Graduated gunsmith school yesterday

>>33346878
Mauser-like action?

>>33346878
Going to gunsmith school in the fall. You got any tips?

Will use this trip to answer

nice feet

>>33346889
Mauser Standard-Modell

>>33346891
Which one?
As for tips, plan projects ahead and order parts ahead of time, so that when you get to them, you don't have to wait for parts and whatnot to be able to work.

>>33346915
Montgomery Community College

>>33346923
Montco PA?

>>33346896
Thanks. Figured it should be in /k/ format for this thread.

>>33346923
Ok. I went to Pennsylvania Gunsmith School.

>>33346878
Looks nice anon, how does it shoot?

>>33346975
Haven't had a chance to sight it in and see yet. Only rounds I've put through it so far are test fires to make sure the chamber is safe and the stock handles the recoil.

Good job with the handwork. But did you have to make it so BLING?

>>33346878
Got any machinery in your home shop?

>>33347013
What do you mean BLING?
If you're talking about the stock, that's how the tree grew. The tiger striping is naturally in the wood.

>>33347041
Unfortunately not yet. First I need to find a job in the field, and then I can start saving for my own machines.

>>33346992
>Haven't had a chance to sight it in and see yet. Only rounds I've put through it so far are test fires to make sure the chamber is safe and the stock handles the recoil.

I presume this was a school project?
How can they grade a gun without seeing if it's actually accurate and doesn't constantly lose zero?

>>33347045

In that case, what kind of tree is it? It looks outlandish to me but if it's made from local wood types I could see the point. What kind of terrain would you be using it in?

>>33346947
I'm going to PGS next March, what was the experience like for you? Worth it?

>>33346878
Looks as shit as your carpet, you dirty fucking hillbilly.

>>33346878
How much was tuition? How long was the course? What plans do you have for your career in gunsmithing?

>>33346941
no Troy NC.

>>33346923
Had a friend who went there. Good shit man, good luck finding a job.

>>33347061
Yes, school project. They grade the handiwork. So inletting, stock shaping, finishing, barreling, etc.
Presumably, it should be an accurate rifle if the chamber, inletting, and crown are all good, which they are.

>>33347066
The stock is myrtle. It's a tree that grows in Oregon.
Maple also commonly has that pattern.
Walnut can have it, but it's more common in lighter woods.

>>33347068
I thought it was worth it. The instructors are helpful and know what they're talking about. You'll learn a lot.

>>33347070
Thanks.

>>33346947
Is Pappy still teaching woodworking or has George taken over 2nd semester.

>>33347086
Tuition was ~30 grand for a 16 month program. Education ain't cheap.
As for future plans, I plan on going back home to my gf and finding a job in that area.
I'd like to have my own shop in the future, but school kinda wiped out my bank account, so that's not feasible right now.

>>33347109
Thanks.

>>33347145
When I was in second, it was a guy named Rich, assisted by Chris. Rich had to leave for reasons, and now Gary and Chris teach second.
I'm not sure who Pappy and George are.

>>33347164
Pappy was an old short instructor who there for years. In my last semester they brought in George who graduated and went to work for Ballard Arms. He came back to possibly take over woodworking but it seems like he went back to Ballard after I graduated in 2010.
Is Jim Smith still there?

>>33347211
Jim is still there and teaching machining, sight mounting, and chambering.
Zach teaches welding, heat treatment, reloading, and grades the repairs in 4th.
Rob teaches bluing.
4th semester doesn't really have an instructor right now. Basically, bluing/metal finishing gets graded by Rob, barrel work/chambering by Jim, and woodwork by Gary.

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>>33346915
>Mauser Standard-Modell

>>33346878
Gun is 8/10. Looks a little homo. It's not like your feet are bad, but I could do without feet in a gun pick.

>>33347240
Sounds like they hired more instructors.
Good to hear Gary and Jim are still teaching.
I wish I could go back and listen to Gary's lectures again.

>>33347258
Actually I took a second look. You're one of those genetic inferiors where the second toe is longer than the big toe. Rifle is now 7/10.

>>33347256
I bought it as an action. I didn't tear one apart to build this.

That being said, my time at PGS has desensitized me to the destruction of milsurp. I personally haven't modified any, but I saw a guy deactivate a Gew 88 by welding the firing pin and welding a block into the chamber.

>>33347258
>>33347273
How attractive my feet are affects the quality of my gun? kek.

>>33347270
Gary's lectures are a good time, even if they tend to be 30% instruction, and 70% him going off on tangents.

>>33346878
How much would one of these cost, and who would be able to make it?
https://youtu.be/LkW1Fsaxj-Y

>>33347275
>I bought it as an action. I didn't tear one apart to build this.
OK, we're cool.

>I saw a guy deactivate a Gew 88 by welding the firing pin and welding a block into the chamber.
Friend of mine is a gunsmith and he took an SS depot Gew.98-to-Kar.98k rebuild and stripped it just for the matching action.

>>33347289
I guessing you heard him tell the story of the runaway M60 in the training exercise.

>>33347289
Of course. You look like you're clean though. So congrats, I'll bump you up to 7.5.

>>33347295
The barrel you would probably have to have specially made, due to the rifling. The rest of it doesn't look like it's any type of crazy machining, so it would definitely be doable by any machinist, and most gunsmiths.
After the action gets made, it would need to be heat treated, which is a whole different trade. They brushed up on it in school, but it's a science unto itself.
After everything, you'd be looking at a few grand, easy. Most of that cost is machine hours.

>>33347302
Dang. Poor gun was probably in great condition if it was just sitting in a depot.

>>33347307
That was a good one.

>>33347327
Thanks.

>>33347273
>You're one of those genetic inferiors where the second toe is longer than the big toe
What?

>>33346878
That rifle makes me want to puke my guts out. That dirty carpet, those malnourished under developed appendages... eh, at least you're not a nigger

>>33347832
Yea, it could be a custom hi-point.

>>33346878
Do you have autism?

>>33347295
I just listened to Ian for the first time and I can't stand that faggoty sugary voice he has. That scrawny shit is unbearable to listen.

>>33347864
I post on a Tibetan leather work channel. You figure it out.

>>33347802
Look at his second toe. It's longer. Are you a fucking retarded person.

It means he's genetically inferior, but somehow smarter than you.

>>33346878
Looks really nice anon. What caliber is it and what optics were you thinking?

>>33347930
Caliber is .25-06. For optics, I have a Vortex Razor HD LH that will be going on it.

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>>33347258

>>33347958
if you think /k/ is bad, you should see ar15.com

Bump for the slight possibility of a decent thread on /k/

Could you give a basic rundown of PGS, like what you liked and disliked? I'm looking for a career after the military and I'm pretty much decided on either going into law enforcement or going to PGS because I love guns and it would be awesome to have them incorporated like that into my career.

>>33349432
I liked the fact that it course is almost entirely hands on. There's a little bit of lecture and instruction, but for the most part, you are working on guns at school.

Some things I didn't like are that they don't have enough machines for the amount of students they have, and they tend to over emphasize stockwork, when even custom gun shops use cnc machined stocks that they then just fit. Unless you're doing something crazy with a stock, you're never going to have to start with a raw blank like they have you do. I'm glad they teach it that way in second semester, but I think its a waste of time in fourth semester.

>>33347865
>all my speakers have to be gruff manly men
lol k

Enjoy all that wasted time and money.

With any luck you should be able to land a cushy job installing picatinny accessories for $10 per hour within a few years.

>>33350145
By what I've seen, i can expect more than 10/hr. By no means will i be wealthy, but still.

>>33346878
Thinking about doing gunsmithing. What kind of experience and skills should i have beforehand? Do they start at square one, or do they expect you to have a certain background before enrolling?

>>33351233
They start at square one. They expect you to have no knowledge. So any prior experience will benefit you, but it's not necessary.

>>33346878
took gunsmithing at Piedmont community college. It was a fucking scam, the asshole in charge was making it unnecessary hard just to make as many people fail as possible and make them retake the class.

fuck that guy.

>>33351439
Well that's good to know. Do they go over repairing a firearm? Or just putting one together? How much is focused on assembling a firearm from acquired parts, and how much focus is on actually making parts?

>>33351460
What type of assignments?

>>33351460
Damn. That's fucked.

>>33351474
First semester is bluing. You completely disassemble the gun to blue and they also have you write an order of operations for each gun you refinish to get you to think about how everything works together.

Second semester is all woodwork. You make a one piece and two two piece stocks.

Third is general machining. You mostly are just making tools at that time.

In fourth, you make 2 guns, as well as having to perform various repairs on firearms. So it's a pretty well rounded course.

>>33346878
Can you receive post-graduate training to become a machinist, or would you basically have to start from scratch?

>>33351542
That sounds like a shit ton of fun. Are there continuation courses for learning other gunsmithing skills?

>>33347923
Says the guy who most likely can't build a rifle this nice.

>>33351552
>>33351583
The school doesn't offer anything post graduate. So if you went to a machining course, you'd probably have to start over, unless you find someone to apprentice under.

>>33346878
Is there any point to the red cap at the front of the stock? A used rifle of mine has the same deal, and I was trying to figure out a reason.

>>33351717
Aesthetics. That's all.

>>33351753
I thought it was there because it stands up to wear better than wood would

>>33347923
Holy fuck you're a fucking moron, I don't even want to know what you were trying to say anymore. It definitely wasn't anything worthwhile.

>>33347993
Feet in the picture is a meme on every gun forum

>>33347858
Kek

>>33351717
It's not a cap, it's just lacquer. What's on your rifle is likely a ferrule intended to prevent the stock from cracking.

>>33351820
Actually, it is a different wood. The stock is myrtle, and the tip and grip caps are padauk.

>>33351624
I don't have to build rifles I buy them, and with normal toes.

being a gun smith is pretty cool. The pay blows though I hear.

>>33349533
Thanks for the info. Good luck in finding a career

>>33346878

>gross fucking carpet
>gross fucking toes
>misproportioned stock
>tasteless stock accents

Hope there's still time to learn how to drive a truck before you die of diabetes.

>>33352948
Considering i don't even have diabetes, I'd say i probably have time.

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>>33346878
my associate informed me that by remington 700 5R barrel has a lifespan that is super long. Question 1: how many rounds do they last before groups open up?
He said that the throat might be stretched out after 5000ish rounds and that a re-chambering might tighten the groups back up. Does that sound right?
Question 3: how often should bore be cleaned / with what products and tools?

>>33353069
5000 rounds sounds about right for the life of your average barrel. Just an interesting tid bit: a bullet is only in the barrel for ~1/1000 of a second. So with 5000 rounds being average barrel life, a barrel only lives through ~5 seconds total of use.

As for question 2, it has been shown that most barrel wear is at the throat, and once that is shot out, provided the barrel is thick enough, (and long enough for legal reasons) you could cut the chamber and throat off, cut a new shank and new chamber, and the barrel should perform like an almost new barrel. Tiis probably won't work on most contoured barrels, as the barrel thickness just isn't there after the original chamber.

For question 3, if you're shooting old corrosive ammo or black powder, clean after you're done shooting. Other than that, you really don't need to clean after every range trip. Every thousand rounds should suffice, unless you have a malfunction.
As for tools, a polymer coated one piece cleaning rod is best, as this minimizes the risk of the rod damaging the rifling. If there is significant fouling built up in the bore, you're going to want to run a bore brush down the barrel with solvent to break it loose. It may be a good idea to let this sit in there for 5-10 minutes to let the solvent work. After that, start running patches thru, starting with one wet with solvent. After that, run dry patches til they come out clean. I usually run another solvent patch then to see if that's everything. If that comes out dirty, let it sit for another 5-10 min and run dry patches til clean.

As for products, a polymer coated one piece cleaning rod, a brass brush, a brass jag, cloth patches, and solvent. Brand is mainly your preference.

>>33353272
Is a brass rod actually able to damage rifling just by light contact? I figured it wouldn't do anything as long as you aren't being a moron and dragging it against the barrel walls.

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Enjoy your joke of a degree and sub $40K job opportunities.

>I'm also a graduate of a gunsmithing college program.

>>33353403
Yes, a brass rod can. It's more a concern with the segmented ones, since the gaps between the segments can catch the rifling and cause damage. This is easily minimized/negated with a muzzle guide.
As you said tho, if you're not dragging it against the barrel walls, it shouldn't make a difference. You could honestly use a steel rod then, as it wouldn't be making contact. Using a polymer coated rod is more a precaution than anything else. A worthwhile one, in my opinion.

>>33353461
I still want to know how the fuck people manage to bend gas tubes without collapsing them. Same way brake lines are done?

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>>33353461
>those gas tubes

>>33353461
I heard of a job in Oregon that was starting at like $22/hr. Granted that's anecdotal and not even close to the norm, but still.

On an unrelated note, what are things like your picture classified as? Each receiver, and thus each firearm only fires one bullet per trigger pull, but you get 3 rounds total per trigger pull. So is it legally a machine gun or semi auto?

>>33353519
You should know this, volley fire is legal.

>>33353519
I work under an 07/02. We get bored and abuse our license for moderate levels of humor.

All three are MG lowers, note the auto sear pin.

Trigger is pulled in middle, middle fires and cycles bottom.

Bottom cycles and slam fires, cycles top

Top slam fires and cycles mid.

Rinse, repeat.

>>33353587
I figured top and bottom slam fired and center had the trigger. I didn't look too closely and didn't notice the auto sear holes.

Sounds like a fun gig tho.

Alright, I'm turning in for the night. If the thread is still up tomorrow, I'll continue.

It's been fun.

>>33347941
>Mauser action
>He chooses 25-06
>Not 6.5x55
Kys

>>33346891

If you're going to GS school in the fall, I suggest taking machinist classes at your local tech college now...

Signed,

A 50 year old smithy.

>>33346878

Maple stock. Not what I would have chosen, but not bad.

Where's the checkering? Rock maple should be able to hold at least 18-20 lpi depending on the tightness of the grain...

Next time you use maple, try fuming it with ammonia in a cabinet first... makes the grain really pop.

>>33353272
so I SHOULD get it rechambered...

cool. thanks!

>>33353496
Filling them with sand prevents kinking. Having a proper tool like a brake line bender makes it nearly impossible to fuck up.

>>33354418
I was going to go 6.5 Swede, but the instructors were trying to get me to do 6.5 creedmore instead. I wanted a long action cartridge, so i went .25-06 instead.

>>33354470
Sound advice

>>33354528
It's myrtle. It's softer than maple and a bit softer than walnut. Not sure how well it would hold checkering. Plus I'm not yet good at checkering.

>>33346878
OP, in your opinion, is it the design of the mosin that makes it so clunky/unrefined, or the manufacturing techniques? Could a gunsmith manufacture one that would be as smooth/accurate as a Mauser, or is the design just inferior?

Also, I saw a project out there of a (essentially) bolt action SKS, (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/07/10/1moa-sks/) assuming I gathered the parts, what would I expect to be charged if I asked a gunsmith to assemble this monster?

>>33356869
In my collection, my mosin is actually smoother than my vz. 24. It was made in 1931, so being pre war, it is probably better quality.
Comparing mosin to Mauser, I'd imagine a mosin made to better tolerances could rival a Mauser. Tho i think the Mauser is still a stronger and better action overall.

As for that SKS, he says the cost in parts is $500. If you were paying someone to build that for you, you'd probably be adding at least 1 grand, if not more for the labor. And that's a low estimate. Custom guns aren't cheap.

What's the average pay for a gunsmith anyway?

>>33357891
By what I've heard, $15-17/he starting.

>>33346878
Is there a way you can make rifling? Without one of those nifty quarter million barrel turning punches?

I only have an elementary grasp on machining, but I'm interested to know if there is a way to make effective rifling from a standard lathe or something.

>>33357909
lol i make 15/hr full time, at a grocery store. No schooling. But at least gunsmith is more fun/interesting.

>>33357950
That's a helluva grocery store anon, lol, you make a better wage than me as a welder/fabricator by fifty cents!

>>33357980
Yeah, but if only Miami wasn't so goddamn overpriced, it'd feel like a good wage.

>>33358014
Ah, that would be relevant.

>>33357940
Look into button rifling. It's how they did it back in the day.

>>33347149
>30 Grand
You could be half way to a engineering degree with that kind of money.

>>33357909
So is 70 bucks for fitting and tuning a 1911 extractor highway robbery?

>>33347149
>30 grand

Why not just go to a 4 year university at that point?

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>>33347958
No.
>>33358162
also no.

>>33358175
Because trades are what is in demand right now.

>>33358162
Not at all.

>>33357940
All you need is a hacksaw a small flat spring some steel rod longer than the barrel you want to make some pvc and some 2x4s.

>>33358186
Right but 4 year universities can teach you a trade and teach it well. I dont know, $30k for a 16 month course seems insane to me. If you had fun and want to make this your career it'll be worth for you though, I guess.

>>33358184
That's for the ATF threads

>>33357909
I supplied the new extractor btw

>>33358175

Eh, Trades like machining/welding and electrician work is super in demand. The more "craft" type trades not so much. If i had the time I definitely would have taken a gunsmithing course for personal pleasure though; it sounds pretty rad.

>>33358211
That was kinda the idea for me. And i feel they did a pretty good job at teaching gunsmithing.

The price does seem kinda high, I'll admit.

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>>33358220
thats generally any thread unless things have changed in the last year.

Question: Are there any courses in community colleges or in universities that offer gunsmithing or something similar as an extracurricular course?

>>33358227
You're paying him to hand fit it. It takes a bit of time, so that's a fair price.

>>33358243
>unless things have changed last year
If you've been around long enough, its either posting your foot with a firearm or two, or posting it with your booze and tobacco.

>>33358230
Machining and welding are used in gunsmithing. If all else fails, i could probably easily jump ships to one of those.

>>33358245
I've heard of a few. They generally are introductory courses tho.

>>33346878
Graduating the tsjc gunsmithing program in fall. Fantastic program. Been around since the 40's and still going good. Finishing a Mauser this spring and building a suppressor build on a 700 action.

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>>33358262
ok

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>>33358269
whatd you learn in school you couldnt have learned on your own?
Ever build an ak with a roofing hammer?

>>33358245

start off with some kind of machine set up class. Any decent sized CC will have an intro to machine shop offering

>>33358298
Still attempting to create a show piece Damascus AK receiver

>>33358334
would have to be milled....gonna be difficult

>>33358277
Nice.

>>33358298
A number of tips and tricks.
>Build AK with roofing hammer
Wot. That sounds rather unadvisable.

>>33358365
>A number of tips and tricks.
doesnt seem worth 30gs to me why not just apprentice someone?
it worked great actually just made foor some ugly rivets

>>33347149
Goddamn their prices have gonna up A LOT since I looked into them.

>>33356846

Myrtle.. well, no shit. Color me embarrassed.

If it's on the soft side, stick with fairly coarse checkering.

If you want to git gud at checkering, hit up an existing smithy for pieces/parts.

We always have jacked-up rifle stocks laying around for raw repair stock. Having a readily-available supply of patch material pays off.

See if you can beg some odd shaped bits from your local smithy. The weirder the better.

And forget HSS checkering tools - they go dull, especially if you're using them a lot or hit a piece of wood with a lot of silicates in it... just chews up high speed steel..

Go with the carbide checkering tools. They last much, much longer and just laugh at hard woods.

For laying out your patterns, find a throwaway set of cheap blinds that are made of aluminum. NOT plastic. Cut a few pieces from it - maybe 6" to 10" long, give or take. I have a drawer full.

The aluminum blind slats will flex easily, but keep their straightness. You use these to lay out your master lines on curved bits...

Other useful items:

>book of checkering patterns
>Book: checkering and carving of gunstocks (amazon)
>old school transfer paper (think - the inky pages between multiple official forms)
>tracing paper
>magnifying goggles and one of those swivel, light up magnifiers on an arm...

If you find interesting patterns on rifles you are working on, make sure to get a rubbing of the patterns. Any art supply store like Michael's will carry what you need to get a good, high quality rubbing...

Putting the patterns in a book on your counter for clients to look through will pay off. Actually having examples of your checkering (remember those salvaged bits?) to look at will pay off more...

And practice... and more practice... and more practice... it is a perishable skill, and one you have to keep after.

>>33358365
Wut, how are you a gunsmith on /k/ and have never heard boris?

http://boris.build/

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>>33358427
wait the shovel ak guy used a roofing hammer too?
I just used it because i couldnt find a 5lb sledge that day lol

>>33350145
Sure if he is retarded and decided to work at dicks instead of taking full advantage of the business education and ffl

>>33358361
The plan is to forge our own flat of Damascus from steel 7.62 casings and bend it. Won't take any recoil so it should be fine to bend a flat instead of milling

>>33357891

My shop rate is $80 an hour.

Btw, you cannot shop rate a custom rifle - nobody would be able to afford it.
You can only bid the job and if it comes under, you win. It comes in over, you lose.

Which is why I don't do custom rifles all that much.

>>33358453
love to see it if you can pull it off

>>33358459
If all goes well we'll be quenching it in Boborovs best vodka and using common household tools for furniture

Good luck op, I myself just got into the machinist industry and while after a few years I plan on getti g into gunsmithing.

>>33358385
This covers a wider range of things in a shorter period of time than an apprenticeship.

>>33358414
Thanks. I'll have to look into that.
I saved all the cutoff pieces from my stocks. I could start with those.

>>33358476
>quenching it in Boborovs best vodka
>quenching in vodka
wear a fire suit and film it
>>33358493
cool....now if only i had money

>>33346878
why did you make the woodwork into a penis?

>>33358480
Good luck to you too. With a background in machining, you'll probably find the switch to gunsmithing pretty easy.

>>33358519
spotted the finn

>>33358519
To double as a dildo. Duh. What, have you never fucked your gun before?

>>33358493

Cutoffs are a good start.

- Get one of those small 360 degree swivel vices with rubber jaws to clamp your work in while you work it.
- Also a stock vice. You can user-make one for cheap out of scraps if you want.
- The "correction tool" (Brownells calls it a "jointer") - which is a very long checkering tool - WILL pay off bigly when you fuck shit up. And you will. Same as me and every other smithy.
- Have at least two (the one your using, and the one to replace the one you're using when it goes dull)...

You don't have to buy from Brownells - bless their hearts.
If you know who makes what you're looking for, you can contact them directly and bypass the markup that Brownell's tacks on... saves you some coin that you pass on to your customers.

>>33358635
Yea those swivel vices seem really nice.
And I want to get a jointer. The basic kit i have doesn't have one.

>>33346895
>someone using the tripcode for its actual purpose
What is this blaspheme??

>>33358737
A rare occurrence indeed.

>>33358676

Last thing for now:

About 20 years ago, I'm at this gun show in Denver. The Denver shows are always huge with really, really nice stuff.

In the corner is this old guy. German. He was hand-carving a rifle stock with a hunting scene. Really talented guy.

I'm talking to him smithy to smithy and complement him on his work. I griped about checkering being so.. intense.. and said wished I had his talent.

He says to me: "What I am doing is easy. I mess up the deer's foot? I can just cover that up with something else and hide it. The customer won't know and will assume it's supposed to be that way...

"But you... what you are doing is geometric carving. You mess up, people see that from a mile away. Very had to fix. What you do is much, much more difficult than what I do... I wish I had your talent."

It's all about perspective...

>>33358762
Interesting way of looking at it. I'll have to remember that.