Scout Rifles

Kys

>>33325095
You're not wrong.

1-X optics negated the need for LER optics, in my opinion. Otherwise, nothing wrong with a 7.62/7/6.5mm carbine with a sling.

I want to put a 2-7 on a lever action .308 for this exact purpose.

I never understood the need for clip loading and mag loading. I get that it's nifty but can't you just load the mags with the clips directly if that's what you wanted?

>33325095

Why damage the rifle when you can put the rail/scope on the rear sight? I did exactly that with a Yugo mauser, and I can reverse it in a few seconds, all while causing zero damage to the rifle.

>>33325095
>beautiful pieces of history.

>millions of bolt guns churned out with little care as to quality
>beautiful pieces of history

They're not cutting up Purdeys.

>>33325281
I am referring to Enfields, K31/K11's and Mausers I see cut up all the time by Joe-Bob and Earl in the shed being sold on GB, Armslist, and at gun shows. It also upsets me when I see a rare-ish Mosin get the same treatment as well.

>>33325281
Also under that logic its like taking an ancient Roman gladius and removing the old grips and replacing them with green neon ones, painting the blade bright red, and having "zombay slaya 9000" engraved on it. It was a piece of history that got ruined by some fuck head and his delusional fantasy that will disappear in a few years.

The compact and lightweight carbine will never die. The scout concept was just one mans opinion on how to set one up in the early 80's.

>>33325258
Until recently there were no detachable magazines commonly available for bolt actions. They also present a complication in what should be a simple rifle. Being able to be clip fed meant that you wouldn't be fucked if a bunch of bad hombres were causing trouble on your ranch.

>>33325281
>>millions of bolt guns churned out with little care as to quality
>>beautiful pieces of history

Quality has nothing to do with historicity.

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>>33325243
>he adjusts his variable power scope when a buffalo bursts out of the bush at 20 yards
i don't think you know what a scout is for. read this book.

>>33325356
does this still happen? pretty fucking tragic when you can just buy a ruger GSR.

>>33325513
it's not a "carbine," and, in discussion he specifically notes that the word carbine means different things to different people, so the scout is a _rifle_ and nothing else.

>>33325848

> brush hunting
> dangerous game

Why am I adjusting it off of its lowest setting again?

>golly gee whiz I want a lightweight accurate rifle
>Oh wait those are available in semi auto now

I would kill for a four pound bolt gun with good irons in 7.62x39. If you made it look like an old fighting rifle, even better.

>>33326170

If you're willing to take a 5.5lbs rifle, CZ 527. Load it up with Hornady SST and go to work.

>>33325513
You're actually pretty right here. I hunt with a scout rifle and EER scope. Personally I appreciate the total lack of batteries and 3x magnification. That said I've often though about putting something more modern on it. I don't think I'd put anything in the conventional spot though because I value being able top off my magazine without taking it out. It's just a personal preference.
I'd say that a scout rifle set up in Cooper's suggested style is still one of the best options out there for a jack of all trades gun. There are other options that are more conventional, the EER scope still has small advantages and disadvantages that leave it a niche in the world of guns.

The 5lb AR shits all over this concept.

>>33327403
No, you don't understand the concept. A 5 lb AR would make a really shit woods gun my dude. Fine if you're intending to fight humans in the woods, shit if you're not.

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>>33327436
I still have that fucking name on. I have caught autism desu. Pity me.

>>33327436
Provide valid reasoning for this claim.

>>33327403
For use against bear, moose, elk? Think critically anon. Some people use rifles against more than cardboard cutouts.

>>33327489
could it be cartrigde
t.not him

>>33327526
Supersonic 300blk, donezo.
If you're an autist and demand 7.62x51 then I've got some bad news for you.

>>33327546
lol enjoy your .30-30 equivalent

>>33327575
Are you saying that as a negative?
Because that isn't a negative.

We are talking about real world usable ranch guns, not autist cardboard plinkers. I would call .308 is a minimum, preferring .30-06, 7mm-08, or 6.5x55.

I agree that anyone butchering an old rifle to make one should be beaten and shunned, but what about something built from the ground up as a Scout Rifle?

>>33327526
Shot placement is more important than caliber after a certain point.

The AR also allows for more and faster follow up shots.

>>33327489
Cartridge power, accoutrements (a bore snake is basically all you need to field clean it), robustness (insert fudd meme here if you must), and magazine compactness just to name a few.

>>33327678
I'm an AR guy, but there's a reason dangerous game rifles tend to be controlled feed bolt actions in full sized rifle cartridges anon.
If you really intend to shoot a prey animal multiple times as plan A you're not hunting ethically IMO, and for dangerous game assuming that you'll have the opportunity to make follow up shots is a dangerous assumption.

>>33327635
Do you know how many mausers there are floating around out there anon? I wouldn't chop up an antique if it had interesting markings or was otherwise special, but not all surplus guns are precious.

>>33327679
300blk is roughly equivalent to 30-30 and 7.62x39, both of which have been taking down large game all across america and Africa respectively for decades. Notwithstanding that 5.56 is enough on its own.

Boresnake fits in the grip.

They're more robust than your wooden bolt gun.

Flush mags exist, but 30 rounders are not obtrusive whatsoever.

You are a fuddfuck.

>>33327749
>They're more robust than your wooden bolt gun.
I don't understand why fans of a platform need so badly to insist that it's BEST for all situations.
It's like you get your self worth caught up in it, and it makes you look silly to firearms owners with a wider breadth of experience.

>>33327799
It's not the best. It's the best compromise.

>>33327816
Assuming you're the guy from >>33327749
You literally suggested that an ar15 was as robust as a mauser. I'm sorry anon, but that's ridiculous. AR's are lovely guns, and I'd rather take one into a modern battlefield than a bolt action. However they are NOT as robust as bolt actions.

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>mfw I have an SKS with a tacticool stock
>mfw I got it that way
>mfw it's my main rifle because it's the one I've shot the most
>mfw no plans to change the stock back to wood furniture
>mfw its existence triggers autists.

>>33327896
Yeah I wouldn't change it. I prefer the classic look desu, but if it's your main gun there's just more important considerations than style.
I think a lot of the anons who hate on people for modding cheap surplus either don't remember what it's like to be strapped for cash or are purely collectors.

>>33325848
If it's not a carbine then why does he specifically call for an 18-20" barrel in an era where literally no other boltgun had a shorter than 24" barrel?

If it's not a carbine then why did he specifically call for cutting the stock down an inch to both shorten the OAL even further and aid in rapid shouldering?

>>33327874
Enjoy your stock rotting. But let's be real here, you're not going to break either one unless your throw it off a cliff so this is a moot point at best.

>>33327997
If short handy rifles are carbines, then it's a carbine. I don't think there's much point getting hung up on terms here desu.

>>33327526
7.62x40WT. .450 bushmaster. .458 SOCOM. .50beo. .460S&W mag. .500S&W mag. .30-.243WSSM (wildcat). 8mm WSSM (wildcat).

Or stepping up to a 5.5lb AR10 you have the whole spectrum of WSM and RCM loads, 7mm RSAUM, .45 Raptor, 9mm Whisper, and a whole host of other true-magnum large bore dangerous game calibers.

>>33328031
My whole point is the entire Jeff Cooper™ Scout Rifle™ is a giant clusterfuck of people getting hung up on terms.

Remember that he continually revised his idea of scout rifle culminating in Thunder Ranch in the mid-90's with a Model 7 wearing a PTG DBM and 10-round AICS mags and wearing a 2.5-10x variable in its traditional place on a 20MOA solid picatinny rail. Which he then marketed commercially as the Jeff Cooper™ Thunder Ranch™ Scout Rifle™ through Gunsite and Thunder Ranch.

>>33328025
Never even heard of a stock rotting in normal use. Maybe if you left it under the floor boards for a prolonged period of time. That's what wood finish is for anon.

>>33328070
I really hope the irony isn't lost on you here.

>>33328063
Yeah, and I'll grant you that today a "scout rifle" doesn't even NEED to have a "scout scope". Any number of modern optical devices can fulfill the role.

>>33328077
You're reaching anon. You claimed that a bolt action was no more robust than an AR and then when challenged brought up the fact that wood can rot.
That's assuming you're the same guy ofc.

>>33328063
>>33328102
I guess what I'm getting at is if you don't get bogged down in terms then you're left with a useful concept. A lightweight, handy, practical, rifle in a full sized cartridge for hunting/emergency defense at 0-300 yards is a good idea.

>>33328102
My idea of a modern scout rifle would be a "mountain rifle" IE an ultra lightweight, 20" barreled boltgun with light 2-piece bases or something like a DNZ 1-piece mount with a DBM and 5-round mags wearing something like a 2-10x SFP scope with capped turrets and chambered in one of the modern 6.5mm offerings like 6.5cm or 6.5x47 (with, of course, 6mm offerings of 6mm CM, 6XC, or plain ol' .243win for those never planning on needing to kill anything larger than deer or people).

Something that's designed to be carried all day through shitty terrain, durable enough to be neglected, and accurate and powerful enough for hunting to 400m or minute of man to 700m.

I don't particularly see a need for iron sights on a modern "scout" rifle, modern optics have come far enough that the odds of breakage or fogging to the point of unusability are next to nothing and they're additional snag points.

>>33328152
That role has been fulfilled for 40 years with semi-auto .308 offerings from a dozen different companies. IIRC Cooper originally called for the rifle to weigh no more than 8lbs unloaded but with optic, something even the FAL can achieve.

>>33328129
For all practical purposes they aren't, because neither will see circumstances that put their upper limit to the test.

Unless you want to argue irrelevancies, in which case go for it.

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>>33326196
This. The 550 is great too especially the full stock

>>33328185
>Something that's designed to be carried all day through shitty terrain, durable enough to be neglected, and accurate and powerful enough for hunting to 400m or minute of man to 700m
I'm with you untill you get to the 400m thing. In my neck of the wood ranges beyond 200 yards are rare, so I tend to think more in terms of brush guns. That's handy in terms of emergency defense too, because predator attacks happen at close range.

>>33328253
I have areas near me like that too. A scoped, modest-power full size round-chambered rifle isn't really the best option for that.

I think this is a good illustration that try as you might, there really isn't a way to achieve the "one gun does everything well enough" thing.

While you could mitigate this with something like QD rings or mounts to swap between, say, that 2.5-10x and a 1-4x, fact of the matter is I wouldn't trust even the hotter 6.5mm's like .26 Nosler or 6.5x284 against dangerous predators (bears and such) but the "good" dangerous game calibers (or appropriate heavy-bullet loads in things like .308) have rainbow trajectories making 400m shots difficult if not impossible.

I also really don't enjoy shooting really light rifles chambered in large calibers. I've got a .460mag Katahdin barrel sitting in the safe off my Encore because it was downright unpleasant to shoot since the Encore is so light. And this leads to not practicing which leads to you fucking up working the action or outright missing under stress.

>>33327896
>my posting of a smug Chinese drawing makes my statements irrefutable.

you, the post.

But in all seriousness it is still capable of being turned back into its original form. Unless you were a fucking dumbass who either tap and drilled it or JB welded a sight onto it.

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>>33328225
Sako mannlicher is better

>>33328317
It better be considering it's 3x the price.

>>33328205
I shiggy diggy a good AR as well, but you have a pretty odd definition of irrelevant. A bolt good mauser action will be more robust than any AR I've come across and that is totally relevant to this discussion. The scout rifle concept was always kind of a meme, it was the "innawoods" gun before the internet. As such, robustness is totally relevant to this conversation. It's slightly autistic, but I don't think anyone is going to argue with you that your wildcat AR is not an acceptable hunting rifle. This doesn't make it a "better compromise" for a woods gun.
We haven't even touched on the subject of reliability yet, which is complicated but a well made bolt action would come out on top of.

>>33328185
>.308
>18"
>irons
>lightweight composite stock
>CRF (M70, Kimber, ect)
>biathlon/pack sling
>3-9 or 2.5-10x scope

If you could mill an angled clip slot to just clear the scope tube and keep a mixed mag I would be in heaven.

>>33328225

Is the Bavarian stock still free floated like the other 550s?

>>33328309
Yeah, you know I've actually become very fond of the both eyes open school of thought after getting used to EER scopes. I'd say that a fixed power EER scope is indeed good enough for use inside of 300 yards. That includes quick use inside of 50 yards too.
>"good" dangerous game calibers (or appropriate heavy-bullet loads in things like .308) have rainbow trajectories making 400m shots difficult if not impossible.
Well you're talking to someone who's actually quite fond of the idea of the .358 win, so I think our approaches to things might be so radically different that we're talking past each other. I'll absolutely grant you that a scout rifle makes a poor weapon for the ranges you're talking about though.

>>33328371
>muh robustness!
You keep spouting that word like it means something. Let me reiterate for the nth time, both are more ~robust~ than you will ever require them to be.

Please tell me how unreliable ARs are and how bolt actions are therefore the correct choice in all situations (spoiler for you an AR that's unreliable becomes a bolt gun :^) )

>>33325927
Why are you doing it with a .30? That's not even legal for buffalo in a bunch of places.

>>33328031
I was always under the impression that a carbine was a shortened version of an existing rifle.

If this is the or a correct usage of the term, then Cooper is very definitely calling for a carbine.

>>33328397
Delete the irons and top it with a quality low or mid power variable scope in a solid mount or quality set of rings and you're on something I can agree with.

Although personally I'd prefer a single-stack detachable mag to a clip loading slot simply because mags keep the rounds cleaner and less damaged while being carried, and you're not going to be carrying enough rounds either way for the weight of the mags to be important.
>mixed mag
why.jpg
That just absolutely guarantees a miss because you don't have the same POI one round to the next.

>>33328603
fixed*

>>33328538

That was a different anons complaint with my 20" .308 with a 2-10x on top. I live in N.A., so closest I get to buffalo is bison.

I've never hunted it or moose, but plenty of Canucks take moose every year with .308, so within 200yards, I assume .308 would drop a bison as well.

>>33328453
> and how bolt actions are therefore the correct choice in all situations
You're the one who thinks his raifu is bestu friend. Reliability is a complicated subject, and as such I'm not sure that the tenor of this conversation is suited to it, I'll give it a go though if you like. As an experiment, I'd invite you to ask an experienced shooter how many stovepipes they have witnessed in AR's. Note that this doesn't make them bad, revolvers never stovepipe and yet I prefer semis, it's just one bulletpoint.
Ask someone experienced with bolt actions how many stovepipes they've seen in (insert reputable bolt action here), I suspect you'll find that the number is much smaller. It's true that any gun can malfunction, but I think you'll agree that frequency and the severity of the conditions that induced them are relevant to this discussion, yes?

>>33325614
This is true.
Vk98s are shitty looking last ditch k98s. But damn are they worth a lot.

>>33327546
>demand .308
It's kinda one of the requirements of the original concept, picked for it being commonplace as all hell. The only remotely viable alternatives are other common (former) military rounds - type .30-06, .45-70, 6,5x55, 7.62x54R, 7.62x39 and the likes. One might argue for the .223 caliber and how suitable it is, but I'm not taking that debate. .300 BLK is a lot of things, but sadly it's not exactly common... Yet.
One might make a case of reloading, but just as well as you can reload .300 BLK, you can load subsonic .308.

>>33328632
Just get an FAL with a variable scope. Done.

>>33328398
It is, something the sako Bavarian stock is not

>>33328453
>>33328711
In fact if you don't mind I'll write a little about where I think your thinking goes wrong. Gonna be kind of stream of consciousness here so forgive my autism.
Look I think we may be starting from different places here. The truth is that an AR10 or something like it wouldn't be an awful choice for a woods gun, it just wouldn't do what a scout rifle does as well as say the GSR.
Now here's my next point. Since we all agree that when choosing a rifle for a given use compromises must be made, we should ask what we are compromising and to what ends. In other words we should figure out exactly what our priorities are.
For a general purpose woods gun I'd suggest that defense against dangerous game is a priority. OK, so what should we be emphasizing and de-emphasizing in such a gun? Well one doesn't tend to get into prolonged gunfights with bears for example. They tend to charge and crush, so I'd say we should be emphasizing the first few shots for that purpose. OK so the rifle type that focuses most effectively on the first few shots would be a double barrel safari gun or something, not my beloved bolt action, but there is some utility in having more rounds on tap. So OK then, one step down in power and one step up in capacity would leave us with some sort of Alaskan brush gun, Like a .45_70 Marlin or something.

>>33329017
continued.
But the scout rifle isn't just bear medicine, it's a lightweight survival tool, so it might also need to be used to hunt or fight in a wilderness setting. Of course we aren't going to be LARPing as snipers with it either, so just how much range do we want? Personally I think being able to hit a precise target out to 200 yards or so and at least make someone at 600 yards really nervous is a good benchmark, but on this we can disagree reasonably. So ok it'd be nice if it flew a bit straighter than a 45-70. Well considering our priorities then something in the neighborhood of the .308 is starting to look pretty good. It's powerful enough and has a good enough trajectory for the kinds of ranges we're talking about.
OK, so if those are our priorities, what sort of gun can we find that meets them? I put it to you that a good bolt action is more likely to embody them than an AR.
For the record, this does not mean that anyone wandering around the woods with an AR chambered in a suitable cartridge is wrong. They can be perfectly acceptable, but there are better choices out there for what a scout rifle does.

REAL answer is guns to men are like shoes to women and they want every variety of them no matter how few they use.

Then they have an excuse to get autistic about their choices.

"Scout"? Wigga please. Semi-autos are SUFFICIENTLY accurate and get the job done nicely. Kalashnikovs take more big game than any other rifle, but those lads are in the game to kill shit and make money, not autistically jizz over their IMAGINARY exploits with toys.

Getting micropsychorectal about minutae is fun but never take it seriously. Totally fine for shiposting though.

>>33329025
>what a scout rifle does
If you want utmost reliability then just get an AK. They are perfectly accurate within 200m. If I'm being charged by a bear then I want semi-auto. In fact, outside of long range precision shooting, I can't imagine ever not wanting a semi-auto. You are messing around in the margins if you think an AK's unreliability outweighs the utility of semi-auto.

>>33325095
The problem is there is a new category of fudd, the mall ninja. They don't see that a gun is an investment, since all they have ever bought was an AR and there is little to no return if they try selling one. The want to take their grandpa's gun and make it modern or buy that old Mauser from the gun shop and improve it.

I hope these new "fudds" realise that these guns are not always cheap to feed and are the same quality as the bottom line brand new full size rifles.

And I keep seeing, there are millions of them arguement keep popping up. Yes there are, but every year, how many are destroyed by antigunners or by some fudd making a durr rifle or some new mall ninja making his gun taticool.

In the collectors market we are already seeing new people coming in, turned on by YouTube channels like forgotten weapons, c&rseanal, iv8888 and even tfbtv. Combine that with people shifting their gun budget from ARs/Asks, and there is starting to be a boom in the milsurp market again. So don't cut down or destroy that old beat up Peruvian Mauser, hold on to it for a year and then head to a gun show, chances are it will sell real quick for a pretty penny.

>>33329095
I'm afraid this is a meme. Kalashnikovs are great rifles, but not the most reliable gun in the world.

>>33329147
>a new category of fudd
We've known about 'bubba' for a while now, and yes, everything they touch turns to garbage.

'Mall ninjas' is something else completely. For one thing, they're mostly noguns, or they like Tapco and railz because it's "just as good" and "adds functionality" for vertical foregrips and IR lasers that they could never afford. They aren't the ones destroying collectibles, and they were never interested in granpa's gun in the first place.

AR's used to be more expensive, so people thought they were 'good.' Instead, now AK's are expensive so now they're 'good,' along with all the other milshit.

>>33329187
>>33329095
I do see where you're coming from of course, but I don't agree. A Marlin makes better bear medecine than an AK. What makes you think you'll see the bear coming 200 yards away and have time to plink as it charges across an open field. Seems more likely to me that it'll be on you suddenly, and you'd have to have very fast reflexes to get even one follow up shot.

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>>33329187
Are you kidding? They were designed from the ground up to be reliable, along with the 7.62x39 cartridge. Lucky for you I bookmarked these:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/10/29/6-reasons-ak-47-reliable-rifle-world-guide-kalashnikovs-magic-aspiring-gun-designers-part/

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/10/30/6-reasons-ak-47-reliable-rifle-world-guide-kalashnikovs-magic-aspiring-gun-designers-part-ii/

>>33328841

Great gun, but a couple of reasons why some people may prefer a bolt/lever action. Talking non-mil use of a general purpose rifle here.

1. Cost - FALs run 1000-1500, when a good bolt action goes for half that. 50-100% premium for a feature that a lot of guys don't need in a full power rifle.

2. Word of mouth is the FAL is a 3moa rifle. Assuming a 6" target, that's a 200y rifle. Depending on terrain, that may not cut it.

3. Weight. 18" FAL in traditional layout is about 8.5lbs before optic. Bolt actions come in 1-2lbs lighter than that, and depending on your recoil sensitivity and willingness to shoot .284/.260 bullets, 3lbs less.

>>33329252
>even one follow up shot.
Goodbye goalposts!

>>33329252
Elephant and rhino are fast too. Their record of outrunning nig poachers with beat AKs is still lousy.

>>33329319
>FALs run 1000-1500
Not if you build it yourself. But okay.
>that's a 200y rifle. Depending on terrain, that may not cut it.
More like 300-400, but if you want to reach beyond that distance, now we are into precision rifle territory. Anything <1moa is precision shooting.
>Weight.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and not call you a mall-ninja. Fair enough? If you are shooting large calibers you want the weight anyway.

There is no reason not to use a semi-auto. If you are having any malfunctions, there is something wrong with it (or the ammo or the magazines). If you want something bigger and more accurate, then get a bolt gun.

>>33329453
You literally don't want the weight.

>>33329319
>be manlet
>weak af
>get lured in by FAL memes
suffering

>>33329453
Bruv...

A 3moa rifle will not realistically hit a 6" target on first shot at 300 yards. Your round stands a good chance of being 1.5" outside that 6" target in any direction. This has nothing to do with the power or range of the cartridge. You will either miss an animal to the front or hit it in the stomach.

Also, the more time I spend walking around with a rifle, the more I understand why alpine hunters were willing to put up with the shitty recoil of a 5lbs rifle in 7mm-08/.308.

>>33329319
What I'm hearing is
>I want a cheap gun
>I want a sub-MOA gun
>I need to be able to take down a moose

Is that what a "scout rifle" is now? Because it sounds like a low-tier bolt action hunting rifle to me.

>>33329541

> It sounds like a low-tier bolt action hunting rifle to me.

Throw a low power optic that let's you shoot both eyes open and an extended mag in it, and pretty much yeah, I think Cooper would have been happy.

Low tier bolt actions have come a long damn way in the last decade.

>>33329570
>low power optic
Then what's the point in sub-MOA? Now they have 1-8x that are attainable if you know how to save.

>>33329526
>3moa
Get a scope so that your sights aren't on different receivers and better ammo so you won't have that problem. 600m is not too much to ask for an FAL. You will score hits more of the time.

>>33329636

Sorry, I got lazy. Should have put variable between 'low power' and 'optic'

Sub moa isn't even really needed either. A decent rifle that holds a 2moa group off a bag is fine out to 300y, which is a relatively long shot for majority of hunters barring alpine or bean field.

>>33329729

I'll defer to you on that one. I had heard the tilting bolt was the problem, but apparently there's more to it than that.

Regardless, 600m is asking a lot of any .308 rifle for hunting. Most 165gr soft points are already below 2000fps at 400y, and that's out of a 24" barrel. I don't want to chase an animal from that far out with a tiny blood trail.

>>33329747
>Sub moa isn't even really needed either
There are entry market bolt guns that will get you this. I'm guessing the shooter is the problem most of the time. I would still want semi-auto though, even if it's more expensive/less accurate.

>comparing a FAL to a scout rifle

A scout rifle isn't something you take during a Selous raid. It's something you take hunting or to check your cattle/sheep. It should be able to defend you from poachers or weed growers, not a full on zulu charge. We are talking a gun that weighs 2-4 pounds less because you are going to be carrying it 99% of the time.

>>33329847
For real. My father would not believe me when I told him a $400 Savage Axis could hold every round in a 1" circle these days.

He still spits every time he sees a composite stock though. Some things never change.

Is it wrong for me to want a cheap mossberg mvp scout just to dick around with in the woods and shoot at wild hogs?

Legit question, anybody own one?

>>33330040

>>>33325988

>>33328225
God, that is a sexy damn rifle in a sexy damn caliber and I wish they made them in Left Handed.

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>ive never held a scout rifle much less shot one but let me tell you why its shit

be quiet

>>33329323
what are you on about?

>>33328310

No, I know for a fact I could turn it back, but I just have no plans to ever fuck with it that way.

>>33329413
I know you're not suggesting that AK's make good rifles for rhinos. I know you can't possibly be that stupid. I know that you wouldn't possibly confuse the insane shit they get up to in Africa with anything that resembled a good idea.

>>33329453
>I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and not call you a mall-ninja. Fair enough? If you are shooting large calibers you want the weight anyway.
or you could, you know, not snivel about the recoil of a rifle you won't realistically be firing more than ten rounds out of at a time and drop all unnecessary weight on a rifle you're going to be carrying around.

>>33329413
It goes like this mate. You can kill an elephant with a .44 magnum. That does not make a redhawk a good elephant gun.

>>33328310

Luvia makes any argument irrefutable, best girl of all girls.

>>33329909
This is /k/ bro. Most peope on here are teens/eurotrash that literally can't imagine carrying a rifle for anything other than either war or canned hunts.

>>33330238
I've often daydreamed of turning an sks in a CA compliant carbine for when I go there. Don't listen to the idiots man. If you find it useful it's all good, not like an SKS is rare.

>>33325095
>From my perspective all it achieves is fudds ruining beautiful pieces of history.
It also gave us the M1A Scout Squad, which is the best version of the M14 platform.

I will never understand /k/'s hate for Cooper. I built a Scout Rifle for my senior project in high school a few years back, and fell in love with the concept. I took an almost beat to death Savage 110E in .270Win and cleaned up the stock, re-stained it, and coated it in tru-oil. I then had the barrel cut down to 18in and threaded, threw a comp on there, and acra-glassed an XS sight systems scout scope mount onto the barrel. Accompanied by a TC LEF pistol scope. Still my favorite gun to take deer hunting.

>>33330531
>I will never understand /k/'s hate for Cooper.
It's because most of the people on here haven't moved past the little black rifle phase of their weapons fetish. /k/ values how tactical a rifle is, not how useful it is in the real world because most of the people here fundamentally do not understand the role firearms fulfill during everyday use in the real world.

>>33330607
Well lets hope that /k/ can move past the hate for them and learn to love all guns equally.

>>33327575
Are you retarded? 30-30 isn't a bad cartridge in terms of power. It's outdated in that it's rimmed and without polymer tips is limited to flat nose. I sure as shit would not want to get shot by one and most wildlife won't appreciate it either.

>>33330690
I think his comment was based in the idea that a scout rifle should be more potent than that.

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>>33327366
have a ruger GSR 7.62, great rifle,got it for free as it was in a buddies house when it flooded, he claimed it on his insurance i think and told me i could take it,he thought it was ruined. its stainless,and the stock despite getting soaked was fine,cleaned the hell out of it linseed oiled the stock,and mounted a set of ar pop up buis on it. its my all around rifle,and stays in the ruck,and when i hit the woods with my pup ( which is every week) it goes with me. sure its not a combat weapon,but its not meant to be,just a light simple rifle that works.

>>33329285
Ah the autism.
No but seriously senpai you don't really think AKs are the most reliable gun in the world do you?
They're great and all but they are not #1 in that regard.

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>>33327711
this,ask anyone who has hunted hogs in heavy timber or brush,yo get 1 shot and you better make it count. sure if your hunting something from a distance or encounter something from a distance yeah you should have the time for a follow up,but most of the time IME when i jumped a hog or something that can do some damage,its always been close enough that all i got was a single shot to do the job,but on the otherside of the coin,if your an ar guy or semi-auto person,then by all means carry it,being comfortable in what you carry is important,just know your weapons limitations,and be aware of what it will and wont do. also,they are fun to shoot,sometimes its just fun to have something thats a little quirky,but also very functional,and a real joy to shoot. just my .02 though

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>>33328185
i keep an old ar optic mounted to a QD mount,mounted on rifle,sighted it in,and marked the place,took it off and put in my pack,i run iron most of the time,but if i need a scope i can mount one in seconds,and so far its held zero perfectly,just how i do mine,and its a good way to keep the profile down.

>>33331290
>if your an ar guy or semi-auto person,then by all means carry it,being comfortable in what you carry is important,just know your weapons limitations,and be aware of what it will and wont do.
IMO this statement is the mark of someone who knows what they're about. So many people on /k/ get their personal worth wrapped up in their fav firearm and can't recognize its limitations. You can make an otherwise totally inadequate firearm serve your purpose if you understand its inadequacy. On the other hand if you don't understand your limitations you can render an acceptable firearm worthless.
An ar15/AK isn't the worst thing out there for a woods gun, but comments like >>33329413 give me the impression that some people totally misunderstand reality.

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>>33328225
sweeeeeet very nice,also a favorite brush gun,i use a lot,but its in .45-70 so its a bit of an overkill,still great to carry

>>33331419
Could you not find a stock rear sight for it or do you prefer the ones you have on?

>>33330531
>scout rifle in .270 win
Ooooh. Now this would actually be interesting instead of yet another .308.

>>33329319
>2. Word of mouth is the FAL is a 3moa rifle. Assuming a 6" target, that's a 200y rifle.
Nobody can hit 6" target off hand at 200y.

>>33331481
came with an aftermarket rail,so it had a tiny peep sight in back,i had a set of pop up buis laying around,and put em on to see if they work,they do work great,plus if i put my qd scope on they fold down and are out they way

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>>33331264
>autism meme
So you have no idea what you're talking about? Alright then. I guess *all* common knowledge has no basis in reality. It's just a "meme," right asshole?
>they are not #1 in that regard
I'm not aware of another semi-auto with a more reliable design. And you have failed to provide one.

>>33331844
>I'm not aware of another semi-auto with a more reliable design. And you have failed to provide one.
Nigga this thread isn't about semiautos. It is very specifically not about semiautos. Why on earth would it be limited to semiautos?

>>33331919
some folks get angry when a thread is made about something other than,ar,ak,mil-surp,glock.easier to just ignore and leave them to their little happy place

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>>33331919
>Why on earth would it be limited to semiautos?
>being this retarded
Because the only reason anyone has given for NOT having a semi-auto is 400m+ precision shooting, and only half the thread can even agree with that (ignoring the idiot who said "y-you don't NEED more than ONE shot in an emergency"). The other half is underage and can't afford more than $1k for their do-it-all, one-and-only gun. And then some, I assume, just can't manage to carry that extra 3lbs on their daily 10mi trek into the mountains to tend to their sheep. In classic 4chan fashion, you retards need to be contrarian about everything, so you become neo-Fudd to counter-signal the omni-present AR-15.

>>33325414
Yep, one of the millions of ancient Roman Roman swords produced within the last hundred years which are commonly sold on the used market. Often in refurbished condition, and many having never been issued during wartime.

>>33332100
>other than,ar,ak,mil-surp,glock
Did you ever think there is a reason for that? Milsurp is thoroughly proven, and AR's are very affordable (AK's used to be, some still are). I never liked Glocks. There are a few reasons not to buy an AR-15
>fudd
>hipster
>already own one
>you want an AR-10
>you are poor
>you live in some made-up WROL/SHTF fantasy (even then you're retarded)

>>33328778
And yet Cooper specifically called for 7mm-08 in a time it was freshly adopted out of wildcat-dom and .243 for women or manlets as completely acceptable alternative calibers.

Which is...honestly kinda confusing since he also had a hardon for stripper clip guides and the only rifle of any form available in any of the short-action calibers that had them was the FR8, which has NEVER been a common or affordable piece of milsurp.

>>33329747
>300y
>relatively long shot outside of bean field or alpine
300 yards is considered in the "oh shit nigger why haven't you shot yet" range basically anywhere west of Missouri and east of the Pacific Crest. Which incorporates about 60% of all North American big game hunting and over 80% of all North American varmint hunting (due primarily to prairie dogs but also coyotes).

>>33329729
There's a big difference between combat accurate (you need to hit a man somewhere between dick and hair) and ethical hunting accurate (you need to hit a specific organ that's roughly the size of a snack plate).

The FAL is the former out to around 500m with quality ammo (IE, not surplus M80 ball). But it's pretty much limited to 200m and in for the latter even with an optic to marginalize aiming error.

Whether a "scout rifle" incorporates hunting as a valid role is up to you. To me it does.

>>33330040
Since the thread linked in >>33330061
is dead, I did at one point.

They're a niche rifle that fulfills that niche adequately enough, but they're crudely made. They're accurate (my MVP Varmint would throw 5 consecutive 55gr HSM blitzkings into a 3/4" group consistently at 100y) but they have reliability and durability concerns.

>>33330254
They're fine rifles for rhinos when you're in the back of a hilux with 11 of your best buds magdumping into it from 10 yards while it chases the truck.

7.62x39 has killed orders of magnitude more big African game than every other caliber combined. Mainly because more 7.62x39 has been shot at big African game than every other caliber combined by orders of magnitude, thanks to poachers and tribesniggers.

>>33331631
Shame that every branch you brace against or rock you rest upon spontaneously melts.

>>33326170
For five pounds you can get an Ares SCR.

>>33330531
Because he Laid Down The Law™ on what a scout rifle was and openly derided anybody who strayed even slightly from it and acted like he was the ultimate subject matter expert on it.

Then he proceeded to incrementally change it over the course of the next 20+ years and acted like all previous iterations were utter shit that he had no hand in.

Basically he was a giant douche with good ideas.

>>33331631
I can. Consistently, not every shot, but most of them.

t. silhouette shooter who trains specifically for this

>>33332120
Weight is another big one.

I can make a 4lb boltgun that's capable of delivering a bullet accurately to 700m with enough retained energy to expand a small selection of bonded softpoints. I can't do that with literally any semi, I'd have to cut the barrel too short.

>>33332265
FR8 isn't a short action though.

>>33332359
>60% of all North American big game hunting

Define big game. Are we including CXP-2 in that? There are a metric shit ton of stand hunters all over Texas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico that never shoot past 200y, so I'd hesitate to say 3/5 guys hunting whitetails/mule deer in those states take 300y+ shots on the regular.

>>33332416
That you have to add another half pound to in order for it to be even remotely shootable, because it comes with no sights at all.

>>33332476
Sorry, meant chambered in a short action caliber. Basically everything else would have to be rebarrelled, and while most will work without modifying the bolt head going from 8x57 or .30-06 to a .308-family caliber, you may have to shim the mags for reliable cycling and odds are good stripper clips won't work.

>>33332484
Whitetail, mule deer, antelope, elk, Shiras moose, blacktail deer, the 5 species of sheep and goats native to CONUS, plus all the exotic freeranges imported into Texas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico. And if you don't think that there's a ton of flat open land in Texas, Oklahoma and New Mexico that gets hunted heavily you're daft.
>the southeast has the beanfield rifle
>Texas has the Sendero
While it may not be 3/5ths of hunters in Texas, it is definitely 3/5ths of hunters in the West as a whole because it's 100% of hunters in Nebraska, Kansas, Colorado, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, etc.

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>muh scout rifle
So what is this, like for hunters who want to larp? Just get a SCAR 17S.

>>33332536
>10lbs loaded with optic
yeah nah.

>>33332527

> 100% of hunters in Nebraska, Kansas, Colorado, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, etc.[take 300+ yard shots on the regular].

I need to get out of the South West and learn to shoot with you guys. Few guys here even use a range finder, let alone know their elevation adjustments for anything past 200. Most guys just set their zero to 200y, or maybe MPBR, and climb a stand.

>>33332619
Well, it works for them.

I moved from the Midwest to the Southeast then to the West, every time was kinda culture shock on how people hunted and the tools that went in to it.

>>33325095
>ruining beautiful pieces of history
Do you get just as butthurt when people renovate a house built in the 40s or 60s?

>>33332120
>ignoring the idiot who said "y-you don't NEED more than ONE shot in an emergency
No one said this, your reading comprehension isn't very good. What was said is that presuming that you're going to have the opportunity to take advantage of the capacity of a little black rifle during a charge is foolish. Dangerous game rifles tend to place an emphasis on the first few shots for a reason, you cannot count on getting more than one shot.
Also I'm sorry senpai but if you think there's no reason to choose a bolt action in a full size caliber over a semiauto you're sorely mistaken.
An AK is the sort of thing that you could use to kill dangerous game if you had no better choice. This doesn't make it a good choice.
AKs are reliable for semiautos but I wouldn't say that makes them dangerous game guns.

>>33332230
Wait so you think people who like bolt actions over little black rifles are the ones with WROL fantasies?

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>>33332548
>10lbs
You'll make it brah.

>>33332431
So your basic problem with him is that he acted like an officer? No really, they are pretty much all like this.

>>33332536
Lol senpai.
You accuse people who want to hunt with a light bolt action of wanting to LARP, and then suggest they get a fucking SCAR?
SCARs are fantastic guns, but you need to think about what you just wrote here.

>>33332751
Pretty much, yeah.

>>33332722
>>33332731
That's just a hunting rifle, nerd.

>>33332823
Kind of? It's a hunting rifle made as useful for emergency defense as possible. Your point?
You don't think tactical rifles are more lethal or something do you?

>>33332781
>people who want to hunt with a light bolt action of wanting to LARP
Then why do you need a box mag? I'm not a rancher, but do you get into firefights with poachers regularly? Yet not regularly enough to want a semi-auto?

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>>33332722
>An AK is the sort of thing that you could use to kill dangerous game if you had no better choice. This doesn't make it a good choice.

Lol. What's dangerous game? T-rex? If you are talking predators who are very fast and will zigg-zack in between trees and shit before jumping you like bears then a 76239 AK is indeed THE PERFECT CHOICE!

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>>33332883
>Then why do you need a box mag?
Maybe because
>It's a hunting rifle made as useful for emergency defense as possible.
You should try to read better anon.

>>33332947
>If you are talking predators who are very fast and will zigg-zack in between trees and shit before jumping you like bears
You should try not to base your view of the world on video games quite so much.
I'm stealing that pic tho 10/10

>>33328185
>My idea of a modern scout rifle would be a "mountain rifle"...

In the era of 6.5 Creed and reliable AR-10s which make hitting accurately out to 600m as easy as hitting the same shit at 300m with 7.62x51 in days bygone I really don't see the point.

>>33332985
>You should try not to base your view of the world on video games quite so much.

You should try not to base your replies on lies so much. webms of this behaviour have been shared here ad nauseam.

>>33333025
Being able to do that in a sub-7lbs-loaded-with-optic rifle is the point.

>>33333025
You acoustic faggot he specifically mentions 6.5CM as the preferred caliber.

Or are you recommending carrying a 12+lb-empty, 24" bull barreled rifle around the mountains?

>>33333058
>You should try not to base your replies on lies so much.
What?

>>33326170
This and I want a fucking bayonet lug on it

>>33333063
Frankly my dude unless you enjoy arguing with idiots like I do I wouldn't bother trying to reason with them.

>>33333090
no, I'm absolutely content with an AK for all my defensive game killing needs. 30rds of bullets with twice the energy of 44mag sounds great.

>>33333116
>What?
the described zigg-zaggy behaviour is well documented and established bear behaviour. fuck off.

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>>33332863
>useful for emergency defense
This is your problem. First you say it's for hunting, then you say it's for defense. You REALLY need that extra five rounds of ammo, BUT semi-auto is WAY too heavy. It needs to be LIGHT because you're CARRYING it 99% of the time, BUT every shot HAS TO BE guaranteed 110% reliable 9000% of the time.

Just admit you're a Fudd who thinks you can't hunt widat durn salt raffle.

AR-10
>.308 for muh bears
>semi-auto for muh SHTF
>detachable mag
>reliable
>accurate
>light weight

If you're getting into a firefight or "emergency" with a bolt action you will be sorry. Otherwise all you have is a hunting rifle. Putting a box mag on it and calling it a "scout rifle" is fucking dumb, and people thought it was dumb 30 years ago too. kys

>>33333138
So like, do you play videogames or what? I have real difficulty imagining a game charge with an opportunity to shoot more than 5 rounds, and that's already ridiculous.

>>33325095
It's like the ultimate gun that no one really asked for. It would have been the best thing in the world circa world war 1. But for all the reasons Jeff lists for having one (can hunt and kill people and is light) I'd rather have a some sort of .308 battle rifle. Maybe if I was a rancher or something it would be good. If I really had to have just one bolt gun for everything though, (self defense, SHTF, hunting) and could only pick one I'd probably still want a Spanish Mauser in 7.62 over a scout rifle anyways

>>33328063
Can you break down these acronyms for me

>>33333159
>Just admit you're a Fudd who thinks you can't hunt widat durn salt raffle.
You got me senpai. I hate all my semiautos. Some times at night, I torture them.
But no really it's not super complex my dude, it's about what you choose to put emphasis on. A scout rifle is a lightweight survival rifle that can be pressed into defensive work. An AR10 is a battle rifle that can be pressed into survival use. If you don't see how these two things are different I'm frankly not sure I can explain it to you. It's like, one emphasizes rate of fire and the other emphasizes weight, robustness, and reliability.

>>33325848

Why are you in the African bush chasing dangerous game with a .308 and a silly scope setup

There are people that do this shit for a living, none of them use scout rifles.

>>33328317
Hahaha benis

>>33333166
>So like, do you play videogames or what?

No.

>I have real difficulty imagining a game charge with an opportunity to shoot more than 5 rounds, and that's already ridiculous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h14PveFwLeI

Your train of thought is "very special" mate. Nobody said you have to shoot the mag empty. I'm pretty sure no bear will need more than 3 AK bullets to die. The point is that you CAN shoot it 30 times if you needed to. As in because you were so scared out of your mind because that fucker snuck up on you, like they love to do sometimes, and you just evacuated your bowels all over your legs. Then, fearing for your ass meat, you just spray and pray shaking like a triggeres SJW tumblerina. Having an AK just takes into consideration that you may not be in the best position physically and mentally to aim and work a bolt. But ofc, such things don't apply to you....

>>33327366

Why do you think you can't top off your rifle with a standard scope mount? Most hunting rifles work this way. You can do it even if you get a one piece base.

>>33333214
PTG DBM=Pacific Tool and Gauge (a company) Detachable Mag Bottom Metal (conversion from blind floorplate or hinged floorplate to detachable box mag)

AICS=Accuracy International Chassis System. The mags are extremely high quality single-stack rifle mags available in everything from .223 through .50bmg and are actually caliber specific within an action length due to follower design (IE a .243 won't work as well as a .308 in a .308 AICS mag despite being a .308 that's been necked down without changing any body or shoulder geometry). Has extensive alternate vendors that may or may not be caliber specific and is a de-facto industry standard magazine for bolt action rifles with detachable magazines.

20MOA=20 minute of angle slanted scope base so you don't run out of vertical adjustment in your scope dialing elevation for extended range shots.

>>33327526

Not to shit on a good point and all, but nobody uses "scout cawncept" rifles for big game hunting or defense either.

survival rifle that can be pressed into defensive work.
No. Just no. You WANT semi-auto. This is 2017 dude. AR-10's are reliable for 1000's of rounds without maintenance.
>>33333228
>other emphasizes weight, robustness, and reliability.
An AR-10 accomplishes all these things in every practical sense. This isn't NASCAR dude.

>>33333249
Yeah I love that clip. Out of curiosity I counted though and counted 5 shots total, one of which was a warning, so arguably four. Thanks for making my point for me I guess?
I'm not sure you're hearing me though. The reason people who deal with dangerous game use such powerful rounds is largely because they want the best chance of stopping a charge with a single shot. Best to be able to follow up with more shots, but relying on the opportunity to shoot multiple times is not the wisest idea.

>>33333306
A lot of the dangerous game rifles used in Africa meet most of the requirements, with the biggest deviation being caliber since they're chambered in the classic magnum dangerous game calibers.

Hell a lot of them even still use LER optics.

>>33333322
Wasted dubs.
>why would you NEED an assault clip

>>33333306
Sure they do. The marlin guide guns with forward rails might not meet the strictest definition of what a scout is, but I'd say that's splitting hairs.

>>33325095
All you need is a pump action 12 gauge.

>>33333349
Are you even still trying? You posted a video to make a point, and it made mine. Is this weak retort all you can manage?

>>33333265
Czeched. Also thanks for not just insulting me for not knowing all of that

>>33333322
>Thanks for making my point for me I guess?

you should apply for a job with TyT, you are great at hearing only what you want to hear... the animal died with less than the specified number of shots. there was no point in shooting more.

>I'm not sure you're hearing me though. The reason people who deal with dangerous game use such powerful rounds is largely because they want the best chance of stopping a charge with a single shot.

ok

>Best to be able to follow up with more shots, but relying on the opportunity to shoot multiple times is not the wisest idea.

Nobody relies on anything. the 76239 has plenty energy to stop said animals with one shot, provided the shot placement is there which applies to even 2 bore stopping rifles. the point is, if the shot placement isn't there, for whatever reaons, you can correct that faster with an AK than you can with your bolt gun.

>>33333307
Sorry bro, but that's just not my experience. I've seen plenty of AR15s fail to feed, and the word on the grapevine is that AR10s tend to be less reliable than AR15s (this might be outdated). It's nothing personal, I prefer my AR for most things, but for woods guns I just prefer the boring reliability of a bolt action.

>>33333399
>and it made mine
no it didn't.

>>33333403
No worries, I'm .mil so I'm used to having to explain acronyms.

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>>33326196
it's my favorite rifle

>>33333399
>Are you even still trying?
I'm not the other guy, btw. I stopped trying the first time you moved the goal posts. I guess we're shooting elephants now. Just get "whatever works for you."

>>33333411
>you should apply for a job with TyT, you are great at hearing only what you want to hear
should I?
>the animal died with less than the specified number of shots. there was no point in shooting more.
Yes anon, that was my point. All the extra magazine capacity in the world would have been just so much added weight. That's because dangerous game attacks tend to be over very quickly. Stay with me now because I know this is hard for you, but if game attacks are over quickly one way or the other do you suppose that would support emphasizing the first shot or magazine capacity? So if we are emphasizing the first shot, would it be better to have a more powerful round or a less powerful one?

>>33333450
"moving the goal posts" is word thinking. I tried to explain as clearly as I could that it was about finding a balance between the power of dangerous game rifles and general utility. If you got lost along the way that's on you.

>>33333420
>AR15s fail to feed
That's usually a mag problem. Anyway, I told you to get an AK here >>33329285 But 2-3moa wasn't accurate enough for you so I said AR-10. Now you're saying it's not reliable enough. And of coarse a SCAR is too heavy... So have fun with your hunting rifle and dying when you get larped by poachers because 10lbs was too heavy.

>>33333468
you can try to be cute all day long. the 40sw in question isn't that powerful, in fact's it's about 1/4th the energy of a 76239. you can emphasize the first shot all day long and lug a 50bmg with you. but if you miss, you're toast. in all seriousness, you are mentally impaired.

>>33333448
Bootiful. What state is that?

>>33333528
I'm not the one who posted a video of an animal being stopped in 4 shots to try to argue with someones assertion that imagining an attack that lasted more than 5 shots was bordering on ridiculous.

>>33333538
>I'm not the one who posted a video of an animal being stopped in 4 shots to try to argue with someones assertion that imagining an attack that lasted more than 5 shots was bordering on ridiculous.

And this is the impairment I'm talking about.

>>33333518
I think you think there's only one person on this side, because I wrote on of those posts but not the other. 2 MOA is the upper egdge of what I'd consider acceptable for general field use. I've never been presented with an opportunity to shoot at game from prone, so IDK why I'd need anything more.
It can be tough to tell who's arguing what on this place, I feel you.
I'll argue with you about this though if you want. "have fun with your hunting rifle and dying when you get larped by poachers"
I'd love to argue with you about this.

>>33333551
See >>33333538

>>33333589
There is nothing to argue. You want semi-auto. I've said it over and over. You're being stubborn. Now go to bed.

>>33333551
Maybe you should read my post again? Idk, because your attempt to bring up a counter point failed so thoroughly that I can only imagine you didn't understand my position.
>I said couldn't imagine an animal charge being long enough that you had the opportunity to fire much more than 5 shots.
>You retorted by posting a vid of an animal charge that took 4 shots to end.
>I pointed out that 4 was less than 5.
>You retorted that it would have been even fewer with a rifle because they are more powerful.
Yes anon, indeed!

>>33333518
If you're being attacked by multiples of anything more ferocious than ground squirrels you're probably fucked no matter what rifle you're carrying.

To most people weight matters more than having extra rounds on tap without having to do anything other than pull the trigger again, and it's irrefutable you can make a boltgun lighter than you can a semi. ESPECIALLY when you consider that the need to use it in self defense AT ALL is an extremely low probability, but having to carry it long distances is nearly guaranteed.

One pound isn't much of a difference if all you're doing is carrying to and from your durr stand. One pound is a hell of a difference when you're carrying it 10 miles up and down mountains. And rarely is the difference between a semi and a boltgun only a single pound unless there's a significant difference in barrel length or profile.

>>33333638
>you retorted with a vid of an animal charge that took 4 shots to end
"moose standing in the road being aggressive for a minute before charging, the guy not being able to draw before it's over, then backing off and getting shot while it's standing there" is not the same as a guy stopping an actively charging animal.

>>33333249
Soo...yeah. Great nonproof there. Are you Russian, or aspire to be one? Because that was a very vatnik move.

>>33333664
Yeah? So if a situation where the defender had the opportunity to fire 4 shots is unlikely, then that makes my point stronger.

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>>33333529
Oregon

>>33333736
>Oregon
>snow
Nigger I'm jealous af. I lived in Bellingham WA (maybe 20 miles from the Canadian border) for 6 years and got snow all of once and it was less than an inch.

We just got the cold (-52*F at the lowest) and the wind (40mph constant with gusts to 70mph) from September to May.

>>33333653
So... a hunting rifle.

>>33333792
A hunting carbine, but yeah basically.

Especially since a lot of the concepts that went into Cooper's first envisionment of the Scout Rifle are obsolete, and "hunting rifles" are no longer 26" barreled 11lb monstrosities.

>>33333807
Then I refer you to OP
>>33325095
>Scout Rifles
>Will this meme ever die?
The correct answer is "yes"

>>33333827
I disagree. The name Scout Rifle may die at some point (although probably not any time soon, there's money to be made in it) but the concept will continue to evolve.

Police marksmen in urban environments will continue to need a compact, relatively lightweight rifle with a low-mid power optic capable of good precision because they're either fat or carrying 100lbs of military-handmedown gear and having to run up potentially dozens of flights of stairs with it to make a 20-200m shot.

Mountain hunters will still need a lightweight, handy rifle they won't wear themselves out carrying around shitty terrain at high elevations to fire hopefully only 1 round out of.

Ranchers will still need a compact rifle that'll fit in a saddle or ATV scabbard that's capable of drilling a coyote or illegal at 400m because that's the only shot they're gonna get.

Those that hunt in arctic environments will still need a rifle they can 100% guarantee won't shit the bed on their once-in-a-lifetime muskox/caribou/polar bear/yeti hunt.

Eastern and brush hunters will still need a compact, light rifle the kudzu/multiflora rose won't literally rip out of their hands if they're not 30ft up the nearest loblolly pine.

>>33333954
Fuck, ran out of room.
>will it always and forever be a boltgun?
Probably not. Semi's are getting lighter and lighter, I expect at some point receiver weight will be such a minimal part of over all rifle weight they'll get close enough people won't care about the weight difference. Will that be next year? No. 10 years from now? Probably not, but possible. But it will happen at some point.
>will it always and forever be a compact rifle chambered in a caliber capable of killing people and medium-sized game at beyond-CQB distances?
Absolutely, because that's a usage that actually exists outside of fringe or improbable scenarios.

Take a look at the resurgence of recce rifles in military and police usage. Their whole schtick was being a precision rifle that was shorter and lighter than an actual sniper rifle.

Take a look at how precision rifles marketed to police have shrunk in all dimensions including caliber. 20 years ago and everyone was using .300wm in a 30" bull-barreled rifle, now they're mostly 20" .308's with a smattering of 16" and 18" micro-action calibers like .223 and 6.5gren (a police department near me recently switched to .204 Ruger, which I disagree with, but it's not like they ever actually shoot anybody) because they finally realized that heavy rifles fucking suck and they don't ever engage past a couple hundred yards because lolbuldingsinnaway innacity.

>>33333954
>because they're either fat or carrying 100lbs of military-handmedown gear
It's absolutely hysterical when it's both.

I got to witness the local SWAT team (fairly large metro area) train at one of the public ranges. The sheer amount of bullshit they all had on was astounding and comical.
>everyone had shotgun shells, chemlights, pen flares, and flexicuffs stuffed in every single MOLLE loop on their hand-me-down full armor vests, even though nobody had a shotgun and literally wtf would a cop need a pen flare for, and there's literally no scenario ever where you'd need the probably close to 200 flexicuffs without having time for someone to go grab a bag out of the bearcat or have backup bring you some.
>everyone had a rope bag on their left calf, a climbing harness on, and a cow tail clipped to it. SWAT team doesn't have access to a single helicopter and they've literally not once ever rappelled in their entire history in either training or action
>daylight-only training exercise and they all had NODs on their helmets and COTAs on their rifles
>they all had both assault packs on and sustainment packs in their cars like they were gonna go hump the Afghan mountains for a week
>they all had frag grenade pouches on their vests despite them not even having access to frag grenades under any scenario

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>>33333954
Police snipers use semi-auto and a low power scope. Otherwise, what you're describing is a modern hunting rifle. The "scout sniper" concept was so good everything is evolving towards that. Everyone wants a hunting rifle that is
>light
>short
>accurate
>high capacity
>variable scope

And one day when all the Fudds die, and everyone realizes semi-autos are reliable and accurate now, and a few pounds isn't too much to pay for faster follow-up shots, then what? I said a LONG time ago, unless you are
>fudd
>hipster
>poor

If you EVER foresee the need to shoot BACK at sometone or an animal is TRYING TO KILL YOU, you want a semi-FUCKING-auto.
/thread

>>33327896
Is it a MATADOR Arms Sabertooth aluminum stock?

Those are sexy.

>>33334049
>If you EVER foresee the need to shoot BACK at sometone or an animal is TRYING TO KILL YOU, you want a semi-FUCKING-auto.
Repeating youur mantra doesn't make it more true. If all rifles were otherwise the same this would be true, but with things as they are now it just isn't.

>>33334111
Only a fool would knowiingly choose a bolt action for room clearing or cqb, but for those of us who don't live on omaha beach the scout concept remains relevant.

>>33329818
You know what you are talking about friend. I'm sorry these autists don't understand you speak in an ethical hunting context. They don't understand making a vitals shot at 600m is very difficult, anything less and you risk losing the kill and causing it to suffer. Kids these days. Maybe one day they will learn to differentiate between acceptable combat accuracy and hunting accuracy.

>>33334168
The problem is that people read about what's possible and mistake it for what's advisable.
For reference see the guy above who thought an AK was an acceptable gun for rhino.

>>33334249
Moving the goalposts AGAIN. Are we talking about hunting or a charging animal? I.e. are we talking about a hunting rifle or a combat rifle?

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>>33334119
>but for those of us who don't live on omaha beach the scout concept remains relevant.

...you live in a very special place....

>>33334291
Calm down autist, it wasn't you. There was a guy above who literally argued that an AK was ok for any game because Africans use it on elephants and shit.
I mean, unless that was you in which case I'm so sorry you're dumb my dude. It must be hard.

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>>33334338
>There was a guy above who literally argued that an AK was ok for any game because Africans use it on elephants and shit.

You're lying again Cenk, I never said anything about Afreaka. Although just from anecdotal evidence and common sense, AKs should do fine.

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>>33334352
>Elephant and rhino are fast too. Their record of outrunning nig poachers with beat AKs is still lousy.
Was this you my dude?!?!? If so I'm so sorry. It must hurt to be so dumb. Either that or pic related is you.
Oh also you indeed didn't say anything about Africa. I suppose it is possible you were talking about poachers shooting elephants with AKs on one of the other continents...........

>>33334387
You have been talking to multiple guys here, I'm >>33333528
>>33333551
>>33333411

anyhow, fun story:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/07/rhino-shot-dead-by-poachers-at-french-zoo

I guess France has transitioned to it's final form and become Afreka.

>>33334413
So then I wasn't talking about you, and when you accused me of lying again you were factually incorrect, again.

>>33334427
assuming your that guy ofc. But yeah, the transformation is complete.

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So did we decide if we wanted a hunting rifle or a combat rifle yet?

>>33334537
BOTH AND NEITHER

>>33334537

Combat rifle in a full caliber is fine, if you can get it light enough. Is a 6-6.5lbs AR-10 or SCAR doable?

>>33332202
your shit analogy is shit and you should feel like a douche for having that opinion

>>33334049
yeah nah at this point youre just being retarded on purpose.

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>>33325095
It seems to me that the scout rifle is something that just serves a super niche roll, whereas Cooper probably wanted this rifle to be the ultimate rifle, I can only see it being used for scenarios where I am not hunting, or planning on having to defend myself but want something super light to carry JUST IN CASE

you missed blurring out the ID in >>33331177 like you did in >>33331290

>>33335620
Not realistically, a 6.5lb AR-15 is considered lightweight. Beefing up the platform to handle .308 usually puts the base rifle in the 8lb+ range.

The scout concept is just that: a concept. It's funny to see how much people invest in holding up to one man's idea.

Personally I dig iron sights on bolt guns, I'm a manlet so I also like them to be shorter, forward optics are neat and have their own ups and downs, and the ching sling is a brilliant way to stabilize a rifle in the field from any position.

The scout rifle loses its merit when you try to adhere to it too closely (personal preference shapes ones idea of what is considered handy or lightweight) or if you try to push it too hard as the pinnacle of firearms when its merely meant to be a jack of all trades gun that can be squeezed into any role.

I love my Savage scout and wouldnt trade it for anything

>>33330040
You should look into the Savage 11 Scout the green stocked versions can be had for $500 and aren't based on Mossberg's terrible action. Way better aftermarket too

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>>33338041
>The scout rifle loses its merit when you try to adhere to it too closely (personal preference shapes ones idea of what is considered handy or lightweight) or if you try to push it too hard as the pinnacle of firearms when its merely meant to be a jack of all trades gun that can be squeezed into any role.
Fanboys ruin everything they touch.

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This thread is still alive? Jesus, why are you trying so hard not to get a semi-auto? If someone or something is shooting at me or trying to kill me, I don't want to be messing around with a bolt or lever. It's just not acceptable these days, sorry. Three pounds is not a lot of extra weight, and that's even when you're talking about over the lightest bolt gun possible, which isn't going to be a "scout rifle" or whatever it's just a fucking hunting rifle. The fuck is wrong with ya'll?? I thought I explained this already. If a modern semi-auto is unreliable, there is something wrong with it. They can be sub-moa, too, for those 700m shots. You are clinging to a concept that is obsolete. Deal with it.

>>33338214
Bro stop you're embarrassing yourself.

>>33338041

> It's funny to see how much people invest in holding up to one man's idea.

Eh, I don't care about stripper clips or irons sights or LER optics. But I find the idea of a handy carbine with a sling in 6-7lbs pretty useful for general outdoors use. My dream gun is a full-size semi-auto with optic that's robust enough to keep zero, light enough to lug around all day without bitching about it, and inexpensive enough that I don't worry about babying it.

Basically, I want a gun I can treat the same way I treat my table saw.

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>>33325095
as if these weapons wont be modified for hunting/combat one day down the line when humans need them for something other than rotting in a gun safe. get a fucking life fun police

"oh don't use my retro gladius on those barbarians! i wanna wanna hang it on the wall in my house they are about to tare down."

pic related. it may be airshit but this is the future you'll inevitable get

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>>33328225
Steyr Man-licker coming through