Shotgun ammo design

>>33190361
>defensive shotgun loads have remained essentially the same
Maybe for normies.

I have...
Dragonbreath
Rocksalt expresso
Tungsten slugs
Magnesium party poppers
Beanbag funbags

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>>33190393
>no bees

>>33190568
TWF I can't shoot nig nogs with bees and watch him stung to death.

>>33190593
how about a pheromone that attracts bees and make them attack?

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>>33190361

>>33190659
These need to be made into 3" shells with more buckshot behind them

>>33190361
could you make a giant RIP round? Functions as a slug while it's flying and rips whatever it hits apart

>>33190702
OH GOD PLEASE YES

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>>33190702
There are several brands of expanding slug with a 2"+ expanded diameter that still meet FBI penetration requirements. Pic related.

Buck n' ball has been around since the days of flintlocks, but recent loads like the PDX1 finally are throwing something resembling a pattern.

Things like improved wads (Flite Control et al) are giving lethal buckshot patterns out to 130 yards.

Shotgun shells have come just as far as rifle and pistol rounds.

>>33190739
>>33190706
>>33190749
N U T
U
T

>>33190706
>>33190739
M A X I M U M E X P A N S I O N

>>33190706
>>33190739
I wanna see a wound from this
also

>2017 not hand loading rounds with sodium hydroxide
shiggydiggy

>>33190770
Imagine someone using a 3" diameter hole saw.

And only running it 2" deep.

>>33190749

What expanding slugs are gud?

I can see them being more practical than buck+ball, that always seemed like a pointless thing to me

>>33190361

>How can they be made even more effective?

>Little rubber dick instead of the boring old rubber slug.
>Frangible vial filled with industrial strength acetic acid followed by rock salt. Call it the "Salt & Vinegar" round.
>Frangible vial filled with hamster piss.

>>33190770
You would need airtight shells because lye turns to shit when left out in open air too long. And what would be the point? Poorly penetrating flakes that might cause a chemical burn if the guy you are shooting is wet?

>>33190788
For non-sabot, the Hexolit is pretty good and is pictured in >>33190749. Barely adequate penetration for hunting but more than enough for people, even at 100m.

For sabot, Hornady's SST and Remington's Premier Accutip, both hunting rounds, achieve 24"+ of penetration with ~1" expansion. Both are available in 12 and 20ga and 2.75" and 3". Supposedly Hornady has a low-recoil/low-velocity LE load of their SST sabot but I've never seen it and can't find it in their 2017 catalog.

Slugs are generally a dumb choice for HD and of limited use outside the home except for hunting.

>>33190676
You loose magazine capacity. No point.

>>33190836
Usually only 1 less for a lot more fire power

>>33190845
Same could be accomplished downsizing to #1 or #4 buck without losing capacity or increasing recoil.

Especially if they go to the high-density tungsten-iron buckshot pellets that are 15g/cm^2.

>>33190845
>Implying an extra three pieces of shot are going to make any difference terminally.

"Ha! Fuck you, you only shot me with a 1 oz slug and three pieces of shot in stead of six! Surely I'll still be able to rape your daughter!"

>>33190813
where did it mention lye being in these shells?

>>33190361
>shotgun loads remaining the same for the past 100 years
Yeah because we still use paper/cork wads and untreated soft lead shot with slow burning powder, right?
Pretty sure they didn't have pattern-tightening plastic wads, plated buckshot and 3" magnum loads in 1917 bro

>>33190813
it does come in pellet form

>>33190870
>Sodium hydroxide
Right there numbnuts. That's lye. Caustic soda. The shit from fight club. Not explodey sodium metal.

>>33190361the Taser company has packed a taser round into a 12ga shell... so there's that

>>33190897

I thought they discontinued those because they were so expensive and unreliable

>>33190906
I'm not sure they were ever in full production. They were certainly never standard issue anywhere.

>>33190880
>plated buckshot

What's the point of this, anyway? It just over penetrates like a motherfucker without fragmenting or anything. No better than shooting someone multiple times with 9mm FMJ.

>>33190906
yea, but they were still created and therfore we have the tech to reproduce and improve them

>>33190906
>>33190921
all that matters is getting a patent out and for someone in the future to make it better

>>33190950
You can't icepick someone with a shotgun, simple as that. 9 (12 if 3" mag) pellets hitting someone at 1200FPS literally anywhere on the body will inflict a debilitating wound whether they fragment or not.
The plating keeps the pattern tighter as the pellets won't deform like pure lead will, plus it aids in barrier penetration.

>>33190950
It keeps the pellets from getting stuck together as they pass through the choke.

>>33190361
why don't shotgun shells use the ball and chain like how pirates used to do, isn't it like one of the deadliest shots out of a canon?

The biggest advances in shotgun loads (standard shot, not counting crazy payloads) have been with the buffers and wads. There's only so much you can do for lead balls, but a properly designed wad will give you longer range and tighter patterns.

>>33190813
>lye pellet embeds under skin
>bleed
>OH GOD IT BURNS

do people not have copious amounts of water underneath their skin on your planet?

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>>33191061
They do make them, they are called Bolo rounds.

>>33191076
Lye pellets aren't dense enough to penetrate skin on my planet, seriously they'd probably behave like confetti and get in your fucking eyes

>>33191061

There are novelty shells like that. According to Box O' Truth the pellets separate from the cable. Also chain shot is for taking out a ship's mast, this cripples the ship. Grapeshot or canister is the anti-personal round, i.e. upscaled buckshot.

>>33191101
>>33191151
so are these actually as devastating as I'd imagine them being?

>>33191163
There are videos of them on youtube. They seem reasonably accurate, but unpredictable in how they fly. Sometimes that spin, sometimes they bunch up. They are definitely leathal.

>>33191014
>54gr, .33 cal copper-plated buckshot pellet going at 1200 FPS

vs

>115gr .357 cal FMJ bullet going at 1200 FPS

You're right, it's worse than shooting someone multiple times with cheapo 9mm FMJ.

The entire point of buckshot is that it's soft lead that will impart more energy on the target through deformation and NOT PENETRATING THROUGH HIS BODY.

Plated buckshot just acts like lightweight 9mm FMJ. Overpenetrates and does fucking nothing.

>>33190659
>OK so get this, it's a slug round, right...? but it's also a shot round!
>You're a damn idiot and I want one.
>Awesome, we just have to spruce up the company logo!
>We're doing what now?

>>33191284
what about at longer ranges?

>>33190706
>>33190739
Does someone make this or is this a goddamn mock up.

If someone makes this, for the love of god, sauce.

>>33191369
>00 buck
>"Longer ranges"

Use slugs if you have to use the shotgun.

Or do the smart thing and use a rifle.

>>33190361
>not using cut shells
Do you not want a tumbling slug?

>>33190659
I use the 12g and the .410 version of these(.40 is 4 plated disks and 16BB) and they pattern extrremely well. The slug has great accuracy and the spread of the 000 is less than a foot at 30 yards in a shotgun with a 12.5 inch barrel

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>>33190749
That's very interesting, thanks.

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>>33190593
>nig nogs

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>>33193303

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>>33190593
>>33190629

> Ey Yo Gimmie yo wallet or
BANG
> What the fuck man
> Assailant wondering why you shot them, yet they're not bleeding or hurt
> Covered in an oily liquid that smells like bananas
> You're laughing as you walk away
> They decide you're not worth messing with and are insane
> Soon
> Bzzz
> Ow! Fucking bees, man
> Bzzzzzzzzz
> BZZZZZZZZZZ
> Ow goddammit what the hell
> BZZZZZZZZZ
> BZZZZZZZZZ
> What a way to die

>>33191547

Yeah, they're made by OATH.

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In the game I've been planning, one I'd the craftables is incindenary buckshot. Magnesium and titanium powder and shavings with number 1 buckshot thrown in.

One thing I want to see pan out is a somewhat bullet shaped slug with a incindenary compound and a pentrator in it inside a 3 1/2 shell.

>mfw I can fire mini missles on some poor faggot that wanted to thread on me

>>33193303
faggot

Here's the real challenge /k/:

Name an effective modern shotgun round that doesn't have a name like "XXX 9000 NIGGER EXTERMINATOR" so I don't get raped in court later.

>>33193972

FEDERAL PREMIUM 12 GA REDUCED-RECOIL 2-3/4" 9 PELLET FLITECONTROL 00 BUCK SHOT

Big long name

>>33190950
Lead buckshot doesn't fragment unless it hits something like a knife edge, numb nuts. Lead is malleable, it'd rather deform than splinter.

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>>33190361
>How can they be made even more effective?
That design does work damn well.
>>33194010
Just don't put it through a barrel with a choke of any kind in it, or it might as well be any cheap buckshot.

>>33191652
You've never patterned a shotgun for deer, have you?

>>33190393
>no cum
shiggy

>>33190659
buck and ball loads for smoothbore weapons predate the American revolution.

Are flechettes still a meme?

>>33190706
looks like a goddamn ER24 collet.

I've always wondered about the design behind the shotgun. The evolution of muskets to rifles and the evolution of ball to bullet makes sense, but the shotgun just looks like it took a divergence somewhere along the line to make a huge cartridge but usually filled with smaller shot.

I've been wondering, what would be the next "shotgun design" that operates on the same principles but for a much different purpose and mechanism for our weapons today?

>>33193927
what am I looking at?

>>33194122
plasma hand cannoon

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What do you guys think is the next major technological evolution of the shotgun? I can imagine some sort of shotgun that fires "smart" rounds that can be programmed on the fly to adjust buckshot patterning based on a laser rangefind measurement to the target, ensuring a perfect spread on the chest of a human target from 10ft to 100 yards.

>>33194367
Airburst tech.

>>33194367
Homing slugs.

>>33194122
In my mind, the shotgun is closer to the musket than the rifle is. As it is a long smoothbore gun that shoots varieties of high caliber shot at low velocity. The effective ranges are even comparable.

Reminds me of the mythbusters episode where they loaded a cannon with anything else you could use if you ran out of cannonballs. They used knives, forks, but the best was the chain link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJOWKo0bkR4

>>33190361
Why not just make a hollow point slug?

>>33190361
Your statement is wrong and shows that you know very little of the topic.

>>33194649
Yeah its almost like chain length was used in cannon shot for centuries, or something

Though a bolo round for small game would be pretty neat

>>33194436
>airburst shot contained in a frangible slug carrying its own sealed propellant
All it needs is a reliable means of airbursting

>>33193927
So basically the Hotshot from Dredd

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shotgun version when

>>33190706
>>33190756
>>33190739
>>33190768
>>33190770
>>33191547
>>33194109
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnCitt49L2Q

those oath rounds are pretty expensive to have so many failures

>>33194122
The whole point of a shogun is to be a smoothbore in various gauges. It just simply never changed. That's why dram equivalent is a thing. It's for sporting and hunting, "backwards compatibility" is the design feature of any new shotgun made. Other guns do the gun thing better, the only thing it is good for is abiding by certain laws and fowling-type exercises.

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>>33194708
Hory shit I need it

>>33191284
>The entire point of buckshot is that it's soft lead that will impart more energy on the target through deformation and NOT PENETRATING THROUGH HIS BODY.

No it not you empty headed twat. The point of buckshot it to increase the probability of a lethal hit on the vitals of the target. 9-20 projectiles at 1200fps within or around a kill zone is in no way for worse than a 115 slug.

It's not one tiny projectile that does the work you senseless troll. It only takes on tiny pellet to kill, but with one pull of the trigger you send 9+

>>33193834
>why

I kek'ld

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>>33194739
Close enough

>>33194739
>when you need to screw things in really fast

>>33195540
Problem with buckshot in HD is no distance for the pellets to spread though. I'm sure someone has tried making wad insertions that encourage spread faster but can't think of any names.

>>33195871
Except for the flite control stuff I use for critter killing, the regular 00 buck seems to spread out damn fast. It should have a very high probability of destroying enough bloodflow and organs to knock someone out fast.

>>33190361

There has been improvements, just that civvi cannot own. Like the AA12 grenade round. Or the tazer round, a few other cool ones.

>>33194708
We already have such a thing and it is fielded. I wouldn't call it a shotgun though, it's really more of a grenade launcher.

>>33190749
where can I buy Hexolit 32 and that AP-20 round from the same manufacturer?

>>33195871
No the only problem is overpenetration.
At HD distances depending on how a particular shotgun patterns with a given load it's either a 1-2" hole filled with lead or a fist side bit of hamburder. Anything above #4 buck at HD distance is going to make a mess of whatever it hits and it still has a better chance of hitting than a pistol despite not being a flak gun as portrayed by tv.

It's actually pretty easy to make shot spread quickly (rifled barrels or the lack of a wad) but that's not what you want.

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>>33190393
>not shooting small bundles of 22lr

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>what is Frag-12

Honestly though, a big limit to shotguns is ammo weight and case design.

So a caseless design would be interesting. And the case itself should be redesigned to be rimless to better facilitate being used in box magazines. And use a more rigid hull like brass, or steel to save on cost. Box mag shotguns like the Saiga are plagued with reliability issues in comparison to other traditional autos, and it could make them an actual viable option for military.

It's not really practical for the types of guerilla war being fought now, but I can imagine a box mag fed design like the Saiga with the above changes being fielded in a conventional war between two standing modern militaries. Shotgunners would be armed with buckshot and frag rounds, which would extend their range and turn them into a pseudo-grenadier. Would be pretty devastating in urban warfare or jungle.

>>33194649
I'm super triggered that there was 1. No slo-mo. 2. Not more shots with actual bolo-chain shot. (if this was a thing idk)

Just want to see a pig get cut in fucking half, man.

>>33190813
Cast hollowpoint slug out of lead..

Load it.

Fill the hollow point with sodium.

Cover it in wax.

????

You can even just load most foster slugs backwards, and fill the pocket halfway.

Works great.

Trust me.

>>33193303
nigger

>>33190361

>Federal Flite Control buckshot

works for most combat ranges senpai

>>33190702
Why not just use buckshot at that point?

>>33193303
>OH NO HE SAID AN EVIL WORD
back to /reddit/

Slugs covered in pig grease for moslems

>>33203338
HATE CRIME

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>not using full power lego bricks

No matter where you hit a burglar, his feet will explode

>>33190950
Tighter pattern due to less deformation on firing and prevents cold weld of the pellets.

Use soft lead without plating and buffering if you want wide patterns.

t. Shotgun Instructor

>>33203402
monster

>>33203440
Lego heads fit exactly into .40 casings

>>33191284
Dipshit, the point of buckshot is multiple wounds that penetrate vitals.

Energy don't mean shit, it's all 12-18" of penetration which all buckshot provide.

Plating doesn't turn a pellet into AP shit, it just has less deformation.

Plz read some Bob Brister books and get some real life shotgun instruction.

>>33194010
This nigga knows what's up, but #1 buck Flite control is tits. Also Remington Express 00 buck for a good cheap buck load.

The future will be more improvement in shotshell components. Probably will have buckshot that will pattern at 100 yards on a B10.

Shit, even today there is no need for 10 or 16 gauge since 12 and 20 can do the same with modern shells.

>>33203497
In the future where the NFA has been repealed, an automatic gun will do exactly the same thing except you can turn it to semi whenever you want.

Shotguns are out of date and serve no purpose except being cheap long arms and doorbreakers.

>>33193834
How reasonable would it be to do this with some kind of paintball system instead?

>>33190739
Shit SD so shit penetration.
Have fun causing superficial wounds which won't incapacitate.

>>33196549
Sgammo has hexolit

>>33203770
what about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAbf3qXs2qI ?

>>33203833
Ive bought ap 12ga from Americanspecialtyammo before.
Basically just a hardened steel slug with a lead skirt. I've still never fired it, so can't tell yang how effective it is.

>>33191163
you'd be better off shooting just two lead balls untethered

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>>33190393
>no crystallized DMT in 3" magnum shells

>>33204290

DMT in crystal form wouldn't do anything trip wise.

You'd need DMT citrate, IIRC.

And DMT highs only last 5 minutes or so.

>>33204330
5 minutes of debilitating oneness is enough

>>33203576
>Shotguns are out of date and serve no purpose except being cheap long arms and doorbreaker

Sure, besides doing the things that give them a sporting exemption in the first place