Blowback tube guns?

>>33094322
There could be some market to it.

If I were to make a pistol caliber carbine that's aimed at selling to Canadians, I'd make it something even a fudd could appreciate, like giving it a traditional looking stock out of wood (may or may not make it easier to appease the mounties).

You could make it blowback, and that'd be cheap, but if you were to make it some kind of delayed blowback or possibly even locked breech, the gun wouldn't need to be as heavy, which would make it appeal more to sportsmen (though it'd obviously cost more). Either way I would suggest a plain little buffer piece in the rear of the receiver, nothing advanced or expensive, just a pad of neoprene or rubber to cushion the impact of the bolt hitting the back of the receiver (wont cost even a dollar), on top of putting less stress on a potential wooden stock, it makes recoil just a little less brisk, and can allow you to make a slightly shorter receiver to save more on weight.

Whatever path you travel, I'd seriously advise against using Sten or Greasegun mags, they're shite, used up, and you could only have 5 rounds. Have your carbine use a common and reliable pistol magazine, that way people can have 10 rounds, maybe a Glock, Beretta or S&W magazine.

Unless your plan is replicating the Sten or M3, in which case I wish you luck in selling them.

>>33094650
>delayed blowback
Yes, I was looking into that, but I'm still not that familiar with it. Do you know of any "builder" apps (if they even exist) that would let me play around with designs?

This kind of all started with wanting a 7.62x25 carbine.

>>33094676
Beyond CAD and maybe Pimp My Gun (for rough drafts I suppose), not really.

Know that if you're doing delayed blowback, you MUST flute the chamber or you'll get unbearable extraction problems.
Delayed blowback can really beat up on brass, but A;, it's only gonna shoot cheap pistol ammo that people don't often reload, and B; it can be solved if needed, with a so called port buffer (which you could probably simplify as a brass deflector made of suitable synthetic behind the ejection port, just bolts into the receiver in whatever way, think something like the vaguely triangular lump behind the ejection port of the M16 or C7).

Do you have a rough drawing of how you'd want the gun to look and be shaped like? Horizontal or vertical magwell?

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>>33094763
>Do you have a rough drawing of how you'd want the gun to look and be shaped like? Horizontal or vertical magwell?
Something like this,

>>33095120

Is that an MP5 buttcap?

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>>33095120
Eh, im all for pipe guns, but what about box tube guns?

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>>33095224

>>33094763
Could you explain what a fluted chamber is? I am also interested in tube guns, I have a few sa 26 parts kits I want to build, but there is little to no info on them that I can find. Making one from scratch would be really cool.

Sounds like that fag Pepe liberator shit desu.

>>33095257
On an MP5 subgun or G3 battle rifle, there are little grooves or "flutes" which are pressed or machined into the chamber of in a radial pattern. What this does is let a little bit of gas in from the bore, and kind of "cushioning" or "floating" the casing, to make extraction very easy at early, high chamber pressures.

This is needed because a delayed blowback weapon opens up and begins extraction quite early, while chamber pressure is still high, and if normal extraction is done this early, the brass can very often not handle it.

If you had a normal, non-fluted chamber on a G3 rifle, you would very frequently experience things such as the extractor tearing the rim or entire bottom of the cartridge, or the neck of a bottle necked cartridge tearing (called case head separation), and in both instances, the rest of the case stays in there, and can usually be a huge chore to get out, especially if the bolt succeded in chucking out the first part of the casing and picked up another cartridge attempting to feed it into the chamber, so now you have really annoying jam with a live cartridge (mostly) chambered.

Fluting the chamber prevents all of this. You'll get ridges running along the length of the cartridge, and the fast and violent ejection can seriously batter and destroy brass (either the brass hits the steel of the receiver and deforms there, or it hits a rock or some asphalt 5-10ft to your right).
Banged up brass is generally not a serious concern for cheap pistol cartridges like 9mm Luger or 7.62mm Tokarev though, few people bother to save and reuse that brass, or they shoot cheap steelcase ammo which nobody in their right mind would reload.

>>33095482
Speaking of which, what happened to that?

Stens need mills and lathes

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>>33094322
>>33095120

Check out this:

http://weaponeer.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25535&PN=1&SID=70C11012A2FE25AF1074509F68126B806E8

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>>33095842

>>33095614
Oh yeah, on a G3, the bolt would need a device on it called an "anti-bounce lever", as the bolt on those can actually bounce slightly after chambering, meaning it'd be possible to fire the gun slightly out of battery with bad enough timing.

On a pistol caliber like 9mm or 7.62mm, this would not be a concern and it would not be necessary.

>>33095614
Delayed blowback guns shouldn't have primary extraction, though, since the BCG is propelled by the thrust of the shell. During the initial stages of extration, I have to assume the bcg is never pulling on the rim of the cartridge since the cartridge itself will be pushing back the BCG.

Are the flutes there to stop the case from sticking midway through extraction, when the bolt group is already well underway?

>>33095751
I don't know, from what I've read on here he disappeared after receiving too much criticism for not actually showing progress

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>>33095842
>>33095875
That's such a simple and elegant design, I might save that for future inspiration.

So I've got somewhat of a question, so if the ATF defines semiautomatic as being one shot per trigger pull, and things like bump fire stocks are Ok, does anyone know of a ruling on a mechanical trigger reset?

In pic related, the travel of the bolt rearward after the shot would force the trigger forward, but the user can simply bear down on the trigger during this process, effectively mimicking full auto, but technically still requiring the trigger to be reset between shots at the cost of some mean trigger slap. I'm assuming this would mean the user has "released the trigger" in the sense that it has been returned forward to the pre-firing position, thus negating the classification of "Full Auto" fire, does anyone know of an ATF ruling on anything similar?

>Realistically, what would be the costs of tooling up say to make a semi-auto closed bolt sten, M3 grease gun, etc?

Depends on your skills, and what sort of volume and profit you're looking at.

>Kool Kids Klub
>DIY all the things, build your own mill, lathe, press brake, grinder, bandsaw, arc welder, etc.
>Practicality: low
>Cons: either have high level skills or determination, preferably both
$2,000-5,000

>Moneygrubber Deluxe
>secondhand mill and lathe, homemade press brake and other non-electric stuff, a couple new things, predominantly homemade tooling
>Practicality: medium
>Cons: takes a long time to hunt down all those bargainous basements
$10,000

>Mr Moneybags
>New hand tools, new hobbyist or refurbished industrial mills and lathes, new tooling and bits and bobs
>Practicality: high
>Cons: non-Abrahamic approach
$20,000±

Double everything for CNC, or decent profit margins.

>>33096965
assholes like that are attention whores. he's just on a different board somewhere getting his required validation

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>>33094322
How about mag fed revolver using pistol rounds?
use blowback springs, simple sliding on a rail. The butt would be making the zig zag revolver chamber that seals like a nagant 1895 revolver on the front.
3D print a master in plastic, make a ceramic mold from that. do the lost wax casting, then machine it.

There is always the PepeLeMeme rifle made as a pistol also.

>>33098604
>PepeLeMeme rifle
wut...?

Also this gif, what's the purose of having it being a revolving mag-fed? Seem's redundant.

>>33098604
>How about mag fed revolver using pistol rounds?
Because I think OP is trying to do something that isn't retarded.

>>33094322
>Stamped steel?

More than you'll make in 20 years of your life. Tooling and all.

>Prototyping?

One your idea isn't original. I guarantee you that.

Second it wasn't do e for a reason.

Third, the handful of attempts made never saw light for a reason.

Forth, high point, Jericho, derringer has cornered the market. Cheap doesn't work nor play well with durable, functional or fun.

>Cheap blowback plinker?

Not going to happen.

Closest alternative is to CNC something which
>Lol enjoy learning CAD and blowing up your hand if you ever manage to scrounge something together.

You're better off investing the money in school.

>Mechanical engineer in study

>>33099493
A faster cyclic rate since each chamber has time to cool down before being fired. Prevents cook off of cased rounds running hot at 700-1200 rounds per second.
It also allows the potential for caseless rounds for the same problem, cook offs.
Easier to load the rounds straight into a chamber, instead of stripping from a mag and sending the round at some 10-25 degree angle into the chamber. (Look at what happens on a Ruger 10/22)

Deeper magazines can be attached, including those bitching beta c-mags. For hog hunting of packs of 50. Especially when in a helicopter.

>>33099569
>peLeMeme rifle made as a pistol also.
>>>
> Anonymous 02/23/17(Thu)20:59:34 No.33099493▶>>33100448
>>>33098604 (You)
>>PepeLeMeme rifle
>wut...?
>Also this gif, what's the purose of having it being a revolving mag-fed? Seem's redundant.
>>>
> Anonymous 02/23/17(Thu)21:06:36 No.33099569▶
>>>33098604 (You)
>>How about mag fed revolver using pistol rounds?
>Because I think OP is trying to do something that isn't retarded.

It's so retarded to put a model into an expensive computer, with very expensive modeling CAD programs that animate the parts, and make a pretty picture for you.
The guy who made it is now working in the arms industry. Pretty dumb I'd say.

>>33094676
gas delayed blowback my dude

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>>33094322

OP, friendly reminder not to make that gun in 9mm. I'm not trying to be shitty, I wish you the best, but there is nothing that can touch my price point. If someone did I could simply match it until they give up.

>>33095482

What point were you attempting to make?

>>33095751

It's full steam ahead. The amount of behind the scenes action is nothing short of epic. We have celebrity endorsements coming, preordering will be open soon, on and on. Demo video will be out by next month. The interest into the project is intense to say the least.

>>33096965

We have been slid by JDIF/IWI. I showed plently of progress, I'm not showing anymore because we are about to film the demo video. People saying I got butthurt is a meme, I'm totally chill.

>>33097999

The entire point of the project was to make something for the community. If It was about me I wouldn't be pricing it like I am.

>>33098604

Make the PL9 into a pistol at your own risk, legally. I don't know anything about it lol.

>>33099493

The Pepe Liberator 9mm Carbine.

>>33095751
His facebook page is still active.
[FB.com]/pages/PLT/736390326516854

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>>33101232

Thanks man, I don't post links anymore, mods or shills (I'm honestly not sure which, don't want to point fingers) have it out for me at this point.

New company logo, pic related...

>>33101171
>We have celebrity endorsements coming
Oh dear, he's finally lost his mind.

>>33101321

The face of the PL9 will be a female celebrity that everyone on 4chan is familiar with. Screencap this.

>>33100580
And I'm certain that the guy who made that model didn't at all do it just as a proof of concept but genuinely pushed for making a magazine fed revolver!

>>33101171
>>33101171
So what is this?

>>33101448
An individual with advanced, weaponised autism.

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>>33101448

The least expensive semi-automatic centerfire rifle ever produced in modern day history, with a side of may mays.

>>33101642

Daily reminder shills have been present on 4chan for almost a decade.

I made one joke and they targeted me.

>>33101692
>s- stop bully!
>th... the jooz must be behind this!! ;_;
>also gib money plox :DDD *rubbety rub rub*

>>33101713

I'm simply clarifying the situation, it is what it is. It all started when someone who claims to be an employee of IWI got really pissed off after I had made a positive comment about Israel, and a subsequent negative comment about West Coast / Hollywood Jews. He pretty much openly admitted to me that this would happen.

I've actually had Jewish people email me about how they thought the entire thing was ridiculous. Israelis to be specific. The whole thing is childish.

>>33095751
Got B& for soliciting and permab& for trying to circumvent it.

>>33101826
Yeah, see I don't really believe you for a second after seeing some of your meltdowns on here (like the one about a week ago), I think you're simply and quite literally delusional.

>>33101853

I got banned for posting a link to a donations page when someone had asked me to, and I never got banned again. Someone else was responding for me, and mods thought it was me. I never got permabanned, and neither did the other person.

So I don't post links anymore, that's all.

>>33101854

You mean where i was getting pissed about having to deal with teams or 4 or 5 people sliding my threads with the same talking points? Yeah, that can happen. I'm a human bean, Orbin.

>>33101899

*teams of 4 or 5 people

>>33101899
>teams or 4 or 5 people
Let me guess, they were Mossad-trained JIDF too, probably on the payroll of Soros and Feinstein.

Shit like this is why you look delusional. Nobody outside /k/ even gives a shit, certainly not (((da jooz)))

>>33101899
>never got banned again
Really. Cause I remember you showing up less than a week later, being absolutely buttblasted, going on about kikeniggershills (posting OC so it was definitely (You)) before getting your posts nuked.

>>33097959

Lmao, you're fucking stupid.


OP. A Sten build cost me $300. It cost another $250 for the 922r & closed bolt kit.

Sold it for $1200 to some idiot at a gunshow.

>>33102164
OP is a canuck, no 922r

>>33101363
Can we still invest and is it Taylor swift???

>>33102164
>Lmao, you're fucking stupid.
Says the guy that didn't even read what OP's after...

>people actually trusting something called the 'pepe' gun

He's not even being sly in his trolling.

>>33102358
Sadly, he's not trolling.

>>33102271
If only on a date to Applebees

>>33098604
>magazine fed revolver
What in the fuck would that be good for you simpering autist? OP is looking to make a simple and affordable 9mm carbine to sell to people, not reinvent the wheel.

What the hell would a cylinder feeding from a box magazine do that a bolt and box magazine doesn't already do cheaper, better, easier to make, lighter, and more reliable?

>>33101171
>>33101692
Well even if the memerifle gets produced, I doubt it will be seen in Canada, which is the point of OP. In Canada if you want a non-restricted (meaning you can take it innawoods), you're limited to milsurp, fuddguns, and overpriced semi-auto psuedo tactical rifles.

I thought maybe there was a market for a cheap plinker, that people can take innawoods to "run'n'gun' with that used a simple reliable system.

>>33104447
There probably could be, make a blowback tubegun in 9mm or 7.62mm, compatible with a good and common pistol magazine, place it in a non-threatening conventional rifle stock (wood or plastic) along with a cheap synthetic buffer piece in the rear of the receiver. Give it basic protected sights (make the rear one a basic adjustable ghost ring)

You could probably make this kind of gun happen for under 1000CAD once you account for production, tooling up, licensing, etc. Just be dedicated.

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>>33098604
The revolver cannon action is only useful because automatic cannon rounds are nearly as long and as heavy as OP's dildos, and it's not feasible to slam those back and forth at the cyclic rates the air force, or OP wants. Revolver cannons solve this by feeding the rounds into the chamber over the course of two or so cycles, so the cannon can fire ludicrous fast 1000-1700rpm without unsafely manhandling the ammunition.

A pistol round is short and lightweight, so there's no reason not to just give 'em the old banana slamma. lots of machine pistols and SMGs can achieve 1000-1200 rpm without anything special.

>>33106150
You expect an absolute megasperg like him to understand the K.I.S.S principle or to have good judgment?

>>33106150
Honestly I think OP could aim at some action that cycles at like (a theoretical) 400rpm because it's gonna be semi-auto only at any rate.

>>33106150
Even a small round can derive a ROF benefit from a revolver cannon, since a cartridge can be chambered at the same time another is extracted

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>>33106879

I'm not sure how true that is, since the revolver cannon still extracts on the rearward stroke, and feeds on the forward stroke. it is true, though, that ejection does not need to take place before feeding starts.

>>33106954
The whole point is that the feeding and extraction are separate. Think about how long it takes for the cylinder to advance one chamber. Every time that happens, there is ignition.

>>33106879
Yeah, except this project is for a semi auto only closed bolt carbine. There is no point in gaining a marginal increase in effective action at 1200 rpm at the expense of manufacturing cost and maintenance PITA for a gun that will never be made select fire.

>>33107156
I never said OP should build a revolver cannon.

>>33106879
Yeah but what the fuck would that be good for? OP is looking at a civilian market sporter carbine, what the shit good would an obscenely complex mechanism like that do for his design if it's semi-auto only? He'd be looking at a $4000+ gun that does nothing that say, a Ruger PC9 doesn't already do better.

Fuck, it doesn't even make sense on a select-fire weapon because +1500rpm for a weapon that takes box magazines is asinine, you might as well just have a semi-auto shotgun instead

>>33107449
No, but >>33098604 did and we're all trying to figure out the extent of the brain damage anon sustained when his dad used his infant head to crack walnuts with.

>>33101692
As a newfag who got zero Google results, care to tell me more? Any images or specs?

>>33101171
>trying not to be shitty, but don't try me, I'd beat you in whatever you do
>heh, nothing personal kid

Sorry, where is your product? Or tool room prototype? Or proof of concept? Oh, it's just a shitty cad model of a disgusting looking firearm?

Man, you really beat anything OP is even thinking of trying. You're just making a total ass of yourself.

Stop acting like a big shot cool kid. Your daddy wouldn't let you build your tube gun in his garage anyways. Probably would just beat you again with some jumper cables.

>>33101171
>thumbhole stock for no reason

>>33097890
Looks like an open bolt design which is slightly illegal.

>>33097959
Quality differences will be the main cost. You could do most of the operations on a mini-lathe and mini-mill. A 10-ton press can help you with forming/cutting some parts, assuming you have the know-how to mill and finish your own jigs. There's a reason that AK's are hand-fit and AR's are CNC'd.

>>33099826
>Good
>Fast
>Cheap
Pick 2. Realistically, it's doable with some engineering and access to quality materials. Contract out some of the more labor-intense portions, like winding the main action spring. You can also look at reusing existing components--like dropping a stock AR trigger in (mag in front) or using Glock striker-fired components (mag in grip). Actually, going Glock style wouldn't be terrible either--assuming you do something for more consistent ejection. Your biggest issue might be carrier tilt.

>>33110138
>carrier tilt
Have the bolt run on a pair of guide rods and with the springs coiling around it (we're getting into Uzi territory here).
Or stamp the receiver so there is a wedge going inwards on the left side, with a groove in the bolt to allow it to fit here (doesn't need to be machined in a super precise way, just make sure the bolt stays level enough), on the other side is a channel where the charging handle rides.

Making the gun have a pistolgrip where the magazine goes is a pretty sound idea and lets you get a shorter gun, it also vastly simplifies the whole pistol magazine thing.
Here at this point I would seriously advise going for some good and common double-stacked magazine (so in case laws change, people can get hicap sticks for fun). Glock and Beretta are two very solid choices.

>>33112122
>Have the bolt run on a pair of guide rods and with the springs coiling around it (we're getting into Uzi territory here).
Doesn't the AR-18 do that too?

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I guess if the RCMP complains you can give it a thumbhole stock out of wood, similar to some of the old Calico sporters, except a pistol magazine goes in the grip.

Would look slick as fuck actually.

>>33112148
Exactomundo. It's generally a functional way to guide your bolt, and depending on how you design your gun, it can be beneficial.

The stamped receiver on the original AR18 didn't need to be awfully thick or strong since the bolt ran in the guiderods.
Though the rifle was also slightly structurally weak in a few spots so consider carefully how much weight and money you want to save (most of this was on the hinges though).

The Uzi had no structural issues though, and the receivers on the Israeli ones weren't even heat treated, so make of this what you will.

>>33112156
noice

>>33096965
He got banned for solicitation and ban evasion. He should be back to his faggy antics soon.

>>33114665
Ideally he'd also be banned for showing up to every single goddamn gunsmithing thread and shitting/shilling on everything and everyone in it, but that's just a fond dream.