Friendly reminder a 12 gauge shotgun is the most utilitarian

>>33017747
While I agree, the ammunition is ungodly big for its ballistic effect.

>large thick ammunition
>heavy ammo
>limited capacity for gun
>limited human capacity
>very limited range

yeah no

>>33017777
Hunt everything from rodents to durr with it. If I had to choose one gun to live with for the rest of my life it would be a 12 gauge pump action. If you don't hunt then I guess you would disagree.

>>33017777
a 5.56 can do a shotguns job better
a 7.62 platform can do an even better job then 5.56

7.62 platforms is Superior in every way

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I agree with op if you change 12 to 20 gauge.

20 gauge solves the recoil and large ammo problem, while still being very utilitarian.

>>33017777
slugs extend a shotgun's range to over 200 yards and it's stopping power is far greater

>>33017747
It wouldn't be bad, but a .22 and a 9mm would weigh about as much and let you carry more ammo. hell or replace the .22 with a .410/.22 over under and carry some slugs. I don't think there

>>33017799
7.62 is not suitable for hunting small game.
It will take a few shots to keep a bear from going your way, unless you hit it in the head first time, and a 7.62 is longer then a shotgun shell

>>33017815
it's true you can carry more ammo but you'd have to drop like 10 rounds in a bear to get it dead and buck won't die immediately with a 9mm or a 22lr unless you hit it through the eyes or some soft spot in the skull, while a slug is a definite kill.

>>33017849
thickness is more worry-some than length

>>33017866
I would go to great lengths to not be in the bear scenario, but valid point there. Though I wouldn't think deer would be the best game in a survival situation, wouldn't small animals be more plentiful and efficient? also if you opted for .410/.22 over under a .410 slug could maybe put down a deer?

AB OOB BOO BI BAA BOO AB HAM :DDDD GOD BLESSS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVRTmavVifw

>>33017799
>a 5.56 can do a shotguns job better

This explains everyone hunting birds with ARs then.

You need a double barreled shotgun with the top barrel being 20 gauge and the below barrel being 12 gauge

>>33017882
Fag

>>33017798
As long as you can take a spectrum of loads and shot sizes I agree. Good luck duck hunting with a too too three. Or any other small game for that matter.

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>>33017747
>>large thick ammunition
Better for prostate stimulation.

>>heavy ammo
Man up, faggot.

>limited capacity for gun
6 shells of 2.75" buckshot has 54 projectiles.

>limited human capacity
Ok, point. Shotguns DO have a limited capacity to be humans.

>very limited range
100 yards is easy with slugs.

>t. ex-cop tactical shotgun instructor

>>33017747

I'd rather have a battle rifle.

>>33017938
i really want one of those now.

>>33017807
>200 yards
naw

>>33018141
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNTyCcip-ks

>>33018181
im gonna show him a video of a man with a lifetimes worth of experience shooting!

>>33018141
yea buddy, you better believe it.

i can hit a man size silhouette at 150 yards with a sabot time after time. havent done 200 yards personally because my outdoor state run free range is only 150, but with the violence of impact and accuracy some of the hornady sabots ive fired, i would say its an extremely safe bet 200 yards it easy. granted i also have rifle sights on my shotgun with wind and elevation adjustment and not a bead sight.

would i recommend only carrying a shotgun for shtf? nope. maybe for shtf fort protection, or if you have a group one guy carry a shotgun for animals and room clearing, but just generally no.

>cant carry as much as rifle ammo
>takes up a lot of space
>specific loads for specific tasks
>low amount of ammo in tube
>heavy
>repair parts will be harder to find


i would recommend an ar-15 only because the ammo is everywhere, everyone has one, almost all of them interchange parts, and they all generally operate the same way.
that being said this is only pertinent in a LONG term survival situation.

now if russia or something like that attacked, id have my ak because the skies would be raining ruski surplus.

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>Buy 12 gauge
>Go to sleep knowing that my NAP will not be violated.

>>33018219
the argument was that it couldn't be done, not that you personally lacked the skill lmfao

>shoot more pleb

>>33017747
too bad a basic ballistic vest can stop it dead in its tracks

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>Hear bump in night
>Grab 590
>Go to garage
>Rabies garbage nigger rummaging threw the bins
>Shoot thinking I still had bird in from hunting earlier
>No, was slugs
>3" Bear Sabots specifically
>Fall the fuck down cause I underslung it like a dumb nigger
>Red smear, blown apart bin
>Raccoon on the ceiling

I have no stake in the argument but just wanted to share.

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>>33017747
I do agree fully but >>33017767 has a big fat point.

A box of 25 rounds of 12 Ga. can be filled by over 200 9mm rounds.

But no other gun can range from a cloud of 1 mm pellets to one big 18mm slug

>>33017747

Utilitarian yes, and if you're going to bug in or live out of a vehicle and can only afford one gun, or you're going to stash the gun with supplies, yes it's great. Pump actions are simple, functional guns that can take both small game and protect you from any animal in North America.

If you have to bug out on foot the ammunition is simply too heavy and bulky for living out of a backpack. You can carry around 200 rounds of .308, 300 rounds of 7.62x39 or 400 rounds of .223 for the weight of 100 rds. of 12ga. You can carry well over 1000rds of .22lr for the same.

If you're just looking to cover your bases, you'd be far better off with a .308 rifle and .22 cal handgun than with a shotgun, for the weight.

Reality is that you don't have to pick just one gun, and 200 rds. of .308 and 1000 rds. of .22lr, and rifle and a handgun to fire them will take you far further than a shotgun with 100rds. of buckshot, 50 rds. of slugs and 50 rds. of birdshot (or any combination thereof).

>>33017958
>implying people wouldn't hunt birds with ARs if it was legal to shoot them on the ground/water

>>33017990
kB waiting to happen

>>33018321
I agree with you on all points, except I would reverse the sizings of handgun to rifle

Handguns aren't terribly practical at long distances and so would likely only be used to defend oneself.
For this reason I'd prefer a hefty calibred handgun and a .22 rifle, seeing as I will only use the rifle for hunting anyways I can carry much more ammo for it.

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Utilitarian: designed to be useful or practical rather than attractive.

I believe that the proper word for it would be "Versatile". It is useful for many jobs, but it is not necessarily the most practical for all those jobs.


relax everybody, OP just used the wrong word.

>>33017807
Even then, I'd still go with the 12 gauge due to the likelihood of finding ammo for it, granted the 20 is far better if your only shooting your own ammo, or only using slugs.

>>33018455
good fucking luck hitting a pigeon with an AR. Granted, I'm not an expert marksman or anything but it's tricky enough using a shotgun.

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>>33017747
Ohh now you've triggered every autist and snowflake round fetishist in this board. You're right though.

>>33017747
>utilitarian
Stop using words that you don't understand

>>33019875

It depends upon what the terrain looks like. Shotguns are useful for hunting birds on flat ground with a lot of vegetation, but there are also plenty of people that just shoot birds out of trees with just about anything from an air rifle upwards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0x1JrM0i08
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUPcs2zHTRk

>>33019397
>designed to be useful or practical rather than attractive
The word you're looking for is "practical".

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>>33020289
im not saying its not practical. some of the jobs that have been listed, there are much more practical options. on the other hand, shotguns are more practical for some other jobs.

i see shotguns as a jack of trades type of gun. and even then, there are specialty shotguns for jobs that just a 500 or 870 wouldnt be as practical for.

versatile: able to adapt or be adapted to many different functions or activities

>>33018228
>>repair parts will be harder to find
>i would recommend an ar-15 only because the ammo is everywhere, everyone has one, almost all of them interchange parts, and they all generally operate the same way.

Do you really think Mossberg or Remington parts will ever be hard to find? Or that "everyone has one" doesn't apply to 12 gauge shotguns even more than it does to ARs? That 12 gauge shotgun shells aren't "everywhere"? That pump-action shotguns don't "generally all operate the same way"?

>>33018263
I guarantee that anyone wearing a ballistic vest is going to take getting hit by .223 way easier than getting hit with 00 buck or a rifled slug.

>>33021275
A box of 5.56 will have more rounds than a similarly sized box of 12 gauge. There's also far more ARs than mosbergs and Remington's. Unlike your mythical/universal 12 gauge shotgun, most ARs can interchange parts with ease.

Are there any shotgun like rounds you can fire from a battle rifle?

>>33021975
>can you fire buck from a battle rifle
No. Quite aside from anything and everything else you'd never hit anything even if the ammunition actually left the barrel, which it would not. Rifling plays real fuckin havoc with that.

>>33021975
If you're talking like something equivalent to 00buck or BB shot, no. At least nothing that won't fuck your gun up.

If you are looking for "slugs with better ballistics," try something like 50 beowulf out of an ar

>tfw too much recoil

is a .410 a good substitute ?

>>33018028

You can easily hunt ducks with 223. Just shoot them on the water or when they're walking around.

>>33023155
no

>>33017747
>if you had to bug out there's no better firearm option out there
I couldnt think of a worse option

>bulky shells
>heavy firearm
>limited capacity
Maybe if bug out means build a cabin in the woods and live forever, sure.

>>33023215
Wait your not supposed to be bugging out to some place you safe?

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How about something like this? The best bugout option IMO

>>33023243
>carrying 3 barrels
no.

Best option is 22 takedown and a 308/30-06 rifle

>>33023155
omg you pussy

>>33023270

Yeah, weight is an issue. I like using mine nevertheless.

For optimal versatility I'd take an O/U combination gun such as a .308/12ga or .223/20ga, but I definitely wouldn't feel under-gunned with a simple 12ga innawoods unless the risk of firefights is significant. In that case a modern sporting rifle would be far better.

>>33023355

Sorry but words are defined by usage. What you meant to say was assault rifle, and there's nothing wrong with that. When you try to play pedantic games it makes it look like us gun advocates are hiding something. We've got nothing to hide and nothing to be ashamed of.

>>33023450
But he probably has no way of getting an assault rifle and meant a semi auto rifle.

>>33023488

Nice try but like I said words are defined by popular usage, not by pedants and grammar nazis. It's like if you said "I'm a horehound." Nobody will think you're a piece of stick candy, they'll think you're crazy for hookers. If you want to learn what "assault rifle" actually means in modern parlance look at the definition in 1994 assault weapons ban for an assault weapon. A rifle that meets that definition is an assault rifle you sperg

>>33023540
If it is not full auto or burst fire it is not an assault rifle and according to my DS a assault weapon is a recoilless rifle with an HE shell.

>>33023540
Thanks for the correcting the record on the Clinton gun ban

>>33023565

Your drill sergeant is a pedant who has less authority than a mall cop in the civilian world.

>>33023573
And Ex laws have even less in the free world.

>>33023580

That's true but as an example of the popular meaning of the term it is still accurate. Given that words are defined by popular usage, the popular meaning is the only real meaning.

Still can't put one I your pocket.

>>33023584
But if it is not in use by those that use them then the only meaning that matters is not the popular one. Because you will find more adds for Semi auto rifle/pistol that will be closer to what you are looking for than you will with salty weapon unless you want a tech 9 that has a this a a real 90s assault gat/ghetto blaster for the add.

>>33023540
>Accepting definitions created by retards. Or redefinitions as it were.

That's when it all starts going bad.

Let's stick to definitions that actually mean something

>>33023603

Oh yeah? Punch "buy assault rifle" into google and see what comes up. It's not select-fire rifles, it's page after page of ar-15s and ak-47s in every online gun store.

>>33017747
Depends on the location but I'd generally prefer a .223 or even a .22lr to a shotgun

If you're even semi competent then they will put all the food you need on the table. A .22 is still lethal as fuck and far more quiet than a shotgun which could be a big deal depending on the situation

>>33023615

You aren't going to reliably kill deer at 100 yards with a .22LR.

>>33023617
You wont with a 12ga either once you start running out of slugs. And considering that in order for a 12ga to be a good all round weapon you need a mix of ammo types how many slugs are you going to be carrying?

Also a headshot from a 22 at 100yards would have a reasonable success rate I'd say. Sure not 100% but you wouldn't starve

>>33023613
Why don't you stick to the quoted laws assault weapon, also thats Google all adds I saw said semi auto rifle in the add and not assault.

>>33023634
Waxed slugs or cut shells will work for deer and either can be made from bird shot.

>>33017798
>If you don't hunt then I guess you would disagree.
I hunt, and I'd take my .308 bolt rifle over a shotgun if I were to bug out and/or hunt and could only take one gun with me, based solely on how the terrain is here (wide open coast). Reasoning being
>ammo is lighter and available in greater quantities here, reloading components too
>better range
>good to take down large game at greater ranges than a shotgun
>neater holes in the event you want to use the skins
>FMJ is perfectly fine for taking birds
One might argue that rifle ammo is cheaper, but it's only helping to offset the cost of what I've spent on the rifle itself, and then there's the scope too.
Then again, I can see why you might want to bring a shotgun if there's dangerous animals about, or if you're hunting in the woods at shorter ranges, but that just isn't the case for me.

>>33021303
what the fuck? 3a stops buckshot with no penetration
explain your reasoning