Thumb safety.

the best safety is between your ears
dont be retarded and you wont shoot something you dont want to

>>33268612
>I refuse to believe

Then you're already beyond help. Countless videos of self defense shootings exists showing that manual safeties get people killed. You're an idiot my dude.

>>33268638

>citation needed

>>33268612
I used to perpetuate the memes you are talking about anon. Now I don't, I carry with a safety. The only caveat would be to make sure the safety is designed well.

USP safety, 1911 safety = you can actually toggle it off with your thumb while you draw.

on the other hand, like a ruger LCP for instance, or an S&W bodyguard, have such tiny, shitty stiff, flush plastic safeties that you cannot train with them. you can't fucking use it.

>>33268612
>Thumb safety
the only reason I don't have the tiny sig for ccw.

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>>33268612
>>33268624

Having been in the military, I never had any issue forgetting to turn off the safety of my weapon. Weapon on safe, even when surrounded by sand nigger civilians.

Now, every glock fag is acting like they are spec ops and need to rock a gun hot in a non war zone.
"best safety is your finger, ect"

People make mistakes, period. I've seen enough ND's in my life to know that even an experienced shooter can make a stupid mistake.

>>33268644
What is the best CC with a safety?

>>33268612
There is literally no benifit to a manual safety. the safety has a higher probability of inadvertent disengagement than the trigger does of being pulled. If your gun is carried in such a way that the trigger may be inadvertently pulled you are better off with a DAO gun.

Really you should just have a good holster in which case a safety is only a liability.

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>>33268659
I like compact or full size guns, I do not like subcompact guns. IMO USP compact 9mm is a great choice. there are others.

>>33268659
>best gun with safety
go to your LGS and pick them up. can you easily use the safety with you thumb? or is the shitty fucking thing impossible to use while on the draw (S&W shield, bodyguard)

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>>33268643

Go with a decocker.

>>33268612
its all preference as long as you exercise trigger discipline.

/thread

>>33268702
That's not an example of the safety getting him killed.

It's an example of practicing your draw and the importance of speed, but not the safety.

>>33268675
>>33268665

Actually, I really want a safety because I find myself trying to flip a thumb safety when using guns without them. Its actually very annoying.

I currently own a Beretta 92FS, but I would not want to carry that daily.

>>33268702
>doesn't even get the gun out of the holster.
>doesn't even aim it.
>the safety must have killed him.

i like to have a thumb safety
if you practice with a safety, it's literally no different than carrying without a safety

>tfw based condition 1 carry

>>33268724
>>33268720
why do you guys argue with idiots? don't you know that makes you an idiot too? why do I always see people on 4chan winding up to swing as hard as the fucking can at underhanded tosses like this?

>>33268744


This. Let morons have moronic opinions..there is no changing their minds because they don't want to actually accept that their opinion might be wrong.

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>>33268771
You're the moron and you are the one who's going to get killed, but it's your funeral, I guess. If you want to die because of your gun safety adding seconds to your response time, it's no skin off my back.

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>>33268624
>>33268659
for fuck's sake never mind your finger, what if it gets caught on something that isnt your finger

a safety, in my mind, prevents the trigger from being pulled because pulling the trigger is what causes the firearm to discharge. the very idea of a trigger safety is anathema to safety. in my tiny little mind.

picture unrelated to post content

>>33268802
>for fuck's sake never mind your finger, what if it gets caught on something that isnt your finger

Buy a holster.

>a safety, in my mind, prevents the trigger from being pulled because pulling the trigger is what causes the firearm to discharge. the very idea of a trigger safety is anathema to safety. in my tiny little mind.

If you don't trust yourself to keep your finger out of the trigger guard then either practice more or don't carry. It's good to be respectful of what a gun can do, but you're not respectful of guns, you're scared of them.

>>33268612

It's literally a moot point of you carry your weapon properly. If the first thing you do when you draw and aim the pistol is to disengage the safety, why have it?

Additionally, consider the manipulation that may have to occur in between drawing and eventually firing - you may spend minutes with the gun drawn, interacting with the threat. When should it be flicked on and off after leaving the holster - when the offender looks like they're disengaging or beginning to calm? Never? Will you remember to disengage again?

Simple is good (and safe). Noone shits on revolvers for this.

>>33268802
I guess you and all the other block fags here don't train at all with their weapons and believe that the boogy man is around every corner to get you. If you pay attention to your surroundings you can avoid 99.9% of issues with out pulling your firearm.

I've carried both with a safety and without. It's all about training and what you decide to carry that day. I D.C. a shield and sometimes a CM9.

Don't be a dick and don't act like a mall ninja and you'll stay alive.

>>33268801

>manual safety adds seconds to response time
>because disengaging the safety as you draw totally isn't a thing

>>33268905

"Glock leg" is a thing; the thumb strap or other object gets in the trigger guard while holstering, and then the dumbass who didn't properly holster his pistol shoots himself in the leg. Used to happen to cops on a semi-regular basis until more modern holster designs became popular.

>>33268801

Well it clearly bothers you, so I don't believe that for a second.

anti-safety fags say it's pointless if you're practicing proper trigger discipline, but the whole point of having a safety is carrying cocked and locked, which safety/decocker hammer guns can't do. surely the benefit of having every triggerpull being single action is worth SOMETHING right?

>>33268905
what if im struggling with an assailant because for what ever reason i didnt immediately shoot a person in the forehead

>>33268991
maybe i just value safety more than lethality

>>33269006

Agreed.

I assume the only gun block fan boys can afford is what they have and have to justify their purchase. It doesn't take seconds to disengage a safety. You do it during the draw when your engaging the grip.

>>33269021
then why the fuck are you even carrying a gun?
I bet you must also be a shoot-to-wound faggot.

>>33269011

What if your uncles name is Bob.

>>33268689
Am I the only person that doesn't have a problem toggling the safety on a Shield? Granted I've got big hands from my Slav heritage but it's not that much of a reach on the draw.

>>33268624
Two questions for you: Do you think that a Series 80 1911 with its grip safety pinned, its manual safety disengaged, and its hammer cocked back with a round in the chamber can be carried less safely than other designs? If so, then why is not commonly carried in this particular configuration?

>>33269021

You carry to stop the threat not to hold their hand after. If you want safety carry nothing and wear padded gloves and shoes so you can't hurt yourself.

>>33268702
The only thing this video demonstrates is that the victim was a retard who decided to carry IWB despite having his shirt tucked in. He might have not gotten shot if he had simply opted to carry a smaller and more practical gun in a pocket holster.

>>33269000
>"Glock leg" is a thing

No, it's a meme by definition. It's not a thing any more than hkleg or berettaleg.

>the thumb strap or other object gets in the trigger guard while holstering, and then the dumbass who didn't properly holster his pistol shoots himself in the leg. Used to happen to cops on a semi-regular basis until more modern holster designs became popular.

The "problem" was a combination of carelessness and low quality holsters.

>>33269011
Then you'd be thankful you didn't have to fuck with a manual safety to shoot your gun while grappling with someone.

>>33269030
I carry a glock 19. When I started, I wished it had a safety. I felt like it could go off at any moment or something and I was super cautious about it. A year later, and I'm now kinda glad it doesn't have one. I've trained myself to be very cautious with my trigger finger, and I now understand the mentality of the 'anti-safety fags'.

That said, I've been eyeing the sig p938 so I can wear lighter clothes in the summer. Now that I've gotten used to not having a safety it makes me feel a little weird about using one. I fondled it a bit at the store, and I was trying to figure out how I'd disengage the safety while doing a fast, decisive draw.

I may still get it. I'm torn between it and a glock 43 or kahr pm9. I really wish I could just borrow one for a few days and practice my draw. Anyway, that's my long-winded thought process on why I don't care for safeties... basically I got used to it, then got comfortable with it. It had nothing to do with me 'justfiying my purchase' because I'm so poor I can only afford a glock.

>>33269021
Then why carry a gun at all?

Nice false dichotomy btw

>>33268612
Most people think
>Safeties are an excuse for poor trigger discipline
Untrue. The actual benefits of a safety are as follows:

>Allows you to holster your gun safely, rapidly if necessary depending on the situation (you may need to go hands-on, run away and climb a wall, or provide medical aid to a victim immediately). You have to worry less about something getting caught in your trigger guard, such as your shirt or a drawstring, or consider a situation where you just grabbed your gun to use it without putting on your holster. You can now stuff it in your waistband without fear of glocklegging yourself.

>Allows you to pick up your gun safely, if you choose to leave it in a drawer, glovebox, safe, etc without the trigger guard protected in a holster. With something like a Glock, understand the holster IS the safety, you should never keep the gun outside of its holster when chambered unless it's being used. This makes the gun more versatile, as it doesn't need a holster, and can use a wider variety of holsters that aren't recommended for safetyless guns.

I got two more, hol up.

>>33268659
As a emt, I've been to plenty of calls were ppl ND. I've seen more ppl ND with guns with safeties, than I've seen with just a regular trigger safety. So you're literally a retarded faggot.

>>33268612
Comes down to preference. DA is enough of a safety for me to never worry about it. That's why I carry a P2000SK.

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>>33269076
>Allows you to holster your gun safely, rapidly if necessary depending on the situation (you may need to go hands-on, run away and climb a wall, or provide medical aid to a victim immediately)

>You may need to rapidly holster your gun so that you can run away and start climbing walls

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUtziaZlDeE

>>33269076
>If you drop your gun, it's safer to quickly pick up (if the safety is on when dropped). Not long ago tactical response training had a huge fiasco because one of their instructors threw someone's gun on the ground and kicked it around in the dirt as some sort of torture test. It caused an ND (into someone's car luckily). That brings me to my next topic.

>No, YOUR finger isn't the only thing that makes the gun go bang. Someone else's can. What if you have an idiot moment and some kid picks up your gun? What if you get attacked unexpectedly and some nog grapples you, feels your gun and grabs it? You either get an extra second or two before they figure it out, or they're a ghetto idiot who doesn't even know what a safety is. I'm any case you can pull your knife and gut the fucker while he fumbles with it. It's an extra form of retention. You won't be fumbling with it because you train properly. Something to consider, all cops use holsters with some sort of retention, commonly the ALS holster which requires your thumb to do something before the gun can come out. So millions of people have no issue doing something with their thump before the gun can fire, but somehow Glock fanboys feel like they're going to because they're dumb so safeties are useless? Not the case. Just deactivate on the draw, in fact you can set your grip consistently so every time you grip a gun your thumb is pressing down on where the safety should be. Not only does this give you a ledge for recoil control, it allows you to go from gun to gun (combat pick-ups) and always be able to use it successfully.

So to reiterate, NO it's not a replacement for trigger discipline. If you're gun is out, the safety should be off before you even reach your ready position. So you have all the benefits above for honestly not a lot of trade off. For concealed carry, I absolutely recommend a safety. For duty use, I'm undecided. The additional form of retention could be critical, so I lean towards safety.

>>33269070

Like I said before, it's all about training. If you want to stay consistent, go with the 43 but I prefer the pm9 since it's a little smaller and hides easy even while just having on swim shorts.

You will have to re-learn follow through if your not used to DAO. It's a great smooth pull and light but long on all Kahr pistols.

>>33269099
You have a far greater chance of ND'ing than you have for needing the .01 seconds it takes to flip the safety off (0 seconds if you have proper discipline and flip it off on the draw or use the technique I described here >>33269114 by using the safety switch as a shelf (obviously for slide mounted safeties only).

In fact, you have a far greater chance of ND'ing than you have of ever getting into a shooting. I think your anecdote is false, you probably deal with dumb nogs ND'ing their hi points.

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>ITT: retard toughguys that think safeties are for pussies and you're a real maaaan~~~ only if you carry something like a glock/m&p with a dangerously light trigger

You're taking that one scene from black hawk down waaaaay too fucking seriously.
>finally ND's
>"hurrr it'z a training issue!"

Go watch someone like Ron Avery work a 1911 and see if he's "slow".

>>33269114
>
Thanks, this is making me feel a little better about the p938. I'd just have to practice grabbing it with my thumb ready to disengage the safety. I wonder, though, if I'd get so accustomed to it that I will absentmindedly disengage the safety every time I pull it out... Hm, well, that'd be on me if I did it.

>>33268702
Why did he start chasing that guy before he drew? And why did he intervene in the first place?

>>33269135
Yeah, but your hypothesis hinges on your assumption that a manual safety will make an average person statistically less likely to ND, which there is no evidence of.

>>33269038

No, I've got one too and have the same experience.

>>33269156
Do it enough and it will be ingrained into your subconcious. Like switching off the safety when coming on target with an AR then putting it back on safe when you're coming off target. I shoot DA/SA pistols and I don't have to think about decocking when coming off target. A manual safety on a pistol is no different.

>>33269138
>something like a glock/m&p with a dangerously light trigger

dumb fuddposter.

>Go watch someone like Ron Avery work a 1911 and see if he's "slow".

It would be slower if he drew from iwb. And someone with a similar level of training probably could draw and fire a glock more quickly.

>>33268612
Honestly choose what you prefer. CCW is all about what gun you are willing to shoot and train on constantly. The more you use it the better off you will be. If you're interested in actual facts take a look at Police Departments when they switched to glocks. The rate of NDs increased exponentially for the first few years. The result was that they refined the glock design by increasing trigger pull weight for PDs and then instituted new training.

>>33269156
Set your grip high on the frame, you're supposed to anyway. The shelf thing works and helps with recoil, I even put my support thumb on the front lip of the frame now.

One of the fundamentals of marksmanship is consistency, one aspect of that being consistent grip. Always bring the gun to ready in the same way with the same grip position. See if that works for disengaging the safety on the draw with your gun in particular.

As for absentmindedly disengaging, I use a level II retention ALS holster for duty. My thumb has to go downward and backward before the gun can come out. I have enough reps to do it without thinking, but I don't count on doing it automatically. I may have to grab from an awkward angle, and sometimes the ALS guard comes down on its own if my vest pushes it, which makes it feel like my thumb isn't in the right spot. Be ready in case you fumble, that goes for anything. That's what led to me developing the shelf method. Be conscious that when you switch back to shooting a Glock it's going to negate the slide stop, so point your right thumb upward when you shoot one.

I'm kind of autistic about this stuff if you can't tell.

>>33269161
The average person is a moron, they probably use it as a substitute for trigger discipline, exactly what I advised against. But we are initiated, we train and abide by the fundamentals, at least I'd hope.

>>33269207
>The result was that they refined the glock design by increasing trigger pull weight for PDs

That was only certain departments like NYPD, and it had nothing to do with ND'ing. It was because they wanted to make the officers take extra time to think about whether they really needed to shoot their target and take aim more carefully.

>>33269229
They literally had an exponential increase in NDs hence the higher pull and more training. This is well known.

>>33269240
This is true but only NYPD increased the trigger weight. It has to do with decision making and jerk reactions.

I can think of one example during my building search training. We had to go through and get bystanders out and deal with the threats in a low light setting. I ended up shooting a guy who was raising his hands because I thought he was raising a gun, plus I had simmunition gloves on which are fuckhuge and took up more space in the trigger guard. But excuses aside a heavier trigger pull could've prevented that. It's a good thing it was just training because I only pop noggins.

Maybe a safety could help in that type of situation, if you keep it on while clearing and flip it off when you've decided to shoot. I would advise against it because that sounds like using it as a crutch for trigger discipline, but the methods you use are up to you. The safety will always make your platform more versatile.

>>33269005

What bothers me?

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I wish I had gotten the decocker variant.
I never carry cocked and locked.

>>33269240
>They literally had an exponential increase in NDs

Well yes, in certain departments, but that was a training issue since they had poor trigger discipline because usually they transitioned from guns with safeties or double action autos. I was referring specifically to your claim that they increased the pull weight to fight ND's, when in fact that was intended to reduce shootings full stop.

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>>33268612
No disadvatage to a manual saefty. BTW Dumb Grip in photo, always a thumb over grip.
Have shot Glock and 1911 in competition for 20+ years. No difference in draw times between them. Never failed to disengage safety ona 1911. Bettter photo.

>>33268801
>seconds
>flicking a lever with your thumb
>seconds

post guns

>>33268612
if the only reason you havent slammed a round into your leg is that you have a manual safety on your gun, youre too retarded to own guns

>>33269460
is this almost the same as people making the difference between striker and DA/SA trigger out to be some other dimensional level differences while in all honesty, they're just lazy to put in some extra time and effort?

>What if you have an idiot moment and some kid picks up your gun?
I feel like if a kid is too young to figure out a basic fucking thumb safety when 4 year old african children can figure out one on an AK, then they probably can't successfully cock a hammer or overpower a 7+ pound trigger pull on a DA or DA/SA gun.

>>33269467
How does a striker fired trigger take any more time or effort?

>>33268612
US army insist on having thumb safety.

>>33269464
>actual mechanical failure
>bad holster quality
>bad draw
>bad re-holstering

Literally the 4 main ways to have a round in your leg. All of which, by the way, are really bad even if you have a manual safety being that last line of defense.

>>33269472
It really doesn't, but there's a buttload of people who swear up and down over either. Fuddautism even goes hard into
>You gotta have a consistence trigger pull everytime! otherwise, you might kill everyone in a 7 block radius!
And this applies to the DA pull to a DA/SA gun, which also leads to the "cocked and locked" portion.

>>33269480
3 of the 4 listed are your fault if they happen.
Show me one instance of a modern handgun lacking a manual safety that discharged because of a mechanical failure without someone or something pulling the trigger.

>>33268659
This.

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>>33269513
Your move, wiseguy.

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>>33268644
This is so true, if you are going to carry a gun with a safety it must be easy to reach and use.

I honestly would only have a safety on a carry gun if I was getting a benefit from it, such as being able to safely carry a hammer fired gun cocked.
Once you train to make the safety disengagement a part of your draw (I personally train to disengage as soon as I start to rotate the gun after it clears the holster) you are literally no slower than someone who isn't using one.

It's entirely a manner of training, da/sa, striker, cocked and locked, they are all valid and effective carry conditions. No matter how you carry a lack of training and a lack of situational awareness will get you killed.

>>33269550
but the problem with that gun was NOT working, not working too well

>>33269513
so you're implying that bad habits is ok?

>>33269453
You can see in my webm that the man who is shot aims his gun, then has to look at it to undo the safety before he can fire. This lets his assassin run away.

>>33269564
I never implied that.

>>33269550
You're not wrong. Too bad nobody buys remshit.

>>33269103
>DA is enough of a safety for me to never worry about it.
Same. Px4 here. A heavy first trigger pull makes for a damn good safety.

>>33268612
You are a fool, OP. It's a scientific fact that all human beings are too stupid to learn how to use a manual safety, and that every person that ever carried a gun with a manual safety was killed because of it. Don't do it, OP.

>>33268702
Fucking a. See all those other people he doesn't view as a threat ? The ones not drawing a pistol on him ? He runs right past them because they don't appear to be a threat. Why The hell didn't he draw after he had run past him and just shoot him in the back like a sane person

>>33269981
The issue I have with these CCW guys is that they don't grasp the tactical aspect. If that nog has his weapon out and ready, then it's stupid to draw down on him, especially when he's running.

Also, I don't know about you guys, but if I'm in a seedy part of town where I'm likely to get robbed, I'm either going to take it out and be ready (depends on time of day), or I'm gripping it in my pocket.

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>>33268612
Best thumb safety, reporting

>Inb4 muh Taurus
I'll put your meatball up against my Taurus, any day

>>33269038
I don't either man.

Manipulation of safeties or improperly disengaging them are a training issue.

>>33268802
what is this gif from?

>>33269076
>>33269114


Those are good points anon. I never actually thought about it that way. Definitely opened my mind to the idea of a safety.

I carry a glock 26 and have been carrying similar guns without safeties like my glock and pocket revolver.

But after reading what you wrote I might not feel such an aversion to buying a gun with a safety.

Though before I carry it I will have to put in countless hours of training to disengage the safety to the point of muscle memory.

>>33268802
What the hell? What is this from?

>>33268612
There is nothing wrong with a manual safety if you are willing to train with it. Sweeping off the safety while drawing should be muscle memory.

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>>33270373
It's fake. Did you really think someone decided to film a mass suicide in artsy black and white color with highly styled lighting and a scripted camera shake just as everyone falls down?

>>33270421
Can you draw on someone behind you? No. Everyone just practices drawing in front of them. You need to be ready to respond to a threat from any direction. It's unreasonable to train to switch off the safety for all those draws.

>>33270440
>Responds but doesn't give an answer.
No, but I didn't know if it was from a weird movie or was some sort of independent short film.

>>33270440
Shut up Skinner.

>>33269056
Shitskin in video moved for no reason while fumbling instead of calmly lifting shirt and drawing.

No training + no practice + no self-discpline = bad result.

>>33269099
That's because many of them carry "DA ready" which is uncocked and unlocked. Obviously way less safe than cocked and locked or trigger safety.

>>33270449
Are you literally retarded? Safety comes off as soon as you clear leather. What you do after that is unchanged.
>inb4 hurr nobody uses leather
It's an expression.

Carry a single action revolver with an empty chamber. It's the only way to be sure.

>>33268612
The secret is practice.

If you have a manual thumb safety, you should be okay as long as you practice your draw hundreds of times, with flipping off the safety as part of your routine.

>>33268638
The only people that get killed that way are people who didn't practice enough with their draw.

Glocktards bought the marketing hook, line, and sinker

a manual safety isn't a disadvantage provided you practice flipping it off on draw

>>33268645
I carry it. The thumb safety is so natural to toggle while drawing I've never even thought about having to. Your thumb will hit it as you settle your grip.

Of course, I've never had to draw in a self defence situation but I can tell you it won't be a problem.

>>33268659
Any gun with a 1911 style safety, maybe even the mini 1911s like the P938 from SIG.

>>33270594
>The only people that get killed that way are people who didn't practice enough with their draw.
Bingo. And those kinds of people are in more danger of NDing into their dick then their of dying because they couldn't deactivate a thumb safety on their pistol quickly enough. This whole debate is so fucking stupid.

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>>33268732
>tfw condition one carry
>tfw Glockfag showing off his fawtys gives me shit, then immediately pulls his out and has to rack the slide

>>33268659
>What is the best CC with a safety?
The M&P series have a great thumb safety. The P320 looks promising too, though they're still rare apparently

>>33269071
>Nice false dichotomy btw
replies with false dichotomy

>>33268624
t. future glock leg sufferer

>>33268905
>If you don't trust yourself to keep your finger out of the trigger guard then either practice more or don't carry. It's good to be respectful of what a gun can do, but you're not respectful of guns, you're scared of them.

That's not the fucking problem, retard. Most CCW ND result from the trigger catching on something and then ordinary movements engage and pull the trigger. This has nothing to do with keeping your finger out of the trigger guard.

>>33269161
You can simultaneously practice both good trigger discipline and use a mechanical safety. It's not mutually exclusive

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>>33268659
THIS!! IL NatGuard agrees

>>33270322
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V/H/S/2

>>33269044
Cause the 80 series is the worst, second only the schwartz, and most people that carry 1911s can't be bothered to pin or band the grip safety. Novak's ANSWER mod is pretty nice.

However carrying cocked and unlocked would be viable if there was any consistency between 1911 manufacturers. Besides, most 1911 guys train to ride the safety anyway so they may as well use it

>>33269070
I've shot the 938 a bit and I'm not a fan. If I actually owned one I would HAVE to leave the safety off because I can't reliably or quickly hit the safety. I would much rather buy a polymer gun without a safety that doesn't spit the first round of the mag out, than fills my hand better and doesn't cost so goddammn much for no real benefit

A kydex holster that covers the trigger guard and Trigger discipline

The gun will not shoot you in the dick

>>33269099
So how many calls and what were the model of guns, since you remember so clearly and have been tallying it all in your statistical notebook

>>33270449
>Can you draw on someone behind you? No.

Holy shit have you never seen any of the training where they specifically cover drawing to shoot a threat behind you?

>>33270497
Its from VHS 2.

>>33268612
It's a completely pointless debate. If you actually are serious about CCW and training, the safety is not needed, but it also isn't a hindrance.
The time difference when drawing a gun with/without safety is negligible.
I'd go for a gun without safety just because I personally prefer it. If you like a manual thumb safety go for it and don't look back.
Maybe when you feel confident enough you might just get a gun without one.
>>33269157
It was in brazil, guy was an off duty cop working security in a market.
And here cops don't get much training at all, and they generally aren't very smart.

>>33268801
This also seems to be in Brazil. Poor training, stupid guy tried to draw on a drawn gun.
Safety had no relevant effect on the final outcome. Pistol seems to be a taurus PT 9xx variant.

>>33268612
The way I see it the only people who bitch about a thumb safety are those who don't want to put in the range time to perfect the muscle memory on it.

>>33268612
Maybe. You need to train to draw to build muscle memory so that you disengage the safety before squeezing the trigger assuming you carry with the safety engaged. Because if you aren't accustomed to flipping the safety as you draw then you're gonna have a bad time.

>>33268612
I really wish we'd go back to thumb safeties as standard. They're second nature to deactivate on the draw, they remove the possibility of worn leather holsters pulling the trigger when inserting the gun, they do away with annoying and pointless trigger safeties that make triggers feel like pinchy shit, and maybe this is just my personal ergonomic preference, but it seems that handguns without frame-mounted safeties tend to place the slide release lever so far back that it interferes with my preferred high grip.

>>33270252
>>Inb4 muh Taurus
PT92s are one of the only things I would buy and trust from Taurus. License made on original Beretta tooling to Beretta specs.

>>33273488
Yup. They even purchased the workers' contracts.

Make sure you replace the shitty stock mags, though. Mec gar makes a really good aftermarket for cheap.

>>33269114
I have a 4.25lb trigger and a safety. My gun sometimes gets put into a bag or a glove compartment without a holster. My reflex on draw/aim is to disengage safety as it comes up. All I need to do is accidentally drop my bag or get it hit and get a ND into someone.

>>33268801
>your gun safety adding seconds to your response time


posts video of guy being chased down by guy with gun already drawn and shooting guy in the back.

Not a good video for your point.

Plus the car pulling away rolls over his ankle.... that guys day just sucked bad.

>>33270803
Never said it was. But that doesn't mean a manual safety makes an average person less likely to ND.

>>33270676
He's retarded for not carrying with one in the chamber, but it's hardly slower.

>>33270628
Extra fine movements during a high adrenaline activity like shooting someone are a serious disadvantage, practiced or not, especially when they're completely unnecessary and provide no additional safety.

>>33270718
I'd love to see some evidence to support these claims.

>>33272411
You're right, I'd rather spend that range time drawing and shooting at targets.

>>33275673
>You're right, I'd rather spend that range time drawing and shooting at targets.
>Too lazy to thumb the safety down as you come up to the target

>>33274982
That's dumb and dangerous too. What if the safety gets bumped off. Just leave chamber empty and you can do that with a glawk.