Why did the Soviets replace this beauty with the awful Makarov?

>>33235250
They're both good guns. The makarov is a well loved pistol for its simplicity and its extreme reliability, things the Russians love in their guns.

>>33235392
/thread

>>33235392
but the Makarov's caliber is shit

File: GSh-18_06.jpg (2MB, 2250x1500px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2250x1500px

>>33235250
I'm not sure they really replaced it with the Makarov, according to wikipedia anyway both the Tokarev and the Makarov are still being used to an extent. As a standard sidearm however it looks like the GSh-18 is replacing both of them.

>>33235487
Damn that thing is ugly. Looks like a metallic water pistol.

>>33235487
That slide looks like something a boy scout would carve out of a block of wood with their pocketknife.

WW2 anecdotes and testing showed that the 7.62x25 was simply too much for what you needed in a pistol.

So they did some testing and figured a 9x18 blow back sub compact was all the gun you needed in a sidearm. It was simpler to make, more robust.

AK47 development also made SMGs using hot rounds like the Tok, obsolete.

>>33235642
People complain about how anemic pistols are, they make a good one and say it's too much???

>>33235750
Keep in mind that these are military personnel, not basement dwelling k/unts.

>>33235454
good thing handguns dont matter at all

>>33235792
they do for police

>>33235623
what would you expect of slavshit in the time of modern pistol designs?
It's ubiquitously russian

>>33235250
Hey now there is nothing awful about the makarov. I own both the mak and the tok(also own a usp) and the mak is my favorite. It has never failed on me and it is pinpoint accurate. I love 7.62x25 but 9x18 is certainly enough to get the job done.

File: 9mm_Yarygin_pistol_PYa.jpg (2MB, 2250x1450px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2250x1450px

>>33235487
I thought this was the standard pistol in Russian military now?

>>33235993
Russia is very strange with handguns. Basically they have a big mishmash of pistols they issue out.

Speaking of Makarov's, should I get a Polish p64, p83, or a hungarian ap63?

>>33236112
A makarov.

>>33236112
A Makarov

P83 and P64 are fine too, but Makarov is king

>>33235487
That thing looks like it has fetal alcohol syndrome.

File: IMG_0442.jpg (95KB, 660x438px) Image search: [Google]

95KB, 660x438px

Step aside!

Best soviet pistol coming thru.

>>33235625
How do you think it got prototyped?

When they got a working version they sand-cast it as-is and rolled with it.

>>33235800
Not when you live in a country where the average squad car has a 30mm autocannon and tracks and everybody carries an AK variant.

>>33235250

OP pic looks like a really bad 1911 clone.

>>33236215
It basically is, except 20 years after everyone else gave up cloning it.

>>33236182
Looks ugly

>>33236215
With a fucking amazing trigger and fairly good caliber.

Seriously, the biggest problem is the fact that it's not drop safe.
>>33235250
See above, coupled with the fact that handguns as a front line weapon and not a security/agent weapon are pointless.

I swear the Makarov was designed kinda like the P320 with CC and service capabilities firmly in mind.
It's just big enough to be great and just small enough to be perfect for CC and the cartridge is just hot enough to be worth a damn (not the best) whilst also having fairly light recoil for easier followup shots.

Still, the Toks trigger is pure sex.

All in all it was the right decision for a nation to adopt a smaller DA/SA handgun like the Makarov, however as a Civillian target shooter the Tokerev is in fact the nicer of the two.

>>33236192
Just reading that makes me want to squat on the sidewalk.

>>33236215
Also, it's not a 1911 clone, it's an FN M1907 (I think? Maybe a 1904 one. Whatever the FN .380 thingy was) clone that was built around 7.62 Tok and the amazing trigger (that's sadly not drop safe) pack that Fedor Tokerev invented.

>>33236300

Don't forget your Addidas gear, comrade.

>>33236283
You make it sound like the Makarov is a well made gun.

>>33236407
They are, at least the germans.

>>33236407
What about it isn't well made? Thing is robust as fuck

>>33236407
It is.
The mechanism is damn near impossible to fuck up, and it runs like a fat kid at an all you can eat buffet.
And no most of the machining is meh at best but the reason it's so nice is that the machining doesn't HAVE to be great for it to function right.

The Makarov is cheaper to manufacture, both in terms of machining operations and amount of metal used. More pistols can be made faster with less steel.

It is also considerably simpler and uses weaker ammunition, which means more robustness and less breakage. In the rare event of a breakage it can also be much more easily repaired. The light weight and small size are ergonomic bonuses.

>>33236549
How does weaker ammunition lead to a more robust pistol

>>33236737
Smaller explosions mean less force acting on components, making it harder to damage the gun

>>33236737

If a small asian woman punches you it will cause less bruising than if a large professional boxer does.

>>33236112
cz 82. Best makarov

>>33235250
9mm did better in NKVD activities and thus adopted a 9mm handgun even though API 7.62tok was a thing.

>>33236283
Drop safety not an issue when Russians carried it without one in the chamber which is why it has a single action trigger and safety

>>33236283
>I swear the Makarov was designed kinda like the P320 with CC and service capabilities firmly in mind.

Pretty much yeah, With the advent of nuclear weapons the Soviets didn't see the pistol as having a very large role in military action so they designed something that could be jack-of-all-trades.

>>33236837
the makarov is the of the simplest service pistols ever fielded. the Cz82 is one of the most complicated pistols Cz ever produced. they're not as similar as you think.

>>33237072
how is it complicated? Is there a bunch of Czech magic somewhere that I'm not aware of? Teardown takes literally 10 seconds for cleaning.

>>33235625

The slide grip makes sense. When you are operating it with thick gloves in -40Celsius on the tundra.

>>33236441
>fat kids
>running

>>33238356
Look at how rough and unfinished the front part is though.

>>33238627

Yeah. I am not saying the thing is pretty. Maybe they had spare manufacturing capacity at a tractor factory somewhere.

>>33238645
All they would've had to do was have some unskilled plebs working on deburring / polishing everything up and it could've looked fine. I've never understood Commies and their affinity for rough weapons with tooling marks left all over them. Don't commies love coming up with useless shit for the peasants to do? Think of all the peasants who could've earned their bread rations by making soviet / chink firearms beautiful over the years.

File: c62140df7fb54b25a69282dc4bcdb55d.jpg (721KB, 940x626px) Image search: [Google]

721KB, 940x626px

I think the 6P9 is pretty sexy.

>>33236182
Now there's a sexy fucking Stetchkin.

I'd settle for a civilian legal semi version.

>>33238726
When the Russians do silencers they do it right.

File: 1443260344[1].jpg (158KB, 787x600px) Image search: [Google]

158KB, 787x600px

>>33238674

Actually they did address the issue eventually. The GSh 18 started out as a clunky KGB design, but apparently they liked it so much that versions were made for the civilian market as well, as the 'GSH 18 Sport'. I can't tell the various Sport versions apart but to my eye this is pretty sexy.

>>33238726
are these easy to buy in US? cant find it online anywhere

File: 1478570770939.png (129KB, 314x278px) Image search: [Google]

129KB, 314x278px

>>33235487
>pvt. Ivan just decided to take a fucking mill bastard to the front end
Every time

>>33237283
Try detail stripping it and then you will know hell.

>>33238674

To address the other part of your comment. Communist factories, now a thing of the past, were in theory fiercely utilitarian. There were production goals to meet,'markets' to fill with goods, worker ranks to give jobs to. In some respects it worked; unemployment was low, people were fed, the armies had weapons and equipment. You might have a lowly office job, your wife was not working, the kitchen shelves had boring food on it. Your chilly apartment was lit with few lamps and the TV and radio was the pits. Your wife spent half the day in shop queing. Getting a car was a ten year family plan. But you did have a food, a job, a home - there are many in our modern world who have less!

Of course, state control never works out well in the long run. Factories produced third rate product, who worked none the less because the design was made to last, not to be pretty. Like their weapons. Designs were hardly ever upgraded. Machinery wore out but were kept on the production line. Factory output numbers were wildly inflated by the managers. Workers had near zero motivation for giving a damn, but had not gone so low that they were actively sabotaging the production.

>>33236215
Both had the same common ancestor

>>33236259
You're mistaken.

File: 1480590616015.png (200KB, 547x402px) Image search: [Google]

200KB, 547x402px

>>33238919
>there are many in our modern world who have less!

and many who could have more if we liberated them from the selfishness of the state and truly set the markets free

File: image.jpg (60KB, 640x427px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 640x427px

>>33238726
Kek, that silencer is fantastic.

>>33235454
All handguns are sucky weapons. They're not meant to be primaries.

File: image.jpg (20KB, 500x314px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 500x314px

>>33239558
Unless it's a .45

>>33238674
The reason of shit finish is a lack of weapon market. GSh-18 was resigned as spec ops service pistol and for 7N21 and 7N31 cartridges. So take your anti-armor handgun, man, and go clear some terrorist treat. Good finish comes later. That was the point, but yeas, it looks a fucking shame. And, by the way, we're not commies more than 25 years, shithead.

>>33238759
When all American soldiers are deaf, the Russians shall leave their bunkers and clean up.