Are pistons a meme?

>>33225530
What?... Not everything is a meme anon. It's a viable operating system for a closed explosion.

>>33225541
>Not everything is a meme

>>33225530
They are if you're putting them on an ar.

>>33225530
No. Piston is legitimately a better system in both terms of reliability, sustained fire, and general durability. It's just very expensive so most people don't think it's worth the cost when a di gun is good enough.
But hey, don't take my word for it. Don't take /k/'s word for it in general. Don't be a sheep. Do research yourself.

>>33225562
IKR, anything that there is a name for is a meme.

>>33225819
While technically correct, I'd advise against making the fact that all transmitted and mutable ideas, including but not limited to language, social strutures, forms of governance, science, engineering, and formalized math are memes, a meme.

meme responsibly.

ps. Pistons ARs are a fad, but the priciest ones work well enough that it doesn't really matter. I'm sure a 416 is a fine rifle.

>>33225530
For the AR15? Yes, it doesn't do anything substantially better to be worth most people's time.

It's a bit better for suppressors in that gas doesn't come back in the same way, this is legit the best argument at the moment, and even then you could wear goggles.

It doesn't heat up quite as fast, but do you often shoot your gun until it becomes too hot? Is it something you see realistically becoming a problem in an emergency? You might just be better off with a Hbarrel.

The typical claim is that the piston is cleaner, which mostly is toted by muhreens and other welfare queens salty that their drill bullies them to detail clean their rifles to pristine condition on a regular basisbas a way of disciplining them (this is the reason mouth breathing meatheads think the M16 requires a lot of cleaning, when it actually doesn't). In reality, it's irrelevant, yes, gas goes inside the bolt-carrier, but most people don't understand that this is accounted for, that it's hardened and designed to take this. The bolt-carrier on an AR15 is essentially a gasblock, and will handle being dirty, it's little different from cleaning the gasblock on a piston rifle. The prime example is the "Filthy Fourteen" which has been fired for +36000rds without ever being cleaned and it hasn't had a single malfunction. It's an extreme, but it serves to illustrate how the piston being cleaner is a non-argument.

>>33226016
The 416 is good because H&K manufactures it and makes sure it's good. Truth is that the gun would be just as excellent still if it had a normal gas system, while being cheaper, lighter, having less felt recoil and better accuracy potential. Alas, short-stroke pistons is all H&K knows for gas operated rifles.

On the other hand, the 416 satisfyingly fills the niche for those SpecOps dudes that actually WOULD use suppressors a lot or do a lot of bursts and sustained fire.

>>33226261
you seem to know smething anon

>less felt recoil
i never understood this. why should the recoil be less on a DI-system? shouldnt the piston system have less recoil because it weighs more?

>>33225530
Personally I greatly prefer pistons for ease of maintenance compared to DI.

>>33226016
>I'm sure a 416 is a fine rifle.
It's overgaaaaassssed. There are better piston ARs

>>33226727
piston system doesnt necessarily weigh more. total weight being equal, a piston system usually have more moving mass, which increases felt recoil

>>33226743
all military rifles are overgassed, its a feature

>>33226747
Absolutely, but the 416 takes it too far, it's too much. It's TOO much. It is going to beat itself into an early grave and kind beautiful armorers will have to pick up the pieces.

>>33226750
>It is going to beat itself into an early grave
it doesnt though. it has a longer service life than an m4. mostly due to higher quality steels/hardening. but its designed to be overgassed, and it doesnt suffer from it. only issue is increased recoil.

I shit 10k through my issue 416, no issues what so ever. no wear in buffer due to non existing carrier tilt. no peening of carrier key due to overgassing, no burned out rifling and no cracks in bolt.

>>33226789
what happens if I purposely overgas my DI by tuning my adjustable block all the way out? do I get to experience all the 416 negatives with none of the positives?

>>33225530
All gas systems are a meme

>>33226727
perceived recoil is less because the AR-15 isn't DI. It has an internal piston of the expanding gas variety which is inline with the bore of the rifle. The "kick" short stroke piston guns have is because they impact the carrier off the axis of the bore itself with a metal rod.

If the AR-15 was DI like the AG-42 or MAS rifles it would experience a similar push but since it isn't the gun has much less felt recoil.

>>33226816
Likely not. Excess gas will be vented outside via the bolt carrier holes. That's why the AR-15 is "gassy" when suppressed.

Does the AR platform use a piston or DI?

>>33227223
There are no DI AR-15s as far as I know. The original design uses an inline internal piston for operation.

>>33225541
>>33225761
>Hurr durr I've never been taught that the stonner gas system brings recoil fully inline with the transverse axis of the gun virtually removing muzzle climb
>I've never heard of carrier tilt causing premature wear to the receiver
Sorry but we still haven't created a better gas system then the stonner system.

>>33225530
Define "meme"

>>33227281

Tappet, bruv.

>>33226743
Overgassing helps cycling. For instance, Vepr shotguns are rather overgassed so they can eat weaksauce birdshot without issue, compare to the Saiga shotguns, which have issues with numerous loadings unless you ream the gas port.

The receiver of a Vepr is also strong and reinforced like on an RPK, to make sure the gun can take it

As for rifles? Ppppppfffffffuck if I know, but I'm willing to bet the 416 ejects calmer than a HK33 which spits brass like 20ft behind you (hyperbole).

>>33226816
You'll maybe feel gas on your face, and your brass will eject at a sharp angle.

It may or may not wear on your buffer spring, couldn't tell you that part.

>>33227281
>the carrier tilt meme
Please anon, maybe it was true for shitty designed piston ar, but not from most quality built ones

>>33227458
hk's do have carrier tilt. even if they didnt its still adding weight to solve a non existent problem.

>>33227458
>I...it's a meme
Then why did HK add a fuckhuge reinforced buffer tube to protect the lower then?
>T...that's how they fixed it
no

The reality is any short stroke AR-15 is an abortion running on borrowed time.

>>33227223
I like to call it a "gas-expansion" system (to paraphrase Eugene Stoner himself), as gas is taken in from the tube through the key, and then fills the inside of the bolt carrier. Inside the bolt carrier, the gas is allowed to expand, this forces the bolt to rotate and unlock, the gas is then vented out the side through the little holes in the bolt carrier, then starting the travel of the bolt carrier group (thus extracting, ejecting, cocking the hammer, hitting the buffer, then coming back to pick up the eventual next round, etc).

The only thing the AR15 has in common with DI is that they have very much a similar gas tube, a very long and thin tube with no piston inside it.
Whereas an AR15 takes the gas into it's bolt carrier in a controlled fashion, on a DI rifle, the gas does nothing but push the bolt carrier backwards, much like the short-stroke piston would do on a rifle like an AR18 (G36, 416, AUG, F2000, etc), however on a DI rifle, the gas just then goes all over the place afterwards, in a kind of uncontrolled manner. It works, but it has it's drawbacks.

Blow forward is most superior system

>>33227242
I suppose maybe a piston AR could perhaps be converted to act like an old Ljungman DI rifle, but why would you.

>>33227281
I think the first guy you responded to just said that short-stroke pistons is a viable way to make a rifle, not specifically that short-stroke AR15s is a good idea.

>>33225530
On an AR?

Absolutely.

>>33225738
>>33227580
Anything can be a meme if you put it in/on/near an AR. They're meme guns.
>6.5mm
The future of ballistics.
>6.5 grendel
MEME!
>weapon light
Good for target ID.
>AR mounted weapon light
MALL NINJA MEME!
>nutjob with an AK shoots up a place
A grave tragedy. #notallmuslins
>nutjob with an AR shoots up a place
BAN ASSAULT MEMES!

>>33227458
It's not an issue of quality but a matter of design.

The piston physically pushes the carries down causing it to wear on the buffer tube, buffer spring, bolt carrier and bolt itself, killing the rifle.

Now if you were to add guide rails to control the tilting motion, say like those found on the AR18... Oh wow! It's almost like Stoner actually realized how shitty of an idea it was to have a piston on the AR15 and took that into consideration when designing the AR18.

>>33227475
hks do not have carrier tilt, the bolt have bigger rear end that prevent it

>>33227481
the buffer is not fuckhueg and reinforced to solve the problem

>The reality is any short stroke AR-15 is an abortion running on borrowed time.

stoner system is a short stroke piston you drooling retard

>>33227699
most quality built piston ARs are also quality designed. and does not have carrier tilt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Id_soYaAm8

>>33227741
>the bolt have bigger rear
BCG not bolt

>>33225530
>a meme?
underage detected

>>33227741

Guys worried about buffer wear from carrier tilt are dorks parroting memes from 2013.

Uneven bolt wear from the off-center strike of the piston does happen though. I have a piston gun (not HK sadly) and I do see more wear at 4000 rounds on my lower lugs than the upper ones.

>>33225562
calm down Stirner

"Is X a meme?" should result in an automatic ban.

>>33227741
>hks do not have carrier tilt
Yes, they do. It's impossible to reduce it to levels of guns designed as external piston guns without changing the carrier and the receiver.

For ARs
Yes
Otherwise if it was built around it
No

>>33228428

You're technically correct (the best kind) but you'll be replacing the buffer tube well after you break your first lug.

File: literally a meme.png (168KB, 676x397px) Image search: [Google]

168KB, 676x397px

>>33225530
>>33225562
>>33225819
>>33226016
>>33227123
>>33227458
>>33227294
>>33227481
>>33227598
>>33228247
>>33228428
>>33228496

>>33225530
kys