Does /k/ acknowledge that American dogshit HK416s and M16s are

>Does /k/ acknowledge that these guns OP has never touched are inferior these other guns OP has never touched
Explain your reasoning.

>>33102834
Those mags are shit.

>>33102834
AK12 yes (RIP)
AK103 no

>>33102857
Well if I was to be slightly hyperbolic,

Virtually no recoil, much better fire density, well optimized for suppressors, AND uses THICC 7.62x39mm rounds

Also 2 round burst at 1300 rpm is pretty neato and has even better fire density

>>33102877
Those mags are well under $15 each and operate pretty well

>>33102834
>HK416s
>H and K
>american
what. also some african armies have scar as their main battle rifle, whats other countries' excuse?

>>33102910
Those are not characteristics of either the AK-103 or the AK-12.

>>33102910
>Virtually no recoil
.223 has virtually no recoil. In fact most modern assault rifles do.
>much better fire density,
What does this mean?
>well optimized for suppressors,
As is the 416
>AND uses THICC 7.62x39mm rounds
x39 is shit, it is only still used because 5.45 performs terribly in foliage
>Also 2 round burst at 1300 rpm is pretty neato and has even better fire density
SALVO is an absurd meme that the west rightly ditched in the 70s, the only reason the Russians are even giving it a look in is because they are too poor and bad at distribution to get proper AP weapons (eg.9x39) in the hands of those that need them.

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>>33102834
I don't even think much about slavshit or ARs

MANUAL
OF
ARMS
A hundred years and Ivan has still yet to fix such basic problems. Wake me when there is an AK that can be operated with only the shooting hand leaving the weak hand free to grab mags or charge the handle.

>>33102952
There are AP cartridges in 5.45 and 7.62x39.

>>33102834
>HK-416
>American
Fuck no.
And yeah an M16A1 is inferior to a modern production non-shot-out AK of just about any form.
>>33102970
You have obviously never used an AK.
You can do everything with your weak hand just as easily as with an AR, it just has a slightly different manual of arms.

>>33102834
>side mount and dust cover rails in 2017

>>33102993
both of them are old as fuck tho. early 2000 I think.

>>33102952
>x39 is shit, it is only still used because 5.45 performs terribly in foliage
It is used because of suppression. Basically 300 BLK is replication of what soviets did in 1960.

>>33103011
2016 version of AK-12 still uses dust cover rail lul.

>>33102984
I OWN an AK. It is a slow gun to operate, period. One handed mag release is awkward and requires huge, long fingers. I can do it since a double stack .45 1911 fits well in my hand, but for Russians with tiny slav conscription hands, this is not an option. No LRBHO device, and it would be in some awkward location if there was. Fire selector cannot be operated one handed, and the mechanism it uses to operate has inherently high resistance making the hackjobs that add a tokarev safety-like thumb toggle pointlessly stiff.

I will say it again. When an AK exists that fixes the myriad of problems that the AK has in general operation and enables shooting-hand-only manipulation of the weapons functions, I will reconsider it. But the fact that the vast majority of all nations militaries and competition shooters see the AR manual of arms to be much faster, and rightly so, speaks volumes.

>>33102970
>. Wake me when there is an AK that can be operated with only the shooting hand leaving the weak hand free to grab mags or charge the handle.
This meme manual of arms is wrong. You should do things with dominant hand not with weak hand.

>>33102970
Literally the ak12

>>33103039
>removing your trigger-pulling hand from the grip
>ever
No. All controls should be within reach of the thumb or trigger finger of the dominant hand, mags should drop free, and the charging handle should be ambi and set to be grabbed most easily from the supporting arm. Anything that requires unshouldering the rifle or unhanding the pistol grip is wrong.

>>33102834
>HK416s
>american

wut

>>33103031
As someone else who owns an AK (a polish kit build I did myself) I disagree on the part of one handed mag releases sucking.
They're not that hard to do and neither is charging the rifle with your weak hand.

No, it's not the most amazing thing in the world BUT considering how little it has changed since it was invented (yeah they fiddled with gas block angles and they made the reciever out of sheet metal stamping) it still stands out as a fairly good design.

I will also say this though.
If properly updated with, say, an HK style bolt catch, a slightly enlarged paddle release, and mags that catch on the last round to enable easy use of the HK style catch became the standard then the only problem would be the safety.

That would be something that could be remedied by adding an FN-49 style dust cover and going to a different safety design.
I believe it would be considered at least as good as an AR if these changes became standard but hey, what do I know.
I'm just some fucker on an anonymous Laotian sock puppetry forum.

However I for one like how positive and simple an AK safety is.

>>33103093
Oh, and I'll also so it doesn't require a FUCKING buffer tube.
I mean, cone the fuck on, it's several years older than the AR and the AR itself is already 50 years old and we still have yet to make something without that pain in the ass mainstream.
Seriously.
HOW. THE FUCK. HAVE WE NOT FIGURED OUT A SIMPLE SOLUTION TO THIS.

>>33103072
>Anything that requires complex manipulations with weak hand is wrong
Fixed for ya. Seriously trying to take out mags form pouches and putting them back with weak hand at the same time balancing all rifle's weight on the wrist. What sort of circus is this?

Desperately clutching to the pistol grip all the time has no value.

>>33103126
There are three or four companies who have, mainstream ones too. It's not a huge improvement.

>>33103016
The round maybe, but the AK? No.

>>33103137
I meant in the sense of it being a standard thing on your average AR, not some boutique shit that I have to sell one of my kidneys to afford.

>>33103147
Round and concept of of weapon that can shot both suppressed subsonic (big enough to make sense) and supersonic all in same gun just with the switch of the mag.

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>>33103131
Are you serious?

>>33103031
>One handed mag release is awkward and requires huge, long fingers.
Are you talking about an admin reload? Who cares how fast it is? If you are speed reloading and sweeping the mag out with your thumb with the fresh mag in your hand there is no problem. That is how I do it. "Long fingers" are not needed.
>No LRBHO device
You have a point here, but it only takes a second to slightly tilt the gun and reach underneath to charge it after a reload. It is akward until you get used to it.
>Fire selector cannot be operated one handed
You mean holding the gun with only one hand only? Why do you need that? I can manipulate the safety by sweeping my middle finger of my firing hand while bring the gun up from low ready without slowing down.

These are training obstacles that make you slightly slower, at worst by a fraction of a second. Luck will be more important than anything on those timescales. Quit bitching.

>>33102834
I'll acknowledge this as soon as they put better irons (i.e. rear peep site and longer site radius) and either make the dust cover more sturdy to allow mounting optics or come up with a way of mounting optics that's allows a cheek weld and not a chin weld.

>HK416
>American
Keklmao

>>33103174
The AK leaks gas. It is not a better suppressor host. Swap the barrel of your AR to 300blk and you get all the benefits you mentioned and it will be quieter too.

>>33103272
Explain advantages of doing complex manipulations with weak hand. Better probability of dropping mag in the mud?

>>33103324
>longer site radius
Comparing a standard AR that uses the gas block/sight combo with a standard AK that doesn't, you will see the site radius is nearly the same length.
>come up with a way of mounting optics that's allows a cheek weld and not a chin weld.
They already have this. I can lower third co-witness my irons using my side mounted red dot.

>>33103324
Better for what?
Long range target shooting?

The problem people seem to forget with this argument is that while the AR is a gun and cartridge combo taken from the concept of extremely light recoil means more rounds in one place for longer range shooting (think scaled down battle rifle) the AK is essentially the concept of an SMG taken to the logical extreme.

One is meant for long range focused fire and the other is mean to be spraying from one building to another or the quickly point down a hallway.
The iron sights used for them both reflect these concepts.
AKs sights point rather naturally and are excellent for shooting targets in quick succession in close proximity.
If I want a long range fighting rifle I'll take an AR with the nice sights and excellent barrel harmonics.

>>33103383
We're not exactly talking about fine motor skills here, bro. If you can't hold onto things with your offhand then that is a personal problem.

>>33102834
bait

>>33102834
ITT: noguns

>>33103383
>not dropping the empty mag
the point is being able to reload the gun in under a second. Ideally half of a second. You can't do that if you have to grab anything but a new mag with your off hand.

>>33103422
I...what?
Why the fuck is a half second reload necessary outside of competitions?
I mean, I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that once you start to get to the sub 7 second reload time with anything you're about fine for any home defense scenario you could ever need short of duckling ninjas or some shit and who the hell pisses off ninjas.

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>>33103454
>7 second reload time

>>33103479
If you're retaining your mags then yeah, 7 seconds.

If I'm not then I can reliably go down to about 2 seconds.

>>33103454
Dude if you're taking seven seconds to reload the gun has nothing to do with it. Even with retention. The drop bag exists for a reason.

And yes. Home defense, you're not going to reload. At all. If you can't solve the problem in 30 rounds it's because of one of two things;
1. The Feds are the ones breaking in
2. The Chinese are the ones breaking in
You are fucked in either case. So as far as I can possibly be concerned, the only other real thing left to worry about is using the gun for competition, which it is not conducive to if you can't match those reload speeds. If you yourself can't actually perform reloads to the point that it's a problem, well, enjoy never breaking out of MM.

>>33103422
>the point is being able to reload the gun in under a second.
It works only the shooting range You will not find single combat video with such trickery.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7lFUUl0q88
Look at how much soldiers fiddles with mag and how he "maintains shouldering of the gun" in process.

>>33103403
People can do things with weak hand but with dominant hand they do them better and more reliable. What is the purpose of intentionally doing things worse?

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This 50 year old gun is a hundred times better than those shitty ak's.

>>33103656
How does that matter? Nobody here is in three military.

>>33103489
>retaining an empty mag in a home defense scenario
How fucking dumb are you?

>>33103697
Because HK416s, M16s, AK103 and AK12 are military guns. Civilians can't own them.

>>33103422
How fucking slow do you reload your AK?

>implying you have one

>>33103656
>slower is better
>weak hand is not reliable
Normal people can use both hands to accomplish different tasks simultaneously without any issues. Try leaving your basement once in awhile.

They're both trash.
Alpsniggers and Waffleniggers have the only good service rifles.

>>33102984
There's a reason why we use the M4 and the M16 is at M16a4.

>>33103779
>>slower is better
>implying weak hand reloads are faster in combat conditions

>Normal people can use both hands to accomplish different tasks simultaneously without any issues.
Single hand dominant people do tasks with dominant hand better and faster, this is fact.

>>33103852
Do you load your AR with only your right hand?

>>33103852
>in combat conditions
el oh fucking el

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>>33103788
There are a few flavors of alpeniggers

>>33103869
Try to find single video with sub second rifle reload in combat. Pro tip: you can't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a87AqKYxN2g
Look at this slowpoke retard. At any range his performance would be laughed off by ninja operators. But this the difference between range and combat.

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>>33102952
>proper AP weapons
>list 9x39
>not 30-06 M2

also 5.45 and 7.62 russian has steel core inside the bullet and not full lead core, and at this point it doesn't really matter if you have a good AP round when you have 1000 retards with guns firing at the same time

>ITT:people complain about AK features and completely disregard AK-12

>>33103879
Are there? I don't think I've ever seen a map of Europe with the Alps on them. Dog bless Murican education.

I meant the Swiss in any case. SG 550 is fine as fuck, and it weighs enough to make a fantastic club.

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Shitty Russian calibers make way for
S H R A P N E L
H
R
A
P
N
E
L

>>33103907
Pointing out grunts who lack proficiency because they never fucking practice or pretending you know more than the experts because you watch youtube videos is laughable and doesn't prove anything.

>>33103072
>gun is empty or malfunctioning
>I definitely positively alwaysly need my finger on the trigger
This is dumb.

>>33103719
> Civilians can't own them
> At least twenty people on /k/ own full auto as civilians

>>33103948
>literally every round comes in frangible and ballistic tip
>tfw 7.62 has HEI rounds that would split a man in two
Stop trying to snowflake ar scrub

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>>33103131
>weight
What weight? No weight here.

>>33103923
>not 30-06 M2
Because the Russians have always been such diehard proponents of 30.06

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>>33103948

>>33103966
>This is dumb.
Not an argument.

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>>33104012
You seem to have the idea that all there is to keeping the firing hand on the grip is just to actuate the trigger.

I suggest you familiarize yourself with more ergonomic rifles, your understanding of what the grown-ups are talking about will make more sense

>>33103957
>99% of assault rifle military users are not grunts or POGs who lack proficiency

>>33104048
>assault rifle military users
Wat

>>33104041
>You seem to have the idea that all there is to keeping the firing hand on the grip is just to actuate the trigger.
Yes it is also to increase chances of accidental discharge when soldier is occupied with another tasks of weapon manipulation.

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>>33104129
Your answer is to double down on stupid?

>>33104041
You seem to have quoted the wrong person.

A thumb selector and a bolt hold open or at least a chamber indicator are things that should have been added to AKs (the latest iteration has the former) but as far as the right-sided control scheme is concerned there is no real disadvantage. Topping off is the only thing you might want to do with the off hand. Everything else including clearing stoppages are better done with the more dextrous firing hand.

>>33102834
AN 94 was one of the few unique and interesting new designs any small arms had in decades
Although it basically just proved Russia doesn't have the means to produce anything really besides ak pattern rifles and can't move away from them, ever.

>>33104224
You have this odd concept that the off hand is incapable. This is incorrect and inefficient.

>>33104296
Less capable. That is all the reason I need.

>>33104048
>99% of people can't do a thing
>therefore thing is bad
Excellent logic
>>33104153
>noguns think weapons manipulation is some complex task that commonly results in ND's
lel

>>33104296
You have this odd concept that doing things with hand that performs worse is somehow better.

>>33104232
>AN 94 was one of the few unique and interesting new designs any small arms had in decades
You mean due to the pullies? Because the superfast burst function is something countless weapons have toyed with over the years, the G11 for example.
They were never going to seriously adopt something so expensive, complicated and fragile as the AN94, even if they had the means. I agree that the Russians cant ever move past the AK, but that's got no bearing on why the AN94 was ditched for all but a few irrelevant MVD units. Its more to do with the fact that disregarding SOF use, infantry rifles dont really matter at all in the grand scheme of things, so the AK is wholly adequate for the intended use.

>>33104349
>You mean due to the pullies?
Mostly because AN-94 achieved hyper-burst function with convectional ammo already used by military.

>>33104324
>Less capable
Not in a significant way. That's like catching and throwing with only one hand when you play baseball?
>implying you have athletic skill/experience
Oh, wait...

>>33104375
Hyper burst is useless.

>>33102834
what stock is that

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>>33104330
The noguns is strong with this one.

>>33104402
An-94 achieved 50% increase in hit probability shooting off-hand comparing to AK-74

>>33104392
>That's like catching and throwing with only one hand when you play baseball?
Why do baseball players wear glove on the weak hand again?

>>33104500
Well, they can do that because they are professionals who train constantly. Nosports can't catch with their offhand without falling end over end and hurting themselves.

>>33103031
Galil style fire/safe selector.
Vepr 12 style lrbho and finger push mag drop mod.

Look at some russian competition shooters and how they mod their vepr 12's some have a thumb operated safety selector on the left side too.

Sooo its definitely doable just... They're retarded...?

>>33103031
>I OWN an AK
The simple fact you had to make this statement is sad. The fact you think this makes you an authority is even more sad.

>>33103023
2016 version of AR-15 still doesnt have a folding stock and uses a dust cover lul.

Bump a 2nd time

>>33104402
It's a novel concept with some actual useful application. In small arms there really isn't a whole lot of variation or new ideas. G11 was not successful and was more based around caseless ammunition, the AN94 seemed somewhat practical in comparison.

While I agree rifles are not as important the real show is vehicles and guns, there isn't a whole lot of changes that have happened since the AK and AR showed up on the scene.

>>33104704
I have fucked with Golanis and a relative of mine has a preban Galil. The Galil style simply appends a thumb switch to the AK lever pivot. It's not a good idea, and playing with it for two seconds will show you why. It takes way too much force to actuate. Push levers, sure. Makes no less sense than a BAD lever on an AR. There's no good reason for there not to be a LRBHO except for the fact you lose access to almost 80 years of magazine production. If we could just nigger rig something that operates off an OG mag, we'd be golden.