This is a picture of Simo Häyhä, but can someone on /k/ explain

>>33288262
It's not Simo and it's a staged photograph.

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>>33288262
>he doesn't know the secret Finnish technique to stabbing at over 300 meters

not if he trains with his rifle like that.

>>33288262
It's staged and fake as his kill count
>10 years ago: "He killed 300 ruskies"
>5 years ago:"He killed 450 ruskies"
>now:"He killed 9999 ruskies with his smg in 1 day"

>>33288262
>This is a picture of Simo Häyhä
How wrong you are, champ

That's a Swedish volunteer and an M96 Mauser

>>33288262
if rifle was zeroed with bayonet on as mosins were removing bayonet would actually change point of impact

>>33288299
I have no problem believing Simo's insanely high kill count. I'm just not sure how impressive it really was. Dude was shooting fish in a barrel. Given the terrain and type of enemy, I find Hathcock's feats more impressive.

>>33288371
And he couldn't rezero irons?

>>33290020
He would have to replace the clipa-zzing aswell and that is a whole month salary.

>>33288944

Just read the wiki article on Hachcock. What a fucking badass!

>>33288299
>asshurt vatnik

On Swedish Mauser adding the bayonet changes the zero from 300m to 100 meters, and are built into the harmonics of the rifle because Sweden. Just as accurate with and without.

>>33288299
highly doubt it's a fake kill count, the issue is more that he was hunting conscripts with 0 initiative and leadership who were lost in the Finnish wasteland. You'd rack up high kill counts too. These were soldiers who were so poorly motivated and trained that they would panic at the drop of a hat and didn't even do common sense things like attempt to break out of encirclements. All they ever did was dig in and hope they got backup.

Not to say he wasn't a skilled sniper, but had he been up against more veteran soviets in the continuation war you would've seen his crazy high kill rates fall quite a bit.


>>33288262

Soviet made Mosins were always sighted in with the bayonet attached/extended. That however is a Finnish bayonet so that rifle is probably an M39 or something, which I doubt the Finns sighted with the bayonet on. At the very least, there would be little reason for Similar to be using it, so that would imply a staged photograph for PR purposes.

>>33291553
fuck nvm I'm an idiot I didn't recheck the picture, the guy ain't even holding a midi in the first place, definitely ain't simo

>>33291553
Man, bayonet for an m39 cost more then the rifle...One day

>>33288262
Commando Pro, my dude.

>>33291553
This, inbred and/or alcoholic Soviet conscripts weren't really on any other tier than Unga Bunga tribals or Somali pirates, at least not at the time.

Might not have been as easy with veterans from fighting off Germany and then taking Berlin, then there'd be some experience, but that was a brief window because Stalin made sure to purge the shit out of most of the people who really made all that shit happen, so that all got rolled back pretty soon, putting the Russian military at square one again.

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When Simo was awarded his prize m/28-30 on February 17th 1940, he was credited with "219 kills with rifle and as much with submachine gun". He was wounded and taken out of action March 6th.

>Hathcock is better because he is an American

>>33288262
It might be staged, but it's not unbelievable for him to have been working with a fixed bayonet either. He didn't make all his kills (or even many of them) at extreme range. He stalked them, and in fact he got a lot of his kills with his KP-31 at very short range. And they sent large units out after him, with all the support they could muster. So it's not inconceivable he'd like that bayonet in place just in case his enemies got the drop on him.

>>33288284
Got any proof or rationale for that, or just a gut feeling you wanted to throw out?

If it's not him it's certainly been presented as him many many times, so where did it come from?

>>33291553
You could say that at first, but after awhile they were sending out their best snipers and special forces to hunt him man.

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>>33292530

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>>33292530
>Got any proof or rationale for that, or just a gut feeling you wanted to throw out?
He never used a Swedish Mauser m/96, for one.

>>33288287
It still affects the balance of the gun.

>>33291553

As already the soldier shown in OP's photo is a Swede - not Simo. Also, the rifle is Swedish 6.5mm (Mauser) infantry rifle m/96.

>>33292541
>>33292551
How much different is his M28 from a YugoSlav m24 ??

>>33288286
SPBP

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>>33292541

>>33288262
It shouldnt change how the rifle shoots, it should just make it more frontheavy and frontstabby

>>33294636
>>33288262
Rifles in that era were actually zeroed in at the factory with the bayonet attached, and they do change point of impact by a slight, but noticeable margin.

>>33288262
That is not Simo Häyhä.

That is a swedish volunter.

>>33288262
Yeah that's a genuine photo of a guy who couldn't be found by hundreds of Russians and evaded nearly all air strikes against him but someone stood right in front of him and took a photo.

Also bayonets don't do anything with accuracy, they just increase melee +20 but reduces hip fire -10. That and it takes up the accessory slot so you can't use any silencers or bipods or anything.

>>33288262
>This is a picture of Simo Häyhä

Nope.

It's just some Swede volunteer.

OP here
Just curious
But how much does the bayonet change the accuracy of a rifle. Are we talking about millimeters or centimeters? How much does the barrel harmonics actually matter?

>>33292433
holy shit just how much of a manlet was this guy. never realized he was so short.

>>33288262
It's not Simo, but iirc Mosins were zeroed with with the bayonet.

>>33295466
the shorter the harder to see

>>33295172
Same thing right?

>>33295449
its very minute differences, but at the distances he was shooting, could mean an inch or so of difference at 100m. Scale that up and it gets a lot more significant. A man-sized man is not a very large target at 250m, and any variation to that can mess with accuracy, obviously.

>>33288262
Some rifles are factory-sighted with the bayonet on which means if you remove the bayonet you're always slightly inaccurate because of the weight of the gun

>>33290162
If you can find it online, read a book called White Feather if i recall correctly. Its a biography on him and is a very good book.

>>33295546
>man-sized man

Interesting

>>33291553
>highly doubt it's a fake kill count

Proofs. Every similar claim concerning, for example, German fighter aces, has been proven to be utter bullshit.

>>33294424

About as different as a Mosin and a Gewehr 98k.

>>33294424

Whoops thought you wrote Vz. 24, disregard.

>>33292530
>He didn't make all his kills (or even many of them) at extreme range. He stalked them, and in fact he got a lot of his kills with his KP-31 at very short range.
This. He was a sneaky bastard. If he ever ran out of ammo and got surrounded he'd probably still manage able to stab any Bolsheviks who wander by without getting noticed.

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>>33294424
One is a Mosin, the other is a Mauser, for one.

>>33295466
Simo was 5' 3".

>>33295466

All real warriors are manlets.

Being big and tall just makes you a target.

>>33295172
>not knowing that like 10 people already said this
good job not reading the thread cocksucker

>>33296667
Whoa, dude. Simmer down now.

Hey, did you know that that's not actually a picture of Simo Hayha? It's actually a Swedish volunteer posing with a Mauser. Bet you didn't know that, huh?

>>33292472
>hathcock is better because fought against capable fighters

>>33288371
M28/30 most certainly was not zeroed with an affixed bayonet, seeing how Finnish Army had noticed that firing a Finnish Mosin with a bayonet affixed had a tendency to crack the front end of the stock over time, besides the photo is staged & the rifle in the photo is not a Mosin.

>>33296447
keep telling yourself that manlet

>>33295497
>iirc Mosins were zeroed with with the bayonet.
Russian/Soviet Mosins with their "rat's tail" -bayonets mounted to the muzzle with a ring were, Finnish Mosins with their blade bayonets mounted on the underside of the barrel weren't.

>>33296348
>Simo's actual rifle has rotted away in some rural field in the Finish countryside.

I don't know how to feel about this.

Somebody, track it down, find it.

>>33294649
not Finnish rifles

>>33288262
When was the last time anyone of y'all has seen a Mosin Nagant with such a stock and front sight? Get your shit straight, thats not Simo - although the whole internet tries to sell it as him

>>33295449
>Are we talking about millimeters or centimeters?
feet

a russian socket bayonet greatly changes the barrel harmonics

>>33295497
Thats right - but only for older Mosins.

EVERY new built M91/30 AND M9/30 that was made from older Mosins was zeroed without bayonet.

One of the lesser known Mosin facts

>>33300501
Simo fought at Kollaa which is today in Russia, I'm fairly certain some Soviet soldier picked up the rifle & if he didn't keep it himself it ended up being turned over to some armory & was probably issued to some hastily trained conscript sent to slow down the german advance in 1941 & got destroyed.

>>33295449
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSj5J-bKZBI

at 400 yards, an easy shot for Simo, the russian style of bayonet changes the point of impact several feet. i would assume the finnish bayonet would also change the point of impact a great deal

>>33292551
>that first picture text
My family is from the parts around Suomussalmi and it's held as a pretty solid fact that my great uncle did snipe at the Russians from a tree. I don't know the details how he supposedly did that, but that's what the elders of the family tell me.

>>33300603
That's an old myth. Nobody would put themselves in a location that's less solid and slows down escape if it comes to that

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>>33288262
Probably because of the same reason he used iron sights and a carbine-version of the Mosin Nagant:

Simo don't give no shits.

>>33302417
M28/30 isn't a carbine per se, it's a "short rifle"

>>33288262
Finnish technique.
Normies don't understand it

There is a movie coming out about him

>>33294424
Totally different.

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i miss mah Tkiv 85
comfy wooden furniture

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>>33303338
Here's your (you)

>>33303483
Buy one

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>>33303338
>a "short rifle"

Only relative to the 1891.

>>33300426

This is somewhat beside the point but to be exact the problem with rifle stock getting damaged if shot with bayonet attached was limited to rifle m/27 with original nose cap design. It was not an issue with any other Finnish Mosin-Nagant rifle models (m/24, m/28, m/28-30 and m/39) or even m/27 with updated nose cap. Simo's rifle was early m/28-30, so he could have shot it with bayonet attached withotu any issues if he would have wanted to do so. But both Finnish military and Civil Guard zeroed in their rifles without bayonets attached.

Russian/Soviet doctrine was to keep bayonets attached to Mosin-Nagant rifles at all times and they typically did not even issue scabbards for their bayonets.

>>33303338
>>33303786
Pretty sure he used a m28, not a m28/30

>>33303592

Correct. Finnish m/28-30 is only short if compared to infantry (long) rifle m/1891 version of Mosin-Nagant. There were/are some actual carbine-size Mosin-Nagant rifles such as Soviet m/38 & m/44, Russian m/07 and Finnish cavalry rifle m/27.

>>33303815
See >>33292433 His rifle was an early m/28-30 with the Mansner rear sight but the original m/28 sight.

>>33300442
audie murphy was 4'7"

>>33300537
It ended up killing germans in berlin

>>33295590
Marine Sniper and Silent Warrior, both by Charels Henderson, are about Hathcock and his exploits.

>>33303815

What is now known he did not use rifle m/28, but early production m/28-30 which still had m/28 type foresight - claiming that he used m/28 is a common mistake included to many publications. Also the serial number (60974) given in Finnish sources is correct, but not really a serial number - it's Civil Guard district number for the rifle. Even Palokangas repeated the old mistake of mistaking it as serial number in his books. I have seen m/28-30 with that serial number - it is in Pohjalainen collection and its from year 1939 production batch, while Simo had been using his rifle for several years before the war.

Suggested reading:
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?384057-White-Death-the-Sniper-Who-Killed-700-Soviets-in-100-Days

>>33304081
was it autism?

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>>33291562
>>33294677
>>33295172
>>33295497
>>33296773

It's unnerving how many people jump to conclusions at the slightest hint of circumstantial evidence

>>33304113

Kid, its called attention to detail. The thing that in collector circles allows knowing difference in between 200 USD firearm and 1,200 USD firearm even if they look exactly similar to 99% of people. If you don't know your shit, do not even try the game.

If Simo's personal m/28-30 would ever be found, it would be worth a fortune. But to ever have a chance of finding the real thing you first have to know what to look.

>>33295843
how about Russian sniper claims? Vasilly whats-his-nuts for example. did he really kill two gorillion Krauts in stalingrad?

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>>33288262
>>33288299

>>33304828
I heard he 360 noscoped General Paulus and defeated the whole Wehrmacht, to the last man, all by himself

>>33288286
Finns confirmed Commando glitching faggots.

>>33292472
Duh.

>>33292018
>winter war (1939-40)
>fighting battle of berlin (1945) veterans
>stalin purged in the late 20s the ones who took berlin in 1945?

what in the everlasting fuck are you talking about

>>33305130
>everlasting fuck

wonka pls

>>33304021
are you audie murphy

>>33296063
>He was a sneaky bastard.
Yep.

Exactly the sort of nutter that would sight his rifle in with a bayonet on just because he wanted the be able to stab anyone that stumbled on him while he was waiting for the main target.

>>33304443

Who's jumping to conclusions? The people who assume that some finnish farmer took a selfie between noscopes out in the fucking woods, or the people who assume that it's just a propaganda shot of some relative nobody in a mask?

fucking simpletons

he did that was because he was drunk. he's a fucking finn.

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>>33292472
That's the truth tho???

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>>33305600
Actually it was all to avoid seeing the girl he liked.

You're facing a group of 20 Finnish men. You know that 1 is an extrovert, and the other 19 are introverts, but you are not told which is which. Your job is to find the introvert. Can you do it? How?

>>33303532
around WWII there were "long rifles", "short rifles" and carbines, M28/30, SMLE etc. are "Short rifles", I'd also call Kar 98k a short rifle but since Germans decided to call it carbine, carbine it is.

>>33305130
A hypothetical?

>>33292018

>inbreeding
>Soviet union

So do we just throw the word inbred around to describe anyone we don't like now?

>>33310401
Churki probably were inbred. There are only so many genes to be passed around in your aul.

>>33288262
Literally the only thing that I believe about Simo's entire Story is that he survived being shot in the face. Why is it all these ridiculous stories of super sniper's only hail from countries with poorly formed conscript militaries that are getting bent over and fucked hard on the battle field.

>>33292552
maybe in a good way? really, if this is REALLY himo, with a score like that youd think he knows his rifle well. maybe the bayo weight change helps?

Like said many times, that ain't no Häyhä.
He didn't wear a mask. He didn't pose for photographers. He didn't use Swedish shit.

The pic just became connected to him along the years after the war, because of his "white death" nickname, and some photojournalist's desire to make him appear as a spooky snowman with a rifle.

>>33312280
Like said many times, Finns used exclusively Mosin variants, bayos were fairly rare because many Finnish troops literally went to war with their own, old hunting rifles, and nobody had any fancy tactical gear beyond pale white "snow suits" made out of sheets.

There was this entire TV document about him just recently. I'll see if I can still find it.

>>33312368
I think I found it:

https://mega.nz/#!HQ9SQDyT!OX1wmDvrsKjVU0rSf_Nz9wV_8qneNaIzU0ku6IGS8IQ

>>33312368
sure, but that dosent exclude the possibility himo did it. im not saying he did, or didnt, but when we do see anything verifiable from him, if its got a bayo on it itll be interesting. id have to see it to believe it, but it i see it, basically...

>>33312384
neat, dl`ing

>>33312387
it's not "Himo".
It's SIMO.
Surname: Häyhä.

>>33312396
sorry himo

>>33288299
i believe this man

>>33311304
propaganda

>>33312368
I thought they didn't use bayonets because they preferred knife fighting if they had to use a blade.

>>33292541
>Comic Sans

>>33303483
I remember this gun from operation flashpoint mod "finish defense force".

>>33311304
Don't forget that was a different time through. You're looking at relatively open battlefields, somewhat clearly defined fighting lines, and huge troop concentrations.

If modern day guys can pick-off 70-100 enemies in crowded urban environments, I don't think it's that outlandish for someone in a better shooting environment to get a high kill tally spread over more years.

Simo would have to average 5 per day, which is very high, but Russian soldiers were not issued winter camoflauge during part of this time and I think their method of "kill confirm" was less strict.

When your target falls behind the enemy line, who can really confirm the death?

>>33315999
Operation Flashpoint's FDF -mod is great, though I must admit that I absolutely hate the mission where you play as a fighter pilot in Winter war...

>>33303592
Yo where do I pick up one of those racks?

>>33295466
agree with this

-Simo
>Manlet
>barely 200 confirmed kills
>hiding in snow like some faggot
>probably making up half his kills

-Chris Kyle
>6'2(ideal height)
>over 300 confirmed kills
>punched Jessie Ventura, didnt even flinch
>fucked up people in the most deadly city of the middle east
>crazy high bounty on his head(insane)
>Navy Seal
>killed looters after the hurricane Katrina like some crazy Punisher

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>>33316273
IDK; I get mine at auctions for a buck or two.

>>33316186
>When your target falls behind the enemy line, who can really confirm the death?

And this is where the bulk of Simo
's story falls to shit, considering he supposedly worked alone, the only one there to "confirm" his kills was himself. So we have to take it entirely on his word that he sniped that many Ivan's by himself. The more likely truth is his story is complete bullocks.

>>33316721
Him and the Russians.

>>33295466
most men were manlets back then, especially the poor ones