If someone says he is going to punch/stab/kill you right now

i am going to stab you

Is this person actively trying to hurt you? Does it look like they're about to?

If the answer is no, then no.

You're allowed to run away. Otherwise words are just words. Until your life is physically threatened - and only for as long as it is - would you be allowed to defend yourself physically, and even then most countries/states will say that your first move should be to run away.

>>33343635

If it looks like they would try to hurt me(by throwing a punch) and I act preemptive by landing the first punch and there is no witness aside me who is in the right?

>>33343667
The one still breathing.

>>33343625
Context is important. Self defense is justified if it's considered reasonable to the average person. If a dude in a wheelchair with severe cerebral palsy says "I'm going to stab you!" you can't just whip out your ccw and magdump on him. If a tweaker with a knife in his hand says it, that's a different story.

The formula I always here is there needs to be ability, oppurtunity, and intent.

>>33343658
>You're allowed to run away.

what if this is in a state that's not duty to retreat

>>33343658

A threat of violence is no joke and in most countries it is a crime. First of you are not going to have a recording of said threat if it was spoken verbally and if it seems like the threat was an immediate threat like"I am going to punch you right now" shouldn't there be a possibility to act preemptive?

>>33343702

just because the law says you're allowed to stand your ground doesn't mean you have to. unless you're some kind of weirdo who just wishes someone would try to punch him so you could shoot them.

>>33343625
Im never gonna die in no ghetto

>>33343625
depends. Your friend can or co worker could say this. If you kill them, it's murder. If some loon says it and you kill them on the spot, it's murder. If someone say this then pulls a weapon or advances in a way that you fear they you may not be able to survive and you kill them, it's justified. The words don't really mean anything. It's actions, but actions + intention make a better case. I

>>33343702
duty to retreat doesn't mean you can kill at will. There needs to be a deadly threat and words are not a deadly threat on there own. Someone retreating saying they will kill you, and you pull your gun out and kill them is murder.

>>33343687
>ability, oppurtunity, and intent.

The first two could be rolled up into "capability".

So those are your two variables: capability and intent.

A toddler says they are going to kill you and means it: intent, no capability

A really mean looking big guy is open carrying: capability, no intent

A tweaker says "give me your wallet or I'm going to stab you": capability and intent. No, you don't have to actually wait until you're being stabbed.

>>33343801
nice explanation anon. Haven't heard it broken down in that way but I can't think of a situation when using that as a fundamental would not apply at this moment.

Depends on the situation. I'd go as far as to let them know I'm armed and will shoot if they try to get physical.

>>33343625
What difference does it make pussy. If a real man made a move on your sissy ass you couldn't defend yourself anyway. You have spent you life sitting on your ass in front of a keyboard and have zero upper body strength and no defensive skills.

Do you really expect us to believe you have any chance to defend yourself. You may be the single biggest fagot to ever post on 4chan. Congratulations

Hypothetical scenario:You are in a back alley and some annoying stalker dude who made clear before he really doesn't like you says he is going to hurt and torture you on the spot are you allowed to throw the first punch even though you might not fully know if he follows through with his threat?

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>>33343879
>Hypothetical scenario:You are in a back alley and some annoying stalker dude who made clear before he really doesn't like you says he is going to hurt and torture you on the spot
Do what you have done every other day of your sad life and suck his cock for him you pussy. I mean come on you know you are gonna suck that cock anyway just offer your throat up before you get a beating bitch.

>>33343625
thats for the court to decide, enjoy your new boyfriend

>>33343879
The question you should be asking yourself in such a scenario is not simply "am I justified in using force" but "is using force actually worth it?"

Real world scenarios are not /k/ fantasies. If you injure or kill another person, you will be facing years worth of investigations, unwelcome media scrutiny, possible criminal trials, and lawsuits, even if your use of force is fairly clear-cut and justified. In addition to this are the monetary costs. A lawyer--and you will need one no matter what--is going to cost you thousands of dollars. Any weapons that you used to defend yourself will end up in a police evidence locker, and you are unlikely to ever be able to get it back even if you're cleared of any wrongdoing.

Any time you consider using force in a situation, think about all of the above and ask yourself if it's really worth the trouble as opposed to trying to deescalate the situation through other means.

>But what if I don't have the time to think about all of the above?

That's a textbook example of when you should absolutely use force, because your life or the lives of your loved ones are in immediate peril.

>>33343625

The standard in my US state is "An imminent threat of grievous bodily harm against your person", with the addition of applying the same language to others.

Man pulls a knife, I don't have to wait for him to swing it to defend myself.
Guy shouts from across the room empty handed? Not so much.

The magic words are "I was afraid for my life."; and any semi-reasonable scenario you can apply that statement will work: Personally, I can't afford getting into a fight because of pre-existing injury, so I have a slightly better self-defense case if I wound or kill a person who came at me.

You're always going to go to court by the way: Statisically 0 Self-Defense cases are cut and dry. You may get out early when the evidence starts piling on in your favor, but you always play the lawyer game.

>>33343741
W I S H A N I G G A W O U L D
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>>33343870

>>33343658
what if you're in your own home? and what if the attacker is your blackout drunk roommate?

>>33343625
Only if he tries

>>33343625
>are you allowed to act preemptive
a credible threat is a threat, so yes

>>33343870
i'm a total couch potato lately (used to do martial arts) but if i have to fight i'm good for 2-3 mins.

there is no way a street fight gonna last that long. fitness is overrated outside of competitions. weapons technique knowledge cold blood and caution will serve you better.

my country has some retarded self defense laws.
if you put more than 5 bullets into the dude who's trying to kill you, or if you use hollow points it's considered a murder and you get taken away
fuckin retarded

>>33346505
so if you put a single full jacket round through the back of his head it's fine?

>>33343625
Can you convince a cop, or DA, or jury that you feared for your life? Think about that. Your word means shit. You need unimpeachable witnesses, or better, clear video.

If the assailant has money or connections, you're fucked regardless.

>>33343625
Yep. I'll take Castle Doctrine for $500 Alex. Look it up, I don't teach idiots for free

>>33347935
LMAO. Innocent until proven guilty. Jesus Christ, California or New York? Or just a cuckold?

>>33343625
Faggots say shit like this all the time. No.

>>33347969
Reality. Your feelz about your rights, dignity or personal importance to the universe equal squat. The game has rules, and if you choose to ignore them you will be crushed and forgotten.

The only thing your weapon guarantees you is the chance to die on your feet.

>>33348254
Reality... It just called.

It's called Castle Doctrine.if anyone breaks into your house, you can shoot them. It's called life.

Maybe you live in a cuck State where you're supposed to retreat first. Over 30 States have Castle Doctrine.

>>33348286
You're making a lot of assumptions based on OP's retarded OP

>If someone says he is going to punch/stab/kill you right now are you allowed to act preemptive in self defense.

Prisons are full of men with clean consciences who thought they were doing the right thing at the time.

>>33343667
He would be in the right for defending himself from you.

>>33343734
yes, menacing and terroristic threats are crimes. littering and jaywalking are also crimes, it doesn't mean you have aright to assault people for doing them. until you have reasonable cause to think you are under threat you have a duty to retreat and deescalate

>>33343667

Been in this situation. Police and Lawyers will clear you, cause he started and you were fast enough to stop it. Any one who says dif is truly a retard who has not been in the situation or had legal advice from a paid lawyer, not from a bunch of faggots like on 4chan.

>>33343625
I would think it would be well within your rights to pull out your weapon and tell them to fuck off.

>>33343625

Sure you're allowed to. It's your life, do what you want. You'll be going to prison though.