Luger

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Too complex to manufacture and make a profit.

Modern guns such a Glock and other use polymers and stamped parts.

I suppose if there was an efficient way to make them, they'd turn a profit.

I dunno about a luger, but I'd kill for a toggle lock rifle like a pederson.

>>33111754
Reproductions of a luger would cost more than an actual luger, with the added detraction of not being a piece of history.

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>>33111754
There's a company in Germany that makes new Lugers. I can never remember their name.

>>33111854
Why? Why are they so complex? I don't know shit about them

>>33111754
A company did.

It didn't sell

and it cost way more than $400

>>33111861
erma werke, they ran out of money in 1998 making expensive clones

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erma_Werke

>>33111869
The toggle lock mechanism is complicated by design. It's neat to see but not fun to manufacture.

>>33111869

They're not exactly complicated, per se, but the gun was designed in a era when skilled labor was cheap. The whole mechanism is full of difficult machining, tight tolerances, and fine steel.

Wouldn't be surprised if a new reproduction cost around $2500 unless they cheaped out on making it.

Even the German army knew it was too expensive in the 1930s and that's where the P38 came from.

>why doesn't a company just remake the STG44?

>company remakes STG44
>Wah this isn't tit for tat EXACTLY the same as a WW2 era wartime production STG44 that will fall apart after 3,000 rounds!
>four different calibers! I don't need that quit wasting time
>$1,600!?! this is unacceptable I won't buy it!

>Somebody should seriously re-manufacture whatever I think looks cool and cannot afford an original of at the moment though

>>33112161
This
So fucking much this
Most people are fucking morons and dont know shit about history, tecnology or the free marked

>>33111754
To complex to profit from.

On a related note there was an engineering report done by a student at a university a while back and in it he determined that a Swiss K31 made today to all the original specifications and quality of the original would cost $4500 to manufacturer. Kind of cool desu.

I dunno, people always say they'd be too expensive to make. It's true that they WERE expensive to make for sure, the milling machines they were pumping them out on had like 90 different attachments for making all those weird ass cuts the Luger has on it. It would be neigh impossibly to do them manually.

However, we have a little something called a CNC machine which would make that process significantly easier.

However, almost every part on the Luger was hand-fitted, so either the blueprint would have to be tweaked, or they'd have to hire gunsmiths en mass and that's what would get expensive.

Still, I could see it being a solid $1000 retail in today's dollars. Sounds like a lot, but think about how many companies are making unimpressive $1000 1911s today. For the same price, I'd take the Luger.

They already tried.

Nobody bought any.

>>33112406
That number would realistically be more like 3-5 grand

>>33112452
Based on what? I don't see how or why it would be even close to that number.

>>33111813
>polymer
You mean plastic. Wood is a polymer.

>>33111754
>Why doesn't a company just remake the Luger?

Because if they did it would either cost $5k or look nothing like a P08 Luger.

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>>33111861
Are you thinking of Waffen-Werle?
They make different Lugers as well like the crazy carbine versions you occasionally see being posted. All their original designs are new parts but I believe they also make/piece together original spec guns.

>>33112161
I don't care about calibers, but the stampings look like garbage. I don't mind if there's some improvements or manufacturing differences to reduce the cost of the gun, but it should at least look similar to the original.

>>33112406
>However, we have a little something called a CNC machine which would make that process significantly easier.
let ian school you on this concept
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSCk7dKSudU

>>33112599
"In a three-axis CNC machine"

We're up to six now, I believe.

>>33112688
if you redesign it to be friendly for cnc it wont be a luger and the autists who werent going to buy it anyways will raise a shitfit

>>33112688
Now find me a large enough customer base that's willing to spend enough money to justify either purchasing a machine as expensive as that, or diverting one (or if I'm actually trying to get these out the door in a timely manner, several) of my machines' production away from something that actually makes me money (like aircraft or ship parts) towards this little side-project.

Lugers are cool and all, but they're not exactly uncommon. Real ones are relatively cheap.

>>33112161
That piece of shit doesn't look right, is too expensive to just be another 5.56 rifle and jammed 2 times in 5 rounds. Tell me exactly what it does do right

>>33112464
>plastic
>not a polymer

>>33112753
Replicate an STG44 with materials and manufacturing processes that will not cause it to break before you do.

>>33111754
>Why doesn't a company just remake the Luger?

The costs of retooling to appease a niche market doesn't make sense to most major manufactures.

Wouldn't people buy it?

Maybe, but considering a large batch of authentic ones from both wars still exists, it wouldn't outweigh the cost of manufacturing it. Even more obscure pieces like the STG-44 rarely gain traction in the reproduction market.

>>33112764
Replicate is a strong word, I think resemble is a bit closer. And even then it's still just stamped steel, it's not like they drastically improved it, the majority of changes were cost cutting or to allow it to be marketed to mall ninjas. The "more durable than wartime production" spiel was made up after the fact and you know it.

>>33112572
i would appendix carry that little baby all day every day

mauser c96 red 9 goes for 4k here in US. even then it's not a gun that people would take out to the range all day.

If I ever win lotto I would use the money to start a 1000 production with modern mauser and sell 999 pistol.

>>33111754
they have been reproduced a handful of times but it's never successful because A) it's expensive B) scary nazi tool of death
the most recent reproduction I'm aware of was in the early 90s, they sold for about $400. don't recall the company.

>>33112836
Was it the "American eagle" by like Stoeger?

>>33113001
that does sound familiar but I'm not certain

>>33112753
>jammed 2 times in 5 rounds
P R O T O T Y P E .
R
O
T
O
T
Y
P
E
.

>>33112464
Are you retarded?

>>33111754
Old guns often need entire factories set up for producing just them. Highly specialiced clamps, holds and machinery. Its not really economical since the demand is not really justifiying the manufacture.

>>33112289
Quite impressive regarding that they were made at a price of 14 swiss francs. After inflation thatd be 94 swiss francs per rifle.

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>>33112464

>>33112406
Swiss machinist here, no, just no.
Holy shit, to even think about trying to mill some of these pieces on my mill, fuck me. How to clamp them. Dear lord.

>>33113178
>Old guns often need entire factories set up for producing just them. Highly specialized clamps, holds and machinery.
this shouldn't be the case anymore a 4 axis CNC mill can do any operation needed to make a older gun.

>>33112695
>autists who couldn't afford to buy it anyways
ftfy

>>33112464
Wood isn't a polymer, it's a composite.

>>33112599
He's making it sound more arduous than it really is. A lot of his complexity comes from his desire to do surface finishing at the perpendicular angle, which is completely unnecessary. In any case, a multi-axis machine would be able to do that with ease. It wouldn't be as big a problem as he claims to make these parts.

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>>33112572
>All their original designs are new parts
they use a lot of original guns and the new parts are the ones that make them into oddball weapons.

>>33111754
there is a company making new lugers only they happen to cost $5000 if you wanted one in the $400 price range it could only maybe happen in Canada because of import restrictions on Norinco that killed the clone they were making

>>33112598
>it should at least look similar to the original
it does look similar though, the metal finish could be more consistent but it meets your stated criteria

>>33112753
One of reasons it looks different is to prevent you to put original trigger group and make it full auto.

>>33113001
The American Eagle lugers imported during their original production runs

>>33112161
>>Wah this isn't tit for tat EXACTLY the same as a WW2 era wartime production STG44 that will fall apart after 3,000 rounds!
I think you might be bullshitting a bit there anon seeing as how theres still perfectly functional collectors pieces and ones in use over in Syria

>>33113228
Simon?

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>>33113317
Wrong. Wood is a polymer because it contains cellulose. "Space age polymer" handgun frames are polymer because they contain nylon.

>>33113794
Wrong.

>>33113826
If wood isn't a polymer then neither is nylon plastic. So your polymer gun isn't polymer at all, just plastic.

>>33112464
Not this shit again

>>33113833
Wrong.

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>>33111754
I'm Austrian and I know a lake that 10000 of them, new in grease paper, were dumped into, along with other shit like munitions etc. The lake is restricted military area though. Allegedly RAF got some of their shit from there. There are lots of urban legend type stories about that, like the lake has such deep amd anoxic mud that all the stuff is kept in basically pristine condition...

>>33113833
The cellulose of the wood is a biopolymer but the wood itself isnt

And plastic is a synthetic polymer so stfu

>>33114047
Then lets start an operation bergjude

>>33113425
Those collectors pieces are either never fired or rebuilt every year by a highly specialized gunsmith, and the Syrian dig-ups were NIB. They will not last. The -44 was by every possible measure a last-ditch panic weapon made of horrible steel. The 4,000 round lifespan comes from German manuals themselves. If you lean the gun against a table and knock it over, the receiver will kink, and the gun is totalled.

The fact working examples exist is a miracle of preservation.

>>33111754

Inrange tv answered;

>demographic base not big enough to get the tools, etc
>modern handguns are better


Tbh I'm kinda impressed that hmg is making a stg 44 repro

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>>33112572

WHAT IS THIS ABOMINATION!?!

>>33112406
>Still, I could see it being a solid $1000 retail in today's dollars.
>Hur CNC
Have you ever run one? They're not some sort of magic mill that makes whatever you want at the press of a button. The only thing a CNC can do that's really special is very exact repeatability. And they are fucking expensive.

>>33113412
And tell me, who fucking has an original trigger group just laying around?

That's a bullshit reason and you know it.

>>33112161
You just summed up this shithole in a post.

>>33114580
>They're not some sort of magic mill that makes whatever you want at the press of a button
No that's pretty much exactly what they are. At least by the point of you putting your forging/billet into it.

The template it follow and the fixture you use to hold shit are made well before anybody goes anywhere near the mill. And they're the expensive parts, but they last basically forever.
>pay some Poo in the Loo $10/hr to model [gun] in Solidworks
>use this to figure out dimensions of your fixture
>outsource fixture to China for a couple grand
>load CAD file into CNC mill, insert and center your fixture, drop in your forging, press button, receive gun.

You're looking at around $150,000 for a 4-axis CNC machine, you subcontract the CAD design so you can't get sued if whatever shitbag you're paying hourly pirated their CAD software, and you're pretty much left with a 1-time cost for your fixture and tool wear. The biggest expenses are licensing.

>>33114047
>>33114047
Please tell us more!

>>33111754
Lol, try $4000.

>>33113779
No.

>>33114912
>>33114414

There is not much to tell, I don't know if there are really 10k Lugers in there but the military/police restricted area stuff is real. You can't go swimming and especially not snorkeling there.

>>33115021
Ok we need a planning comitee. We need to distract the gendarmes. We need a way to locate the chests under water in slick. We need a fast extraction with enough carry capacity.

>>33112161

The auto industry is worse about this.

>Why doesn't somebody make a lightweight, RWD, affordable sports coupe? I'd buy one in a heartbeat!
>Toyota makes the GT86 which is exactly all of those things
>ONLY 200HP?!?! WTF HOW CAN I DRAG RACE KIDS WITH V6 MUSTANGS AT STOPLIGHTS?!
>A LOW-SLUNG BOXER ENGINE?! IT NEEDS A TURBO OR A V8 SWAP EVEN THOUGH IVE NEVER DRIVEN ONE EVER
>IT'S SO UGLY!! WHY ISN'T IT A BOXY BOX LIKE THE AE86 BECAUSE MUH INITIAL D?!
>WTF $24,000?!?! IF IT WAS $20,000 I'D BUY ONE BUT $24,000 IS TOO EXPENSIVE. NEVERMIND THAT'S ONLY A FEW EXTRA BUCKS A MONTH TO FINANCE YEP I'D TOTALLY PLUNK DOWN $20K NOT $24 IT'S OVER-PRICED EVEN THOUGH IT'S A FIRST-RUN PERFORMANCE CAR I DON'T UNDERSTAND DEVELOPMENT COSTS AT ALL

about the STG44

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQxwVY7ziKs
InRangeTV
HMG Q&A Session 1: StG44 reproduction & more!

>>33115098
I wish I had the credit to buy a gt86, I seriously believe it to be the Datsun 240 of our era.

>>33111754
Lugers were hand fit and take an extraordinary amount of complex things to make. So while they are neat, new production would be far from cheap. You are now aware, however, that Norinco had Luger machining and plans for the American market when the Norinco ban hit effectively killing it.

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>>33112464
Oh Mr. Vice President, I see a faggot over here!

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>>33114600
>That's a bullshit reason and you know it.
Not according to the ATF, it isn't.

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I love mine, for some reason it never occurred to me that they'd eject upwards

>>33112599
This in a cnc horizontal mill and its a 2 op job that needs 2 setups and 1 machined fixture.

>>33112161
>>33115098
I love you guys

>>33112161
Fucking this.

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>>33115098
>Performance car
>200HP

>>33113400
Looking at them side by side the stampings look nothing like the original. Hell, they could've even got creative if they couldn't make it 1:1 with the original, but three stamped parallel lines is just lazy.

>>33111754
I think Ian-Sempai talked about this once. Basically Lugers are hard to make, because we would deliberately have to use old and inferior manufacturing techniques that are more expensive than the modern ways.

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>>33114545
I don't know, but I want it.