Fragmenting pistol rounds

>>33140300
Certain 5.7x28mm loads claim to do this, but it may only reliably work out of longer barrels.

>>33140334
My thought was that using something like 9x25 or even just 9mm would allow you to propel a bullet of ideal weight (compared to the puny 5.7) at 5.7 speeds.

>>33140300
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr6h44Pu4sM&t

they do and it's AP

Insufficient barrel length.

>>33140599
https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=JmQkfFvTYNw

This seems like a pretty damning test. Shit all penetration with the stuff, as I would expect.

>>33140882
But what if you went bigger? 9x25 could reach insane velocities with light bullets, which I'm thinking could push fragments far enough into flesh to do real damage.

>>33140929
If you go bigger you're not really shooting a handgun any more.

>>33140946
9x25 is most certainly a handgun cartridge.

>>33141012
A ten inch barrel is most certainly not a handgun barrel.

Suddenly wondering if the Tok can shoot luger food

>>33140300
Look up Lehigh Defense Maximum Expansion. They don't quite fragment but it's close

>>33141047
But I'm saying it's possible to reach incredible velocities with the cartridge even from short barrels.

>>33141198
Not with current propellants.

The FN 5-7 does pretty much what you're proposing and generally fails to fragment.

>>33141209
But then it's designed for light recoil and piercing armour, not pushing fragments 12 inches or more.

>>33141225
It's a light bullet going as fast as possible with current propellant tech.

>>33141254
It doesn't matter how fast it's going if it's not designed to fragment reliably and effectively.

>>33140929


>Why can't you make the pistol equivalent of 5.56
>They tried but can't hit the required velocity
>Why can't you do it with a larger caliber

Think for a fucking second man.

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You could get some 10mm...

>>33141384
For one thing, you don't need it fragmenting at long ranges. Also, the thick copper jacket of a 556 bullet requires a needlessly high velocity to fragment. I don't see how it's unreasonable to think light 9x25 could fragment and penetrate well out of a handgun.

It's possible but you'll need to design it to break into larger fragments. Small fragments moving at pistol velocity won't have the momentum needed penetrate significantly. Fewer but larger fragments will travel further. Very like fragments might have to be pre-segmented like VBR ammo or RIP.

Ignore the ignorants claiming high velocity is required to fragment. It's not, you can design to fragment at any level. Old bullets require high velocity because they weren't explicitly designed to fragment, it was a fortunate side effect.

>>33142486
*Very large fragments
Not "very like"

>>33141072
.30 Luger? No, it's too short by quite a bit.

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>>33141047
In america it is.

>>33142486
>>33142513
Very informative, thanks. Do you think I'm on to something here, or are pistol bullets as good as they're getting?

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>>33143472
It has to be tested to be certain, but I think it could be at least as good as hollow point. It has the same features - greater wound channel than FMJ, controlled penetration. But for fragmenting bullets cost is a big issue, most segmented bullets are made of milled brass which is expensive, while the non-segmented bullets fragment too small to work well with pistols. So if you could make a semi affordable (on par with hollow point) segmented bullets I think you could sell it. Once it's on the market there will be money to improve the design.

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>>33140300

What the hell, OP? They DO.

https://www.ableammo.com/catalog/magsafe-ammo-for-sale-online-discount-prices-c-10480_14658_14659_14701.html

>>33146039
>5 inches
That is the issue with must fragmenting pistol ammo.

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you mean like this?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fhADWIC8Et0

>>33140573
I think there's a 50 gr 9mm hollowpoint that's supposed to go something like 2000fps. MAC did a video on it and it pierced a 3a vest. But I've also heard that it fragments too early, and only the core makes it to 12" in ballistic gel.

>>33141527
60 grain 10mm ammo

fuck I need this in my life

fuck you europe

>>33147164
http://libertyammunition.com/product/civil-defense-9mm

I want it in fmj.

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Well there would be no point.

Most high velocity rounds exit the body before even starting expansion. Those rounds you have listed are no exception. RIP tried to fix the expanding bullet meme but failed.
Bullets and their effect on target goes:

Low velocity
>Expansion

High velocity
>fragmentation
>Hydroshock

>>33141527
wholly fug

>>33147369
There are a number of well designed 556 rounds that expand in a target.

>>33146880
There's literally no use for ammo that sheds weight by throwing fragments a few inches deep.

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OH my! Those who don't learn history are destine to repeat it.

There have been many attempts to manufacture a frangible bullet. These bullets were so brittle they would break upon loading or firing and never reach the target.

If the bullet hit the target, they lacked the ability to penetrate deep enough to damage vital organs.

Shot placement is king.
Penetration is queen.
Learn from history.. Never use frangable bullets.

>>33147259
Hate to burst your bubble, but the ammo ain't too good.

Creates a big wound in the first 3 inches but then yaws up and icepicks hard.

If you want to see something really fun, go look at the 135gr nosler jhp that doubletap makes. The ballistic results are... messy.

>>33148443
I understand that every attempt at a fragmenting pistol round has been absolute shit, but that doesn't mean it can't work. As the anon above me said, it could work, you just need bigger fragments and a design that fragments deeper in the target.

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>>33148158
Sure everyone has used PDX at some point in time. Canelures make sure you have a mini shot and slug fest. But then why was this thread made?

>>33148482
it's europe
so nobody is wearing a west

so a huge instant cavity wound is pretty much what you want

penetration isn't THAT important over here

>>33148794
You still don't get it.
Small fragments penetrate less than one single projectile.

It's the reason so much has been spent developing bonded bullets. They want that shit to stay together.

>>33149469
If you can make a 9mm go 27 inches through gel, I bet you can make it split in two and go at least 12 inches.

Does anyone have experience with these? What are the ballistics like?

http://www.lehighdefense.com/collections/multiple-projectile