HK433

>>33123695
a SCAR that's not chubby?

sure

>>33123695
Bit of a meme gun, but a fucking amazing collector's piece nonetheless. I don't really understand why HK developed a rifle to phase out the still fresh HK 416, but if it's following the same trend, it should be an amazing rifle. Unnecessary for the German military, but amazing.

>>33123756
not really to phase out the 416, France just ordered like 120,000 I think.
It's to replace the G36, as 416 is too expensive for German army

>>33123695
Lower rate of fire and marginally, if at all, lighter than the 416 in most configurations? Seems rather pointless. I know HK wants to pump out more guns, but I can't see anyone adopting this over the 416.

>>33123695

It probably doesn't do anything an AR can't, but it looks pretty neat, if that's worth something

Knowing Heckle my Cock though, I doubt one will come to the US market.

>>33123756
>I don't really understand why HK developed a rifle to phase out the still fresh HK 416
Its to phase out the G36, not the 416. This is the rifle they'll offer to the hipster countries/organisations that dont want ARs (like Bundeswehr). Hence the similar manual of arms to the G36.

>>33123695
What does this POS shit do that other AR-18 clones don't?

It's heavier than the 416 to boot (which was already heavier than the ar-15).

Fucking hack garbage.

>>33123799
>What does this POS shit do that other AR-18 clones don't?
Replaces the G36.

>>33123799
It's actually supposedly lighter than the 416.

Numbers I've seen thrown around indicate 3400 gr for 433 vs 3490 gr for 416 assuming both are 14.5in barrel.

>>33123756
>>33123774
Because a purposely made piston gun can be made better than a piston AR15 in almost every way. Murriclaps don't get that because they literally can't wrap their head around a manual of arms that isn't an AR15 one.
>>33123799
>Piece of Shit shit
>that other AR-18 clones don't
Being made by HK rather than shitmaster would be the most important part. Also, fixing and/or improving whatever others fucked up. It's like you hate gun diversity.

>>33123986
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/hk433-LIST-660x453.jpg

Considering the 11" model of the 416 is 130g lighter all the weight savings must be in the barrel (which isn't good, because barrel thickness directly affects performance).

>>33123989
>It's like you hate gun diversity.
No I love gun diversity, which is why I hate seeing repetitive design shat out constantly. This offers nothing the FN16 doesn't or other designs don't. And that's not even mentioning that with the weight savings a modern AR-15 is still plain better. The only reason guns like this are made is because of nations insisting on locally produced fire-arms resulting in hack companies cloning existing concepts. It's a complete waste of time, effort and money. Another proprietary, overpriced AR-18. Fake diversity.

>>33123695
>SCAR-variant that won´t cost 5k€ and will actually be released in my country
Sounds great

>>33124010
I'd be willing to bet it has more to do with differences in hand guard construction and design.

>>33123695
>Is this your new wet dream /k/?

It only exists because Germany can't afford the HK416. It's just a cheaper variant to sell more easily.

In general, that means they've made concessions in the design department.

>>33123776
>hipster
If liking the SCAR+G36+AR looks makes me a hipster then consider me sold. Amidst the sea of AR clones I think it's gorgeous.

>>33124046
It's funny that people like you are fooled so easily. Same rifle dressed up in slightly different furniture.

>>33123769

>It's to replace the G36

Was gonna post this. More alloy, less polymer.

>>33124026

Ironically in the barrel again.

So expect there to be lolbendybarrels ala early G36s.

Should just buy a shitload of M16A4s for pennies on the dollar.

>>33124010
HK making a good AR18 clone and making it the new german service rifle will increase interest in AR18s. Should they sell it to civilians (fingers crossed, but it's possible) it will increase competition. I don't know about america, but their civilian G36 in germany is actually priced very reasonably by german standards. Meanwhile, an ACR is way overpriced with no aftermarket and we don't even get SCARs for some silly reason (but we all know they're overpriced as well).

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>>33124069
>Ironically in the barrel again.
>So expect there to be lolbendybarrels ala early G36s.

I'd take a thin barrel over a melty trunion every day though.
A thin barrel may string during heavier fire, but will return to zero.

>>33124076
>HK making a good AR18 clone and making it the new german service rifle will increase interest in AR18s.
You realize the G36 is literally an AR18 in a plastic shell, right?

>>33124069
>>33124091
>Complaining about barrel
You did read the part about the quick barrel change, right?

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>>33124093

He said a -good- clone. Not a widely contested one.

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>>33123695
Oh look. Another cost cutting design that will result in another scandal and will be replace by another cost cutting design.

>>33124093
>good
The G36 wasn't even good by 90s standards, and that's without talking about trunnions that may or may not melt. It's simply outdated in concept.

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>>33124099
>You did read the part about the quick barrel change, right?

So, you don't whine about an underpowered car being sold to you, because you can do an engine swap? ;)

Nice shilling, bro. Good HK goy.

>>33124099
>Pencil barrels are okay if they're quick-change.
What, so everyone has to carry spare barrels around with them? Its not a support weapon and if spares have to be carried, then any prospective weight savings are null.

>>33123695
>5.56
No thanks

It's funny that the German military can't afford to buy guns that are already made by a German company so they have to develop cheap shit. Modern day Germany is a fucking joke. No wonder they are being overrun by sand people

>>33124109
>>33124109
>The G36 wasn't even good by 90s standards
this. A simple AK-74 is a much, much, much, much better gun.

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>>33124126
>It's funny that the German military can't afford to buy guns that are already made by a German company so they have to develop cheap shit. Modern day Germany is a fucking joke. No wonder they are being overrun by sand people

If the HK G36 had a normal service life, they wouldn't have needed a new service rifle so soon.

>>33124126
they have a 80bn€ surplus which they will spend on refuniggers. you can buy a lot of dakka for even just 3bn€

>>33124110
>>33124112
The point, you dumb niggers, is that the design decision of barrel profile is literally the easiest thing to change after the handguard (which btw. is also shit, but I'm hoping they come around if they ever sell it to civilians). Maybe they use a pencil barrel now so the official weight looks better or something.

>>33124099
So when you make it apples to apples it's still heavier than a 416? Why does it even exist then?

Any word on a civilian version?

>>33124126
>433 is cheap
>433 is shit
>bad guns are responsible for national suicide wish
You seem to know a few things I don't. Care to share your sources, I am *really* interested.

>>33124139
You mean if Germans weren't cheap fucks and actually made good guns for their military. No one else is complaining about the G36. That 2% GDP NATO spending needs to be enforced stat

>>33124139
I don't into German and even less their politics but I read somewhere that their "progressive" government wanted disposable guns with intentionally limited service lives so they would have no secondary or potential black market.

Literally a self defeating design.

>>33124151
Why didn't they just buy the HK416 then?

>>33124142
No shit fucker that's been implied a thousand times in this very thread already.

The weight savings are a hoax, it's heavier than a 416.

>>33124151
>bad guns are responsible for national suicide wish
Other way around numbnuts. More dense than granite you are.

>>33124163
don't worry, that POS is going nowhere, they'll buy the Steyr-Rheinmetall AR-AUG hybrid.

>>33123695
>keymod
>PROPRIETARY KEYMOD
As if it wasn't bad enough.

>>33124173
>HK

what did you expect?

>>33124169
>Steyr-Rheinmetall AR-AUG hybrid
Praytell this is not an AR clone?

>>33124146
>>33124159
Better manual of arms (YMMV), more buttstock options because no buffer, probably cheaper, simpler and more reliable because not an AR15 with a piston shoved in. No you dumb fucks, that doesn't mean it works less well. Also, someone whose army rejects replacement programs for their aging rifles every other year because it's too expensive really shouldn't throw stones.

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>>33124179

But of course!

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>>33124179
It's the AUG's gas system and quick change barrel shit in an AR configuration from the few pics that got released; it's designed by Steyr but will be made by Rheinmetall. Makes sense for a Nato country.

>>33124091

I'd rather my barrel not bend at all during high temperatures like the sandbox or my handguards fucking melt either. But Germany did both with the G36 and still gave H&K the new contract.

Should have just bought a bunch of M27s.

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>>33124184

I don't understand the budget for these. What is Germany willing to pay? Because for $540 million they could issue every soldier an M27 IAR and give them vastly superior rifles to all other militaries without replacing 90% of their modular inventory.

It's even made by H&K so there's no need for a fucked up cut down rifle thats worse than what the Frogs bought.

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>>33123756
>amazing
>amazing
>amazing

you trying to trump me?

Does this mean bullpups are dead?

>>33123695
Guessing they will implement mlok in later versions. Would be nice to own(yeah right), hopefully we will get civilian versions out fast.

>>33124228
They've always been dead.

>>33124244
>MLOK
>Not Keymod
Go sit in the corner!

>>33124228
Everything that isn't an ar clone is dead and gone.

>>33124256
No you go sit in the fucking corner, MLOK is much better than keymod.

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>>33124197
>Should have just bought a bunch of M27s.

And the Marines should have bought HAMRs since it was literally the only gun which met all requirements of their request. FN goes out of their way to design the HAMR to automatically switch from closed to open bolt configuration based on the chamber and barrel's temperature, to prevent cook offs and increase cooling.
And then the Marines just went with a piston AR which doesn't do shit and remains open bolt. Because what they really wanted was a fucking piston AR in the first place and just made the request to fool congress.

Lying cunts.

>>33124286
>HAMRs
>buying anything FN
>ever

aye... go eat your waffles shithead.

>>33124275
Cheaper =/= Better

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>>33124286
Why switch to open bolt based on heat?
That's silly. It would be far simpler to just have open bolt on full auto.

As crazy as it sounds, you could probably take the FG-42 design, modernize it, chamber it in 5.56, and you'd have pretty much the ideal IAR design.
Compact, fairly simple, open and closed bolt fire.
Because you could use longer magazines without suffering from any obstructions when prone, you could go past 30rnd mags without resorting to things like drums or unreliable casket mags.

>>33124307
MLOK happens to be both.

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>>33124309
>Why switch to open bolt based on heat?
>That's silly. It would be far simpler to just have open bolt on full auto.

That's what the Marines requested, so that's what FN designed.
The idea was probably that after firing full auto & switching to semi, the barrel and chamber might still be hot enough to cause cookoffs. So it's a safety feature against user incompetence. So you automate it to prevent user error.

>>33124309
Because that weapon can fulfill the role of a battle rifle and a squad automatic weapon.
Why would you not want it?

>>33124315
Mlok is a bar with two contact points per screw, whereas keymod is round and by design has more contact with the rail. It is harder to knock keymod attachments off the rails than mlok.

>>33124307
Wrong.DJtrump

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>>33123695

that ugly dogshit is a ugly dogshit

have a better rifle

>>33124379
Okay, in what way is mlok better?
>inb4 poorfags gonna poorfag

>>33124335
Isn't the risk of cookoffs already reduced by the extra cooling that can occur through the ejection port?
To risk a cookoff even on a modern closed-bolt gun you need to fire a fairly obscene amount of ammo in a short period of time, even RPKs usually do fine.
Having open bolt full auto is enough insurance against cookoffs, especially when you aren't firing more than 60 rounds before reloading.

>>33124420

The idea was to partially replace open bolt belt feds with the IAR. If you've ever been in combat, you know that the role of these belt feds is often to lay down fire for extended periods of time. So yes, it's a thing to be mindful of.

Open bolt does not magically cool your chamber & barrel so significantly quicker, it's just that firing from an open bolt means that the round does not have time to cook off before it's fired. So if someone were to switch from open to closed bolt manually, the chance of cooking off is considerable.

>>33124335
>So it's a safety feature against user incompetence. So you automate it to prevent user error.
>marines acknowledging being tards
That's too funny to be true.

Only thing better than the 416 about it is the folding stock.

Goddamn I hope the germs choose the rheinmetal-steyr piston AR instead.

>>33124436
Isn't the sheer fucking heat of prolonged full-auto fire and the reduced accuracy from the hot barrel a clear enough indicator that you shouldn't switch to closed bolt anyway?

I mean, marines are dumb, but that little bit of training definitely is preferable over strange mechanisms in the gun.

Also you can't get the same volume of fire out of an IAR as you can with a SAW. The lack of quick-change barrels and belt feeding mechanism make that an impossibility.

The IAR concept is far more RPK-like, and for those purposes just the availability of open bolt mode is probably adequate.

>>33124495
>Isn't the sheer fucking heat of prolonged full-auto fire and the reduced accuracy from the hot barrel a clear enough indicator that you shouldn't switch to closed bolt anyway?

Probably, but since the real agenda of the Marines was to sneak in a new rifle for their troops, instead of an LMG, it doesn't matter all that much in the end.

>Also you can't get the same volume of fire out of an IAR as you can with a SAW. The lack of quick-change barrels and belt feeding mechanism make that an impossibility.

Loading a 100 round drum or magazine is actually faster than loading a belt. But yes, without a quickchange barrel you're doing serious harm to your rifle.

>The IAR concept is far more RPK-like, and for those purposes just the availability of open bolt mode is probably adequate.

Except that Marines jerk off over riflemanship and as a result prefer the accuracy of a closed bolt system. A "light" open bolt weapon is bad for accuracy as after you pull the trigger, an entire mass needs to move forward before you fire. This is not condusive to marksmanship.

What kind of role does the RPK even fit into?
AK with a bipod that can put down more fire in a pinch?
Don't all Russian squads have at least one man with a PKM anyway?

t. someone who doesn't know much about infantry doctrine and is curious

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>>33124530
>What kind of role does the RPK even fit into?

The RPK was means to replace the RPD, which was probably the first real SAW LMG as we know it today. The problem was that the RPD really wasn't very good at its job.
The RPK's strength lay in the fact it could share ammo and magazines with squad mates, while being able to lay down longer & more accurate fire on full auto.

The RPK is now "end of life". It is not being bought by the Russian army any longer. Those which are inoperable are no longer replaced with new RPKs.

If no RPKs are available in the armory of the division they are part of, they are replaced with Pechenegs, which are PKMs without quick change barrel capabilities and forced air cooling. (the jury is still out on the effectiveness of this btw)

>>33124551
Why even have a 5.56 LMG when the PKM exists? Shit is legit one of the best combinations of all attributes in a squad LMG in the world.

>>33124665
>Why even have a 5.56 LMG when the PKM exists? Shit is legit one of the best combinations of all attributes in a squad LMG in the world.

You mean 5.45 or 7.62x39 for the Russians?
Well, 7.62x54R is quite heavy. And in most cases you don't actually need its range or penetration.

There have been a lot of more powerful but still intermediate rounds which have been proposed, to fill this role, but they never caught on.
More recently 6.5Grendel & 6.8SPC, but we've seen many 6 & 7mm entries for SAW calibers over the past decades.

>>33124665
>The RPK's strength lay in the fact it could share ammo and magazines with squad mates, while being able to lay down longer & more accurate fire on full auto.

>>33123695
Looks like the ACR

>>33124705
I sort of meant intermediate caliber LMGs in general. If the US copied the PKM in 7.62 Real Neato it would have been great.

The PKM is already really light for an MG of its caliber so carrying extra ammo wouldn't be as bad of a challenge. The 249 spams faster than it needs to.

>>33124150
you suck and they hate you...

>>33124724
yeah, one that works

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>>33123776
>Hence the similar manual of arms to the G36.
G3. You typo'd an extra number on.

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So Germany make a slimmer, but heavier SCAR 16?

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>>33124836
That's not a G3

>this company sold us useless trash so we'll let them produce the replacement for it
Is there a country more cucked by its arms industry than Germany?

>>33124183
>Also, someone whose army rejects replacement programs for their aging rifles every other year because it's too expensive really shouldn't throw stones.
>Implying it isn't because the M4A1 is already the pinnacle of service rifle design with only minor tweaks that could improve in in small ways

>>33124940
typo there m8,
>you mean HK416

>>33124305
>Doesn't know that FN Manufacturing is the current prime small arms contractor for rifles and machine guns

>>33123695
Does it have rails for the bolt carrier to ride on?

>>33124860
I know, felt it fit the 433 better to post the 5.56 MP5. But you know that all of that era's HK guns are operated pretty much identically, so why be pedantic?

>>33124965
No, I did not. Piston AR-15s are crap, overweight, and poorly balanced.

>>33125032
Operators disagree.

>>33125043
[citation needed]

>>33125047
-Indonesia - Indonesian Marine Corps Counter Terrorist Unit, Detasemen Jala Mengkara (Denjaka).

-Netherlands - The Netherlands Army special forces unit Korps Commandotroepen selected the HK416 over other tested assault rifles to replace their Diemaco C8 assault rifles. The weapon is shown on several photos from the unit's recruitment day. The HK416 is currently (2008) the standard assault rifle of the unit.

-Norway - On April 11, 2007, the Norwegian Ministry of Defence signed a contract for an initial shipment of 8,200 rifles to serve as its new standard assault rifle, replacing the AG-3 that has been in use since 1967. It is slightly modified, with a different stock and pistol grip. The deal also included the purchase of 6500 HK MP7. Delivery is expected in the first half of 2008.

-Turkey - Turkish Army has tested 9,000 units of the HK416 manufactured domestically as the Mehmetçik 1 by MKE, and decided to adopt it as a replacement for the currently issued G3 rifle. The Mehmetçik-1 will differ from the original HK416 in some details, like the use of a different metal alloy in its construction. This will probably to allow MKE to manufacture the rifle by the cheaper and simpler procedure of Metal Injection Molding rather than forging.

-United Kingdom - The HK416 is used by the British Special Air Service

-United States - It is used by the U.S. Army's 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta, various other Special Operations Command units including DEVGRU, US Capitol Police SWAT, and the US Army's Asymmetric Warfare Group. "

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk416-hk417-hq/75757-current-list-hk416-417-mil-le-end-users.html

>>33125043
>>33125063
>What operators use makes it a good general issue service rifle!

>>33125063
>Mehmetçik

>>33125079
>>33125081
Turks making a cockroach model 416 doesn't exactly count, but the rest of them speaks for itself.
Also, the marines are trying to adopt it under the guise of replacing their LMGs (which they won't, but don't tell congress).

>>33125111
There is nothing superior about it that justifies the extra $2000 over an M4A1 in general issue.

>>33125128
I guess you know so much more about the cost-benefit ratio in military rifles than all these procurement agencies. Be sure to tell them, they will surely accept your superior reasoning.

>>33125142
It's what the US Army says every time this shit comes up, but what do you know?

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>>33125142
>He thinks organizational procurement is rational, cogent, and salient

Oh you sweet summer child

>>33125079
Why do you guys get so upset about DI platforms dying?

What are you gonna do when the system is dead for good?

>>33125164
>DI
>Dying
kek, good one. Nobody's replacing any Stoner pistons with overhead pistons. They're just replacing one overhead model with another.

>>33125183
Nobody is going to replace the musket, it's far superior

>>33125149
>>33125153
It's almost as if different groups with different priorities could make different decisions.
>>33125128
>There is nothing superior about it that justifies the extra $2000 over an M4A1 in general issue.
>rejects replacement programs for their aging rifles every other year because it's too expensive
That's exactly what you're doing here, isn't it?

>>33125196
>Hey, check out my false equivalency!

>>33125208
>That's exactly what you're doing here, isn't it?
What, exactly, about the 416 justifies the extra cost when considering that it will be multiplied by nearly a million units? That's an extra $2b being spent for little real effect.

>>33125252
Honestly, the 416 may be too expensive for what it offers for mass armies (apparently not so for operators or countries with too much money) but it does prove the DI AR15 can be improved upon.

Of course, this very same thread has people claiming that the 433 was shit for being cheaper than the 416, when the very point is to both be cheap AND better than the old AR15.

>>33124748
The Poles have a really freakin' NATO PK. From what I've read it's as great as one would expect.

>>33125252
2 billion for people who actually live and die by their rifles is worth more than 2 trillion on a plane that will never ever see combat. Shut it about the costs already.

>>33125404
>2 trillion on a plane
Oh, hey, the meme number is inflated yet again, and still completely wrong.
>that will never ever see combat
You mean the one the Marines already have deployed as an operational unit in Japan, and will be in the Middle East next year?

>2 billion for people who actually live and die by their rifles
You've yet to provide any evidence that that extra $2b buys any appreciable improvements that easier fixes like non-tilt magazine followers and upgraded ammo provided.

>Shut it about the costs already.
Stop being retarded.

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>>33124551
>t is not being bought by the Russian army any longer.
because RPK-16 is a thing

>>33125483
>because RPK-16 is a thing

Except that isn't standard issue at all? :)

>>33123756
The 416 is basically an extra heavy, extra expensive piston AR. They just did a great job of building it up to take abuse. They're making this to appeal to a broader market. But you wont see any civilian models for a year or two.

>>33125478
I must also add on that that $2b doesn't cover the related expenses, namely:
Completely replacing entire parts spare supply system.
Completely replacing every rifle rack in every arms room.
Retraining every armorer.
Disposal of old rifles and parts, since none of them are legal to sell on the civilian market.

>>33125164
AR isn't DI, and it's never going to go away.

>>33124076
Actually, I tihnk the ACR is starting to get an aftermarket, they're actually gonna start pushing caliber conversions liked they promised a long fuckin' time ago.

>>33125656
I just want interchangeable pistol grips.

>>33125656
>I tihnk the ACR is starting to get an aftermarket
After the recall for going full-auto without cause I don't think Shrubmaster can really salvage that thing.

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>>33125680

MSBS might become what the ACR should have been.

>>33125711
Or it might just be vapor

>>33125670
Yeah, that really would be nice.
>>33125680
First I've heard of that issue, did some research, that was back in 2010, apparently that's been fixed.

>>33125711
>MSBS
Oh yeah, that, the day that thing comes to the US market I am gonna be buying at least one. Looks nice, and apparently Radom's building a factory in Texas if I remember?

>>33125621
>You won't see any civilian models for a year or two

Uhhh...MR556?

>>33125735
>Looks nice, and apparently Radom's building a factory in Texas if I remember?
Allegedly, but it's turning out to be a clusterfuck that will never happen.

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>>33124530
RPK is an automatic rifle, which suppresses by accuracy while being lighter. Automatic rifles didn't really catch on because 30 round magazines in a heavy barreled rifle wasn't that much of an improvement, a real automatic rifle should be like pic related.

>>33125755
hes talking about the new gun you mong

>>33125916
Ah. It would appear reading comprehension is something I do not possess.

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>>33124309
>Why switch to open bolt based on heat?
To increase accuracy of cold gun.

>>33124420
>To risk a cookoff even on a modern closed-bolt gun you need to fire a fairly obscene amount of ammo in a short period of time
Pic related. Obscene amount of ammo.

>>33126186
Such accuracy requirements.

>>33126201
Full auto weapons aren't known for tight groupings.

>>33126226
4.5-7moa on semi isnt really good for semi either

>>33126226
except when the full auto weapon is nothing but a glorified 416 with heavy barrel that can also fire in semi

and what is the difference between (T) and (O) ?

>>33123756
>still fresh HK 416
AR 15s haven't been fresh in a long time.

>>33126226
>he doesn't know about Hatchcock sniping VC with a M2

>>33124551
>The problem was that the RPD really wasn't very good at its job.
The main problem with RPD was that Degtyarev was dead and Kalashnikov was alive.

>>33124665
>Why even have a 5.56 LMG when the PKM exists?
PKM is kinda heavy for infantry squad, it fails behind in off hand standing shooting.

>>33124412
>>>33123695 (OP)
>that ugly AR clone is a ugly AR clone
>have a uglier AR clone

>>33126201
>Such accuracy requirements.
M855 acceptance standard is 5.5MOA so yeah asking for 4.5 MOA was kinda stupid lol.

>>33126354
the corp is supposed to be 318

>>33126246
>(T)
Threshold.

>(O)
Objective.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_Performance_Parameters

>>33126368
>318
Adopted in 2010. IAR request rolled out in 2006.

>>33123695
They already have a German AR, why are they making another one?

The 416 is a perfectly fine rifle.

>>33126516
too expensive for the G36 replacement trials

>>33126516
Can use G-36-like lower. G-36 manual of arms and mags for German army.

>>33126548
>manual of arms
I wish this meme would die. A professional soldier should not have any trouble whatsoever transitioning to a new rifle. It's not fucking rocket science.

>>33126730
Muscle memory can be a bitch though.

>>33126730
Germany is a conscript force.

>>33124152
I agree. Countries who don't spend 2% of their GDP in defense should be left to fend for themselves.

>>33126781
Pretty sure Germany ended conscription, unless I'm mistaken.

>>33126797
>Pretty sure Germany ended conscription, unless I'm mistaken.
>what is reserve force the main reason behind consription

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What is the guesstimate on pricing if it hits the civie market

>>33127349
$3k

>>33127349
>What is the guesstimate on pricing if it hits the civie market

It's cheaper to produce than the MR556/MR223, but keep in mind that this is HK...

The UMP was specifically designed to be multiple times cheaper than the MP5 and look how much price difference they sold it...

*sigh*

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>>33127412
>The UMP was specifically designed to be multiple times cheaper than the MP5 and look how much price difference they sold it...

And yet I still fucking bought one lel

>>33127437
>And yet I still fucking bought one lel

That's alright son, we all make mistakes.

>>33127412
You do realize civilian prices ≠ government/LE prices right?

>>33127498
Not a mistake by a longshot it is my favorite one to shoot out of any that I own by far

>>33125063
>-United States - It is used by the U.S. Army's 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta, various other Special Operations Command units including DEVGRU, US Capitol Police SWAT, and the US Army's Asymmetric Warfare Group. "


ive heard something about the US marines are buying it too

>>33123695
Oh look, the ACR that should have been.

Magpul committing suicide

>>33123695

What is the second barrel for....shotgun?

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looks kinda familiar flimflam

>>33125252

Except the Marines can replace EVERY M4A1 in service head for head with the M27IAR for less than $550 million. That's without changing the magazines or anything else since pretty much EVERY modular accessory is going to fit on the M27 that fit on the M4A1 while giving the average marine a much more reliable way to reach out and touch enemy combatants and not rely on CAS and other shit to hit someone using an AK at 500m outside of the SAW gunner.

If it WAS going to cost $2 billion then they should spend the extra $1.4 billion on designing a functioning casket mag for every soldier and replacing 5.56 with some 6.5/6.8 round to further improve individual soldier performance.

>>33123695
I kinda looks like someone took an AR-15, and modified it slightly for modern tastes.
It's going to be heavier than an AR, that's for sure, but the folding stock makes up for that.

>>33127612
Meanwhile the Green Berets still mostly use the M4A1.

It's almost like only a couple small groups are going for it.

>>33127625
That's the adjustable gas block for the piston, dummy.

>>33127664
>Branch with only ~200,000 members
>Implying it's the same as the million-strong Army
>Implying the "everybody gets an M27" shit isn't just Marines trying to maintain special snowflake status

>>33127612
US marines bought the M27 version

>>33124155
Source: my ass
German military politics basically revolved around peaceful coexistence with neighbouring countries.
The idea is that you cant get attacked from the west, because France is in the way and if you attack from the east you have atleast Poland or the balkans buying you some time.

>>33128117
And having US forces take the brunt of the defense.

>>33123695
>Is this your new wet dream /k/?

>5.56
Nope.

>>33128192
Yes, pretty much.
Its the modern german politic of
>i'm sure if shtf we'll have enough time to deal with x

>>33128216
That's always been their MO. Lebensraum of Nazi Germany, Austria-Hungary, HRE, Pagan Germania, Germans kept chugging because they knew there was always a more prudent or immediate target.

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>>33128216
>>33128250
>yfw nazis actually start planning ahead

>>33123695
>No HK slap

Dropped. Otherwise it looks great.

>>33128496
The slap is unfortunately a thing of the past now. It will be missed.

>>33123695
I unironically like my ACR and I like most HK products I've played with so yes I would like a Hk433

>>33124076
>Oshit better change out my barrel during this building assault

>>33123695

Unless it does something substantially different than what's already offered on the market, I have no interest.

>Aluminum rifle designed to cut costs for a country that is replacing its current polymer rifle designed to cut costs because said rifle from the same manufacturer could not cut costs while creating a rifle that can function without issues under standard combat environments
If by wet dream you mean comedic material then yes, it sure is.

>>33123756
Nothing you said is grounded in reality. Not one single bit of it.

>>33129305
You are just upset that Beretta btfo

>>33129305
>Ursulas accuracy tests

>standard combat environment

Holy shit just stick to larping and airshit you fucking nerd

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>>33126264
Simpler times.

>>33127349
All your money

>>33123695
Nice gun Johann.

>>33123695
>6r rifling
HK had one fucking job.

Anyway, I don't see how it's so great, and I don't know why people are calling it an AR18 clone, it hasn't got an AR-style bolt.

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>>33131758
>it hasn't got an AR-style bolt.
>funktionsprinzip
>Function principle
>Kerzhub-Gasdrucklader mit Drehkopfverschluss
>Candle stroke gas pressure loader with rotary head closure
It's labeled exactly the same as the G36, which is an AR-18 clone.

>>33123695
Not really. Barrel's too short

>>33123695
It's pretty nice desu

>>33133535
>416
>850 RPM
Guarantee that thing's going to have some insane parts wear over the years. Overgassed to hell. At least it's reliable in adverse conditions, I guess.

>>33123695
Daily reminder that HK hates you and thinks you suck.

>>33127664
Man I hate you M27 memesters.

>>33133535
I really don't understand why Europeans think its okay to use a period as a thousand separator and a comma as a decimal. Pantsu on head retarded.

The HK433 weights seem like estimations rather than real measurements, but if we take it for its word then it seems that its barrel will be of a lighter profile than the HK416?

>>33123695

Is that a fucking G3 charging handle tho?

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>>33123695
Needs more barrel and the mag well is too big to accept quad stack mags.

>>33127664
They aren't going to do that. Not for a gun times the cost of the M4. The generals have said as much. Not everyone is getting the super accurate mega rifle. Just the marines that are good enough to use it.

>>33134422
It's available in other lengths

>>33124335
The marines never specifically requested a gun that could switch between open and closed bolt, just a gun that could be used in a more usual infantryman role and as a SAW.

Having a open/closed setting isn't a bad idea but making it automatically change due to temperature is retarded. It means you weapon is going to start functioning differently at some point that varies depending on the air temperature, and insanely increases the maintenance compexity of the weapon. If FN had just put a fucking switch it probably would have been fine but they had to be special snowflakes.

>>33123756
see
>>33123769
G36 with a single piece integral aluminum upper/full-run top rail. Which is definite improvement on the G36.

>>33125883
Do bipods really improve combat effectiveness?

>>33123695
Can HK stop with that proprietary key-mod wanna be shit?

>>33134665
They are the only weapons manufacturer in europe, so no.

>>33134782
Beretta.

>>33134782
FN

>>33125372
>but it does prove the DI AR15 can be improved upon

No its a trade-off like anything else.
It's a pound and a half heavier, all nose end.

But the benefit of the 416 is better reliability with suppressed SBRs specifically.

>>33134782
CZ

>>33123695
Only if it means HK will sell all of their G36's.

Melting will hardly be a concern in semi-auto only and when you live in cold conditions.

>>33134782
Zastava

>>33134883
Serb here. What other european militaries have Zastava shit for general issued kit?

I think Zastava is fantastic quality but come on. Even M21 (aka modern m70 in 5556 with RAILS) didnt sell that fucking great.

>>33134924
He just said there where no other weapons manufacturers in Europe not if they have good contracts right now.

>>33134924
I would presume some other Balkan countries (like Macedonia) use Zastava stuff, or have leftovers from Yugoslavia.

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>>33134949
The point I was trying to make was that Zastava is still a very low-level player on the european level. They sell a bit to Asia and Africa and some balkan countries who, like you said, inherited some quantities after the breakup of Yugoslavia, but that's that. M21 has been around for over a decade and m70 is still a main general issue assault rifle. And the m21 doesn't even have rails in its basic version.

The are just not relevant. FN, Beretta and HK is all there is really. Can't blame everyone for wanting HK.

>>33123695
No, because H&K hates civilians so we'll never get one

>>33134782
I'm counting seven producers of ar15 variants in germany alone.

>>33134782
Sako. Glock. SIG. Accuracy International. Steyr Mannlicher. Walther.

>>33134348
>but if we take it for its word then it seems that its barrel will be of a lighter profile than the HK416?
No shit maybe read the thread sherlock.

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>>33123695
Does it come in 7.62x51? If not no

>>33133535
>Kerzhub-Gasdrucklader mit Drehkopfverschluss
>Candle stroke gas pressure loader with rotary head closure

Not kerzhub cleetus
Kurzhub which means Short stroke gas piston

>>33135788
Google translate can be goofy. First try it didn't even translate kerzhub.