Why do people advocate rifles and 12g for home defense? aren't

>>33279223
Lee me guess, you're the OP from the Glock thread aren't you?

Anyway
>Objecticely better round choice
>more stable
>better recoil control
>better for grappling when already drawn
>why would you need a safe for a rifle and not a handgun?
>a handgun will deafen and blind you too
>you can suppress a rifle too, it may even be easier
>objectively less as good as a rifle

Don't ask /k/ for advice if you just want validation OP.

>>33279235
>Lee me guess, you're the OP from the Glock thread aren't you?

This is exactly what I was thinking.
>retard gets btfo'd in a previous thread
>makes a dumb shit thread because of it

>>33279235
>>why would you need a safe for a rifle and not a handgun?
handguns can be effectively hidden without a safe, rifles can't.

>>Objecticely better round choice
And? you think you're fighting off armored CIA assassins? just a couple of shots from 45 or 9mm will drop the intruder dead

>>more stable
>>better recoil control
doesn't matter as long as you're not a shit tier shooter

>>you can suppress a rifle too, it may even be easier
45 can be effectively suppressed, rifle rounds only drop 10 decibles (unless you plan on loading subsonic 556 which won't even cycle)

>>33279249
>>33279235
Not the OP of it, but i've seen that thread.

>>33279262
>Not the OP of it, but i've seen that thread.

From the question you ask evidently, you haven't.

>>33279223
because its easier to use longguns and you want to drop someone immediately not have them bleed out 15 minutes from now after lethally wounding you

>>33279284
>not have them bleed out 15 minutes from
ever watched any liveleak video?

they drop dead after 3 or 4 handgun shots

Because shooting well with a shotgun is much easier than a handgun

I will always recommend 12ga to inexperienced because they're more likely to hit at 10 yards with buckshot than with 9mm/.45

>>33279296
That sounds like 2-3 rounds to many fampai

Rifles are too powerful and might kill the invader... in civilized states there is no CD/SYG so you need something less deadly.

>>33279328
>might kill the invader.
that's the point though

>>33279258
>it's easier to hide a handgun then a rifle
Do you not have a closer or a spot under your bed? It's the same as in your nightstand.

>you only need 5.56mm for arored intruders
You're an idiot. Not to mention both will over penetrate more.

>I'm a great shot I don't need all the help I can get
Said the idiot. Ever seen dash cam videos of cops mag dumping at 5ft and missing? Bet they were all "great" shots too.

>.45 suppress better
So does .300AAC and if you were looking at a meme round like .357 Sig, there's no reason not to look at .300 AAC.

>>33279384
*closet, thanks autocorrect.

>>33279384
>Do you not have a closer or a spot under your bed? It's the same as in your nightstand.
Kids will be kids, better keep it in a close locked dedicated nightstand drawer than having to stash my gun in my wife's laundry or the kid's #1 hiding spot (under bed)

>So does .300AAC and if you were looking at a meme round like .357 Sig, there's no reason not to look at .300 AAC.
what? i've never mentioned 357 and i'm not into obscure calibers, and sure as hell not into wasting my money on a dedicated AR chambered for an obscure caliber since a suppressor has costed me an arm and a leg.

>Said the idiot. Ever seen dash cam videos of cops mag dumping at 5ft and missing? Bet they were all "great" shots too.
You have millions of advantage over the intruder, you know the house, he doesn't, you know where he is, he doesn't. what makes it even shit for him it's going to be near blank darkness, and 99% of the time the intruder is a teenage untrained nigger who held a gun for his first time

>You're an idiot. Not to mention both will over penetrate more.
>pistol calibers will over penetrate
They have less energy than 556, so i doubt, and if it's true, hollowpoints.

Wow, I'm shocked nobody mentioned overpenetration yet.

>>33279258
>doesn't matter as long as you're not a shit tier shooter
Adrenaline's a hell of a drug. You may be the Sundance Kid at the local range, but maybe not in an IRL shootout.

People advocate rifles for home defense?

Lol, have fun killing your neighbor's baby on accident.

>>33279443
>kids will be kids
>has kids wants to shoot pistol in his house
Guess you like dead kids. Literally $5 will get you a set of bike hooks that will set you up with a rifle hiding spot in your closet your kids can't get too, but you can access easier then trying to fumble around with your keys

>I didn't mention a meme round
Okay, we'll pretend you aren't the OP from the other thread. Your considering suppressing your weapon, but you don't have money to spend on an actual surpassed platform?

You shouldn't be spending money suppressing your weapon.

>you have some advantages over the shooter so it's okay to use an objectively inferior weapon
Yeah, I like to go out of my way to make gunfights fair for the other party too. I know how you feel OP. Really why take bother using every advantage you have? Especially important ones like the ability to shoot better?

>.556 has more energy so it overpenetrates more
If you have no clue how ballistics work just admit it.

>>33279223
>>handgun
>>small
>>light
>>can be suppressed so it won't deafen and blind you
>>will work very well again any intruder and fulfills your HD needs
[citation needed]

>>33279478
my walls are made of brick

>>33279354
If you kill Criminals they win!

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>>33279496
not the guy you were talking to, but rifles don't have "the ability to shoot better"

ever tried to slice the pie with your rifle? shit is fucklong and xbox huge

if anything, you should get yourself a 9mm carbine or an SMG like the MPX or the MP5

that's the reason all SWAT units use them instead of long assed rifles

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>>33279390

>>33279223
>aren't handguns objectively better?
no, theyre objectively worse in every way except maneuverability

>>33279519

this, get an evo

You can use 150 grain HST's, they are made for short barrels so they will be less loud and have less of a flash

>>33279496
Sorry m8 but not everyone is a richfag, i'm already crying while looking at suppressor's prices right now and trying to wipe the idea of buying it, Let alone buying custom not-so-cheap AR with not-so-cheap ammo, just look at this fucking shit (pic related), if i'm already spending 1k on a custom AR and another 1-2k on a suppressor i might as well buy automatic thermal detecting sentries and nuclear powered defense robots

this is overcompensation, i like in the middle of buttfuck nowhere, worst thing i'll get is maybe some teenage nigger with a knife (and so does 99% of the population), i'm preparing against home intruders, not fucking FBI HRT entry teams

>>33279551
home intruders just get a 12 gauge or a lever gauge carbine that shoots 44 mag

>>33279443
>>33279496
no matter how much advantage rifles give you, they will never ever be worth the loss of hearing/eyesight

>DUDE IM HALF DEAF AND BLIND, AND MY TINNITUS IS KILLING ME BUT ITS WORTH IT CUZ I OPERATED

just try shooting a rifle in a closed space right after waking up at 3 am motherfucker, i dare you, i double dare you

>>33279223
rifles are easier to handle for people who dont shoot often like women and YOU might go and actively look for an intruder but most likely a lot of other people would call the police and wait at their bedroom door plus when your all hopped up on adrenaline and scared shitless its going to be a bitch to try to aim let a lone try to keep the gun still with your shaking hands not everybody is a trained navy seal you fucking retard

>>33279557
how does a rifle make you lose your eyesight lol

>>33279478
>i lack even a basic understanding of terminal ballistics

>>33279561
Ohhh, totally right! because rifles don't produce a fuckload of flash when fired!

>>33279223
Why do people advocate semi autos and revolvers for home defense? Aren't rifles and shotguns objectively better?

>Rifle/shotgun
>Consistently better for actually stopping/dropping whatever you're shooting at
>Great recoil absorbtion, which leads to
>Faster followup shots
>Deeper magazines
>Longer barrel for easier point shooting in the dead of night
>Much easier to mount more more powerful flashlights to


>Semi auto/wheelgun
>Inferior power (Inb4 stopping power is a meme, long guns have consistently been shown to be better at stopping than pistols)
>inferior recoil absorbtion, which leads to
>slower followup shots
>inferior magazine real estate
>shorter barrel makes point shooting more difficult
>harder to mount smaller and shitter flashlights to
>Can malfunction if you limpwrist, for semi autos

>>33279223
Because when I shoot someone, I insist that they stay shot. Call me old fashioned.

>people actually arguing for rifles for home defense
I get shotguns, but those are more useful for telling bears, blacks, and black bears to fuck off before they're in your house.

Just keep your favorite full size handgun on the nightstand like every other american.

>>33279582
Pistol calibers a shit.

>>33279582
theres literally no argument against an SBR AR-15 with a suppressor and fragmenting ammo. theres not even an argument for a regular AR-15 with fragmenting ammo that doesnt apply to shotguns and handguns as well.

>>33279591
A full sized pistol can carry anything from .22lr to .600 nitro express.

>>33279600
>SBR AR-15 with a suppressor and fragmenting ammo
Price

>>33279622
are you willing to be deaf or dead to save $800?

>>33279557
Handguns are loud and give off a decent muzzleflash too. The only time I'd say the muzzle flash is blinding is if you are firing an sbr or pistol ar/ak

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>>33279223
Because one of these with a 25 round drum of 3 inch buck will turn a home invader into a fine red mush.

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>>33279642

>>33279650
>>33279642
Been thinking of getting one would you recommend it?

>>33279642
And it'll turn your feasible self defense plea into a joke. Enjoy going to jail for 1st degree manslaughter.

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>>33279519
Is this post from the fucking 90s. Jesus Christ.

>Have you ever tried slicing the lie with your rifle
Yeah it's not that hard, especially with this new thing called a carbine length barrel and adjustable stock that really shortens up the AR platform.

>SWAT uses SMGs
Not really since the 90s. Pretty much everybody uses the AR platform now because it performs better than a SMG platform. Again rifle rounds are better than pistol rounds.

I mean here's the FBI HRT probably one of the premier SWAT units using you guessed it, the M4.

>>33279551
Here's a novel concept, you don't need to run a suppressed platform. If you're really just worried about the ocassional kid breaking into your home you could get buy with a Maverick 88. Why do you think you have to go suppressed?

>>33279557
>rifles will make you deaf and blind if you shoot them inside
And a pistol won't? This is probably one of the dumbest arguments I've seen. Muzzle flash is not that big of a deal-unless you're using a break instead of a flash hider- and you should be using a weapon light anyway.

Also it's not going to make you deaf, there's going to be some ringing, but you'll be able to hear.

If you're really that worried buy some active hearing protection and keep it next to your rifle.

>>33279223
Long guns are easier to use and better at stopping.

Active hearing protection is a thing.
Mounted lights are a thing.
Rifles can be suppressed too.
Long guns don't need a safe more than a handgun.

>>33279258
>place rifle behind/inside/ontop of wardrobe
>place rifle under bed
>place rifle on top of or behind bookshelf

>>33279258
>rifles can't be suppressed!
>what is .300BLK
>what are 9mm 147gr subsonics (which will kick a .45 pistol's ass)

>>33279443
>kids tho
Maybe don't be a shit parent and teach them about gun safety and to respect guns and to not treat them like toys.

But sure, I get it, some people are lazy pieces of shit that think parenting is hard.

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>>33279443
>They have less energy than 556, so i doubt, and if it's true, hollowpoints.

It's right here that I realized you get all your firearms knowledge from video games.

>>33279443
>doesn't understand how 5.56mm works

>>33279478
>understands even less

>>33279519
SWAT hasn't used subguns in forever, and you can easily make an AR the length of an MP5

>>33279550
Well a 9mm carbine will beat a 9mm pistol.

>>33279582
>u-unAmerican!
KYS
Y
S

>>33279443
>>33279478
you dumbasses
>KE = (1/2)(m)(v^2)
>pistol bullet has more m and less v
>rifle bullet has more v and less m
>bullet going through a wall loses v but not m
doesn't take a physicist to guess which one loses more lethality

>>33280041
No it won't you fucking mouthbreather, show me a single case where someone was sentenced for manslaughter or murder for their choice of weapon alone.

It doesn't fucking exist.
Literally the only thing coming close is Gary Fadden, who was freed and who wasn't exactly in a typical home defense situation.

>>33279572
Mine doesn't. I have a Smith Vortex flash suppressor on it and you can't even see the flash at night unless you are using NVGs, even the. It's minimal.

>all these people who shrug off 9mm like water

Must be nice being an anime hero.

pistol is a better choice.

it's not really up for a debate, especially against the weak arguments u carbinfags keep regurgitating.

>>33280187

In addition to this the 5.56 will fragment to shit if it hits basically anything at close range.

There have been cases of teams shooting fifty+ rounds directly at someone in a car at close range but the rounds fragmented so badly the person gave up and was taken into custody with minor scratches from the shrapnel.

>>33280226
Grab your pistol and meet me outside, let's do an experiment. Howbowdat?

>>33280226
carbine is a better choice.

it's not really up for a debate, especially against the weak arguments u pistolfags keep regurgitating.

>>33280232
*teleprots behind u*
*pulls pistol from waistband*

now what

>>33279223
pistols are harder to use
not that it matters when you point shooting

>>33280208
Study any shooting incident, pistol cartridges of all types are generally mediocre stoppers, even .45 and 10mm, while rifles and shotguns stop very fast, very easily, and very effectively.

Look up the 1986 FBI Miami Shootout, all it takes is enough adrenaline and determination, and it's possible to power through numerous handgun wounds for several minutes before dying.
Michael plat dropped 6 FBI agents with a Mini-14 before he died, four of those agents died pretty much immediately, and the other two were instantly incapacitated, only one of them (Mireles) managing to get up and get back into action, at the very end of the fight, when Platt was weak, slow, delerious, and at death's doorstep.
That isn't to say a handgun can't work, and fast even, but your odds are just not nearly as good.

For that matter multiple people mentioned 9mm carbines.

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>>33280226
So that's why all those SWAT teams make entry with pistols?

>>33279223
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXwPtP-KDNk

>>33280248
>enough adrenaline and determination
Adrenaline, determination, several cars in the way, and weak loads.

>>33280263
>implying shit would have changed with muh 10mm
FBI pls go

All his injuries were outside his car (well, aside from the last ones that arguably killed him).

If I didn't have .300bkl out handy, which I don't, I'd opt for a supressed 9mm with 147gr over an AR just to preserve my families enjoyment of music.

Otherwise, 5.56 all the way.

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>>33280256
>So that's why all those SWAT teams make entry with pistols?

I do not advocate this, but the GIGN point man would be going in with a Manurhin MR-73 .357Mag revolver as his primary.

Why? Because it was a single shot man stopper with pin point accuracy. GIGN had a lot of luck with that tactic, but it's seriously outdated after many decades of use and required soooo much training.

>>33280299
Go for a 9mm SBR with subsonics and a suppressor.

>>33280201
hey thanks for the product tip man

>>33279223
Probably because if you shoot them with a 12 guage or rifle they are dead.

That said, I clear my house with a .380, I'm a madman.

LOL @ "pistol calibers wont stop criminals". Which is why every cop (you know, the people whose literal job it is to stop criminals) in the world carries a pistol on the job, right?

"Every professional in this field uses this tool, but I think I know better..." Please fuck off.

>>33279223
>suppress the rifle
There, alternatively grow a pair of balls.

>>33279223
>deliberately making things harder and more dangerous
a handgun isn't a home defense weapon.

>>33280857
Because you can't really carry a rifle everywhere

>>33280857
Because 99% of his job is to fucking walk around with a gun, it's much easier to carry a handgun than a fucking rifle you retard

A home defense situation doesn't have that problem so you can go with the superior weapon

>>33280909

why not

>>33279572
t. Nogunz

>>33280857
Yet also carry a rifle and shotgun in the car for when shit really hits the fan

>>33280857
Are you just willfully obtuse?

>>33280458
Didn't they do this because semi's were more likely to jam if the slide hit the shield?

>>33281279
A handgun will work, certainly beats a knife, a stick, or nothing at all, but a long gun is just WAY more advantageous, and really doesn't have to be very expensive.

Even a KelTec SU16 (a rifle who's strengths are a low price and light weight) beats the shit out of a Glock 17 in this scenario simply because upwards of 10, 20 or 30 + 1 rounds of .223 Remington from the shoulder and with a forward grip will let you deal with multiple targets more quickly and reliably than 17+1 rounds of 9mm Luger with just one point of contact.

Recoil is easier, so followup shots are easier, and .223 is not only much more powerful, but the lightweight projectile will begin to break apart when it hits against or enters hard and rigid media such as drywall, wood and particle board, vastly decreasing the risk of overpenetrating a typical interior wall, something like a 9mm or .45 caliber bullet (or regular hunting buckshot) is much heavier and has a significantly increased risk of passing through interior walls.

>>33281749
I want to fill in; bullets like 5.56x45mm and 5.45x39mm, a lightweight, small caliber bullet moving at super high speed, will break apart on hard surfaces, which will show when it comes to living media, when a bullet like this hits bone, it just goes fucking ape, stories from Vietnam and the Russo-Afghan war, of the M16 and the AK74 respectively, people basically ending up having what's left of their leg amputated because the bullet just demolished their hip-bone, or taking one in the shoulder and basically losing all use of their arm, and that's if they survived, it's a lot of bloodloss very fast, very debilitating and crippling injuries.

>>33279258
>just a couple of shots from 45 or 9mm will drop the intruder dead
nope, a good five or ten minutes of bleeding out

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Why does everyone reply to bait threads?

>>33281745
>Didn't they do this because semi's were more likely to jam if the slide hit the shield?

Possible, but there's also pictures of them training without shields and the point man still used his MR-73, while the others following had (back then) MP5s and a shotgun.

Their training and experience probably just told them that their hot .357Mag loads should be able to take out about anything they faced with a single shot. (not necessarily lethally mind you, GIGN was of the "if the perp dies, we kinda failed" staple)

>>33279223

It will only blind your ass if you don't have a flash hider on there.

>>33279515

Let them win. They won't be alive to enjoy their victory

>>33279223

>aren't handguns objectively better?
No.
>>long
No longer than a pistol at extension.
>heavy
Lift bro. 6-10 pounds is not heavy for short term use.
>will deafen and blind the fuck out of you if you shoot it at 3AM in total darkness (556 isn't a joke)
Implying you wont be fucked with by ANY gunshot indoors at 3 AM. Goes double after you flashbulb yourself trying to ID your target with your 24238048320 lumen pistol light.
>can be suppressed so it won't deafen and blind you
Implying you cant put a can on a longarm or SBR or totally-not-a-pistol AR. Also inb4 omg hes an assassin.
>can be kept in your night table
Can be leaned against your night table, retard
>will work very well again any intruder and fulfills your HD needs
Will work better against any intruder including and especially one that bothered to wear a soft armor vest, and fills your go-the-fuck-to-war needs in addition to HD. In the case of shotguns, also fulfills your hunting and absolute shit-ruining of unarmored redguards and falmer.

In short, fuck you OP, keep sucking dicks.

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>>33282075
this anon is right

Genuinely curious here. Do you really think you'd need to use 30 plus rounds of 223 in a break and enter situation? If your unloading that much ammo your house is going to be fucked.

>>33282519
>implying most people on /k/ don't own a home merely as bait to lure them in

>>33282075
I'm with this dude. My 12 gauge is my home defender.

>>33281876
I mean, it CAN, but you'd rather want a rifle.

>>33282519
>need
REEEEE FUCK OFF
>30 plus rounds of 223
thanks to fuckers like you I can only use 15 rounds which is actually 10 because 10n rd mags are easier to find.

>>33282519
>i have a 30 round magazine
>that means I'm going to use all of it as soon as the slightest opportunity presents itself
"Wrong."

>>33279223
>>Rifle/shotgun
>>long
Only legitimate criticism in the entirety of your post
>>heavy
Who gives a shit? You're defending your home, not marching through Valley Forge.
>>need a safe unless you live alone
The same is true for handguns, though if you don't trust the people you live with you should move
>>will deafen and blind the fuck out of you if you shoot it at 3AM in total darkness (556 isn't a joke)
Wear ear pro. Then only person being deafened is whoever survives your attack.

>>handgun
>>small
Ok
>>light
Irrelevant for such a short duration of time
>>can be suppressed so it won't deafen and blind you
And a rifle can't? You could theoretically even get a rifle chambered for a pistol cartridge.
>>can be kept in your night table
Storage is a ridiculously autistic argument, you could just lean your shotgun up against the wall of your bedroom
>>will work very well again any intruder and fulfills your HD needs
Will objectively work worse than any rifle or shotgun.

>>33279308
>What are pistol caliber carbines

>>33279443
What's the advantage of a locked drawer over a safe?

>>33282519
No, of course not. Can you think a single instance we having less ammo would be preferable to having more though?

>inb4 jury
Unless you're a lawyer I don't want to hear it

>>33282519
What a stupid fucking question. I bet revolver guys asked Glock guys" do you really need 15+ rounds?" when semi autos started becoming more prevalent.

>>33282787
...faster and less noisier to unlock?

>>33281902
Then why not have everyone on the team carry a fucking revolver you idiot. Oh right, Because point man has a shield in his other hand otherwise he'd have to be a retard not to take a long gun.

>implying I sleep in my house
>implying I'm not in the woods sleeping with my GAP-10
>implying I dont have a lifelike dummy in my bead
>implying I don't have wind and range markers near my windows

OPpls

>>33282519
>need
There's that word again.

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Honest question for gunless guy.

Whats better for home-defense (California).

>M1 Garand

vs

>Mossberg 500/Remington 870

>>33284956
The mossberg it has a better variety of loads (birdshot, buckshot, slugs) and it would be cheaper to train with and the gun itself is cheaper leaving you with enough money left over from not buying a garand to stock up on ammo and go train.

>>33279223
Why do people advocate rifles for home defense? aren't handguns objectively better?
nope
>>33279296
>they drop dead after 3 or 4 handgun shots
nope, they just stop moving and eventually fall unconscious.

>>33284956
A good 12 gauge shotgun is the traditional home defense choice.

Mossy or Remmy, pick your poison. Get a field barrel with screw in chokes for hunting, and a 18" cylinder bore barrel for home defense.

Of course, you should also get a Garand, because they're glorious.

Actually the thought of charging down the hallway repelling felons in the dark of night with an M1 delights me.

BANG
BANG BANG
BANG BANG BANG
BANG
BANG
Ping!!!
*bayonet the sumbitch*

>>33285008

Thanks for the info, but lets say money wasnt an issue. Is the M1 as reliable as the shotgun?

>>33285072
And then you get sued or go to jail when all your neighbors got hit by your shells.

>>33285072

I just figured, whats the difference between a 10 round AR and a Garand.

>2 rounds.

>>33285074
No. The mossberg will hold up better and longer without being cleaned. It really is the better option all around for your intended purpose.

>>33285074
But also if money isn't an issue, it wouldn't hurt to have both.

>>33285152
>>33285162

Ok thanks guys.

But essentially, if I hear someone breaking into my house, I grab the shotgun not the Garand.

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>>33279443
>you know where he is, he doesn't
>intruders fw

>>33285126
I hope you understand I was being facetious, anon.

>>33285147
A lot of guys (in this very thread, even) can lay out the pros of an AR for home defense. Honestly I haven't looked into it myself, but the impression I get is that the AR really comes into it's own as a HD gun when it's short-barrelled and surpressed.

>>33285195
Correct-o!

>>33279223

>Rifle/shotgun
Check

>long
SBR

>heavy
See above

>need a safe unless you live alone
Same with a handgun. A dresser or endtable is not a secure location

>Will deafen and blind you
Have fired mine in a small confined space and it sounded like I was underwater for a little over a minute. All fine now.

>handgun is small and light
So is an SBR.

>can be suppressed
A rifle can be suppressed easier and to greater effect

>night table
See above retard.

>will work very well
Not as well as a rifle.

>>33279223
semi auto shotguns are best
>buckshot hits wider are than bullets
>less chance of accidentally killing people in other rooms if walls are thin
>you can use it as a club if you run out of shells

>>33279223
>doesn't sleep with his guns
>locks them away in a safe or drawer

>>33285798
Semi auto shotguns are unreliable compared to a pump action or lever action shot gun.

>>33285845
it would be shitty if it jammed,but you can fire several shots at the burglar much faster than with a pump

Everyone keeps saying a 5.56 carbine is the best. Im inclined to agree.

However i think there's something to be said for a pistol, like if you lived in a really tiny apartment with tight corners.

If you have an sbr, than that could work. But a 16inch AR in a tiny apartment might be difficult to maneuver/greater chance of invader grabbing the barrel.

>can be suppressed so it won't deafen and blind you
>indoors
>in small home rooms

You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

>>33282533
this

>he doesn't live in a shoot house

>>33285845
yeah and a semi auto rifle is unreliable compared to a bolt action rifle but nobody defends their home with the latter if they can help it

>>33279223
Here's an article written by a SEAL (Dom Raso) on why semiauto rifles are the best for home defense.
http://thefederalist.com/2016/06/16/former-navy-seal-the-ar-15-is-a-citizens-best-defense-against-terrorism/

>>33279328
"Civilized states." Oh, you mean Bill of Rights violators?

I was planning on reading the whole thread, but you lost me here:
>>33279443
>They have less energy than 556, so i doubt, and if it's true, hollowpoints.

Have to agree with >>33280153

For a moment you had me thinking this thread was going somewhere.

would buckshot that is in great shape and has been stored well but is 20-30 years old still fire correctly and be good for hunting or self defense?

what would make 12 gauge buckshot shells weak? water im guessing?

>>33279223
Stopping power.

They all can kill. Problems are if you get into a firefight. I would say a shotgun is better for home defense. Pistol if you live in a small house maybe.

Loud is not bad if home defense, if there are a number of visitors, loud noises can stun and panic. .556 is my go to because I'm so comfy with it and don't have neighbors for miles. I also have a pretty long yard with dogs for the atf to deal with if they are invading.

>>33287615
I found my grandpa's Remington 878 and paper cased ammo in his basement years after he passed away. Cleaned and lubed the shotgun, and the rounds cycled no problem. Don't think they were buckshot, probably birdshot or target loads. But I was like 16 and never thought to take the shells apart and check.

>>33287829
But most shells/slugs will overpenetrate. Even birdshot will go through walls at times.

>>33282608
15 rd Hexmags, man. I run em all the time in NJ, and they usually cost around the same as any fagpul

File: Winchester_12pdx1_frontview.png (232KB, 600x442px) Image search: [Google]

232KB, 600x442px

is this stuff a meme? I actually enjoy shooting it sometimes, my 590A1 (also my go-to home defense) in particular seems to really like it. I live in a pretty large, 100+ year old apartment building and while the walls are fairly thick I'm not sure about launching slugs every which way.

>>33287925
Archery is is then.

>>33288009
>while the walls are fairly thick I'm not sure about launching slugs every which way.
You're gonna be ripping through walls my dude. But if you're shooting indoors that's just something to accept.

>>33280918
Sure you can. You may have noticed that's what soldiers do.

>>33279223
>Cannot suppress a rifle or shotgun
https://silencerco.com/

>>33288570
>police should roam the streets looking like soldiers
nothing could possibly go wrong there

>>33289731
Typically things already went wrong to warrant that but yes it is not helpful when not required for police and a matter of culture for citizens