. 357 sig

>>33293137
Expensive meme round that doesn't do anything 9mm won't do cheaper.

>>33293137
Out of a subcompact I'd just go with 9mm.

Now I do have a Glock 31 that I carry in the great smoky mountains national park, because the round is best suited out of a longer barrel.

>>33293137
Shot it once, and now my next handgun will be a Glock 31, probably Gen 4.

>>33293255
>round is best suited out of a deeper wallet.

Gay,

Shilling for underwood instead. Got some .45 supers there and now I feel like a woman when I shoot .45 acp.

>>33293335
Hey poorfag

>>33293164
I get that a +p+ 9 can get pretty impressive results, but can they get 1500fps like a decent 357 Sig can?
Also, I feel like +p+ 9 load can wear a 9mm pistol faster than a 357sig can wear out a 357 Sig pistol...

>>33293914
Where's the evidence that shows the corresponding performance increase equates to better terminal performance? There is none.

There is no difference between a head shot with non+P 9mm and a head shot with a .357 sig or a hand shot with a standard 9mm vs a .357 sig. Same as with any mainstream auto caliber between 9mm and .45ACP. Yes the mass/velocity numbers are different within the specified range and yet the terminal ballistics are not very different.

But if you want to feel like a special snowflake and rant on forums about your extra 200 or so FPS and how that make you a laser-Dan-the-killer-man all while spending more money per round for defense and training for no tangible terminal benefit feel free to meme on memer.

>>33293976
I will say the magtech carbine conversion kit makes the G31 a lot of fun but no idea what speeds it gets up to

>>33294061
Irrelevant speeds lol. You would have just as much fun with a 9mm carbine, but then you couldn't come in here and snowflake up the place.

Only true upside to meme-tier rounds is during a panic you will probably find some on the shelf a lot longer than mainstream rounds. Downside is once you run out of snowflake rounds you ain't scrounging any up.

>>33294088
Hitler if it gets bad enough that I have to scrounge multiple stores for 357 sig its already reloading and casting time

>>33294277
But cast boolits+much velocity leading muh polygonaly rifled barrel sempai! Muh high pressure memegun assploding in muh face when I am trying to remove kebab!

>>33294334
So clean the barrel like twice a lifetime and use properly sized and/or powder coated bullets and it's a total nonissue.

>>33294334
Not having other options? 45-70 was good enough for buffalo and feathers I am sure it will be fine for whatever is left. Besides electroplating takes time and electricity

>>33293976
The difference in ft/lbs between 9mm and .357 Sig is equal to the difference in ft/lbs between 9mm and .380 ACP. Clearly, this means there is no difference in terminal ballistics as long as bullets of similarly efficacious design are being employed, which is why everyone should be using .380 ACP and not 9mm in his /her carry gun.

>>33293914
1400 FPS with a 115gr round. Wear may be an issue though If fed as a steady diet depending on platform.

>>33293976
https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0803/0803.3051.pdf

>>33294809
>1400 fps with a 115 gr round for 9mm +P+

This means that the strongest possible loading for 9mm is actually weaker than the standard loading of .357 Sig. Meanwhile, the strongest loading for .357 Sig sends a 60 grain bullet at 2400 feet per second and generates over 700 ft.lbs of energy at the muzzle.

>>33294864
Bruh, we should keep it to similar weight levels, theres a reason i didnt reference some meme tier 60gr 9mm round. Nobody actually uses those anyways. a 124 gr .357 sig round(most commonly used light weight with actually viable designs out there) hits around 1475 fps. The 115gr nosler rounds in .357 sig hit about 1550. a whopping increase of ~100 ftlbs.

>>33294864
oh and fyi, most factory 125gr .357 sig rounds are like 1350-1400 fps lol

It's mostly a case of the performance benefits weren't enough to warrant more folks switching over to it. Yes it's faster and has better penetrative abilities (which I believe was the original point of the round, better barrier penetration to hit the target). But it's snappier and also has pretty nasty night time muzzle flash from what I recall reading about evaluations of the round.

The only major agency still using it is the Secret Service I think? Too expensive for the marginal benefits it offers.

>>33294826

>The FBI recommends that loads
>intended for self-defense and law enforcement applications meet
>a minimum penetration requirement of 12” in ballistic gelatin.[8]Maximizing ballistic
>pressure wave effects requires transferring maximum energy in a
>penetration distance that meets this requirement. In addition, bullets that fragment and
>meet minimum penetration requirements
>generate higher pressure waves than bullets
>which do not fragment. Understanding
>the potential benefits of remote ballistic
>pressure wave effects leads us to favor
>loads with at least 500 ft-lbs of energy.

>With a handgun, no wounding
>mechanism can be relied on to produce
>incapacitation 100% of the time within
>the short span of most gunfights.
>Selecting a good self-defense load is
>only a small part of surviving a gunfight.
>You have to hit an attacker to hurt him,
>and you need a good plan for surviving
>until your hits take effect. Get good
>training, practice regularly, learn to use
>cover, and pray that you will never have
>a lethal force encounter armed only with
>a handgun.

Seems like a it doesn't really matter what you chose. As it clearly states no one round of pistol ammo can incapacitate, unless you hit brain or cns.

>>33293137
It has a SIGnificant advantage over other rounds.

>>33294993
What most meme round aficionados refuse to accept is that handgun rounds are pathetic man killers. Unless you get a CNS hit your chances of getting a one shot stop are very low. If some tard sleeps better at night because muh meme gun has more numbers whatever, but it's an illusion of superiority.

I maintain that the amount of ammo you can train with for the same money is greater for 9mm than meme supreme and that is much more effective strategy for ensuring a successful defensive shooting outcome than MUH NUMBERS.

>>33295071
That's why the NFA needs to die and quiet SBRs become common. The way to get around pistol ballistic deficiencies is a short rifle.

>>33295028
Underrated kek

>>33294722
... Buh 380 is more expensiver

>>33295071
It's not about killing people, it's about being able to conceal a gun that can successfully stop a threat if one should ever need to use it.
With that said, (kill shots aside) considering the energy being transferred into a human body from a high velocity round, what could be the possible outcomes? A round into a body (stomach, hip, shoulder).

>>33293137
For subcompact get a 9mm and 115 or 124 +p ammo.

For 4.5 inch barrels and larger, yeah 357 has time to burn and recoils like a stout 9mm, but less recoil and similar energy to 10mm