It's time to stop.

>iraq war
>libyan civil war

>winner

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How did we "lose" Vietnam, but "win" the Libyan civil war. We won more in 'nam than in Libya for sure.

>>33125921
Kerry

I hate the US lost 'Nam meme

>Fighting Viet Kong
>Sick of fighting
>Get Viet Kong to agree to treaty to end the war
>Having done it's job, US leaves
>Viet Kong breaks treaty afterwards and pushes south, long after the US fucked off

>>33125961
Fuck you, baby-killer.

>>33125961
>make treaty with jamal that he doesn't mug you
>mugs you anyway
>"well, atleast I didn't get mugged"

>>33125879
sage and report for politics.

>>33125891
Do you see Saddam in Baghdad? Qaddafi in Tripoli?

>>33125961
So you lost?

>>33125961
At least we eventually got this commercial out of it; sucks to be Ivan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgm14D1jHUw

>>33125879
>Vietnam
>lose
We fulfilled our obligation and responsibility. Not our fault they fucked it up after the paris peace accords.

>>33128149
So you lost?

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>we won
>xD

>>33128149
stop fuckin backpedaling and take it like a man
every country has lost at least once

>>33125961
>North Vietnam gained way more than the treaty stipulated, and the US did fuck all about it.
Say whatever you want, it certainly wasn't a draw or a loss for them.
Call it "military victory - political defeat" if you wish so, but the US failed at accomplishing their objectives in the region.
Take example on the brits and frogs, they don't claim that they won the Suez crisis even if they wiped the floor with Egypt.

>>33128171
>every country has lost at least once
But America has never lost a war, we have won all 5 that we participated in.

>>33125961
>hurr durr treaty
by that logic Russia didn't lost the first world war

I remember a part in the documentary, Fog of War. Decades after the conflict, US military higher ups and Vietnamese generals are meeting on peaceful terms in Vietnam. A former US general with some liquor in him was talking to his Viet counterpart about how his boys mopped the floor with Charlie. He rattles off the list of American victories and accomplishments in Vietnam. How many battles they won, how many enemy dead, and the Vietnamese general listened patiently to all of this. Then he said "But none of it matters, does it?"

>>33125921
>>33125961


Nah.

Objective in Vietnam: Stop Commies from conquering south, avoid dominos falling
Result: Gommies won o fug, had 1 domino fall but otherwise that part was a success but main objective failed.

Libya: Depose Gaddafi and stop him from killing poor widdle rebels.
Result: Gaddafi deposed and killed so goal achieved. Poor widdle rebels busy killing eachother.

10 years is a good buffer zone for what happens after an ally/a sponsor leaves to determine if the onus of their local boy's defeat is on the ally/sponsor or on the local boy entirely. Thus the Russians lost in Afghanistan because shortly after withdrawing their proxy is defeated. We lost in vietnam because shortly after withdrawing our proxy was defeated.

We did not lose the Iraq war because the goal of regime change was realized, we left with stability and nominal democracy. There is a bit of an exception here because it was purely Al-Maliki's naked sectarianism that caused the Sunni support for ISIS to develop. Had ISIS taken Baghdad then you could say we lost the 2003 Iraq war since it was less than 10 years after we pulled out.

>>33128175
>Call it "military victory - political defeat"
Tactical American victory, strategic Viet Cong victory.

>>33128225
You can't lose a war if you don't exist by the end of the war.

>>33128175
>it certainly wasn't a draw or a loss for them.
Well if you are basing it off of actions taken after the end of the war (you are), then I would like to refer you to modern day Vietnam.

>>33128155
Actually you can largely blame the middle East and the US political system for the fall of Saigon. In 1973 Saigon was close to having a pretty damn competent military force assembled that vastly outgunned the NVA. However the oil crisis after the Yom Kippur conflict made it so South Vietnam was suddenly unable to afford enough fuel to use their military equipment in the manner they had trained for. Around the same time the US government reduced funding to South Vietnam and blocked any further intervention which demoralized the Vietnamese army and leadership. Hence the fall of South Vietnam in 1975.

If the oil price shock of 1973 hadn't occured the South Vietnamese Army would have been functional and Hanoi knew they only had an effective window of a year or two to attack before that point, the price shock suddenly gave them the golden opportunity they were looking for and when South Vietnam asked for assistance we turned away.
A lot of stupid things all came together to cause the end of the Vietnam War, between poor popular opinion, new media coverage, shit like Jane Fonda, and a military hamstrung by weird limits due to a fear of Chinese intervention. It was a shitshow through and through.

Look on the brightside though, nice and horribly pervasive Western culture has piled into Vietnam over the years to the point where Hanoi had crap like Starbucks and KFC in it and Vietnam is fairly friendly to the US. Mainly because China is being a cock these days.

>>33128282
>socialist republic were the CPV is the only authorized party and the secretary general is #1 of the country.
They won, anon. Plain and simple.

>>33125961
>We killed a lot of people but lost everything!!!
I bet you think the Germans won WWII too

>>33128205
>5

>>33128352
They did in the berenstein timeline.

>>33128358
https://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/history/h_multi_sections_and_teasers/WarDeclarationsbyCongress.htm
war of 1812
mexican american war
spanish american war
great war
world war 2

America has only participated in 5 wars.

>>33125891
Strategic loss friend

>>33128379
>They did in the berenstein timeline.
maybe they shouldn't have gassed them then

>>33125879
Nah. Humans love war. If you don't, stay home and comfy.

>>33125879
>those years of relative peace 1975-1982

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>>33125921
>>33125961
It wasn't a military loss but we did fail to achieve our goals, namely an independent South Vietnam or the eradication of communist North Vietnamese.
Mass media interference brought the realities of war to a homeland perverted by communist subversion and influence especially in the post-secondary education system, the confluence of the two during a time of lowered trust in government and social upheaval greatly lowered morale and support for a civil war, doubly so when many ignorant children felt the free world had no inherent stake in the conflict.
The northern side and it's supporters got their asses kicked but leaving and abandoning the south to its fate, when it did not even really want to keep its own leadership in power does not amount to a win. It was not an explicit surrender but it was tantamount to it.
In the case of Libya the goal of removing Qaddafi from power and dissolving his state was achieved even if US involvement was minimal by comparison.

>>33125961
When you fail to achieve your objective, you lost even if you dress it up by bugging out then leaving your failed proxy to the wolves it deserves.

By that metric, the Soviet Union won A-stan because their client government survived a few years.

>sick of fighting

means slowly BTFO. Clinging to conventional war metrics is how we made the mistake of entering a war of zero strategic benefit while bleeding resources from NATO which actually mattered.

"Two, three, many Viet Nams!" was an insightful Commie slogan.

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>>33125879
>lost vietnam
no nation can win against the McDick of Freedom.

>>33128149
>We fulfilled our obligation and responsibility. Not our fault they fucked it up after the paris peace accords.

WE WAT??? We left the South unsupplied to be destroyed by the conventional NVA invasion? You are playing austard semantic games.

War is not separate from political and social struggles. Americans cause ourselves much harm by pretending that only the sort of nation-state wars we glorify are real.

>>33128482
>means slowly BTFO
Last time I checked, we killed gooks at a ratio of over 50:1. I wouldn't call that "BTFO".

>>33128541
This isn't CoD warfare isn't measured in k:dr

>>33128447
>It wasn't a military loss

Pyrrhic victory. Look it up. No fair playing semantic games. The damage done to the US forces was so bad there were combat refusals, riots and a general disaster only truly cured with the Volunteer Force and billions of dollars during the Reagan buildup.

Have some history conveniently ignored by left and right except for those alive then. I was, but born a few years too late to serve in Viet Nam.
The movie sucks but the resources are excellent:

http://www.sirnosir.com/site_sections/library.html

https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/Vietnam/heinl.html

>>33128541
The united States lost nearly 10000 aircraft in Viet Nam

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>>33128493


>>33128380
>never declare war
>you can't technically lose even if you're completely annihilated
that's the best "checkmate, atheist" I've seen in months.

>>33128541
Body count metrics are irrelevant when the opponent has vast numbers of expendables. See also Mao's remarks on nuclear warfare.

You win by accomplishing your goals without taking vastly more military and social damage than the (local) victory was worth. That includes the fucking disaster that was the US armed forces until we shitcanned conscription and went professional.

>>33128380
>War of 1812
>US won
Boy America tried to invade British North America and got BTFO

>>33128587
Including thousands of helicopters which remain delicate soft targets.

>Total helicopters destroyed in the Vietnam War was 5,086 out of 11,827

http://www.vhpa.org/heliloss.pdf

>>33128573
By your logic the invasion of Iraq was a loss.

>>33128380
>America has only participated in 5 wars.
We also participated in Nam, the gulf, Iraq, etc.
Just because there wasn't a declaration of war by congress doesn't mean we didn't participate.

>>33128613
Too bad for BNA because now it's Raepfugeestan.

Unintended consequences often suck.

US rescued Soviets and Chinks from Germans and Japs. NeoSoviets and Chinks worse threat than Axis.

>>33128626
>By your logic the invasion of Iraq was a loss.

The invasion was a victory. The occupation incredibly costly sufficient to be a net loss even if the monkeys make nice in fifty years.

>>33128613
So? That wasn't the point of the War. The point was that the British were impressing US sailors aboard their ships. After the War ended they stopped doing that. We achieved our objective. By your logic Britain and the US lost WWII because their invasion of the Netherlands failed.

>>33128692
>A large mobilization is a money sink.
S H O C K I N G
H
O
C
K
I
N
G

>>33128603
A small Vietnamese restaurant isn't a big deal in the US. We're the evil capitalists/globalists. The North Vietnamese fought against western power and influence. That restaurant is probably run by refugees that escaped from the NVA and embrace western values.

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>>33128748
>The North Vietnamese fought against western power and influence.
The height of absurdity. Are you pictured here?

>>33125961
>winning at half time
>declare victory and go home
>unopposed, the other team scores constantly until the end of the game

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>>33128748
>>33128771
Or is it you here?

>>33128696
Actually they had already stopped doing that before the war. Also, Britain wasn't the only country in Europe stealing American sailors.

>>33128771
>>33128793
/pol/ has become the saddest, cringiest thing since CWC

>>33128696
>The point was that the British were impressing US sailors
That wasn't 'the' point, it was one of many.

>>33125879
>its another "USA didnt win the vietnam war" thread
We couldve nuked the country so I literally dont give a shit if we lost.

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>>33128835
Stop deflecting gommie, /pol/ has nothing to do with this.

>>33125879
sage and report

Yeah we lost the vietnam war. So what?

>>33128923
>/pol/tard telling us what to do
fuck off kid

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>>33128986

>>33128748
That's what they want you to think. They're infiltrating your society, anon. It's cultural (and biological) warfare at its peak.

>>33128790
Seems fair, but the stadium was a smoking hole in the ground when we left.

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>>33125996

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>tfw Soldier of Fortune has views that would get them called cucks by neckbeards today