quickly as possible ? with Bike?
how do you make a pretty much the best kind of Reconnaissance per air? Obsolete? no
Expensive and painful to keep up with their maintenance ? yup.

>>33399969
>hi my name is anon and I don't understand the basic concept of combined arms warfare

>>33399600
How can something, that gets a 30mm cannon off the ground, ever be obsolete?

>>33406582
I know this is true for old Mi-8s and probably for Mi-24s as well, but do you have any source indicating any of the new helos (Mi-8AMTSH, Mi-35M, Ka-52 etc) don't have it? That would be pretty surprising

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>>33399600
Nope. They'll stay for a long time.
The helicopters that don't have threat detection/SAM counter measures will soon be obsolete. Since MANPADs are going to be on the market for useful idiots.

>>33416691
>how the fuck do you think you can get a Wounded out of a field as quickly as possible ? with Bike?
Gavins
>how do you make a pretty much the best kind of Reconnaissance per air? Obsolete? no
Drones
>Expensive and painful to keep up with their maintenance ? yup.
Ospreys

>>33410287
It's a known fact that all Kiowa pilots are completely crazy

>>33399961

Go back to /v you underagebanned

>>33417942
>Since MANPADs are going to be on the market for useful idiots.

IR missiles are a threat to even the most high tech helicopter, there is no RWR type warning for them

>>33419368
Actually, we have passive UV sensors like MAWS that can detect an incoming missile based on its exhaust plume.

>>33406781
What is KC- 130 harvest hawk?

They are certainly not something a small country should invest in.

>>33419463
Until the active countermeasures are better than dumping a ton of flares and doing weak ass 2G maneuvers that won't help much. The missile is still going to reach you in a few seconds.

>>33419463
>by this time the warhead is about 20ft from the engine

>>33415658
You could lose 4 Gray Eagles, and still come out ~3 million USD ahead on materiel cost alone killing a single Pantsir, even assuming the Pantsir's Crew all survive, unharmed.

>>33411927
What is this, a Graph for Ants?

>>33421706
MQ-1C is 21.3 mil as of 2013, Pantsir is 13-14mil for export models, so nah, not really.

>>33421771
welp I cant read across a straight line, honorable sudoku for me.

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>>33411452
Naw man, Skyranger is where its at.