the great debate

>>33083167

Both.

Both, especially if indoor.

If outdoor one or the other is good enough.

>>33083167
a suppressor, get those shitty ass laws repealed in your country

If indoors, both. Outdoors, active muffs

>being a pussy

Both world wars were fought without ear protection. What makes you think you actually need that stupid junk?

>>33083199
STUPID HUNK? HOW DARE YOU INSULT MY MUSCLES.

Both, dipshit.

>>33083227

WHAT ABOUT BRUSSELS

>>33083199
WHAT?!!? WHO TRIED TO STOP THE FUNK?!?

>>33083167
Suppressors, otherwise I typically use both.

>>33083167
Both, you dummy.

>>33083176
>>33083177
>>33083179
>>33083280
>>33083748
>>33083788
really? I always make sure I have something on but I've never worn both or met anyone who said they do

>>33083176
Fpbp, though I'm the only person I've seen do this

>>33083167
Both indoors and plugs outside so you can actually cheekwield, though this is probably bad for your hearing long term. Already have pretty noticeable tinnitus in my right ear so fuck it.

Goddamn I need to get a suppressor.


>>33084199
>>33084185

My parents were big on doubling up when I shot as a kid.


>>33083745
HE SAID THIS THREAD NEEDS ANOTHER BUMP!!

>>33084185
The hearing portection benefits stack, although it's more complicated than just adding the NRRs together, and if you run electronic muffs you can crank up the volume all the way and still hear everything clearly.

Impact sports

How do you wear ear muffs and eye protection at the same time without breaking the seal, compromising your hearing protection?

>>33083294

HAT ABBOT BRUSHES? I'M NOT CATHOLIC AND MONKS CANT WEAR HATS.

>>33083199
JUST BECAUSE I HAVE THE OCCASIONAL DRINK DOESN'T MEAN I'M A STUPID DRUNK!

>>33084185
>I always make sure I have something on but I've never worn both or met anyone who said they do
You only meet fools.
If the seal on your earmuffs gets broken, you go from ~16db reduction to zero in at least one ear.
If you double up, then you achieve ~19 db reduction, and if the seal on your muffs breaks, then you still maintain ~17db reduction.
(note: nrr rating is not the same as real (measured) decibel reduction, and a 3db reduction is half as much energy)

Even if you double up, all guns are still not hearing safe.

>>33083176
fpbp

>>33083176
Thread

>>33084262
HUH? I DONT NEED TO TAKE A DUMP

I really love muffs, but most friends/family that I took shooting with me prefered plugs.

>>33084640
also wear ear plugs.

>>33085058
right
but eye protections has to be snug behind your ears
ear muffs go over your ears
won't the eye protection create a break in the seal?

>>33083167
As a guy who played a lot of gigs without earpro from high school to college, losing you're hearing sucks. I used to think people were gay if they wore ear plugs or even headphones while preforming live. One of my bands, our drummer used to wear muffs and I thought it was gay. Didn't know what tinnitus was until I went to a doc at 23 complaint about random periods of deafness and ringing. Ended up getting hearing aids at 25, I just tell people I was born with some defect. Everytime I went shooting I only used plugs and I'm sure that didn't help either, even indoors I used plugs.

TL;DR double up on earpro and don't go deaf at 25 like me

>>33084970
If my hearing reduction is zero, you can tell real fucking quick and adjust
and even if you double up and most guns still aren't hearing safe why would you do it all? and how are people that have shot their entire lives still able to hear well enough?

Ear plugs, cheek welds are important.

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>>33085082
>won't the eye protection create a break in the seal?
Look at this picture

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>>33085203
>cheek welds are important
It's really not.

>>33084946
>>33083227
>>33083199
JUST BECAUSE I TAKE IT IN THE ASS DOESN'T MAKE ME A PUNK

>>33085312
Kek

>>33085234
I see, so they'll probably just cover it without compromising the hearing protection
dude needs some gold bond though, just sayin

I don't have tinnitus and really haven't been around loud shit much without ear pro, but for many years now I'll have this thing where my left ear goes totally deaf and I get a loud ringing in it. It persists for like 30 seconds, max, and then my hearing goes back to normal in both ears. It doesn't seem triggered by anything in particular, and it doesn't hurt or anything.

Any of you guys know what I'm talking about or have a similar thing happen?

>>33085580
>I don't have tinnitus but for many years now I've had tinnitus

>>33085580
>I'm not retarded, but for many years now I've said a lot of retarded shit

>>33083176
Foxtrot papa bravo papa

>>33085619
it's not persistent like tinnitus is. It starts and then goes away on its own.

>>33086121
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinnitus
>Tinnitus can be perceived in one or both ears or in the head.
>Tinnitus is the description of a noise inside a person’s head in the absence of auditory stimulation.
>Tinnitus can be intermittent or it can be continuous: in the latter case, it can be the cause of great distress.

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

I use disposable foam plugs because I can't get a cheekweld with muffs, and "re-usable" plugs are always too small for my rightmost ear canal.

>>33083176
This

Especially when shooting an 18" Nugget

>>33083167
Plugs probably work better if you can put them in right, but I went shooting on New Years and it was around freezing out and they didn't want to expand, and I'm sure I damaged my hearing from all the shotgunning we did that day.
I've since bought muffs that give me the same "I can hear the fluid in my head" feeling that I consider to be the sign of good ear pro and I don't regret it. Electronic, can play music while I'm shooting, and far more consistent than plugs.

>>33083176
/thread

>>33083199
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>33085234
>tfw my hands are peeling like that

>>33085175
>most guns
Not what he said.
I don't know exactly where the cutoff is, but I wouldn't be surprised if .50 BMG was loud enough to go through two sets of protection.
MAC recently had an AR with like a 3" barrel on his show that measured like 171 dB, which means that no matter what you do it's still going to hurt and most likely damage your ears.

>>33086285
>I forgot to take my name off from earlier shenanigans

How are Walker's Razors? Would doubling up with them be fine for a Mosin?
The only rifle that isn't a .22 I've ever shot was a few rounds out of a .223.

>>33083167
Muffs. I've always had trouble getting plugs to stay put during extended range trips.

>>33086285
he specifically said
>Even if you double up, all guns are still not hearing safe.
I call bullshit on that, because .22lr are hardly anything with earpro on
>>33086303
happens to the best of us

>>33086393
I read that as a rather weird way of saying that while some are, there are still some guns that aren't hearing safe.

I always use both at the range. There's no reason you can't wear a buttplug and earmuffs together.

>>33083167
After one range trip where an ear plug kept slipping out of my ear, I've always used muffs.

>>33085082
Who wears eye protection?

>>33086412
oh, so you read it as, even doubled up, it can't protect you from everything
I read it as, even doubled up, you aren't protected from anything
your interpretation is correct, like you said with the guy on MAC who had a 5.56 AR pistol, I assume .50 BMG would suck cock too

Had I worn muffs the first time I shot my shotgun, those fuckers would probably have flown off, but it was pretty loud with plugs, havent noticed any hearing damage

>>33085580
Sorry about your tinnitus.

>>33084185

I wear eyepro which breaks the seal on my muffs so I double up.

Also indoor range.

>>33083167
I used to use plugs only because it works better than muffs and is smaller, but after getting the EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEs one time on a 50 man magdump, I double up every time with Howard Leight electronics

You can hear pretty much everything just fine

>>33086615
http://www.smithoptics.com/us/Root/Men's/Sunglasses/Elite-Tactical/Aegis-Echo-II/p/AECHABK15-2R
Get you some Smiths, they're the best.

Do you guys always wear ear pro while hunting? I only wear plugs while target shooting.

>>33086650
>what is electronic earpro

>>33083176
This does nothing.

>>33084285
No, ear muffs and plugs don't stack. Doubling up actually gives almost no extra benefit.

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>>33086730

>>33086730
How?

>>33086730
>additional insulation does not stack

Proofs

>>33086650
I usually don't, when I hunt I'm not firing my gun as frequently as when I shoot at the range

>>33086730
Problem is that muffs can slide off sometimes, especially when you are moving a lot. Having plugs to protect you for a couple rounds until you can fix your muffs is a good idea.

I just use custom form-fit plugs for trap shooting and they don't fall out and reduce noise to an acceptable level. They are hella comfortable. I forget I'm wearing them when I walk away until I can't hear people talking to me.

Those and cheapo Winchester muffs for pistol shooting.

>>33084199
>Why don't I ever see people wearing earplugs under their earmuffs?

I want you to really think this one through

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>>33085234
Not if you wear the correct eye pro
Pox related

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>>33086730

>>33086730
They do... it's just diminishing returns because decibels are measured on a logarithmic scale. They still do give extra benefit.

>>33086459
Sun is bright

>>33086767

http://www.audiologyonline.com/articles/extra-protection-wearing-earmuffs-and-1218

>at 1000 Hz the combination of a 26-dB plug and a 34-dB muff does not yield 60-dB overall, but rather about 41 dB. The principal reason is the bone-conduction (BC) limits to attenuation.

It does nothing.

if clay target shooting i only use plugs, but will use either for rifle. I still usually use my plugs I molded from a cheap Sportsman's kit, just because they more comfortable personally

>>33083178

im actually starting to get tired of the pro-suppressor posters on here. you're preaching to the fucking choir.

>>33083167
Looks like a metrosexual princess Leia.

>>33086986
Its a logarithmic scale so a few decibels is a very significant difference in the volume.

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>>33086986
are you retarded? how can you say it does nothing when it increases sound reduction to 41db from either 26 or 34?

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>>33086986
41 is more than 26, and more than 34. so yes, it does do something. quite a lot actually

indoors I use electronic muffs. though I only shoot pistols indoors.

outdoors I shoot mostly rifles and I use plugs to not mess with cheek weld.

had to shoot M16 qualfications indoors while in japan. they made us wear plugs and muffs. the muffs provided were huge and made everyone have to change their zero.which had to be changed again when we shot outdoors at camp fuji. I put Howard Leight Impact Sport muffs under my ACH. they don't mess with my cheek weld.

>>33086902
kekpill

Plugs are fine as long as they aren't worn out. I've had tinnitus all my life so I don't have to worry about that.

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>>33086986
That is not nothing. Remember that dB is a log scale meaning for every 1 dB increase it is actually a 10x increase. A 7 dB increase is roughly 1.5 times louder.

https://www.gcaudio.com/tips-tricks/the-relationship-of-voltage-loudness-power-and-decibels/

>>33086986
>a seven-decibel reduction over muffs alone is literally nothing
oh_no_it_s_retarded.png

>>33086650
I wear eye- and ear-pro any time that I premeditatedly discharge a firearm.

>>33085580
>EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE--

>EEEEEEEE

>>33083167
Ear protection recommended for shooting indoors

>ear plugs in ears
>ear muffs over ears
>ear muffs stuffed with cotton balls

>>33087155

A 3dB increase is roughly double. So a 6dB increase is literally four times as loud. So a 7 dB increase isn't 1.5 times it's more than 4 times as loud.

For instance an increase from 10-20 is ten times as loud. And increase from 10-30 is literally 100 times as loud. 10-40 is 1000 times as loud. That's how a logarithmic scale works.

>>33086158
Not the guy who originally asked, but I have a similar problem that isn't tinnitus. It's not in the absence of sound, on the contrary it often occurs during a long period of sound, like while I'm listening to music. To be clear, I don't listen to music at high volume, I don't have any hearing loss, and I'm always careful about ear pro.
What happens is I will hear a slight pop and then all hearing in one ear will sound like I'm under water. It will slowly come back to normal and for like ten minutes there's a slight ringing.

>>33083167
For range use, plugs, obviously. You don't want to compromise your hearing accidentally if you really bear down onto the stock and lift the earpro slightly.

For innawoods, muffs, obviously, because why WOULDN'T you take superhuman hearing for the cost of 60-350 USD?

>>33090141
can you get electronic earpro that actually magnify quiet sounds?
that would be sick

>>33083167
Muffs

Ive been sleeping with the fan on full speed every night for the past 10 years

kill me

>>33090615
YES YOU CAN FAMALAM. YOU CAN HAVE THE SUPER EARS.

>>33086986
>26-dB plug
>34-dB muff

What kind of shitty ear plugs are rated for less than 32 NRR?

>>33084640
I wear goggles. The elastic strap isn't thick enough to break the seal and it's a full seal around the eyes.

>>33091418
Tinnitus? This might help.

Place the palms of your hands over your ears with fingers resting gently on the back of your head. Your middle fingers should point toward one another just above the base of your skull. Place your index fingers on top of you middle fingers and snap them (the index fingers) onto the skull making a loud, drumming noise. Repeat 40-50 times. Some people experience immediate relief with this method. Repeat several times a day for as long as necessary to reduce tinnitus.Dr. Jan Strydom, of A2Z of Health, Beauty and Fintess.org.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yDCox-qKbk

>>33086204
What about your second from rightmost?

>>33086459
I do.

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>>33086730
>No, ear muffs and plugs don't stack. Doubling up actually gives almost no extra benefit.
Wow, as someone who does industrial noise control work I have to call a lot of my clients now. Thank god I get such good information from the internet.

>>33090615
>can you get electronic earpro that actually magnify quiet sounds?
Yes, it's not as good as you think. They increase what you hear and limit the dB from the louder sources to protect your hearing. You end up with a lot more noise and less focus on what you might want to hear. You can filter it down somewhat but you have to know which octave or 1/3 octave bands to boost or filter at any given instance and you have to take the plugs out to tune/program them. All for the low low price of $1000 for a decent fitted programmable pair.
Walker in ear plugs will give you the old style hearing aide experience for cheap to try out, but they don't provide much if anything to tune them.

>>33085175
>If my hearing reduction is zero, you can tell real fucking quick and adjust
And if you are not alone?

>and even if you double up and most guns still aren't hearing safe why would you do it all?
Because it's beneficial to your hearing.

>and how are people that have shot their entire lives still able to hear well enough?
Because handheld firearms typically don't permanently deafen you if you don't put your ear next to the end of the barrel.
Just because hearing damage isn't literal deafness, doesn't mean that you shouldn't avoid it.


>tl;dr / Why bother?
Just because rubbing sand into your eyes doesn't make you completely blind, doesn't mean it isn't stupid to do so or let it happen.

>>33093519
>$1000 for a decent fitted programmable pair
Not actually that much in the grand scheme of things, considering how expensive this hobby is anyway.

>>33093446
>someone who does industrial noise control work
Tell us about your job.

>>33093446
seconding >>33098931 sounds interesting af

>>33093446
>>33098931
>>33100322
Yeah, what's your day to day workload?

>>33093446
Thirded. Story time?

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>>33083176
Already got tinnitus from blowing up a firecracker in my hands as a kid, use both. Always recommend using both to people who come with to the range.

>>33083167
Both obviously but if you want one or the other, muffs won't irritate the ear canal or push wax deeper into the ear.

Wax naturally migrates outwards carrying dust, dead skin cells etc. Ear plugs can push it in a bit and it then builds up and you have to flush it out with a syringe. Easier to just not have the problem by wearing muffs.

>>33086730
>No, ear muffs and plugs don't stack
Is that because they're both item bonuses and each only gives a +1 item bonus to hearing protection and bonuses only stack with different kinds of bonuses?

>>33083176
ye even engine room workers do this

>>33083176

this m8

>>33085580
Get your ears cleaned out with water and don't stick q-tips into your ear canal anymore.

>>33100431
It's because they use the same equipment slot and you have to use a glitch to have both equipped at once, and the game only recognizes the bonus from whichever one is closer to the top of your inventory.

>>33083199
WHO EATS CUPID'S SPUNK?

>>33083167
I prefer muffs but plugs are fine too.

Outdoor pistol I like electronic muffs. Indoor or with a rifle I use both.

>>33083199
>Both world wars were fought without ear protection
Were they, though?

>>33086730
Bullfuckingshit.
When I double up I can hear the sounds of my own footsteps from within my own body. It is the strangest and most oddly satisfying shit.

>>33083199
WHAT DID YOU SAY?

>>33083167
I find earplugs enough when shooting outdoors, but indoors I definitely prefer earmuffs.

So how much sound gets transferred through the skull? Should I wear a turban?

>>33102754
Pretty much

>>33102860
If you happen to own a $600 skateboard helmet, it would certainly help block a few decibels.

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>>33083167
9mm earplug master race

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>>33102911

>>33083199
WHAT?

>>33086999
Trips have spoken.

>>33102930
>atf hat
checks out

>>33102806
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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>>33083167
You don't need ear protection if you make yourself go deaf

>>33083199
NOT USING THEM MAKES ME HURL CHUNKS.

>>33085580

Thats completely normal and can happen to people with and without constant tinnitus, it's called fleeting tinnitus where your hearing goes out for a few moments with a loud right then comes back, like tinnitus the cause is unknown but the current thought is your brain is adjusting your hearing/retuning briefly.

You also hear through your skull and jawbone.

>>33083199
Yeah man, my grandpa told me my generation is a bunch of faggots. He didn't need earpro at NormandEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Muffs. Hands down. It's always good to have some ear plugs in your backpack, though.

>>33083199
You're a retard, dude. The vast majority of the men and women who fought in those wars came home with permanent hearing impairments.